Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE

[bcatwilly]

This is a really interesting talk (for those into geeky tech stuff) by Microsoft last fall about DirectML doing something similar to the Nvidia DLSS, including a brief demo of Forza Horizon running at 1080p and very cleanly upscaled to 4K using a "super resolution" maching learning algorithm - http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/si...-gpu-inferencing-directml-and-directx-12.html. I think that things like this are likely one of the ways to deal with both the Lockhart and Anaconda SKUs and even upscaling to 8K for example (yeah I know that 8K is a joke for multiple years at least).

 

[Pheonix]

But the thing is this, these developers, especially third party developers have a target spec for PC's that is usually lower end compared to consoles.

Put another way, if Sony had gone the route Mark Cerny had stated and gone for an 8TF console, would developers be chasing CB4K? They chase it because that is an option that they have, and on the PS4 Pro it is the only option that they can target at higher res

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Sorry but no. Devs and publishers will target where they make the most money. Primarily. And that just happens to be consoles. The spec of hardware in the PC space today already exceeds what we will see in consoles next gen, and the tech that will drive the next generation of games are already there, but you will not see games being designed to fully support that tech until the next gen consoles come around again. Thats how it always is. PCs just show you what will happen if you are running this games at either a higher or lower spec...thats why PC games give you recommended specs.

Checkerboarding on the Pro is just what was needed to get "PS4" games as close to 4K as they could.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

I think you're severely discounting the amount of work MS engineers do with hardware GPU vendors, AR and VR companies, their Surface line, their ProSumer products, their data center capabilities, the fact that they're one of an extremely small number of companies in the world laying underwater cross continental data cables and not to mention the sheer number of patents they have year over year in the computing, graphics, and hardware space. Sure they just "evolve" and never innovate...

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I'm certain that people in in every aspect of the business work hard. Bringing any new product to market is a huge endeavour.

What are the innovations we'll see specifically with Anaconda?

Will we see anything new or more of the same?

No one seems willing to suggest anything that could be or is being done but are very keen to talk about things in the past.

I thought this was a next gen speculation thread, not a corporate highlights reel.

 

[Expy]

Who's talking about consumers decisions?
We are talking about hardware here.
Reading much?

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Why should the hardware be better if not for making it more appealing to consumers?

 

[Luckydog]

If the rumours on Lockheart are true, I would be more inclined to think MS is pushing the lower spec. next-gen console to intentionally appease publishers by artificially reducing the minimum development target so as to stymie the jump in development costs that's associated with each generational transition.

I mean, many devs are already limited by dev time and budgets already this gen, so another huge jump in visual fidelity raising gamer expectations can leave many smaller pubs and developers unable to keep up.

I don't believe it, but I do think there's an element of hesitation among publishers regarding dev cost increases with each generation, and with the mtx & lootbox cash cow on its last legs, many of the huge publically traded AAA publishers aren't going to be happy about any significant increase in dev costs eating into their profit margin growth (and thus company valuation).

By forcing a more modest upgrade from this gen to next, MS can maintain a performance baseline that publishers will be more amenable to.

...or so the speculation goes.

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This sounds strangely like the rationale at the start of this gen that publishers were pushing for and would love all digital to kill used games and keep them making money. Supposedly MS was leading the charge, Sony would do it too, and publishers would be happy. Then MS was left standing all alone and now most publishers prefer the PS4. I Hope MS is not trying to guess what else publishers like and just focuses singularly on a powerful, easy to develop for box that is as cheap as possible. Xcloud should be a side bonus, media should be a side bonus. I also think they should kill the two SKU idea and do it later as a side bonus. Simplify their message. Worlds most powerful console (if it is) that plays games the best and cheapest.

 

[Detective]

I'm certain that people in in every aspect of the business work hard. Bringing any new product to market is a huge endeavour.

What are the innovations we'll see specifically with Anaconda?

Will we see anything new or more of the same?

No one seems willing to suggest anything that could be or is being done but are very keen to talk about things in the past.

