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Overall maximum teraflops for next-gen launch consoles?

  • 8 teraflops

    Votes: 43 1.9%
  • 9 teraflops

    Votes: 56 2.4%
  • 12 teraflops

    Votes: 978 42.5%
  • 14 teraflops

    Votes: 525 22.8%
  • Team ALL THE WAY UP +14 teraflops

    Votes: 491 21.3%
  • 10 teraflops (because for some reason I put 9 instead of 10)

    Votes: 208 9.0%

  • Total voters
    2,301
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Nov 12, 2017
2,877
the smart thing is the impact from MS announcing Scarlett in this E3 will be lowered significantly because they will just hear similar things to what the PS5 has "what are you bringing that is new to table, PS5 is already doing all those things".
I think they will say "the most powerful console" again...showing some next gen trailer ..and on the PR side is all pretty and done...mass market don't know the difference between soldered nvme ...nvme ..or ssd
From what hmqgg said ms could have gpu decompression too
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
I am pretty sure someone photoshopped the date because i cannot find this post.
There was also the pastebin leak from ~November iirc which had some PS5 specs like flash storage (possible secret sauce), SSD, Navi etc but it also had some unrealistic claims like GTA6 in 2020 and he also claimed to have heard news of private dealings between Sony and Rockstar. It didn't sound legit because he also claimed to be a small dev in Europe so how on earth we he know that stuff.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
There was also the pastebin leak from ~November iirc which had some PS5 specs like flash storage (possible secret sauce), SSD, Navi etc but it also had some unrealistic claims like GTA6 in 2020 and he also claimed to have heard news of private dealings between Sony and Rockstar. It didn't sound legit because he also claimed to be a small dev in Europe so how on earth we he know that stuff.
U know sometimes they lie and add bullshit to hide their trace for their job safety.so say they put 70% of actual leak and 30% complete bullshit to not raise eyebrows by Sony ninjas haha
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
U know sometimes they lie and add bullshit to hide their trace for their job safety.so say they put 70% of actual leak and 30% complete bullshit to not raise eyebrows by Sony ninjas haha
True, but its pastebin and posting non-detailed specs won't raise any eyebrows and how could he possibly be identified through that anyway. The specs I find more believable are the ones which have codenames and stuff which is why I believed the "64 Arcturus engines" leak to be true (even if it wasn't an next gen console at all).

Also don't forget that there are probably 1000s of other "leaks" out there that aren't getting any attention because they've already been disproved. Right now we're focusing on these leaks which talk about the inclusion of an SSD in the PS5 because it's been verified. It could have just been wishful thinking for all we know and it happened to come true even if all the other specs are unverified. It's like that weird octopus which predicted all the world cup results a few years back. Most of these leaks are probably just luck and coincidence lol.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Guys back to the Sony meeting guy that leaked the specs 2 days after wired interview .

He said ps5 is 12.9 with gpu clocked at 1.8ghz .in the past day I keep seeing you guys keep mentioning 1.8ghz as though something was leaked and shows 1.8 is possible .

At that time we dismissed 12.9 due to extremely high gpu clock .what happened why is most predictions for ps5 is now back at 1.8 GHz ?

And if 1.8 somehow turned out to be correct doesn't that give more credibility to 12.9 TF rumor?
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,844
Guys back to the Sony meeting guy that leaked the specs 2 days after wired interview .

He said ps5 is 12.9 with gpu clocked at 1.8ghz .in the past day I keep seeing you guys keep mentioning 1.8ghz as though something was leaked and shows 1.8 is possible .

At that time we dismissed 12.9 due to extremely high gpu clock .what happened why is most predictions for ps5 is now back at 1.8 GHz ?

And if 1.8 somehow turned out to be correct doesn't that give more credibility to 12.9 TF rumor?
1.8ghz was the speculation since early april when gonzalo has been updated with 1.8ghz gpu clock.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
Don't think the PS5 is confirmed at 1.8Ghz.

Also his post was a few days after Eurogamer's Gonzalo article, so that might be where he got his numbers.
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
2,597
Guys back to the Sony meeting guy that leaked the specs 2 days after wired interview .

He said ps5 is 12.9 with gpu clocked at 1.8ghz .in the past day I keep seeing you guys keep mentioning 1.8ghz as though something was leaked and shows 1.8 is possible .

At that time we dismissed 12.9 due to extremely high gpu clock .what happened why is most predictions for ps5 is now back at 1.8 GHz ?

And if 1.8 somehow turned out to be correct doesn't that give more credibility to 12.9 TF rumor?

