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When do you think the PS5 reveal will take place?

  • January

    Votes: 6 0.3%
  • February

    Votes: 1,172 65.7%
  • March

    Votes: 273 15.3%
  • April

    Votes: 81 4.5%
  • May

    Votes: 116 6.5%
  • June

    Votes: 48 2.7%
  • Later

    Votes: 89 5.0%

  • Total voters
    1,785
  • Poll closed .
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MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,029
I'm mean everything is pointing to that IMO.

If Sony comes with a 9 TF machine with $499 price they are done. The only way for them with 9TF is $399

they outsold with a late, overpriced ps3. If corrections are needed, they'll make them.

if Sony is $100 cheaper they'll sell more. If Sony is the same price and around the same lower they'll sell more. The only sceneario I see xsx seliing more is sony at the same price but significantly less powerful - like more than PS4:xb1 difference, noticeable to regular consumers
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
Sony doesn't develop chips, they choose what they want from what parts AMD offer them at some given timeframe. The moment when this choice must be made is likely about a year prior to the planned release date. Up until that moment all scenarios are equally possible IMO.
Okay, I was not precise enough: So you suggest Sony ordered tape outs of several chip designs from AMD for testing until late 2019 to throw some of them away after eating the cost?
 
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xem

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,043
I'm the only one who thinks in US and UK XSX will destroy PS5 in sales?
IF Lockhart doesnt exist and its a 499 XSX vs a 399 PS5 and the power gap is 3-4 TF I dont agree at all. Price will win in that scenario and reflect in sales. BUT if Lockhart is true and you get a 299 console then yes. Iv alrdy stated my predictions that this will allow MS to win in those 2 territories.
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
Being a business is not just what money is being made now, it is trying to forecast where tech and consumption will be in the future and trying to meet that future demand.
Oh sure, a lot have changed since the last launch. The Xbox division is heavier than before. Nadella changed MS and he changed the Xbox brand by making Spencer the head of Xbox.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
MS can certainly match Sony in US and UK but once Sony's bigger games like Spider-Man 2 start releasing I can't see MS catching up.

Of course Sony could put on a similar disastrous reveal similar to the Xbox One and hobble themselves out the gate, you never know.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
Sony has talked about premium, power, performance. They haven't talked about taking over the living room as an all in one or making philosophical changes to the PS4 core values.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,817
Okay, I was not precise: So you suggest Sony ordered tape outs of several chip designs from AMD for testing until late 2019 to throw some of them away after eating the cost?
No. I'm suggesting that they've had several possible PS5 SoC configurations developed simultaineously, targeted at different possible launch timeframes (19/20/21) and likely different possible price points as well. The tapeout is the point of no return when you actually choose which configuration you will use in your final product. Up until that moment everything is done in s/w prototypes and off-the-shelves PC h/w. This point is likely about a year from launch, considering how AMD tapeouts are usually happening and the fact that this is a console SoC, not a GPU for AIBs or a CPU to be sold separately from the rest of the system.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,989
Of course, it was the original launch plan, scrapped long ago.
Yes, there are dozens of us.

We might possibly be debating about that right now, lol.

Yep, I have the first version and it is really not acceptable. Try to build scary situation or emotionnal one with silence and little touch of sounds in the game while a plane is taking off in my livingroom...

There is 3 versions and, yes, DF said it is better now. But I also saw people complained about it here on Era while having the third revision. So it is still not that great.

Yeah, I got a refurbished Pro, first version.

Loud as hell, my work around right now is opening the window, lol. Letting cold air in.
At least something interesting by a fully verified person working in the indusry. It matches what Jason Schreier told.

Yup, and now I'm more curious about PSVR2.
 

androvsky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,498
Okay, I was not precise enough: So you suggest Sony ordered tape outs of several chip designs from AMD for testing until late 2019 to throw some of them away after eating the cost?
Why would AMD toss unused APU designs? Wouldn't it make for a nice gaming laptop, maybe after disabling the PS4 BC modes (requiring yet another stepping a year later...)
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,912
Maryland

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
It would have been a new APU. Vastly different power profile. It isn't just the GPU side of the APU that you are looking at when you begin to make such changes.
Exactly, it was an example of why it's pretty unlikely to have changed the Oberon silicon to something else in 2019.
Ok... fair enough then. Guess we will see how it all plays out.