I thought this is a next speculation thread, not a corporate highlights reel.

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How would people know what you are asking when most of the parts in next gen hardware hasn't been revealed yet by its vendors?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Sorry but no. Devs and publishers will target where they make the most money. Primarily. And that just happens to be consoles. The spec of hardware in the PC space today already exceeds what we will see in consoles next gen, and the tech that will drive the next generation of games are already there, but you will not see games being designed to fully support that tech until the next gen consoles come around again. Thats how it always is. PCs just show you what will happen if you are running this games at either a higher or lower spec...thats why PC games give you recommended specs.

Checkerboarding on the Pro is just what was needed to get "PS4" games as close to 4K as they could.

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This is correct .
Devs will never target the high end only cause it don't have the user base to support current AAA games.
People talk about games scaling to hardware but truth is we will never since what get cut down from games .

 

[Lagspike_exe]

It doesn't matter how powerful the consoles are. There will always be something you can do with ~40% of your GPU that's better than wasting it on native 4K. Better visuals, 60fps, etc. That will remain the case until we have photo-realistic 4K visuals at 120fps.

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This.
And temporal reconstruction CBR will look even better at 60 FPS due to less artifacts so it's a great trade off.

 

[Alandring]

Will Lockhart and Anaconda always be on the market or do they discontinue Lockhart quickly if Anaconda is the main SKU?

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No, I think Lockhart will remain as long as the price difference is as important (at least $100). Maybe Anaconda will be discontinue if Microsoft launch a Xbox One X-like three or four years after.

Yes. And it will most likely be the least selling SKU (by a good margin) next-gen.

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If there is a big price gap between Lockhart and Anaconda and if Lockhart is really cheaper than PlayStation 5, Anaconda will be the best selling SKU by a huge margin. Many of us would choose the most powerful console, but the mass market will ever choose the cheapest.

 

[Detective]

Why should the hardware be better if not for making it more appealing to consumers?

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You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

This is a hardware thread, we were talking about hardware. No one mentioned any consumers decisions. Wanna discuss who's buying what I suggest you make a thread about it.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

This is a hardware thread, we were talking about hardware. No one mentioned any consumers decisions. Wanna discuss who's buying what I suggest you make a thread about it.

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This is next gen thread and it's not only about hardware .
Truth is people in here talk about many more things than just hardware when it comes to next gen .
Been that way since the thread was on GAF .

 

[Kage Maru]

Sigh no. Horizon 4 is designed around the limitations of a 1.3 tflops gpu. Don't believe marketing buzzwords like lead platform.

A 6 tflops gpu can do so much more than what we saw out of horizon.

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Tesselation has up to 10x the fidelity, twice the resolution on reflections, headlights cast shadows, more samples in motion blur, improved AO, improved shadows, improved textures (up to 2x), improved foliage density by 50%, and more while pushing 4 times the number of pixels. They even added a 60fps mode, something some thought, including me, would be impossible.

There are far more reasons to believe the lead engineer that 1X was the lead than to assume it's just marketing speak.

He's basically saying Jack of all trades master of none. And all the things you mentioned didn't happen at the same time.

He is basically saying its one thing to focus entirely on one device and make that device the best thing it can be and another to focus on two devices simultaneously.

I am not saying that that is what is going to happen, but its a fair observation.

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He's saying a load of crap. A less powerful but more refined/efficient playstation with a slightly more powerful Xbox lumped together with less finesse sounds a lot like the same crap people were saying about the Pro and 1X and we know what happened there.

His post has no basis in reality or any merit to what these two companies are shooting for.

 

[StraightToHell]

you do realize it will be easier for devs to "Realize their vision" if they will have more headroom for graphics tech, and that checkerboarding saves around 40% GPU power to enable that right? the higher the resolution => the less complexity of game graphics are possible => less of an abillity to create what the developers want and have to cut more technical features taht could have helped that vision.