The photos and timing of that leak... I want to believe though 12.9TF seems very optimistic.
 

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,631
I'm a bit out of it, are we expecting Microsoft to unveil the new Xbox this E3 or will that be saved for a reveal event next year?
 

M4xim1l1ano

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,094
Santiago, Stockholm, Vienna
I expect some generic info but for sure not official presentation as in past presentations were in the same year as console premiere

I am expecting something similar to the Project Scorpio trailer and some "design philosophy" clips. Perhaps we see a prototype of the case but no specs yet until later this year (if it will be possible for MS to hide them so long)
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
2017: Sony acknowledges concern that they announce games far ahead of time. Vows to do better.

2019: Sony announces the PlayStation 5 one and a half years ahead of release.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,904
Its funny t me that you guys think building on an already existing engine for 3yrs is being rushed.

They have the groundwork of the world built, they have all the systems of the robots in place, have all the assets in place. All they have to do is build on what is already their to the standards of what will be considered next gen.

The last game took them 6 years to make, but that was because they were building out their engine at the same time and building all the assets(eg robot AI) and word systems. There is a great deal of work they simply don't have to d now and only iterate on.

I will personally be shocked if we don't see horizon in 2020 or latest 2021.
I think it is more about the time it will take to do new stuff. Yeah, they have a foundation but if they do the kind of stuff I want to see (like completely reworking the melee system, implementing new traversal, etc...), it will still take time. If it was just improving upon everything we already have, sure, I would say launch title.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,844
2017: Sony acknowledges concern that they announce games far ahead of time. Vows to do better.

2019: Sony announces the PlayStation 5 one and a half years ahead of release.
You all still have yet to learn of sonys next gen troll tactics
2013: Sony: "we like to let our competitors show their hand first"
Sony 2 weeks later: sends playstation meeting invites.
Whenever next gen comes they like to troll, and it works for them very well.
Heck, revealing the details of their next gen console on an outside article on a random tuesday! They are always very unpredictable when it comes to next gen.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
Nope.

Within each CU, GCN used to have 4x SIMD Vector Units (16 wide) and a 64 thread HW scheduler that assigns a wavefront to only one SIMD-VU per clock cycle.

This Navi leak says they doubled the SIMD-VU vector wide, so 32 wide, with a 32 thread HW schedule that assigns a single SIMD-VU per clock.

So previously it takes 4 clock cycles to feed all SIMD-VU with data, whereas now it only takes 2 clock cycles.

The leak also adds that the Shader Engines have been doubled from 4 to 8, so doubling the geometry throughput (because each SE has 1 geometry processor) and helping with higher overall utilisation.

The leak doesn't mention:
  • Number of CUs per SE
  • Wavefront instruction buffer queue depth
  • Number of threads per wavefront (though would guess 32)

The deleted Komachi tweet did say 5 CUs per SE.
 

Hoo-doo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,292
The Netherlands
We have absolutely no idea what MS will be focusing on at their E3 conference though. Sony's next gen marketing seems to be faster loading times. Microsoft's might be 4K 60 fps. That would be a colossal marketing advantage in it's own way. But we just don't know what they'll show anyway.

Having an ultra-fast custom SSD solution goes far beyond 'faster load times'.

You'd know this with the most basic of videogame knowledge or even reading this thread for a few pages, so why do you continue to try and steer the narrative?
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
Having an ultra-fast custom SSD solution goes far beyond 'faster load times'.

You'd know this with the most basic of videogame knowledge or even reading this thread for a few pages, so why do you continue to try and steer the narrative?
Wow, that's a really bad faith way of approaching that comment. There's no responsibility to go through every one of the "advantages of x hardware decision" every time we mention it. Yeesh, let's stay on track.

The point is you have to EXPLAIN why we should care about your buzzwords. SSD is awesome, but Sony talking about texture streaming on stage may not really be the most exciting, immediately understandable thing. Faster loading times is. And that will be the one thing that everyone playing will definitely notice. But, Sony has 100% NOT covered all the buzzwords. MS and Sony will essentially create buzzwords for their marketing. Let's not kid ourselves. TFlops weren't a marketing point until MS made it one, and now we treat it like the average consumer knew what that meant or cared about it at all 10 years ago.

Even in things that MS has already been doing, like in AI, machine learning, cloud, accessibility, etc. there's plenty to talk about. And I have no doubt that the really exciting things from Sony and MS haven't even been hinted at yet. Sony made a preemptive strike for sure, but at this point, we still don't even know what MS's E3 will look like. There's a not-insignificant chance next gen is never mentioned (or barely discussed) on stage.
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
2,597
I wonder if there will be SAD versions of both consoles without disc drives? Maybe at a slight price reduction?