As for anything that is pushing 2Ghz, yes; I would doubt it. Based on what we have seen from 7nm GPUslast year. Now if they somehow using a more mature 7nmnode, or even 7nm+ or 7nm EUV and that somehow means higher clocks and manageable heat... then fine. I am all for that. But if that was what sony is banking on, doesn't that mean on the same process MS can just push the clocks of their 56CU GPU even higher and end up with something like 13TF+ to sony's 9TFGPU?
If MS has 56 CUs and Sony has 36 CU, it means MS's power and heat envelope is higher than Sony's. Whatever AMD's abilities are in 2020, MS and Sony knew and planned for them. It's not like MS or Sony changed the node suddenly, they are using whatever they can use in 2020. Going from 1.8Ghz to 2Ghz is just an 11% increase, if Sony has sufficient cooling to handle 1.8Ghz, they might have enough to handle 2Ghz.

Maye because back then MS also thought they would have twice the RAM? Also thought that kinect 2.0 and their TV push was going to mean a lot more to consumers than having more power? Were already coming in at being more expensive and couldn't really make their console be any more expensive and bigger than it already was going to be? Don't forget, Kinect was bundled in. Unless they wanted a $600 console. Kinda like how the only way a 36CU GPU makes sense now is if sony is going for a $399 console, but if they are going with a 52CU GPU then surely that will mean they are going for a $499 console.

I know what you are trying to do, but if you must... then be fair. Don't talk like all MS had to do back then was just add a few more CU or as if that is what I am saying sony would be having to do here. As far as MS was probably concerned, they looked at the price of being more or as powerful then that sony was paying was that sony wold Sony have 4GB of RAM. And they felt having 8GB of RAM would have given them the edge. And the only way the could have done that at the time was to have DDR3 and ESRAM.
Well, maybe Sony had a 36 CU @1.8Ghz GPU because they wanted to build a 399$ console and upgrading to 12TF+ all of a sudden will make that plan invalid. So as you see, when you know a company's plans, suddenly it makes sense for a console to be not what you've expected. That's my point, changes are hard at a late stage and any level of power makes sense for any console because consoles are built to match a vision, not to be as powerful as possible. Sometimes the vision is power, but it's not always. After all, if PS4's vision was power, it wouldn't have had a weak 1.8TF GPU.
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
No. I'm suggesting that they've had several possible PS5 SoC configurations developed simultaineously, targeted at different possible launch timeframes (19/20/21) and likely different possible price points as well. The tapeout is the point of no return when you actually choose which configuration you will use in your final product. Up until that moment everything is done in s/w prototypes and off-the-shelves PC h/w. This point is likely about a year from launch, considering how AMD tapeouts are usually happening and the fact that this is a console SoC, not a GPU for AIBs or a CPU to be sold separately from the rest of the system.
Thank you. What do you think Oberon is though? Not a tape-out? Still simulation?
 
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Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Sony has talked about premium, power, performance. They haven't talked about taking over the living room as an all in one or making philosophical changes to the PS4 core values.
Cerny said its not small upgrade and another Sony guy said its for the hardcore niche, but they have not really talked about "power + performance" like MS has.
 

Bosch

Banned
May 15, 2019
3,680
they outsold with a late, overpriced ps3. If corrections are needed, they'll make them.

