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Overall maximum teraflops for next-gen launch consoles?

  • 8 teraflops

    Votes: 43 1.9%
  • 9 teraflops

    Votes: 56 2.4%
  • 12 teraflops

    Votes: 978 42.5%
  • 14 teraflops

    Votes: 525 22.8%
  • Team ALL THE WAY UP +14 teraflops

    Votes: 491 21.3%
  • 10 teraflops (because for some reason I put 9 instead of 10)

    Votes: 208 9.0%

  • Total voters
    2,301
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PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,577
To be fair, a console GPU always be a "Lite" version in some way due to TDP.

Well yeah since console GPUs are like the laptop versions of GPUs. It won't be a problem if this is the case anyway since the current laptop GPUs are almost the same as the desktop ones, just a little smaller, but still packing close power to their desktop equivalent.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
I pointed this out but not sure if this the case; I think this 4chan post is the first mention that Gonzalo is Xbox:


Nah, 4chan dun goofed on the CU count. Easily spotted fake.

Why would they call it "Navi 10 Lite" if it's straight up Navi 10? This post makes sense of it:

Neither Sony, AMD or any other official source has mentioned "Navi 10 Lite" in connection to PS5 or anything PlayStation.

Navi 10 Lite comes from the PCI database from the Ariel/Gonzalo record. The only person connecting Ariel/Gonzalo/Navi10Lite with PS5 is the Japanese tweeter Komachi, and yet he's provided no indication said connection is anything other than his own speculation. People just ran with it after that.

I mean, if the 1.8GHz GPU clock wasn't reason enough to doubt Komachi's assumption, surely his claim PS5 is not Navi when both the console manufacturer and IHV have officially confirmed it, surely should be.

Sony: "We are using Navi"

AMD: "Sony are using Navi"

Era: "Must be Vega. Also 8TF" *runs around with pants on head*

There is speculation. And then there is this.

It's pretty embarrassing.

To even entertain the idea that Sony or any semi-custom AMD partner can just up and switch GPU architecture halfway through a project is absurd.
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,279
Sony would have to go out of the way to make an 8TF machine 2020. I don't even know why that number is considered realistic at this point. Xbox 1X on 7nm hits above 8TF.

Jesus, both Sony and AMD say the console uses NAVI. Nah, it must not be. What in seven hells is going on?
You can't take anything at face value. Everything is a hidden message to be decoded.
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
I don't understand why people are going nuts because Sony may had planned with Vega. They made a change, so that is a thing of the past now. This also doesn't change the computational power perception because nothing has changed since the Navi reveal just 2 days ago.

All good, all fine.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
I don't understand why people are going nuts because Sony may had planned with Vega. They made a change, so that is a thing of the past now. This also doesn't change the computational power perception because nothing has changed since the Navi reveal just 2 days ago.

All good, all fine.
That's fine but we have posters like Fruity basically saying Sony and AMD are lying as ps5 is Vega hybrid and not Navi .

Speculating is more than fine but crazy statement like that after we have facts should be avoided to derail the thread
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
That's fine but we have posters like Fruity basically saying Sony and AMD are lying as ps5 is Vega hybrid and not Navi .

Speculating is more than fine but crazy statement like that after we have facts should be avoided to derail the thread
Where did I claim that? Can you show me where I said Sony are lying? I'll wait.
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
User Warned: System Wars
Not according to some posts:
LOL
Based on that tweet it sounds like that. We've already clarified Navi 10 Lite =/= Navi 10 just through naming schemes if true. I said it could be a hybrid between the two or something (speculation).

This is what I meant about Sony fanboys coming out of the woodwork. You like to downplay other platforms but when it comes to yours any speculation or compromise is derailing lol.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Not in this thread it doesn't, lol.
Navi being Sony exclusive was laways bat shit crazy . but How convenient to accept the first baseless rumor from one poster ,eh ??
Where did I claim that? Can you show me where I said Sony are lying? I'll wait.
U said it is "Vega hybrid" which means when Sony said it is Navi they were lying .how else would that be interpreted?

We have official confirmation that ps5 is Navi yet you proceed to say it's a "Vega hybrid " just cause reason lol
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
Navi being Sony exclusive was laways bat shit crazy . but How convenient to accept the first baseless rumor from one poster ,eh ??
U said it is "Vega hybrid" which means when Sony said it is Navi they were lying .how else would that be interpreted?