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In theory, yes. But it's worth remembering the uncanny valley graph. We're at a point with many features where a massive jump in performance is needed to deliver a noticeable difference to the end user. Such as number of light samples & bounces, shadow resolutions, etc. And many graphical features we do have are scaleable in real time in order to maintain framerate. Pumping power into framerate and resolution may be the best solution for many titles to produce the best possible results. We also know that many games don't render every buffer at native resolutions.

Maybe the takeaway here is that developers will choose the best solutions for their own titles, and approaches will evolve over the time.

 

[AegonSnake]

Native 4k is such a waste of resources.

Here is the Unity GDC 2019 demo running at 1440p. It looks a generation ahead of any native 4k game on the X1X.



if devs are forced to limit the fidelity of a base 1080p image just for a 6-8 tflops Lockheart, the Anaconda version will be limited by it. Sure you will get native 4k on the 14 tflops console, but the overall fidelity will be the same as the 1080p image.

Meanwhile, Sony devs will be designing their console around a 12.9 tflops GPU fulling taking advantage of the GPU without limiting themselves to a base spec. Sure they will likely settle for 1440p or 4kcb but they will be able to pack in more effects, more physics, more simulations, more characters, more everything.

 

[Detective]

This is next gen thread and it's not only about hardware .
Truth is people in here talk about many more things than just hardware when it comes to next gen .
Been that way since the thread was on GAF .

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I was talking about my post.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I was talking about my post.

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Okay sorry about that .

 

[bcatwilly]

I'm certain that people in in every aspect of the business work hard. Bringing any new product to market is a huge endeavour.

What are the innovations we'll see specifically with Anaconda?

Will we see anything new or more of the same?

No one seems willing to suggest anything that could be or is being done but are very keen to talk about things in the past.

I thought this was a next speculation thread, not a corporate highlights reel.

Click to shrink...

I have noted several times just today in this thread that I think Microsoft could very well leverage their AI innovation at a local hardware customization level in the next gen Xbox consoles, and they may even provide some interesting "cloud enabled" AI support for games for those developers who would choose to use it for certain applications.

 

[Sekiro]

Native 4k is such a waste of resources.

Here is the Unity GDC 2019 demo running at 1440p. It looks a generation ahead of any native 4k game on the X1X.



if devs are forced to limit the fidelity of a base 1080p image just for a 6-8 tflops Lockheart, the Anaconda version will be limited by it. Sure you will get native 4k on the 14 tflops console, but the overall fidelity will be the same as the 1080p image.

Meanwhile, Sony devs will be designing their console around a 12.9 tflops GPU fulling taking advantage of the GPU without limiting themselves to a base spec. Sure they will likely settle for 1440p or 4kcb but they will be able to pack in more effects, more physics, more simulations, more characters, more everything.

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What graphics card was that Unity demo running on?

Couldn't find that info anywhere.

 

[bsigg]

Native 4k is such a waste of resources.

Here is the Unity GDC 2019 demo running at 1440p. It looks a generation ahead of any native 4k game on the X1X.



if devs are forced to limit the fidelity of a base 1080p image just for a 6-8 tflops Lockheart, the Anaconda version will be limited by it. Sure you will get native 4k on the 14 tflops console, but the overall fidelity will be the same as the 1080p image.

Meanwhile, Sony devs will be designing their console around a 12.9 tflops GPU fulling taking advantage of the GPU without limiting themselves to a base spec. Sure they will likely settle for 1440p or 4kcb but they will be able to pack in more effects, more physics, more simulations, more characters, more everything.

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Tech demos are the worst thing to try and make comparisons to.

What graphics card was that Unity demo running on?

Couldn't find that info anywhere.

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They didn't say

Unity's award-winning Demo team, the creators of Adam and Book of the Dead, is working on a new short film called The Heretic. It's a real-time cinematic running at 30 fps at 1440p on a consumer-class desktop PC.

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[Hudsoniscool]

Sigh no. Horizon 4 is designed around the limitations of a 1.3 tflops gpu. Don't believe marketing buzzwords like lead platform.

