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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation |OT10| - We aim to transition those from OT9 at a pace never seen before. [SEE THREADMARKS FOR CHANCE AT GLORY]
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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From where did those 2 infos get revealed and leaked for PS5? I missed both.
How will they benefit.
I doubt developers are going to put a ton of assets in a spot that you can zoom past at a million miles an hour.
Sonic Team discovered pretty quickly that this does not go well.
Again, part of Sony's patent is about making the SSD cheaper to make, so in this case proprietary isn't going to mean it's more expensive than using a third party.
Hopefully there isn't anyone on this forum that says "PC Master Race" seriously.
Isn't Elite Series 2 already using USB C as well? Shape of the port really plays no role in what the port really can offer.
Well I missed most of it but this has to start from from some original sources right? I saw the original sources for Series X but not for PS5.
Ya'll are asking the wrong question.
Shouldn't be "how many TFLOPS?"
Should be "HOW MANY GIGARAYS!?!"
Shouldn't be "how many TFLOPS?"
Should be "HOW MANY GIGARAYS!?!"
That's clearly a DualShock 3, not 4. Looks like they're canceling the PS5 and just reissuing the PS3 with an SSD.
No, the GitHub leak is concrete info. It can be interpreted in multiple ways, but any description of the consoles has to include a reasonable interpretation of it. It can't just be dismissed the way many pastebins can.
There's another, more logical way to reconcile everything. We know the GitHub notes were from tests of backwards compatibility. The current example we have for Sony doing that is on PS4 Pro, which natively has 36 CUs at 911 MHz. Its PS4 compatibility mode downgrades that to 18 CUs at 800 MHz to perfectly mirror its predecessor machine. But it also has Boost Mode, meant to smooth out dynamic res and unstable framerates of games that don't officially support the Pro hardware. That mode runs 18 CUs at 911 MHz. That is, keeping the CU number the same as the prior hardware, but bumping up the clocks to current max. (I suspect it also disables the ID buffer and other new Pro hardware as superfluous, as suggested by Sony patents.) Note that this setup doesn't represent the total capacity of the GPU in the console, just the max they allow for boosting.
Well, what does the PS5 have to do for backwards compatibility? The same strict hardware mirroring approach would require 18 CUs at 800 MHz, and 36 CUs at 911 MHz--and that's exactly what the GitHub notes showed. But games with official PS4 Pro enhancements can have dynamic res and unstable framerates too, so why not have a Boost Mode for them? Say...36 CUs at 2.0 GHz. That is, keeping the CU number the same as the prior hardware, but bumping up the clocks to current max. And disabling the new PS5 raytracing hardware as superfluous.
This is exactly the same as the third BC mode shown in the GitHub leak. And like Pro, if this is Boost Mode it doesn't need to represent the total capacity of the GPU in the console. There could be plenty more power, and not just RT hardware, available to PS5 titles.
Exclusives will show the most difference, sure. But I don't know where the idea that third parties never have big gaps comes from. (It's a common belief, I'm not singling you out.) Did third parties balk to make Call of Duty much lower resolution and lower framerate on Xbox One versus PS4 right at launch? Did they neglect to make Red Dead Redemption or Far Cry 5 or many others much better on One X than Pro? History shows us that third parties take advantage of the hardware as much as they can. Multiplatform titles are competing with other games on the individual platforms, at their respective power levels. Not just the lowest common denominator.
Only because of the ubiquity of USB A. C needs to become more popular. Surprised it's taking so long. USB C is so much better.
Just feel like all non-loading SSD utilizations haven't been articulated well at all.
"People will be able to move really fast through a ton of high quality assets!" why would devs ever want this to occur. Sonic Team was massively harmed by how many 480p assets they had to make for Sonic.
"They'll be able to use it as virtual memory" how is 2-4 GB/s anywhere close to the 13 GB/s that RAM can do.
"People will be able to move really fast through a ton of high quality assets!" why would devs ever want this to occur. Sonic Team was massively harmed by how many 480p assets they had to make for Sonic.
"They'll be able to use it as virtual memory" how is 2-4 GB/s anywhere close to the 13 GB/s that RAM can do.
Please stop tagging me. I will let you know what happens.
