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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation |OT10| - We aim to transition those from OT9 at a pace never seen before. [SEE THREADMARKS FOR CHANCE AT GLORY]
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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I think the git hub leak represents data from legitimate testing of backwards compatibility mode however my opinion is the 2Ghz clock represents the "worst case" boost clock of the backwards compatibility modes just as PS4 Pro has the boost mode for non-pro patched games. It's extremely unlikely final clocks would have been determined when those documents were generated since a proper PS5 prototype would have been about some months out still. I would sooner believe PS5 is sub 8TF than believe it runs at 2GHZ clocks sustained. Have any github PS5 9.2 TF believers even looked into Radeon RX 5700 overclocking? It is hard enough doing 2Ghz with a well binned 5700 dGPU chip on an AIB card with good cooling solution; and ya'll think this is possible with an APU? I could believe it if it was made on 5nm process but we all know it will not be. The whole picture is not clear and some are willingly ignoring it to push a narrative that won't even matter at the end of the day.
Ah Forbes what a interesting siteNews in 2020 in a nutshell
My Google news feed is full of articles like these.News in 2020 in a nutshell
It's likely because the pillar franchises within MS are there to appease existing owners. Not entice new ones. And that's fine but it limits growth. Gears, Halo, Forza. They're known quantities. Suffering under sequelitis. And we know for a fact the likes of 343, The Coalition and Turn10 are going to be stuck making more of the same next gen too...which leaves MS's recent acquisitions to be the big draw. And while I think Ninja Theory are narratively inventive devs with great technical ability. Their games, by and large...aren't actually very good, they're middling action games at best. Then there is Obsidian who generally make jank with nice stories. And the other studios have either produced mediocre games (We Happy Few) or produced incredibly niche ones (Inxile/Doublefine)
Now, not to say it's out of the realms of possibility that Inxile or Compulsion or Doublefine might be making MS's next big AAA mainstream titles...but nothing indicated they are or that they are even capable. And so we might just get an exclusive Wasteland 4 and Brutal Legend sequel on Xbox next gen instead and it'll attract the 7 people out there who care...
I know this is an incredibly cynical take. But in my mind MS bought a bunch of cheap studios to pad things out with the exception of Playground who were practically first party anyway...now if they'd have bought some bigger name studios like Remedy, or IO interactive, or Kojima productions etc. Then I'd maybe share the faith others seem to have regarding next gen and MS offering new and high quality exclusives.
Proof is in the pudding for me though right now. No more excuses. MS need to bring their A game with new IP's asap.
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Gotta capture both sides of the audience.....News in 2020 in a nutshell
It is also likely that some of leakers that said the systems are close, don't really understand the technology very well or don't have this type of information.
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And about that "big change" redesign that you are suggesting. No. Just no. That just not how this thing is. Sony and MS are dealing with a vendor that has done the work for them. That's what people seem to be forgetting. The APU that's going into the PS5/SeX consists of a CPU and GPU that would have already had years and billions of R&D done by AMD. These chips are not tailor-made for sny/MS but more like tailor coupled together for them.
I don't know how to say this without typing too much.... so I wll try and be brief. If sony is working with an APU from AMD, and then sony wants AMD to change the GPU in it, and by change I mean sony is saying ok, take out the 5700 (40CU) GPU and put in a 5800 (56CU) GPU. Leave everything else the same. I have no doubt in my mind that such a change is a lot easier to do than most here are suggesting.
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First of all, don't take this the wrong way, because I still think that Oberon testing was probably just a BC test with some of the die disabled (so maybe a 54 CU unit), but your last paragraph is just not correct. Even though AMD has created these products, the APUs that Sony and Microsoft are having made are not modular drop in designs. Their chips are designed from the ground up. There is a ton of work that goes into designing a chip, then creating a die, then making small runs to do testing and validation, making small revisions, and then with final product designing the rest of the parts of the console and getting fab times scheduled, etc....But major changes in terms of anything that adds CPU or GPU cores is basically a "start all over again" kind of process. Albert Penello talked about this in the thread just a couple days ago when he was asked this question:
I think several other people have talked on this point as well, but I cannot find those posts right now. Basically there is no way that Sony could just throw it together in six months. Anything that makes the chip larger in die size is going to be a massive re-design.
And about that "big change" redesign that you are suggesting. No. Just no. That just not how this thing is. Sony and MS are dealing with a vendor that has done the work for them. That's what people seem to be forgetting. The APU that's going into the PS5/SeX consists of a CPU and GPU that would have already had years and billions of R&D done by AMD. These chips are not tailor-made for sny/MS but more like tailor coupled together for them.