A 6 tflops gpu can do so much more than what we saw out of horizon.

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I think I trust the devs more than you on this. forza horizon 4 looks amazing, one of the best looking games this gen. The 1.3tfs isn't holding it back graphically, native 4K is what held it back from looking better.

 

[Detective]

Okay sorry about that .

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I know it's easy to drift away on these threads :)

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I think I trust the devs more than you on this. forza horizon 4 looks amazing, one of the best looking games this gen. The 1.3tfs isn't holding it back graphically, native 4K is what held it back from looking better.

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If it's anything it would be the CPU that holding things back more than the GPU.

 

[WhtR88t]

Native 4k is such a waste of resources.

Here is the Unity GDC 2019 demo running at 1440p. It looks a generation ahead of any native 4k game on the X1X.



if devs are forced to limit the fidelity of a base 1080p image just for a 6-8 tflops Lockheart, the Anaconda version will be limited by it. Sure you will get native 4k on the 14 tflops console, but the overall fidelity will be the same as the 1080p image.

Meanwhile, Sony devs will be designing their console around a 12.9 tflops GPU fulling taking advantage of the GPU without limiting themselves to a base spec. Sure they will likely settle for 1440p or 4kcb but they will be able to pack in more effects, more physics, more simulations, more characters, more everything.

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Completely agree with this and is exactly how I imagine things playing out if Scarlet really is 6tf- basically all of Microsoft's exclusives and any 3rd party cross platform games will be designed around 6tf and scaling up resolution and frame rate (possibly with a few other graphical/rendering effect settings turned on) for more powerful hardware.

I hope we're all misunderstanding their intent with Scarlet- crossing my fingers that it really is the streaming box and not necessarily intended to render things locally.

 

[AegonSnake]

I think I trust the devs more than you on this. forza horizon 4 looks amazing, one of the best looking games this gen. The 1.3tfs isn't holding it back graphically, native 4K is what held it back from looking better.

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is that my entire point though? the guy i was replying to was making an argument saying that Lockheart wont hold back Anaconda. But if we look at Horizon 4, they just up ressed to native 4k and called it a day. Because at the end of they days, devs will not create two different versions of the same game. it's why Anthem on PC looks nothing like the E3 2017 demo. Sure it has better graphics settings than the console versions like better textures, better foliage quality, better AO, AF, AA, whatever, but it still doesnt come close to the Anthem they first showed.

That's exactly what happened with Horizon 4. There was a poster who replied to me just now and listed all these improvements like foliage density and texture quality, but both versions still look virtually identical and will pale in comparison to next gen racing games. And thats exactly whats going to happen next gen with the Anaconda. Devs will treat it like a fancy high end PC, but it will not be an entirely different version of the game.

 

[gremlinz1982]

Sorry but no. Devs and publishers will target where they make the most money. Primarily. And that just happens to be consoles. The spec of hardware in the PC space today already exceeds what we will see in consoles next gen, and the tech that will drive the next generation of games are already there, but you will not see games being designed to fully support that tech until the next gen consoles come around again. Thats how it always is. PCs just show you what will happen if you are running this games at either a higher or lower spec...thats why PC games give you recommended specs.

Checkerboarding on the Pro is just what was needed to get "PS4" games as close to 4K as they could.

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1. As of last year, there were 90 million monthly active users on Steam. There are other storefronts out there too. No big publisher will leave out a user base that big. Not to mention that even at the start of this generation, most PC users were on tech that was lower than what consoles came out with.

Publishers will make games where they can make money, and they will not get rid of PC users who form a huge market base so that they can concentrate on a new generation of consoles. People also do not just upgrade PC's often. If a game wont run on spec similar to what you get on lockheart, then it wont be on PC, and I guess that you will see a lot of games running on lower than that spec.

2. Majority of PC gamers are on spec that will most likely be lower than anything we get next gen going by a survey undertaken by Valve. How much memory do they have, what are the most used GPU's, what resolutions are they mostly working with?