if Sony is $100 cheaper they'll sell more. If Sony is the same price and around the same lower they'll sell more. The only sceneario I see xsx seliing more is sony at the same price but significantly less powerful - like more than PS4:xb1 difference, noticeable to regular consumers
in US and UK they didn't.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,912
Maryland
The fact Oberon was stepped to E indicates that it is not a throwaway design.
Letters represent major revisions. The fact that we're on E suggests it could be very different than the A0 parts that surfaced.
No. I'm suggesting that they've had several possible PS5 SoC configurations developed simultaineously, targeted at different possible launch timeframes (19/20/21) and likely different possible price points as well. The tapeout is the point of no return when you actually choose which configuration you will use in your final product. Up until that moment everything is done in s/w prototypes and off-the-shelves PC h/w. This point is likely about a year from launch, considering how AMD tapeouts are usually happening and the fact that this is a console SoC, not a GPU for AIBs or a CPU to be sold separately from the rest of the system.
Some things can be fixed/updated with metal mask changes that don't touch the underlying bulk silicon. Those would lead to numbered iterations in the stepping.
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
No. I'm suggesting that they've had several possible PS5 SoC configurations developed simultaineously, targeted at different possible launch timeframes (19/20/21) and likely different possible price points as well. The tapeout is the point of no return when you actually choose which configuration you will use in your final product. Up until that moment everything is done in s/w prototypes and off-the-shelves PC h/w. This point is likely about a year from launch, considering how AMD tapeouts are usually happening and the fact that this is a console SoC, not a GPU for AIBs or a CPU to be sold separately from the rest of the system.
Consoles go into the tapeout stage long before a year before launch. According to Albert Panelo, a year before launch an almost final version of the console is already built on an assembly line.

He said that as a response for a question regarding adding some CUs a year before launch:
It would be impossible. You'd either delay the program, try and see what you could get done within the chip you had (enable redundant CU's or upclock) or ship what you have.

I'm not a silicon engineer. Someone who is may be able to speak in more depth. My experience would say that "adding CU's" to a chip that doesn't have them is no longer that chip, it's a new program.

What I can tell you is that 12 months before release, you're actually manufacturing consoles. Not final consoles, but you have production lines going and are manufacturing units for validation and testing.

Phil tweeted in December that the team had takeome units. Those are pre-production units but "pre-production" is still made on a production line. It may not be using all the final parts, but the process is designed to work out manufacturing kinks.

To ship for the end of the year, manufacturing is likely starting in late summer which at this point is only 4 - 5 months away.

Phil has an XSX since December 4th and every insider has said that MS is late compared to Sony. If PS5 was massively upgraded, the process probably started before 2019.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,275
Yes, I agree its not final anything, which was kinda my point. But there are folks here that seem to be treating it as such.

I also have a respectable idea of how chips are made, and while I know what I am saying is "more difficult" its not impractical or impossible.

We also don't know for certain how old that information in that leak is or how relevant it is to the grand scheme of things. It's just apparently something to chew on.

And just to reiterate... I am not here saying "PS5must be 12TF" or "PS5 most be more powerful"....etc. I am saying that suggesting we get a 2Ghz GPU console for 9.2TF makes even less sense than expecting them to redesign an APU extensively. And if we must stick to the 36CU thing as final... then we also must accept that the most we could realistically get from it is 8.4TF.

Come on, noone really believes PS5 will be 36CU while Series X is 56CU, as much as they keep bringing the GitHub up over and over. At least I think they're smarter than that lol.

But if I was Sony I'd happily let them carry on with it, as if 8.4TF is what people expect imagine getting close to 11TF or even higher ... they're helping them with free PR ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
I recently watched this mind bendingly awesome video (I can't remember which thread it was posted in):



Now, in the video the presenter goes to mention that "portion" of a chip is (at least for Intel) is being created with EUV lithography while the rest of it is being crafted by traditional lithography for their 10nm fab.

Now, can anyone explain to me how that would work for a something like a single processor and how EUV might be used for 7nm APU (and whether they partially or fully created by this fab process)?
 

Sems4arsenal

Member
Apr 7, 2019
3,627
Very surprised nothing has leaked so far considering some of the stuff is kinda out there.

Have to say though, Sony's handling of the marketing for PS5 has been a bit lackluster.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,989
I'm the only one who thinks in US and UK XSX will destroy PS5 in sales?

No, I'm sure some think this but....
I'm mean everything is pointing to that IMO.

If Sony comes with a 9 TF machine with $499 price they are done. The only way for them with 9TF is $399
Everything's pointing to us not knowing the more detailed specs of the PS5.

That's it.

Github data could be final, could just be BC testing, could be something else.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
Letters represent major revisions. The fact that we're on E suggests it could be very different than the A0 parts that surfaced.