I don't know how to say this without typing too much.... so I wll try and be brief. If sony is working with an APU from AMD, and then sony wants AMD to change the GPU in it, and by change I mean sony is saying ok, take out the 5700 (40CU) GPU and put in a 5800 (56CU) GPU. Leave everything else the same. I have no doubt in my mind that such a change is a lot easier to do than most here are suggesting.
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First of all, don't take this the wrong way, because I still think that Oberon testing was probably just a BC test with some of the die disabled (so maybe a 54 CU unit), but your last paragraph is just not correct. Even though AMD has created these products, the APUs that Sony and Microsoft are having made are not modular drop in designs. Their chips are designed from the ground up. There is a ton of work that goes into designing a chip, then creating a die, then making small runs to do testing and validation, making small revisions, and then with final product designing the rest of the parts of the console and getting fab times scheduled, etc....But major changes in terms of anything that adds CPU or GPU cores is basically a "start all over again" kind of process. Albert Penello talked about this in the thread just a couple days ago when he was asked this question:
I think several other people have talked on this point as well, but I cannot find those posts right now. Basically there is no way that Sony could just throw it together in six months. Anything that makes the chip larger in die size is going to be a massive re-design.
I follow up on #teamFeb and double dip on #team14ButCouldBeInThe13
If they are to be priced the same, then XSX may have a chance.
They were locked into their design by that point. Timings and clock speed are the only things you can change at that point on an APU.
I think google picked up on me coming here daily because i get a ton of stupid articles about the ps5 : "everything you need to know', "what it's going to look like" etc...
Not saying it would be easy or even possible otherwise, but I think that when you are commited to ship all consoles with the Kinnect bundled, there simply isn't much to do: your margins are already slim. Let's say they could change the GPU, but then need to sell at 599...
I also think you are leaving out a possibility that this was a BC test of Oberon with some cores disabled. Just like it is missing RT, and yet we know it has RT, it is very possible that they put a 54 CU unit in the PS5 and that when it runs in BC mode 18 CUs are disabled. If this were a test focused on BC then it also would not mention anything about RT, since original hardware has no RT.
Whatever game any developer is undertaking is limited by money and time. So mainly money. A lot forget that Guerrilla Games was some small studio that could not get a quality game out. What changed?
Ninja Theory was already a class studio, they showed that they could get it done with Enslaved and DmC. And they then got a game with limited staff and limited funds done and it was a really good showing.
Obsidian and jank? This will always be an issue with time. Microsoft helped them polish out The Outer Worlds, and it is one of the better games that came out last year.
Not every studio that was bought is going to do third party games, and to be honest, I have doubts on some of them. That said, Xbox will be fine when it comes to content.
I agree.
There were rumours of more studios aquisitions in Poland or Japan, will keep an eye on it and see what comes out of it.
The Initiative looks promising though, and curious as to what Playground can achieve out of Forza Horizon.
As for the other studios... time will tell. Ninja Theory can make some great games, I loved DmC and Senua was great with the budget they made it in
What if Oberron is for a Sony laptop that supports PS4 games / focused on PS Now, reaching into the PC market that way? Not very likely though, even with HZD coming to PC.
I personally hope it's wired. Rather they focus on as low as possible latency and other tech than wireless. But I also get that wireless would reach to a bigger audience.
Hellblade was really good and that's because they focused on their strenght, but yeah, overall they're not very good at making action games. They've been very mediocre at it.
I don't think Sony would have hit the "oh shit" button 6 months ago. If there's a redesign, it was always intended/in the works way before that. Github tests could have just been additional useful data for both Sony and AMD.
Yeah, that's a lot of revisions for something you don't plan to use....
399.
8+tflops at 1.7/8GHZ 40 CU with 4 disabled for yields leaving 36
16gb gddr6 512GB/s
Zen 2 8c16t at 3.0 GHZ
Sounds realistic. Dont think they redesigned the chip in any major fashion.
8+tflops at 1.7/8GHZ 40 CU with 4 disabled for yields leaving 36
16gb gddr6 512GB/s
Zen 2 8c16t at 3.0 GHZ
Sounds realistic. Dont think they redesigned the chip in any major fashion.
I don't fully disagree but I'm going to push back a bit to see how this goes..
AMDs line of pc GPUs will have various combinations of CUs etc. Some may be binned versions of others, but some will be physically different. Are they all ground up redesigns? Surely there are some architecture choices that allow them to at least be somewhat modular in approach to building - if you've designed a WGP then adding another one shouldn't be as much work as the original design. And they have ranges of GPUs where the primary difference is number of CUs so I'd expect that specific element to be fairly flexible in design
so although I agree the GitHub thing isn't telling the full picture, I would be curious to understand just how late you could theoretically add CUs to an existing building block to a design that may be architected to be relatively scalable
Well I mean Heavenly Sword, Enslaved, Disney Infinity or whatever were pretty shite. DmC was mid, Hellblade was good for the most part. That's not a sterling record.
