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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
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They won't be. Especially if they're $500.
I think having this gen of consoles really push the envelope is a good way to get people over the psychological bump of the price increase, which is basically necessary with more and more components like SSD being added into the BOM and inflation.
It's a lot easier to palate a price increase when you're getting a GPU and CPU that are very solid, and new stuff like the SSD.
If Sony and MS take a $100 loss at launch on hardware they have a $600 BOM to work with - I'm confident that we are going to get pretty spectacular machines for that, and that the first party devs will have very spectacular games to show off on them at launch.
I would characterize it as a refinement of the design philosophy of the PS4 and a direct response to its bottlenecks and shortcomings. It remains to be seen which will be the more defining shift, but I think the PS3 to PS4 improvement will be hard to top.
OMG yes. Loading up gifs for the PS5 reveal thread.
If Sony get their loading right it'll have a bigger impact on gaming than a few TFs
Moar speed....MOAR SPEED!!! jeez, i still can't comprehend the speed of these new ssd's.
Thanks again Colbert for your time to answer my questions..
Even if you are sceptical, the more i think about it, the more it makes sense to me.
It would fit a lot with what MS said about cloud dual purpose and their 2 sku approach.
*trapped in a dark room with Joel, after fighting on and off for hours, they are sweaty, bloody, the world burns outside around them, the finale of the game*
Cordy (protagonist): "There isn't mushroom in here for both of us."
Joel: ...
And the GOTY awards starting falling like snowflakes at Naughtydog HQ.
This post alleges RDNA is Super-SIMD
Pros:
Better yield
Potentially lower cost due to using desktop equivalent dies
Potentially higher thermal envelope
Cons:
Higher IO power to move data around
Interposer/package costs rise.
Pros:
Better yield
Potentially lower cost due to using desktop equivalent dies
Potentially higher thermal envelope
Cons:
Higher IO power to move data around
Interposer/package costs rise.
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Yep.
- SSD
- Ray tracing (Even if its limited to proper reflections, we will no longer have PuddleGate.
- Massive 5x CPU boost
- 8x GPU Boost (in terms of performance if not flops)
So yes, it's no exaggeration. It will be a massive boost. The 8x boost in GPU power alone can push some extremely photorealistc or CGi quality visuals as seen in the latest Unity and Unreal Engine demos. The ray tracing tech will help sell the realism by properly applying reflections and lighting. The CPU will increase number of NPCs, more realistic NPC and enemy behavior, better destruction and weather effects at the very least. No more dumb friendly A.I sneaking around in the last of us. Joel and Ellie teaming up like Captain America and Thor. Each reacting immediately to the other's moves.
And finally the ability to traverse environments faster than ever thanks to the SSD. You want to fly a Stormbird in Horizon? Go right ahead. You want a jet to fly at the speed of sound in GTA? No problem. Travel from Liberty City to Vice City? Why use fast travel when you can literally fly there in a minute? You want a superman game? A flash game? Now possible without any restrictions on speed. You can also have multiple characters fighting in different places at once and quickly cut between two encounters like in a Christopher Nolan movie. A few seconds of cutscene transitions should be enough to load an entirely different level into the RAM. Inception dream within a dream levels in a game.
I think you're overestimating the impact of an SSD here. Pop-in and speed traversal can be impacted by a low speed drive, but the CPU remains the biggest culprit in term of draw distances and assets loading, because of the heavy load.
As for 8 times a GPU boost... That remains to be seen and that'd be, imo, the most generous estimate. Keep also in mind that in the mean time, it'll also be about pushing higher resolution. 1080p to 4k is the biggest resolution leap since PS1 to PS2. We're still talking about a VEGA64 equivalent GPU in term of power.
This is classic Chris. Love it.
Good to see ya, Chris.
Good to see ya, Chris.
Oh damn.
You think the RAM bottleneck from the PS3/X360 era, and the (admittedly insane) x16 jump to 8 GB GDDR5 was/is more significant than everything else I listed? You don't think it's on par with the "8 GB GDDR5" announcement?
I mean, 24 GB (whether it be be GDDR6 or another configuration) is likely for next-gen consoles, that's enough of a leap in the RAM department and in combination with everything else... The leap ought to be bigger, no?
Reporter: Can we say anything about Renoir [a rumored APU combining Zen 2 technology and Vega GPU cores]? There have been reports that the project is dead.
Su: That is not true. It is doing well.
Drew Prairie, AMD spokesman: We might want to start with, we don't know what Renoir is.
Source
Impressive bit of back-tracking there.
Renoir was/is scheduled for 2020. Zen 3+Vega seems like a good Xbox candidate, no?
After all, we're all Vega stans here, aren't we?
Yeah, asked earlier since this was the first time I'd ever heard of Renoir. What's it supposed to be used for?
The PS5 patent show nearly no CPU workload for SSD usage read the patent explanation. They explain CPU is a major problem for exploiting NAND flash speed and they imagine a solution where the involvement of the CPU will be minimal.