Isn't USB C required for USB 3.2 2x2? That would have implications for external SSDs on the Series X. I can't really think of another reason it would need to have USB C though.
Edit:
Sounds like there is nothing in the standard for USB 3.2 requiring USB C, it is just very unusual for a non-C cable to support USB 3.2 2x2.
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I prefer A to C that way pretty much everything can be compatible
Keep in mind that even if it's a 2GB/s XSX SSD vs a 5GB/s PS5 SSD, the really important thing for games is the random read speeds, which may not be very different at all despite the gap in sequential reads. Or maybe Sony has worked on their SSD to make it somehow better at random reads than we would expect. Including a ReRAM cache would cause the PS5 to absolutely dominate in random reads, but I'm not betting on that.
It's basically just memory paging, except the storage is much faster so it emulates RAM much better than slow ass HDDs.
USB A & C are just connector types. The XSX controller takes a USB C connector as well, but the front-facing port on the console is USB A.
The connector type does not dictate the speeds or other properties of the port. Presumably the USB A ports on the XSX are USB 3.1 spec, which is the spec people associate with the USB C connector.
See this article for more background/clarification: https://www.newnex.com/technology-articles-USB3.1-vs-USBTypeC.php
The faster your storage, the less RAM you need to use for "buffering", aka storing data that may or may not be needed but has to be held in RAM "just in case".
Cheaper to make does not mean they end up with the cheaper solution. It could just as easily mean "cheaper than such a solution ould have otherwise cost". But said the solution could likely still end up being more expensive.
Point is, there is more to go on suggesting it will be more expensive. I don't see how sony makes an SSD solution that is "faster than anything seen on PCs" (albeit at the time of press) that ends up being cheaper than the of the shelf solution MS is using.
The issue with that leak is that it is without context. That's like a company saying we built the fastest vehicle we ever made and no one knowing that all they make are tractors.
We can massage the information to suit whatever agenda we are pushing at the time, but it doesn't change that said information is without context. We don't even know if its complete or how old it is.
You are wrong, probably because you are basing your theory on dated information.
The connector type plays a major role in what type of USB 3 you really have. Yes, USB 3 is what you really should be saying and not A or C (the connector types). A USB 3 type A port instantly says its not compatible nor future proof with certain types of USB 3. Specifically USB 3.2 gen 1x2 and 2x2 respectively.
What if part of the focus on SSD is developing super-fast/optimized paging algorithms on the software/OS-side? Any patents filed on that?
Would you be surprised? Anyway, it's a great time to be alive. To see some truly awesome consoles.
It's still 6x slower than RAM and would require people having parts of their SSD unused (which is going to be a tough ask as games next-gen will be 100+ GBs, have to be installed, and their SSDs will probably be 1 TB).
I think the PS5 event announcement will be at the end of February with the actual event being in the second half of March. And that's IF we even get an event announcement. Mighty big if. But it is possible Sony won't say anything else about the console until it's released and let leaker's leak that shiz.
USB A has a maximum number of pins it can support due to it being held back by backward compatibility requirements. USB C can support up to 24 iirc which allows all kinds of things including higher power delivery.
USB A on one end absolutely means limiting how much data can be transferred as well as how much power. There's no point in putting a C connector on anything if the console isn't going to have a C port, IMO.
If I was forced to predict what I think the PS5 had on it I'd say at least 1 C port but A ports as well. Unsure of the mix but it would be wise to have more than one C port for use with external drives as well as to quickly charge the controller.
USB A on one end absolutely means limiting how much data can be transferred as well as how much power. There's no point in putting a C connector on anything if the console isn't going to have a C port, IMO.
If I was forced to predict what I think the PS5 had on it I'd say at least 1 C port but A ports as well. Unsure of the mix but it would be wise to have more than one C port for use with external drives as well as to quickly charge the controller.
No I get but the super fine details of something is 0.000X faster or whatnot is silly to argue or get bummed out about because the leap from this gen to next gen is going to be significantly more substantial then the leap from previous gen to now. That is cool.
