Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE

[VallenValiant]

Could be smart. They're gonna sell out that first holiday (though they should release in September or October to get 2 quick sales bumps in first few months between launch preorders then holiday sales) and then they can price cut sometime in 2021 but only $50

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Had ANY company ever done this at all with their hardware?
I mean, other than the PS3 with its quick price cut once Sony realized the MSRP just couldn't be sustained?

I really, really don't see Sony having a price cut only one year after release, and have it be planned. This makes no sense and i don't see it as standard practice. Sure, Microsoft is effectively doing this with the Xbox SAD, but everyone is litterally mocking them for this right now across social media.

Just sell your hardware at the real MSRP. Quick discounts do NOT look good no matter what.

 

[TheTruthofKayle]

Because they don't want to reveal PS5 until MS reveals their hand?

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after this interview I think that at this point isn't like they can change the hardware

 

[Dictator]

Tflops > Ray Tracing

I prefer more visual fidelity over prettier water and windows.

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RT for visuals is greater visual fidelity, more accurate and less time consuming to boot.

I wish the author released the conversation that was had specifically around ray tracing - the direct quotes - as he did with pricing. I think he's unaware of how interesting/useful that would be to people in order to ground expectations in what Cerny actually said, vs guesswork over what he really meant. Listening back to a podcast the author did after, he also seems to have a thing about not just releasing transcripts of what was said... but that's a shame with something like this, where you can often glean a lot of nuance from the way someone like Cerny talks. It's not that I think Cerny confirmed or denied special hardware explicitly, but I think we could take some direction on that from how he talked about it.

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Yeah the reluctance there to just reproduce everything said sucks :(

IMO it's still wisest to err on the side of no expectation wrt hardware RT. I could see Cerny talking about it in a very qualified way, purely because the raw compute power is probably there now to apply it in some ways.

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I think so too. Best to be surprised than disappointed. And it not like that ability is completely useless or something even without it.

 

[Carn]

I prefer more visual fidelity over prettier water and windows.

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That's just a very, very limited example of raytracing.

 

[Pheonix]

Had ANY company ever done this at all with their hardware?
I mean, other than the PS3 with its quick price cut once Sony realized the MSRP just couldn't be sustained?

I really, really don't see Sony having a price cut only one year after release, and have it be planned. This makes no sense and i don't see it as standard practice. Sure, Microsoft is effectively doing this with the Xbox SAD, but everyone is litterally mocking them for this right now across social media.

Just sell your hardware at the real MSRP. Quick discounts do NOT look good no matter what.

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I don't see it either, but its happened before. MS dropped the price of the XB1 from$499 to $399 in like 6 months or so. Arguable cause we can also say they didn't drop the price but introduce a kinect free model. However they had an official price drop (or sales) to $349 in november 2014. One year after launch that "officially" lasted till january 2015. In truth it stuck but who cares right? The PS4's first price drop was in october or so of 2015.

MS is not being mocked for cutting the price of the XB1 with the SAD. They are mocking them for even releasing it. Further more, suggesting that if they must have then they should have priced it at $199 or if at $249 dd like a free 3 month game pass thingy as opposed to add 3 free games that are already on game pass.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

I'm not seeing the hint at a higher price point in Cerny's value comment. He could just as easily be talking about providing good bang for your buck, especially if Microsoft sandwiching the PS5 with Lockhart and Anaconda is true.

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It's almost like people didn't go through the period before the PS4 launch, with Tretton saying he "hoped" the PS4 wouldn't be $599 at launch, multiple places speculating a bunch of price points above $400 and up to $530, SCE VP saying that the PS4 would be a good value proposition, etc.

Underpromise and overdeliver is PS's modus operandi when it comes to pricing. It's all about dropping that price bomb during the reveal to get the internet in flames.

The one time they didn't follow that script - the PS3 - bit them in the ass and that's a lesson they won't forget.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Tflops > Ray Tracing

I prefer more visual fidelity over prettier water and windows.

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If performance impact would be similar to nvidia implementation then I agree

 

[VX1]

It's almost like people didn't go through the period before the PS4 launch, with Tretton saying he "hoped" the PS4 wouldn't be $599 at launch, multiple places speculating a bunch of price points above $400 and up to $530, SCE VP saying that the PS4 would be a good value proposition, etc.

Underpromise and overdeliver is PS's modus operandi when it comes to pricing. It's all about dropping that price bomb during the reveal to get the internet in flames.

The one time they didn't follow that script - the PS3 - bit them in the ass and that's a lesson they won't forget.

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Indeed.

 

[JaggedSac]

Why would u want slower hard drive ? Fast SSD hard drive will change the way devlopers design open world games due to it loading much faster .SSD should be in both .so anacando can actually enjoy the benefit.otherwise it will be a feature developers won't explore more than laoding time due to Lockhart not being able to handle that type of streaming engine assets speed .