We have official confirmation that ps5 is Navi yet you proceed to say it's a "Vega hybrid " just cause reason lol
I'm not the only one to say
so my guess is basically the timeline was:
1) sony planned on releasing a console every 3 years, a ps4 pro in 2016 and a ps5 in 2019 with a navi gpu.
2) navi, which was originally planned for 2018, got delayed to 2019, meaning sony did not have enough time to add in navi to the console and resorted to using vega with added in navi features, thus navi 10 lite came to be.
3) at some point during 2018, sony decided that this would be foolish and delayed their entire console plan a whole year and redesigned their entire road map, leading to e3 2019 getting cancelled
4) with the new plans sony are using a real navi chip and a zen 2 (digital foundry said they heard sony are going to use jaguar, so its possible that was also a part of the original plan)

the important thing is, that sony seem to be fixing the roadmap faults they had back then so i am still optimistic. does give ammo to certain people for their console warring though i guess.
plans always change, roadmaps fixed etc. lets just hope they can build a console that utilizes all of their components well in time.

Why are you calling him out for saying the same thing?
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
LOL
Based on that tweet it sounds like that. We've already clarified Navi 10 Lite =/= Navi 10 just through naming schemes if true. I said it could be a hybrid between the two or something (speculation).

This is what I meant about Sony fanboys coming out of the woodwork. You like to downplay other platforms but when it comes to yours any speculation or compromise is derailing lol.
Thank you for confirmation.so u were very upset when 10 rumors suggested next Xbox could be Vega (ofcourse all non sense ),so when u saw one tweet u decided to derail the thread to feel better about what u felt few days back :D.

Anyways let's not derail more .
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
2,594
LOL
Based on that tweet it sounds like that. We've already clarified Navi 10 Lite =/= Navi 10 just through naming schemes if true. I said it could be a hybrid between the two or something (speculation).

This is what I meant about Sony fanboys coming out of the woodwork. You like to downplay other platforms but when it comes to yours any speculation or compromise is derailing lol.

Haha yes I'm the fanboy.

It's clearly obvious that when Sony say they're using Navi, AMD say they're using Navi and the GPU is alleged to be called "NAVI" 10 lite the logical stance to take is that it's Vega based.

Me thinking that is ridiculous clearly makes me Sony fanboy.
 

Deleted member 18951

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,531
Navi being Sony exclusive was laways bat shit crazy . but How convenient to accept the first baseless rumor from one poster ,eh ??
U said it is "Vega hybrid" which means when Sony said it is Navi they were lying .how else would that be interpreted?

We have official confirmation that ps5 is Navi yet you proceed to say it's a "Vega hybrid " just cause reason lol

Sorry I dont know what you mean? Which baseless rumour are we talking about and who is conveniently accepting it?

Have AMD themselves not already said they were developing Navi well before Playstation started speaking to them about the PS5?

This thread simply flips to whichever new rumour fits someone's narrative that they are trying to set, I guarantee you we will still be talking about Anaconda using Vega in a weeks time, lol.
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
Thank you for confirmation.so u were very upset when 10 rumors suggested next Xbox could be Vega (ofcourse all.non sense ),so when u saw one tweet u decided to derail the thread to feel better about what.u felt few days back :D
Actually go back 100 pages I was one of the first ones to say maybe MS was using Vega.
Wouldn't this suggest they're using Vega, or something based on AMDs next gen workstation cards at least? He talks about multiple use in the servers for other tasks like machine learning and the first thing that comes to mind is obviously Vega because of GPU like Vega Instinct which is primarily designed for tasks like machine learning.

I'm no expert but wouldn't it be simple for MS to have standard Vega in the console paired with 8 core Zen but in the servers they have multiple Vega Instinct cards running alongside Threadripper processors, and when they need to run an Xbox in the cloud they just designate the appropriate hardware and processor cores for each stream? Kinda like what Google is doing with Stadia?

What I'm trying to say is rather than them using gaming focused GPU like Navi and having thousands of Xbox's placed in servers, based on what Phil says there I think he is suggesting something else. How would having a literal Xbox in a server be used for machine learning anyway?