3. The one place you will get games shining will be from first and second party developers that are not hampered with as many platforms to try an cater to, and even then, Microsoft can simply make a game for the higher spec console and then scale down.

As I mentioned, Sony is not building a 4K capable console to not make 4K games, and neither is Microsoft. The only reason we have CB4K on consoles is because Sony chose to have a console that could work at a $399 price point. Had they gone on and made a 4K machine at huge cost, we would be seeing mainly 4K games in the mid generation refresh space.

 

[Detective]

I really wanna new experience when it comes to Next Gen. New controller, New dashboard, New features, New game experiences.
I hope developers get more creative and create something that wasn't possible before.

 

[Kage Maru]

is that my entire point though? the guy i was replying to was making an argument saying that Lockheart wont hold back Anaconda. But if we look at Horizon 4, they just up ressed to native 4k and called it a day. Because at the end of they days, devs will not create two different versions of the same game. it's why Anthem on PC looks nothing like the E3 2017 demo. Sure it has better graphics settings than the console versions like better textures, better foliage quality, better AO, AF, AA, whatever, but it still doesnt come close to the Anthem they first showed.

That's exactly what happened with Horizon 4. There was a poster who replied to me just now and listed all these improvements like foliage density and texture quality, but both versions still look virtually identical and will pale in comparison to next gen racing games. And thats exactly whats going to happen next gen with the Anaconda. Devs will treat it like a fancy high end PC, but it will not be an entirely different version of the game.

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The XBO and 1X versions do not look virtually the same and the issues with Anthem are more likely due to engine limitations than anything on hardware.

You are severely understating how scalable a renderer can be.

 

[AegonSnake]

I hope we're all misunderstanding their intent with Scarlet- crossing my fingers that it really is the streaming box and not necessarily intended to render things locally.

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Me too. a $100 streaming box will make more sense and have them compete with Apple TV, Google Stadia and Roku.

Now of course, If lockheart turns out to be a 12 tflops console and Anaconda is a 16 tflops monster. I am ok with the two SKU strategy, but having next gen games limited to 6-8 tflops is just a depressing thought.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

In the 360 generation, it was developers (Epic) that was pushing for more RAM.
Last generation, it was developers that were pushing Sony for 8GB RAM.

Development costs have gone up, but they have not risen as anywhere near fast as revenues have for some of the biggest publishers.

The only reason Microsoft will have a lower powered console is that most people are still gaming on 1080p sets, and that the lowest common denominator is still going to be PC. And if there is no expectation in a jump in visual fidelity, more game complexity and variety, then what is the reason for people to upgrade their consoles?

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This idea that PC sets the minimum spec. is patently false and divorced from reality for all but the least performance intensive indie games.

Please find me a AAA current gen game with a required minimum PC hardware spec. lower than the consoles.

I'll wait.

This sounds strangely like the rationale at the start of this gen that publishers were pushing for and would love all digital to kill used games and keep them making money. Supposedly MS was leading the charge, Sony would do it too, and publishers would be happy. Then MS was left standing all alone and now most publishers prefer the PS4. I Hope MS is not trying to guess what else publishers like and just focuses singularly on a powerful, easy to develop for box that is as cheap as possible. Xcloud should be a side bonus, media should be a side bonus. I also think they should kill the two SKU idea and do it later as a side bonus. Simplify their message. Worlds most powerful console (if it is) that plays games the best and cheapest.

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I'm not saying this is MS's motivation, but I could see how it could be, precisely because of how MS pursued the shitty XB1 launch used game policy that backfired on them royally.

It was obvious that publishers wanted that, because as a platform holder MS alone had no reason to pursue such a system that wouldn't meaningfully directly benefit them.

 

[ItsTheLittleThings]

You are severely understating how scalable a renderer can be.

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Folks should at least attempt to quantify what they mean by being "held back" in the context of FLOPs per pixel (and even then that's not wholly accurate, as the higher the pixel to triangle ratio, the higher the quad occupancy & cache hits i.e. efficiency).

 

[44alltheway]

Not too many leaks recently...