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I'm not sure ho exactly all this will play out, but a dev always expecting the game to be installed on an ssd may be problematic. Even a 1tb drive will require me to expand the storage on the box. But if devs expect/require ssd, that means I am either transferring and moving around games from an external hdd to my sdd, or I have to buy ssd external hard drives. Which are expensive. I'm very curious how this will all play out.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

after this interview I think that at this point isn't like they can change the hardware

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It's not only about that, it's about how best to present the console to the public.

 

[TheTruthofKayle]

It's not only about that, it's about how best to present the console to the public.

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That's for sure ...in fact following how Sony used to show and talk about their new console waiting Ms to spill the bean and then counter attack ....this Cerny interview sounded very weird to me.
Probably they are very confident in what they got

 

[qa_engineer]

And we're certain the PS5 is going to have a full-on SSD and not a larger solid state cache drive like Optane? That would help reduce cost by allowing standard hard drives but also improve game loading, assuming its some fancy new custom implementation of the technology.

 

[BubblegumNemesis]

That's for sure ...in fact following how Sony used to show and talk about their new console waiting Ms to spill the bean and then counter attack ....this Cerny interview sounded very weird to me.
Probably they are very confident in what they got

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Weird flow of logic is weird.

 

[bdsams]

So what's Arden and Argalus?

We need a thread-marked breakdown of all the next-gen codenames.

cc anexanhume, Colbert, bdsams --- gents, do you mind to bring some clarification here?

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Curious, where else has Argalus shown up? Second time I have heard that in the past week or so.

But yes, Arden is a name for a SoC/chip for Xbox but I dont know how it fully plays into the setup, it could be the CPU/GPU codename as a project or a specific component.

 

[BubblegumNemesis]

Tflops > Ray Tracing

I prefer more visual fidelity over prettier water and windows.

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And lights and materials and shadows... etc etc... You realise that "visual fidelity" has to do a lot with RT?

 

[Son Goku]

Why is no one flirting with different storage sizes like they had with 360 and ps3?

PS5 could be 1TB SSD for $399 taken at a heavier loss

Then a 2tb SSD Model for $499 which is taking less of a loss because I can't think it costs them $100 more to increase the SSD size

I'd go for the bigger model but for many casuals who want fortnite, cod, and sports the 1TB would be fine and Sony could still hit their sweet spot while taking maybe a $100 loss but then a decent amount of people would buy the $500 especially initially when it's more hardcore early adopters so they could avoid as much of a loss with those sales. Wouldn't hamper their exclusives either with a lower power model

Edit: oh and maybe another usb slot or two could be put in that higher one as well

 

[dgrdsv]

I'm not really sure what you mean by that.

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Modern voxel tracing techniques are using 3D textures which are voxels essentially and they likely are a better fit for such tracing than using RT BVH in this manner. BVH is a lot more flexible and because of this it likely will be a lot slower.

The RT cores have fixed functions, intersecting a cone with a box and a ray with a box requires a different function that the RTX RT cores don't have right now. Yes, it is possible to add another fixed function to the RT cores in the future, but I double NVIDIA will do this because the 2000 series already handles RT pretty well and the 3000 will probably be a pretty big performance jump because it is supposed to be a Tick so I'm not sure what is NVIDIA's interest in giving support for Cone tracing in the hardware level. When the PS5 will be 2 years old, NVIDIA will already be in their 4000 series and RT performance will be so high by then that PC gamers will probably wouldn't want anything other than real Path Tracing.

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RT cores has a fixed function of calculating ray intersections. The ray generation itself as well as the BVH through which they are shot aren't fixed function at all and are made on generic ALUs and CPUs with a custom compute shader / CPU code. It's entirely possible that adding a "cone" ray type to this system can be as easy as an update to DXR spec. Accelerating a workload which will be used by next gen games is definitely something which NV will have interest in. On the other hand, NV is most definitely isn't interested in "ticks" as in accelerating your CS:GO beyond its current 800 fps in 8K.

None of these methods are precluded from running on any GPU including classic RT that DXR and Vulkan use. The only question is performance and the payoff it gives vs its' GPU time budget and some of these methods are really light compared to RT.

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That's what I've said. The point is that people really shouldn't put these methods as something that is an alternative to "real" RT - they are not, they are simpler and faster but way more limited options which can and most likely will be used _with_ "real" RT in the future.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

About all the predictions about peak performances:
I wouldn't freak out about the fact industry veterans express different expectations where they think next gen consoles will land from a performance perspective. And I don't see them as rumors but very educated guesses based on their experience and information they have access to.