What now?
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Sorry I dont know what you mean? Which baseless rumour are we talking about and who is conveniently accepting it?

Have AMD themselves not already said they were developing Navi well before Playstation started speaking to them about the PS5?

This thread simply flips to whichever new rumour fits someone's narrative that they are trying to set, I guarantee you we will still be talking about Anaconda using Vega in a weeks time, lol.
Hopefully not as it is batshit crazylol .I thought u were talking about Vega being in ps5 .I got it wrong sorry man lol
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
That's fine but we have posters like Fruity basically saying Sony and AMD are lying as ps5 is Vega hybrid and not Navi .

Speculating is more than fine but crazy statement like that after we have facts should be avoided to derail the thread

A post from one poster. Are they some sort of spokesman where their opinions indicate a plurality? Maybe they should start using the royal "we" in their posts.

One post cannot derail a thread. Muliple posters overreacting to it can, though.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Actually go back 100 pages I was one of the first ones to say maybe MS was using Vega.


What now?
Then u shouldn't have wrote this I guess as makes it seem as if u feel having Vega is down playing (btw ana could have Vega and be more powerful than Navi in ps5 just as an FYI) :

"This is what I meant about Sony fanboys coming out of the woodwork. You like to downplay other platforms but when it comes to yours any speculation or compromise is derailing lol."

anyways we r all good .moving on .

reading klobrie post he seem to think 11 TF is a good reasonable guess for anaconda and next gen

Does he want to temper out expectation for 13 TF reveal or realistically 11 TF ish is around the max we could expect ??
 

Kolbe1894

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,159
Then u shouldn't have wrote this I guess as makes it seem as if u feel having Vega is down playing (btw ana could have Vega and be more powerful than Navi in ps5 just as an FYI) :

"This is what I meant about Sony fanboys coming out of the woodwork. You like to downplay other platforms but when it comes to yours any speculation or compromise is derailing lol."

anyways we r all good .moving on .

reading klobrie post he seem to think 11 TF is a good reasonable guess for anaconda and next gen

Does he want to temper out expectation for 13 TF reveal or realistically 11 TF ish is around the max we could expect ??
Well the first 5.5/11TF ish rumor(the paper) comes with 1(Lockhart)/2(Anaconda)TF thing for Ray Tracing, not sure that hell is this thing though lol.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
There are no credible rumors that either MS or Sony is using Vega or any variant thereof. No insiders are indicating so. All claims to the contrary are speculation, and in the case of Sony, directly contradict public statements.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,542
There are no credible rumors that either MS or Sony is using Vega or any variant thereof. No insiders are indicating so. All claims to the contrary are speculation, and in the case of Sony, directly contradict public statements.

Yep. Any speculation that either company was using Vega started in this thread and there hasn't been anything to support the idea.
 
Oct 27, 2017
699
If the whole rumor of Sony wanting to use Vega but changing it Navi is true , 2 things should be considered:

1. Navi was not developed for Sony or 70% of AMD engineers were not working with Sony R&D for Navi.

2. Sony wants a more powerful console .otherwise Vega would have been cheaper and the could have launched in 2019 and getting a 10 million lead on x2.

3. Sony initially planned on using Vega and discarded it for "reasons". Sony have full knowledge of Vega's limitations. AMD employees were drafted to Navi to get it to market faster for Sony.

Might fit, no?
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
Yea I noticed that .does that get added on top or it's already accounted for ? So 13 TF for ana and 6 TF for Lockhart or it doesnt get added on top. anexanhume , any input on this ??
Personally, I think it's bullshit and any RT solution not located directly in the GPU cores should be immediately suspicious. Locality is king when it comes to compute. RT is not a wholly post-process activity, and thus needs locality to the normal rasterization hardware already present.
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
Then u shouldn't have wrote this I guess as makes it seem as if u feel having Vega is down playing (btw ana could have Vega and be more powerful than Navi in ps5 just as an FYI) :

"This is what I meant about Sony fanboys coming out of the woodwork. You like to downplay other platforms but when it comes to yours any speculation or compromise is derailing lol."

anyways we r all good .moving on .

reading klobrie post he seem to think 11 TF is a good reasonable guess for anaconda and next gen

Does he want to temper out expectation for 13 TF reveal or realistically 11 TF ish is around the max we could expect ??
Nothing wrong with calling fanboys out, they're the only ones who get asshurt when you make any claims that go against their wishes. I won't retract that statement. I would say it for any other fanboy of any other platform too. I've said Vega could be in the Xbox on multiple occasions but was never attacked for it even though it does sound unlikely.