 

[gremlinz1982]

is that my entire point though? the guy i was replying to was making an argument saying that Lockheart wont hold back Anaconda. But if we look at Horizon 4, they just up ressed to native 4k and called it a day. Because at the end of they days, devs will not create two different versions of the same game. it's why Anthem on PC looks nothing like the E3 2017 demo. Sure it has better graphics settings than the console versions like better textures, better foliage quality, better AO, AF, AA, whatever, but it still doesnt come close to the Anthem they first showed.

That's exactly what happened with Horizon 4. There was a poster who replied to me just now and listed all these improvements like foliage density and texture quality, but both versions still look virtually identical and will pale in comparison to next gen racing games. And thats exactly whats going to happen next gen with the Anaconda. Devs will treat it like a fancy high end PC, but it will not be an entirely different version of the game.

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They did not res up. They worked on the XB1X and then ressed down, but even then, there was a lot more done on the premium console than was achieved on the base console. So what held back anything?

 

[WhtR88t]

Anaconda is a 16 tflops monster.

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We're up to a possible 16 now for Anaconda?

 

[Hudsoniscool]

is that my entire point though? the guy i was replying to was making an argument saying that Lockheart wont hold back Anaconda. But if we look at Horizon 4, they just up ressed to native 4k and called it a day. Because at the end of they days, devs will not create two different versions of the same game. it's why Anthem on PC looks nothing like the E3 2017 demo. Sure it has better graphics settings than the console versions like better textures, better foliage quality, better AO, AF, AA, whatever, but it still doesnt come close to the Anthem they first showed.

That's exactly what happened with Horizon 4. There was a poster who replied to me just now and listed all these improvements like foliage density and texture quality, but both versions still look virtually identical and will pale in comparison to next gen racing games. And thats exactly whats going to happen next gen with the Anaconda. Devs will treat it like a fancy high end PC, but it will not be an entirely different version of the game.

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They don't look nearly identical. The Xbox one version looks way better. Not just resolution.

 

[bsigg]

They did not res up. They worked on the XB1X and then ressed down, but even then, there was a lot more done on the premium console than was achieved on the base console. So what held back anything?

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The CPU did lol

I'm pretty sure all MS first party titles have moved to X as the lead and then scaled back from there for the S/XBO.

 

[Kage Maru]

Folks should at least attempt quantify what they mean by being "held back" in the context of FLOPs per pixel (and even then that's not wholly accurate).

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When it comes to purely GPU related tasks there is little risk of anything being held back because you can almost always strip away what doesn't work on the lower power hardware. The bigger points of concern should be the memory (to an extent) and CPU.

Problem is some here are more interested in posting about their hopes and dreams or concern trolling for platforms they aren't interested in.

 

[WhtR88t]

They did not res up. They worked on the XB1X and then ressed down, but even then, there was a lot more done on the premium console than was achieved on the base console. So what held back anything?

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Are you saying that physics, world size, AI, loading, amount of cars on screen at once etc weren't held back by having to support the S? If they were allowed to develop strictly for the X do you think any of those things would have improved?

 

[Deleted member 49804]

Please find me a AAA current gen game with a required minimum PC hardware spec. lower than the consoles.

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Even has "below" minimum.
But the game is still not hold back visually by any of that.

 

[Jaypah]

Are you saying that physics, world size, AI, loading, amount of cars on screen at once etc weren't held back by having to support the S? If they were allowed to develop strictly for the X do you think any of those things would have improved?

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Isn't a lot of that more dependent on the CPU which is the same between the 2?

 

[Sekiro]

They didn't say

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Unfortunate.

Really wanted to know what type of GPU it used and what teraflop count it had (if it was AMD of course), because that demo was what i consider to be the perfect generational leap to visual fidelity for next gen.

So for example say that demo was running on a single Vega 56 card, which is 10.5 teraflops, then i'd join team 10TF in a heartbeat and nothing more, the graphical fidelity of that demo was perfection, sucks that we don't know what powered it, could be a Vega 56 or an RTX 2080TI for all we know lol.