Some things can be fixed/updated with metal mask changes that don't touch the underlying bulk silicon. Those would lead to numbered iterations in the stepping.
I agree. That and new NAVI coming soon mean we really don't necessarily know much.

also, I was reading an article about N7P, it was described as coming in two flavors: high density or high performance. The high performance was spread out a bit more.

 

Bish_Bosch

Member
Apr 30, 2018
1,016
I'm the only one who thinks in US and UK XSX will destroy PS5 in sales?

I think if they price it right there is a solid chance they could narrow the gap but once Sony gets going with strong exclusives it will be hard to narrow the gap. Especially if Sony has a reasonably strong launch lineup with a announcement of Spiderman 2 by fall 2021 they will be hard to catch let alone beat.
 

Deleted member 62280

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 18, 2019
497
It's like MS didn't triple their studios in 1 year with some of you. Who's to say that the quality of first party won't be equal or better going forward?
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,912
Maryland
I agree. That and new NAVI coming soon mean we really don't necessarily know much.

also, I was reading an article about N7P, it was described as coming in two flavors: high density or high performance. The high performance was spread out a bit more.

N7 is different too. The 7.5T so called "HPC" node and the 6T "LP" node. These are the relative cell Heights featured in the design libraries, so N7P would just carry those forward.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
No, it started with the Wired article. There was nothing pushing them to announce anything officially except for some rumors floating around.

OK, I think of marketing a bit differently then. I know it exists like some films in production exist, I usually think of marketing as pushing the product.

This period has felt more like stalling for time.
 

Bish_Bosch

Member
Apr 30, 2018
1,016
It's like MS didn't triple their studios in 1 year with some of you. Who's to say that the quality of first party won't be equal or better going forward?

Yeah but it will take a few years to see what the results of these acquisitions. Obviously they hired some real talent and have the potential to match Sony but then again Sony also has a strong first party lineup and a deep pool of Japanese dev relations to develop third party exclusives.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,746
It's like MS didn't triple their studios in 1 year with some of you. Who's to say that the quality of first party won't be equal or better going forward?
They also had studios during end of 360/early XB1 like Lionhead and botched those. I'm optimistic but I will wait to see if they truly turn it around, 1-2 announcements won't sway me after being burned by a decade of Rare doing very little.

when Fable reboot is out, Rare IPs have been revived (PD, BK, etc) and they've got some new IPs out that turn out good, I'll jump into XSX
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,536
OK, I think of marketing a bit differently then. I know it exists like some films in production exist, I usually think of marketing as pushing the product.

This period has felt more like stalling for time.

I get that. I do think the full on push won't start until closer to launch because they have Dreams, TLOU2 and Ghosts to push on PS4 (before the inevitable PS5 updates).

I personally believe looking at what they did in 2013 is a fools errand since PS is wildly different in leadership and structure today.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
I get that. I do think the full on push won't start until closer to launch because they have Dreams, TLOU2 and Ghosts to push on PS4 (before the inevitable PS5 updates).

I personally believe looking at what they did in 2013 is a fools errand since PS is wildly different in leadership and structure today.

Yeah, I'm not sure what they are going to do, they are supposed to have planned an earlier launch so I'm assuming they have games etc waiting to go already. All the silence is pretty impressive really.
 

Gohlad

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,072
I'm mean everything is pointing to that IMO.

If Sony comes with a 9 TF machine with $499 price they are done. The only way for them with 9TF is $399

I mean, for all we know XSX could actually be €599 (12TF), PS5 €499 (9.2TF), and Lockhart €399 (4TF), would they still be done?

Those people at Sony and MS have done extensive market research, have to highest innovative technology at their disposal, they know how much to ask for a product relative to its value. If MS could get 12TF for €499 so can Sony and vice-versa.
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,985
This period has felt more like stalling for time.

This is nothing but idle speculation. There's no space to own right now. 7-10months from now, these things will be on store shelves. Your average consumer isn't going to be keyed into a console launch for nearly a year. The only people who are going to feel like Sony is "stalling" are going to be people who talk about it in a forum on a daily basis.
 
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