As for 11Tflop, I would say that's my upper bound (11 Tflop is ~2070 performance right?), but I'm expecting closer to 2060/1080 performance if I'm honest.
 

Kolbe1894

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,159
Yea I noticed that .does that get added on top or it's already accounted for ? So 13 TF for ana and 6 TF for Lockhart or it doesnt get added on top. anexanhume , any input on this ??
Let's say it's real leak.
I think it's separated from 5.5/11TF flops, but like above said, is it enough for RT? also can this 1/2TF merge to GPU if a developer don't wanna use RT?

Anyway i personally don't see it's real because the leak also saying Microsoft mandate developers about next-gen games resolution, which seems against what they doing currently(more options and let people choose what they want).
Maybe the TF still close to real spec though.
 

Tappin Brews

#TeamThierry
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,869
There are no credible rumors that either MS or Sony is using Vega or any variant thereof. No insiders are indicating so. All claims to the contrary are speculation, and in the case of Sony, directly contradict public statements.

we have more rumors of zen 3 than we do of vega for xbox 2.

!
So, we are mere hours from possibly confirming a big sony leak that also said the ps5 is 11 to 12tf. The leak said death stranding date will be revealed in the end of may for an august launch. And this person leaked borderlands 3 reveal as well. We should know if his death stranding info is legit very soon.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/commen...game/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

another. lets go!

i'm so ready to be disappointed
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
If the whole rumor of Sony wanting to use Vega but changing it Navi is true , 2 things should be considered:

1. Navi was not developed for Sony or 70% of AMD engineers were not working with Sony R&D for Navi.

2. Sony wants a more powerful console .otherwise Vega would have been cheaper and the could have launched in 2019 and getting a 10 million lead on x2.

I don't think that rumour rules out the WCCFTech roadmap/reporting (1. above), in fact I think it can dovetail neatly with it.

Here's one timeline that makes sense of both. Speculation in italics:

Fall 2015 - work begins on PS5

2016 - AMD reveals roadmap with Navi on it, slated for 2018.

Between 2015 and 2017 - Sony works on a target of a Fall 2019 launch based on Vega (on the supposition that Navi would not be 'console ready' until a year after its first products, and perhaps too risky to pick at this point)

Late 2017 - Sony decides to move the release of PS5 to Fall 2020

(I don't believe they could have put the brakes on that target any later than that. They'd need at least 18 months of dev kits etc. to be out there. If Sony had waited longer than this, we'd have heard about this 'first version' of PS5)

In moving to 2020, Sony wanted something more than Vega, and more than the original Navi planned for 2018. AMD says OK - and decides, rather than releasing two new chips within a year, to delay Navi and make bigger changes than originally planned, to meet Sony's needs, while stretching Vega longer than initially planned.


Jun 2018 - WCCFTech reports Navi as a new microarchitecture, has been delayed a year (now due in H2 2019), that Su put 2/3 of their engineering talent behind it, and is being driven by Sony's timing and needs for PS5

In other words - I think that rumour can fit neatly with the WCCFTech reporting on the Navi roadmap and Sony's involvement, and might actually explain - at least partially - why Navi was delayed, the conflicting rumours about what it actually was etc.

I think the idea that Sony made a last minute switcharoo that's forcing them to use a 'Navi/Vega hybrid' does not make sense of anything of what we've heard to date. If Sony changed their plans from 2019 to 2020, it happened years ago.
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
That's fine but we have posters like Fruity basically saying Sony and AMD are lying as ps5 is Vega hybrid and not Navi .

Speculating is more than fine but crazy statement like that after we have facts should be avoided to derail the thread
Not according to some posts:
I call this an overreaction. IMO If you don't respond there is not derail by the typical back and forth following it. Such posts die in the sheer amount of comments posted here every day if you just let it rest.

Btw no pun intended to the member mentioned. I am guilty of some misinformed posts in the past too.
 
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