 

[Kage Maru]

Me too. a $100 streaming box will make more sense and have them compete with Apple TV, Google Stadia and Roku.

Now of course, If lockheart turns out to be a 12 tflops console and Anaconda is a 16 tflops monster. I am ok with the two SKU strategy, but having next gen games limited to 6-8 tflops is just a depressing thought.

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What's depressing or concerning about a 6-8TF console designed for 1080p gaming? Do you know how much better 1080p games can look if they had 6-8TF as the base?

You being OK with a ~13-16TF GPU for 4K but not happy with a 6-8TF GPU for 1080p makes absolutely no sense.

Are you saying that physics, world size, AI, loading, amount of cars on screen at once etc weren't held back by having to support the S? If they were allowed to develop strictly for the X do you think any of those things would have improved?

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The CPU limitations would have prevented just about all of that. The only thing in question is the world size but then we'd have to see how the extra memory is being utilized for the higher resolution textures. In the end, you might have to choose between better textures or a bigger world if it came to that. With the world as large as it is, I'd rather have the better textures.

To your original question though, no, the S didn't hold back almost everything you listed.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

I have noted several times just today in this thread that I think Microsoft could very well leverage their AI innovation at a local hardware customization level in the next gen Xbox consoles, and they may even provide some interesting "cloud enabled" AI support for games for those developers who would choose to use it for certain applications.

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Using pretrained machine learning models to up rez the assets of backwards compatible titles on the new machines I could easily see being used by both Sony and MS. It would be easy win to make the clunky old titles to be less disgusting at 4k because BC is supposed to be a selling point rather than a turn off.

ML being utililised in the hardware render pipeline to enhance other stuff? Possible but seems like it's too early.

I'd be surprised to see any ML being done "on the fly" and trained locally. It will likely need too many data points and iterations to be usuable.

Behavioural player information could be pushed off the local machine to be leveraged using the "powah of the cloud! (tm)" but I think MS will want to steer well clear of that messaging because of promises this generation.

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

Unfortunate.

Really wanted to know what type of GPU it used and what teraflop count it had (if it was AMD of course), because that demo was what i consider to be the perfect generational leap to visual fidelity for next gen.

So for example say that demo was running on a single Vega 56 card, which is 10.5 teraflops, then i'd join team 10TF in a heartbeat and nothing more, the graphical fidelity of that demo was perfection, sucks that we don't know what powered it, could be a Vega 56 or an RTX 2080TI for all we know lol.

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That unity demo was made using a 2080ti


I'd don't what an AMD equivalent is?, I'm guessing 16vega tflops?

However bare in mind that a full game team should be able to do better with far less performance.

Look at this gen, games surpassed the samaritan and elemental demo despite being 1/2 the performance of a GTX 680.

 

[SeanMN]

I'm certain that people in in every aspect of the business work hard. Bringing any new product to market is a huge endeavour.

What are the innovations we'll see specifically with Anaconda?

Will we see anything new or more of the same?

No one seems willing to suggest anything that could be or is being done but are very keen to talk about things in the past.

I thought this was a next speculation thread, not a corporate highlights reel.

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The direct x team is at the forefront of bringing ray tracing into the mainstream (along with nvidia). If one console maker is going to have advancements in that realm, I think it's most likely to be Xbox. They're also doing a lot of work with machine learning via DirectML. Microsoft has actually created a bespoke AI coprocessor for use in Hololens 2 - perhaps some of that engineering work could translate to DirectML workloads in future console tech? They've been very active overall the last two years at GDC talking about various advancements and innovations (DXR, DML, xCloud, VRS, etc.), most of which I expect to see as part of project Scarlett.

I don't think innovation in graphics or gaming tech is something that is lacking at Microsoft. And they've shown their ability to engineer and customize chips from AMD several times in the past.

 

[AegonSnake]

They did not res up. They worked on the XB1X and then ressed down, but even then, there was a lot more done on the premium console than was achieved on the base console. So what held back anything?