Edit:It was one of the weakness they find in current SSD, too much CPU involvement, DRAM not performant enough replace by SRAM, allocation table not optimize for game and maximum read speed, add a special optilisied NAND flash file system and more.
It's not about the CPU impact from reading from the drive. It's about the computational impact of displaying more elements on screen and also the speed of loading them/hiding them fast enough.
It's been hard to keep up with all the news/speculation. Can someone post a summery on where both consoles might sit at or at least what sorta seems like realistic specs? If not its cool
i dont think they will be wasting 4x the gpu resources on rendering 4k natively. they will settle for checkerboarding but we have been here before.
vega 64 is 12.5 tflops. a 10 tflops Navi GPU should be able to match its performance. thats a 6.8x boost. a 10 tflops $399 console makes sense but with some vapor chamber cooling and a $499 price tag, they should be able to hit 11-12 tflops which should give us an 8x boost over the ps4.
As for rendering draw distances and loading assets, thats a fair point. After all, the spiderman SSD demo was just loading a PS4 game using the PS5 tech. As worlds get more and more detailed, GPU will probably struggle to render them at such fast speeds. Though one could argue that the devs could program around it, dial down the detail and the LOD when moving at such fast speeds. The christopher nolan style editing and switching scenes should still work with some quick transitions though.
And that's something that's is impossible for Sony to do? Because Sony can't or won't spend like $10-$20 extra on cooling if that will give them like 20% more performance at the start of a new gen?
If you have a GPU driven game engine like in Sebbbi 2015 SIGGRAPH presentation the CPU will have a low impact on rendering with few number of drawcall.
And the SSD is so fast they speak about tuning the queue management inside SSD to avoid micro stuttering because they speak about loading some element for a precise frame.
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Good to see you too... Things are looking positive for next gen.This is classic Chris. Love it.
Good to see ya, Chris.
Oh damn.
RDNA is still GCN based. It just sounds better than saying it's gen 6 GCN.
Lmao perfect.
I can't wait for this Vega theory to die. Why would MS use Vega when they know AMD's road map and know that Navi will be available?
Quite positive.
We will definitely need your quality gifs as we move forward.
That could be it. Anaconda could be the first server version of Navi with notably fp64, Int8 added. Maybe this is exactly what Arcturius is: First Server RDNA GPU. I still really don't see MS using an obsolete and broken GPU (Vega) to start a new gen.
I meant PSVR as a platform.
Let's say PSVR2 has a total of 4k pixels
The specs I listed will be a huge leap for that.
I can't believe people are arguing that vega 64 performance is a weak option for next gen.
That would occur if and only if there's any credence to that rumor that Sony helped develop Navi in exchange for exclusivity in the console space. I doubt it though.
That's what I said
But got some pushback... we'll see I guess.
One thread version ago, didn't we talk about how going with stuff that is "sever based" could hamper a console?
I think it's along the lines of people never hearing of vapor chambers prior to xbxX. They think it's beyond scope of just anyone rather than it being fairly simple tech.
These threads go around in circles .
From 8TF to CBR to what you talking about and more LMAO .
On the bright side not to long until more info from MS and AMD.
What are we gonna argue about, when we have the specs? This is my first time keeping up with upcoming console information, I usually relied on YouTube recaps.
But just to join in on the arguing
CB4K >>>native 4k
Full SSD >>> small SSD+HDD
Keep major ray tracing for mid gen refreshes and push rasta performance!
The rumor was silly then and it's even sillier now. That's why I think it's crazy that so many seem to entertain the idea.
Wrong tree or the right one?
GFX909 = Renoir Graphics (7nm (?) Vega Graphics).
*Renoir is Picasso's successor.
Software arguments, mainly hypothetical 3rd party moneyhats.
Random numbers and words.
What does this post mean exactly?
The bolded is what happens every generational shift since at least 1994. Whether you're right on the former is a bit early to tell. Shifting to desktop class CPUs is a pretty big paradigm shift in history of all consoles for one.
Eh, the PS4 has a CPU that is basically on par with PS3 CPU, if I understand correctly. That was a continued shortcoming.
I figured the PS3 to PS4 transition was the lowest compared to PS1 to PS2 and PS2 to PS3.