If we list the most important expectations that were posted here in this thread, we look at the following:
Jason Schreier (jschreier ): Thinks consoles are targeting Stadia TF value of 10.7TF
DigitalFoundry /(Richard Leadbetter, Dictator , Dark1x ): Thinks that it could end up in a range between 8TF and 14TF (Very wide range btw)
Albert Penello (Albert Penello ): Thinks that the baseline for consoles will be 8TF to 9TF with the Anconda may a little bit higher

If I would try to get a common ground out of all those expectations, for me that would be point to a peak performance range around 10TF +/- 10% .

 

[Ozorov]

About all the predictions about peak performances:
I wouldn't freak out about the fact industry veterans express different expectations where they think next gen consoles will land from a performance perspective. And I don't see them as rumors but very educated guesses based on their experience and information they have access to.

If we list the most important expectations that were posted here in this thread, we look at the following:
Jason Schreier (jschreier ): Thinks consoles are targeting Stadia TF value of 10.7TF
DigitalFoundry /(Richard Leadbetter, Dictator , Dark1x ): Thinks that it could end up in a range between 8TF and 14TF (Very wide range btw)
Albert Penello (Albert Penello ): Thinks that the baseline for consoles will be 8TF to 9TF with the Anconda may a little bit higher

If I would try to get a common ground out of all those expectations, for me that would be point to a peak performance range around 10TF +/- 10% .

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5x jump aint bad. And the CPU-jump togheter with SSD-powah. Sweet times ahead

 

[zedox]

Everyone is talking about raytracing (which I've been saying would happen nextgen for some time) and CPU/GPU teraflops and I'm here wondering about Microsoft's AI implementation. Using DirectML and if they are going to use an AI-Coprocessor (which Satya said would/could be found in future MS devices a couple years back...gotta pay attention) or use the GPU for that workload. AI is going to be used throughout MS' hardware...I just don't think people realize it. It's going to help a lot with visuals and perceived power...and probably why they can afford to have Lockhart at 4TF. I know Albert Penello can't comment on it but I'm pretty sure I'm on the right path for "reasons" :D

Also...it's important to note that Microsoft will be making their console that is also easy to make their server racks for xCloud. So their design will be unique in that sense. Build for the cloud and work your way down to the console.

 

[Convasse]

Everyone is talking about raytracing (which I've been saying would happen nextgen for some time) and CPU/GPU teraflops and I'm here wondering about Microsoft's AI implementation. Using DirectML and if they are going to use an AI-Coprocessor or use the GPU for that workload. AI is going to be used throughout MS' hardware...I just don't think people realize it. It's going to help a lot with visuals and perceived power...and probably why they can afford to have Lockhart at 4TF. I know Albert Penello can't comment on it but I'm pretty sure I'm on the right path for "reasons" :D

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Now see, THAT is truly exciting. Great graphics are one thing, but there hasn't been a "true" leap in AI since ... well, I can't remember. If the NeXbox has AI hardware, that could be the TRUE standout of the generation. Imagining Halo with advanced AI makes me both terrified and excited simultaneously.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

I know I will be crucified by some for those predictions but I have updated my baseline prediction based on the latest developments. Please keep in mind those are baseline values and not max values. I would see max peak performance at around +10% on the baseline.

To celebrate the fresh smell of the new OT I provide my current baseline prediction ... (will be updated from time to time)

Change Log:
Rev 6: Consolidated to 1 baseline per console, adjusted specs & pricing for all consoles
Rev 5: Added 3rd tier to adapt on AdoredTV table of Navi GPUs
Rev. 4.3: SSD for Lockhart, Lockhart now $399 instead of $349
Rev. 4.2: Increased Memory clock instead of 448Gbps,

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[zedox]

Now see, THAT is truly exciting. Great graphics are one thing, but there hasn't been a "true" leap in AI since ... well, I can't remember. If the NeXbox has AI hardware, that could be the TRUE standout of the generation. Imagining Halo with advanced AI makes me both terrified and excited simultaneously.

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Well, we already know MS will be using DirectML and AI (Phil already talked about this) but I assume it will be for both hardware performance and for within games. This is where MS uses the resources of "big MS" that can't be easily matched (not saying Sony can't use Machine Learning...as they can...they just aren't as invested in it as Microsoft). I would say MS worked with NVidia on DXR and they knew about DLSS...I wouldn't be surprised if MS learned about its usage or even help develop it. ;)

 

[anexanhume]

Curious, where else has Argalus shown up? Second time I have heard that in the past week or so.

But yes, Arden is a name for a SoC/chip for Xbox but I dont know how it fully plays into the setup, it could be the CPU/GPU codename as a project or a specific component.

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We've seen Arden appear in PCI ID databases, yet Argalus has yet to do so.