Then they can partition over more of the SSD storage to the system. Right? Just like an extra 16gb or so
The faster storage (which can emulate physical memory somewhat effectively) is already in addition to at least 16GB of RAM. If that's still not enough then perhaps it's more of an optimization issue on the software side. I mean, we have devs like Carmack saying 8GB is enough to accomplish anything a given dev wants.
They could just include one or two cheap USB A to C adapters with the console for the first year (for whoever wants to re-use previous gen hardware like the PSVR). With the console consisting purely of USB-C ports.
Don't forget game sizes this gen were ginormous partially because of data duplication to ease loading times. Without the need for that the sizes should come down quite a bit.
Would be cool if a dev of some sort could comment though to give us a better idea how how much space would be saved though.
Would be cool if a dev of some sort could comment though to give us a better idea how how much space would be saved though.
Agree, and I think Liabe did an excellent job explaining that at in that post.
A huge difference can be seen in the suspend/resume of games. Transferring all that RAM to the SSD and back can create a big gap.
vs the current 250x+ slower than RAM HDDs we are currently using?
And a portion of those SSDs would be reserved regardless.
Going off the GDC Spiderman Video, they will be able to manage more assists and have more "things" going on in the background then before. Ability to have the AI be more randomized will be a big thing especially in open world games since they will be able to just be able to put in more data than they can now.
ItWasMeantToBe19
RE: Virtual Memory — here's some great posts from an indie dev on that shed light on its actual capabilities.
tl:dr — too slow to store graphics-related data structures (i.e vertex arrays), so don't expect huge improvements in texture loading/object pop-in etc.
RE: Virtual Memory — here's some great posts from an indie dev on that shed light on its actual capabilities.
tl:dr — too slow to store graphics-related data structures (i.e vertex arrays), so don't expect huge improvements in texture loading/object pop-in etc.
EDIT.
LOL! I just saw the thumbnail for the video. That's funny :)
/EDIT
Hmm, I was curious if HopHopGamer had ever said anything else after his "breaking news" about the PS5 remastering engine. It looks like last week he put out a video where he made some additional claims about PS5 features
Starts at 11:50
For those who don't want to bother watching:
- He claims that Shareplay will evolve to the point where if a streamer is playing a game they could pass the game off to someone in their chat (even if they're not on their friends list) to play
- For accessibility features there will be a "co-pilot" feature where the AI controls certain parts of the controller for those not able to fully utilize all the buttons on the DS5.
That last one sounds nifty, although I have no clue how such a thing would reliably work. He also seems to think the PlayStation Experience will replace E3 for them, but he does seem to phrase that more as an opinion rather than something he's leaking.
Nothing too crazy, but figured I'd mention them in case we ever get leaks mentioning those features.
LOL! I just saw the thumbnail for the video. That's funny :)
/EDIT
Hmm, I was curious if HopHopGamer had ever said anything else after his "breaking news" about the PS5 remastering engine. It looks like last week he put out a video where he made some additional claims about PS5 features
Starts at 11:50
For those who don't want to bother watching:
- He claims that Shareplay will evolve to the point where if a streamer is playing a game they could pass the game off to someone in their chat (even if they're not on their friends list) to play
- For accessibility features there will be a "co-pilot" feature where the AI controls certain parts of the controller for those not able to fully utilize all the buttons on the DS5.
That last one sounds nifty, although I have no clue how such a thing would reliably work. He also seems to think the PlayStation Experience will replace E3 for them, but he does seem to phrase that more as an opinion rather than something he's leaking.
Nothing too crazy, but figured I'd mention them in case we ever get leaks mentioning those features.
Using SSD storage as ram is one of the dumbest things I've seen recently.
No that won't work, be happy load times will be a second or 2 at most.
You're suspending the gamestate that is in RAM to the SSD so you can play another game. Then come back exactly where you were before. A savestate for modern games.
This should be a good bookmark post for when Digital Foundry comparisons start rolling in.
Oculus Quest is USB-C to C
iPad Pro is C to C
MacBook Pro is C to C
iPhone 11 Pro is Lightning to C (and it's annoying- should be C to C)
Switch has USB-C (which I typically charge with my MacBook Pro charger when traveling)
Switch Pro Controller is USB-C
The less USB-A (and Lighting) is involved with things the better. We need to ditch A ASAP.
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