I know I've gone pretty much all digital towards the end of the PS4 - if I can get a slightly cheaper console, and maybe a slightly smaller one, without a disc I would be all over that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,849
Sony is being really smart..

They knew Microsoft will probably announce SSD on E3 so they made preemptive strike and took the spotlight for now. When Microsoft announce SSD in new Xbox on E3 it won't be so exciting and people will know Sony "did it first". Very smart moves from Sony and Mark Cerny
Lol sensible chuckle

No, all they did was set the expectations for the next Xbox. People will be breathing sighs of relief if Microsoft announces an SSD. If they don't however, then it's going to get messy.
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
Having an ultra-fast custom SSD solution goes far beyond 'faster load times'.

You'd know this with the most basic of videogame knowledge or even reading this thread for a few pages, so why do you continue to try and steer the narrative?
All of Sony's marketing so far has been about the reduction of loading times. That's Sony doing that, not me.

As for your secret sauce, if you have actually been reading the last few pages you would have seen my post questioning whether developers will take advantage of it and alienate the 10s of millions of PC gamers who don't have a "ultra-fast custom SSD solution". I'm not steering the narrative I'm applying basic logic. The industry is always defined by the baseline (which was PS4 and XB1 this gen). The best we can expect from this in multiplats would be faster loading times and less pop-in. Do you not agree or do you think devs will completely blow off all other platforms and design their games around tech possibly no other platform will have?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,849
I wonder if there will be SAD versions of both consoles without disc drives? Maybe at a slight price reduction?

I know I've gone pretty much all digital towards the end of the PS4 - if I can get a slightly cheaper console, and maybe a slightly smaller one, without a disc I would be all over that.
I will get a discless version. All digital for nearly 6 years now
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
I think it is more about the time it will take to do new stuff. Yeah, they have a foundation but if they do the kind of stuff I want to see (like completely reworking the melee system, implementing new traversal, etc...), it will still take time. If it was just improving upon everything we already have, sure, I would say launch title.
Yh I get what you mean. I still think 3.5yrs is time enough though. But that remains to be seen. Especially considering GoT could very well be a launch title for the PS5 albeit cross gen. which could let them push H2 to 2021 giving it just over 4yrs dev time.

Spill your guts...... give us everything!!!!
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
2,597
The best we can expect from this in multiplats would be faster loading times and less pop-in. Do you not agree or do you think devs will completely blow off all other platforms and design their games around tech possibly no other platform will have?

I think that is the minimum we should expect.

And wouldn't that just give Sony exclusives even more of an edge - they will be able to do things that other games simply cannot if they do not take advantage of the SSD bandwidth.

I think it's fun to predict TF but I do kinda agree that the new beefy CPU and SSD are game changers for the next gen. And it shows what Cerny said about listening to developers - they ask them what limits them which most certainly said the slow HDD and weak CPU.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,844
Also the article the tweet links to mentions Jun Takeuchi from Capcom and Katsuhiro Harada from Bandai Namco (Tekken) were also interviewed about next gen. interested to see what they say when the famitsu magazine gets published.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
All of Sony's marketing so far has been about the reduction of loading times. That's Sony doing that, not me.

As for your secret sauce, if you have actually been reading the last few pages you would have seen my post questioning whether developers will take advantage of it and alienate the 10s of millions of PC gamers who don't have a "ultra-fast custom SSD solution". I'm not steering the narrative I'm applying basic logic. The industry is always defined by the baseline (which was PS4 and XB1 this gen). The best we can expect from this in multiplats would be faster loading times and less pop-in. Do you not agree or do you think devs will completely blow off all other platforms and design their games around tech possibly no other platform will have?
And your mistake there is that you think the baseline is set by PC gamers. It's not. The sooner you accept this the better.

A publisher or dev makes a game, that game gets like 80%+ of all its sales on the consoles.... who do you think is more important t that publisher? And what makes you think that a feature like better loading will be an on or off type thing? It could very well be something that is scalable and your mileage will vary based on what kinda hardware you have.