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The face/off comparison here actually proves my point. Both games look virtually identical save for some minor differences. a 6 tflops GPU should be able to do so much more it's not even funny. But the best you get is a 4k native image with some better textures, better foliage, more NPCs on the sidelines and shadows? Are you going to be happy with just getting a souped up version of a 6-8 tflops Lockheart game on the Anaconda? Whats the point of making the most powerful console ever if its just giving you the same game as a 6-8 tflops console but with high settings instead of medium?

Again, going back to the Anthem comparison, all you are getting on Forza Horizon is settings equivalent to high settings. I run Anthem on a $700 RTX 2080 on ultra settings and it looks nothing like the E3 2017 because it was held back by the 1.3 tflops Xbox One, just like how the Anaconda will be held back by the 6-8 tflops Lockheart. All those fancy PC settings letting me set Terrain, Foliage Quality, textures to ultra wont change the fact that I am not playing the game that was initially advertised because it couldnt be done on the Xbox One and base PS4 consoles.

What's depressing or concerning about a 6-8TF console designed for 1080p gaming? Do you know how much better 1080p games can look if they had 6-8TF as the base?

You being OK with a ~13-16TF GPU for 4K but not happy with a 6-8TF GPU for 1080p makes absolutely no sense.

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Read above. I have made my point perfectly clear in like 5 different posts on this very page.

And I am ONLY ok with a 16 tflops GPU IF the base version is at 12 tflops. I literally said that in the post you quoted. If 12 tflops is used to render a 1080p image then im fine with MS charging whatever the fuck they want for an unrealistic $599 16 tflops console.

 

[Sekiro]

That unity demo was made using a 2080ti

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Really? Where's the source on that? Been scouring the net for ages looking for that info lol.

 

[TheTruthofKayle]

Same here.... in truth all I want is 4K.cb@60fps. You give me that and I will take it over native 4k every single time.

I really feel native 4k is the most blatant waste of resources ever.

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Luckily devs think differently ..and will go for 4k as they already do with the X and try what they can with the PRO...standing at your point we could render at 900p and use cbr to make everything AMAZING....AMAZING I said
4k increase the IQ by a lots ....come back from 4k to 1440 is a rape to the eyes

 

[BreakAtmo]

Something I was wondering. Would it be possible to make a 'streaming box' that actually 'played' an instance of the game without visuals? So that input lag was minimised? You'd end up with a 50-100ms disconnect between the game logic and the visuals that were being streamed in, but I thought it might be better than the disconnect between pressing the button and waiting longer for the action to happen.

 

[gremlinz1982]

This idea that PC sets the minimum spec. is patently false and divorced from reality for all but the least performance intensive indie games.

Please find me a AAA current gen game with a required minimum PC hardware spec. lower than the consoles.

I'll wait.

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What were the specs on launch titles?

I will also wait for a response to a generation where developers said......do not give us too much power.

I also think that the bias shown by some here has tied them in knots. Say everyone gets the same Ryzen CPU clocked at 3.2ghz, and on the lowest end we get a Navi GPU that is minimum 6TFLOPS, 16GB GDDR6, SSD on the lowest end. Do people really think that that is going to be lower that most PC setups?

Are you saying that physics, world size, AI, loading, amount of cars on screen at once etc weren't held back by having to support the S? If they were allowed to develop strictly for the X do you think any of those things would have improved?

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I am sure that if Sony developers were allowed to do things only on the Pro, they could have done a lot more. Point here is if the CPU is the same, GPU is the same family, same type of RAM and SSD implementation, then you can scale down with no issues. Why people think that this is an issue is beyond me.

The CPU did lol

I'm pretty sure all MS first party titles have moved to X as the lead and then scaled back from there for the S/XBO.

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Same thing will happen next generation. Chances are that they have learnt a lot more this generation as to how it all works too

 

[Deleted member 2379]

We need someone with an uncle to come through soon. This is getting long in the tooth.