I agree with this. Microsoft Studios should be hitting their stride late 2021 and all through 2022, assuming not everything the different studios are working on gets delayed :)
I'm actually really excited to have three big gaming companies with killer first party titles. We are really fortunate that the game market has grown enough that it can support this kind of competition!
yes, but the topic was Microsoft's chances to beat Sony in selling more consoles, so popularity was the focus
btw I'm not a fan of Hellblade or DS, but I get that was not the point
maybe I'm not remembering something great that they made? but heavenly sword, enslaved, dmc and hellblade were pretty mediocre mechanically, They were just wrapped in pretty visuals and/or interesting story. I mean, hellblade had pretty damn janky combat that was repetitive to boot...it was it's themes of mental illness that made it unique and worth playing. No one was sticking around for the "great gameplay" lol.
and you could argue they did it on a budget, but even when they have a higher budget they still tend to produce mediocre gameplay.
Hello everyone, long time lurker first time poster. What better (or worse) thread to start off in. Looking forward to both Series X and PS5. Really hoping 343 knocks it out of the park with Halo Infinite and nails every aspect after disappointing in different parts of the game with 4 & 5. Also hoping Sony stops their silence and PS Meeting is imminent.
Haven't decided on which console I'll get at launch as it's sounding like from most of the insiders that they are really close in power, so it'll have to be the games/other features that convince me.
Haven't decided on which console I'll get at launch as it's sounding like from most of the insiders that they are really close in power, so it'll have to be the games/other features that convince me.
How well something sells is a pretty reliable predictor of what we're going to see more of, so to the extent that I want to understand what studios are going to be able to fund ambitious projects, or what IPs are likely to get sequels it makes sense to pay attention. I do agree that the correlation between how well a game sells and how much I'll enjoy it is pretty weak, so it's not something I look at when deciding what to buy or play.
Yeah, their heavy focus on Kinect games and then games as a service that they had in the end of the 360 era/beginning of Xbox One era really sucked valuable resources away from good games. I feel like there was a significant change when they got their own seat at the head of the table as an actual division inside of Microsoft. Before that they were part of the Windows group, which always seemed like such a weird fit for a gaming division that wasn't very focused on PC.
Come and get your fresh hot takes folks! Step right up! Fresh hot takes!
Bite your tongue. Enslaved was "shite?" It was awesome! What was wrong with it, exactly? It even scored well.
That they will match Sony's or Nintendo's first party output. I think that is far from certain. I do think there is potential though. Super excited for what NT produce. I didn't really like the gameplay in Hellblade, but Heavenly Sword was super impressive visually when it released, and they are willing to explore interesting ideas.
Also, Sony's Japan studio produced Astrobot, which was a contendor from the VR side.
was it hyped before that?
Actually I think it got way more popular after its acquisition, the first game sold 1 million copies after 1 year on 3 platforms, while the second chapter's trailer got 1,3m views in just one month
For comparision TLOU sold something like 15-20 millions, while the second chapter's first trailer has got 8 million views afetr more than 3 years
Suker Punch has unironically more chances to win than any of Microsoft new studios
You just described most games tbh very rare games are mechanically great and have an amazing story. Since you are choosing Xbox studios I'll take the ps route. No one played uncharted or TLOU for the great gameplay arguably both are middling, god of war also was meh until the most recent one. If you look further back the last guardian controls were awful. A great mechanical game and great story is exceedingly rare especially nowadays when developers favour graphics over anything else.
Nonsense. Their action game mechanics have never been what they're known for, ranging from serviceable to borderline janky, while their character rendering and world-building are first-rate. Neither has anything to do with who owns them, and I hope they keep growing as a studio and honing their craft. If Hellblade 2 is as thematically remarkable as the first entry it just gives me another reason to own an Xbox even without being a top-tier action title. Isn't that the whole point?
Steppings post-tapeout will happen if bugs are discovered FYI
That last bit is basically my argument. I don't think a games popularity so to speak is a metric for purchasing it. Same with the consoles for me it's more about services, where my friends play, and controller. I couldn't care less if all the games were multiplat Exclusives mean little to me apart from the fact I have to spend an additional 4-500$ to play them.
So every studio has to have had "The Last of Us" level success to be considered good? That seems like a ridiculous argument. Let's remember that Naughty Dog was purchased by Sony when they were still making Crash Bandicoot games.
Do you remember the PS4 New Zealand crisis?
It feels like a long time ago now.
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