User Banned (permanent): troll account
There's alot of negative console hating Pc elitist which don't like the idea next gen consoles will have insanely fast performance and 7nm Ryzen / Navi Rdna tech with expensive ass custom chipsets including pcie 4.0 X570 based motherboards, and ultra fast pcie 4.0 nvme ssd drive's
If the entry level 5700 Navi matches 2070 then what the hell is everyone hating for i mean really just wait for 2020 when they release the Navi 5800 / 5900 series Navi cards which will beat 2080 / 2080ti
The only console which might use the 5700 will be xbox Lockhart while Anaconda / ps5 will be using the bigger 5800 / 5900 based chips so yea next consoles will be amazing and that's all i gotta say as Lockhart will outperform 2070 Pc while ps5 will beat 2080 pc while Anaconda will beat 2080ti pc and also console Gpu will be custom made with ray tracing baked and other features which won't be available on pc versions of the 5700 / 5800 as only the Navi 20 based 3800xt / 3900xt will have ray tracing but the consoles will all have those features baked into their custom chips
I think that's all pretty damn impressive considering Lockhart will be 399 with ps5 499 and Anaconda 599
Also these systems will use 3700x Cpu 3.6ghz and those are Zen 2 only 8 core cpu with 16 threads so for sure next console will use custom variant of 3700x that's impressive people as these will be very high performance systems which cannot be matched by mid range pc as ye will have to spend at least three times the price at retail to put together pc to match ps5 / Anaconda so i not sure why so many people pretending these aren't gonna be awesome systems
I think the people being negative or downplaying the consoles are just trolling all console gamers cause their jealous that peasents will get awesome console machines with amazing graphics and high performance never seen before on consoles until next generation
PRICE CONCERNS :
To those saying it's impossible for next Gen consoles to be affordable while packing in this insane level tech i wanna clear up your confusion as you're very wrong, and that's because the Truth is Sony & Microsoft pay only around 30 to 40% of what Pc gamers pay at Retail consumer pricing, and so for example 1500 dollars worth of high end Pc parts for a Pc gamer will only cost Sony & Microsoft between 500 to 600 dollars max, and they'll be subsidizing the manufacturing costs next Gen, and selling their consoles at a loss per unit so for example a $599 dollar Xbox Anaconda will have about $1700 dollars worth of Pc performance but cost Microsoft only 700 to manufacture, and so they lose 100 dollars per unit but they've got a console which will have ultra high end Pc performance.....
Basically next Gen consoles will cost Pc gamers at least 3X the price to build a Pc to compete🔥
They might even sell the next Gen systems at more than a 100 dollar loss per unit as for example Ps3 sold for a 240 dollar loss per console at launch, and Xbox 360 sold for a 134 dollar loss per unit, and so basically it's a sure thing ps5 will have at least 1500 to 1600 dollars worth of ultra high end Pc parts, and Xbox Anaconda will have about 1700 to 1800 dollars worth of ultra high end Pc parts🔥
If the entry level 5700 Navi matches 2070 then what the hell is everyone hating for i mean really just wait for 2020 when they release the Navi 5800 / 5900 series Navi cards which will beat 2080 / 2080ti
The only console which might use the 5700 will be xbox Lockhart while Anaconda / ps5 will be using the bigger 5800 / 5900 based chips so yea next consoles will be amazing and that's all i gotta say as Lockhart will outperform 2070 Pc while ps5 will beat 2080 pc while Anaconda will beat 2080ti pc and also console Gpu will be custom made with ray tracing baked and other features which won't be available on pc versions of the 5700 / 5800 as only the Navi 20 based 3800xt / 3900xt will have ray tracing but the consoles will all have those features baked into their custom chips
I think that's all pretty damn impressive considering Lockhart will be 399 with ps5 499 and Anaconda 599
Also these systems will use 3700x Cpu 3.6ghz and those are Zen 2 only 8 core cpu with 16 threads so for sure next console will use custom variant of 3700x that's impressive people as these will be very high performance systems which cannot be matched by mid range pc as ye will have to spend at least three times the price at retail to put together pc to match ps5 / Anaconda so i not sure why so many people pretending these aren't gonna be awesome systems
I think the people being negative or downplaying the consoles are just trolling all console gamers cause their jealous that peasents will get awesome console machines with amazing graphics and high performance never seen before on consoles until next generation
PRICE CONCERNS :
To those saying it's impossible for next Gen consoles to be affordable while packing in this insane level tech i wanna clear up your confusion as you're very wrong, and that's because the Truth is Sony & Microsoft pay only around 30 to 40% of what Pc gamers pay at Retail consumer pricing, and so for example 1500 dollars worth of high end Pc parts for a Pc gamer will only cost Sony & Microsoft between 500 to 600 dollars max, and they'll be subsidizing the manufacturing costs next Gen, and selling their consoles at a loss per unit so for example a $599 dollar Xbox Anaconda will have about $1700 dollars worth of Pc performance but cost Microsoft only 700 to manufacture, and so they lose 100 dollars per unit but they've got a console which will have ultra high end Pc performance.....
Basically next Gen consoles will cost Pc gamers at least 3X the price to build a Pc to compete🔥
They might even sell the next Gen systems at more than a 100 dollar loss per unit as for example Ps3 sold for a 240 dollar loss per console at launch, and Xbox 360 sold for a 134 dollar loss per unit, and so basically it's a sure thing ps5 will have at least 1500 to 1600 dollars worth of ultra high end Pc parts, and Xbox Anaconda will have about 1700 to 1800 dollars worth of ultra high end Pc parts🔥
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