And this "tech" is really nothing more than PCIe gen 4. It's not some sort of secret sauce. Its baked right into the ryzen spec. Anyways I think you are talking up an issue that is not even there. An if its there, you are underselling the importance of it.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,885
I imagine that such a move would come accompanied by deeper wavefront queues and smarter scheduling. As you said, 4K and more mixed compute might be enough to keep it fed.
It's hard to make any conclusions without knowing the details. But off the bat wider SIMDs will mean less peak throughput utilization, less control logic but potentially more SIMDs in the same die area. This could be the right move for a closed console system which can be thoroughly optimized for in s/w, not so much for general usage in PC and server space. Then it's also possible that we're not looking at wider SIMDs here but at that VLIW2 patent being implemented into Navi's SIMDs which will result in a heap of totally other things really.

I also imagine that faster cycles, coupled with something like the variable wavefront sizing and a deep, self-feeding queue might do quite a bit to enhance compute RT.
There are only two things which will be able to "enhance compute RT": better caches and more compute throughput. Both are somewhat expected from any new architecture without any RT perspective. Both won't be enough to make RT widely usable on next gen consoles.
 

'V'

Banned
May 19, 2018
772
I think that is the minimum we should expect.

And wouldn't that just give Sony exclusives even more of an edge - they will be able to do things that other games simply cannot if they do not take advantage of the SSD bandwidth.

I think it's fun to predict TF but I do kinda agree that the new beefy CPU and SSD are game changers for the next gen. And it shows what Cerny said about listening to developers - they ask them what limits them which most certainly said the slow HDD and weak CPU.
It most certainly would give PS 1st party exclusives a big edge and something they can use in their marketing (which they've already started doing as we can see). In the wider market I can't see 3rd party devs taking full advantage of it. It'll probably be another CELL situation but this time it won't be detrimental.
 

SlothmanAllen

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,834
Good Hairday!
EA DICE next gen tech demo ... even better hair than mine in reality LOL... Sound is good as well...



Okay, so hear me out...

The name of the game is Catwalk Massacre. You play as a robot who is a runway model of the future. The game uses that fancy hair tech, and the player is given style points each walk. The player can use and chain various moves to get style combos. Early Access for $19.99 with some promised features that will never make it into the game.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
Okay, so hear me out...

The name of the game is Catwalk Massacre. You play as a robot who is a runway model of the future. The game uses that fancy hair tech, and the player is given style points each walk. The player can use and chain various moves to get style combos. Early Access for $19.99 with some promised features that will never make it into the game.
I assume the massacre comes in at the part where you realize everyone is just a mannequin and the metaphorically cutthroat nature of the business of fashion just became a bit more real. So then you murder everyone Hitman-puppet style. Seriously though, when the model turned around in that video, it was like a mini jump scare...

But yes, glad hair is getting better :p. We can finally get that next gen barber simulation game we've all obviously wanted forever.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
From fuboi(B3D) very interesting from the customized SSD. I think it is a good solution this is use in datacenter. It means simpler and cheaper NAND controller, less consumption from the controller and better performance too.

http://lightnvm.io/

I/O Isolation
Enable I/O isolation between tenants by allocating your SSD into separate parallel units.

Predictable Latency
No more guessing when an IO completes. You know which parallel unit is accessed on disk.

Non-Volatile Memory
Manage your non-volatile memory as a block device, through a file-system or inside your application.

https://openchannelssd.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

This is available on FreeBSD the base used for PS5 OS

fuboi B3D said:
Summary: Remove the intelligent controller, expose the raw flash channels to the OS. "Software defined flash storage". Similar to removing an "intelligent" RAID controller and passing the disks to the OS. The OS/app knows better than the (RAID or flash) controller what it's doing with the data. A database might prefer to know about the disk/flash topology instead of being presented a flat flash/RAID device of unknown properties.

Cons: you're now responsible for wear leveling and all the other fun stuffs the controller was doing.
Pros: Control. Possibly price, your "controller" is now as stupid as possible.

A standard physical format 4x PCIe 4.0 M.2 with a "cheaper" controller might be the way to have your cake and eat it too: a standard physical and software interface for price, a 100% custom interface between your flash channels and your app/game for outstanding performance.

Or frankly, just dgaf and use it in FreeBSD NVMe normal mode. The pain of having a new API for storage access sounds stupid, FreeBSD has enough storage APIs as it is. And I'd venture the difference from NVMe to OpenChannelSSD is a small step compared to the generational change of going from 5400rpm lowest bidder HD to a PCIe 4.0 lowest bidder NVMe.

For wear leveling, this already done by the library. This is used in datacenter and made as a standard by NVMe consortium:



EDIT: Specification from 2018
http://lightnvm.io/docs/OCSSD-2_0-20180129.pdf
 
Last edited:
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