We've also yet to see an AMD codename leak for any next gen Xbox SoC, though I believe they really didn't leak out for prior gen either as opposed to PS4 and PS4 Pro which can be clearly spotted using the same methods of decoding the chip numbers as seen in the DF video.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

Well, we already know MS will be using DirectML and AI (Phil already talked about this) but I assume it will be for both hardware performance and for within games. This is where MS uses the resources of "big MS" that can't be easily matched (not saying Sony can't use Machine Learning...as they can...they just aren't as invested in it as Microsoft). I would say MS worked with NVidia on DXR and they knew about DLSS...I wouldn't be surprised if MS learned about its usage or even help develop it. ;)

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We have to differentiate about different phases with machine learning. Phase 1 the learning part will certainly not take place on the consoles. At least I wouldn't reserve extra resources for that. If we talk about machine learning on consoles I think we are talking primarily about executing the found patterns. IMO this can already be done with existing hardware and asynchronous compute.

 

[Expy]

Albert Penello (Albert Penello ): Thinks that the baseline for consoles will be 8TF to 9TF with the Anconda may a little bit higher

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Albert's post can be a complete mislead as we know that he is well aware of Microsoft's plans.

 

[anexanhume]

Albert's post can be a complete mislead as we know that he is well aware of Microsoft's plans.

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Given when he left, I'm guessing he doesn't know a ton. Why else would he hang in this thread so much?

 

[Rooster]

Modern voxel tracing techniques are using 3D textures which are voxels essentially and they likely are a better fit for such tracing than using RT BVH in this manner. BVH is a lot more flexible and because of this it likely will be a lot slower.


RT cores has a fixed function of calculating ray intersections. The ray generation itself as well as the BVH through which they are shot aren't fixed function at all and are made on generic ALUs and CPUs with a custom compute shader / CPU code. It's entirely possible that adding a "cone" ray type to this system can be as easy as an update to DXR spec. Accelerating a workload which will be used by next gen games is definitely something which NV will have interest in. On the other hand, NV is most definitely isn't interested in "ticks" as in accelerating your CS:GO beyond its current 800 fps in 8K.


That's what I've said. The point is that people really shouldn't put these methods as something that is an alternative to "real" RT - they are not, they are simpler and faster but way more limited options which can and most likely will be used _with_ "real" RT in the future.

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Well we know GPU accelerated BVH is available on AMD GPUs using Radeon Rays. Pretty sure it's still too slow for real time though, AMD sell it as a way to speed up development of baked lighting and also for 3D sound simulation as mentioned in the wired article.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

Given when he left, I'm guessing he doesn't know a ton. Why else would he hang in this thread so much?

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I can only speculate but at least he knows about what was planned while he still was there. I think that is quite a good foundation to give his point of view. And compared to us he was already part of 2 console release plannings before. For me his opinion has some weight regardless if he knows the latest update to the plan.

 

[tapedeck]

I think Albert has nothing but good intentions but I just can't see PS5 being 8TF if it's launching in Fall 2020 which seems most likely the time frame. That's simply too small of a leap from current gen even if they go $399. Ignoring the fact that I don't think 8TF is nearly enough power to sustain a new generation..just from a public perception stand point PS5 has to be equal or greater than Stadia in TFs.

 

[SeanMN]

Curious, where else has Argalus shown up? Second time I have heard that in the past week or so.

But yes, Arden is a name for a SoC/chip for Xbox but I dont know how it fully plays into the setup, it could be the CPU/GPU codename as a project or a specific component.

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Hey Brad, have you heard anything about what the reaction inside Microsoft/Xbox was to the Wired PS5 article? After Stadia was announced you shared the email Phil sent the team, was there any communications after Sony's initial next gen plans were revealed?

 

[M4xim1l1ano]

Wondering: the $399 price point worked out quite well for Sony last time, granted that they "lucked" out that MS prioritised other things and thus had a more expensive (and inferior machine).

This time around, MS will not do that mistake (or so it seems).
So, my wondering is, is a price point of $399 for PS5 really contradictive to what Cerny has said about potential capabilities of the machine? It can still have all that but a bit lower Ghz, CU, TFLOP numbers (meaning absolutely NOT 14Tflop something closer to 10Tflop).

Because people seem to jump to the conclusion that Sony has to be at $499 because of what Cerny said but in fact, nothing that Cerny has revealed yet shows why it cant be 399 either, right?

Could it be more important for Sony to hit that 399 with perhaps a slight loss, in order to just sell as many machines possible?
People in this thread are already justifying the superiority of Sonys 1party games so then these power-comments are mostly the wishing/wanting of fanboys (both MS and Sony?)

I am suspecting that perhaps it is more important for Sony to hit 399 than to go crazy with Teraflops because perhaps they are confident that their 1party titles will drive sales.. and also, the majority of PS4 users are most likely buying the PS5 as well, "regardless" of power?

just my 2c

 

[Expy]

Given when he left, I'm guessing he doesn't know a ton. Why else would he hang in this thread so much?

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Considering the time when they began to formulate next-gen plans, I would imagine he was there long enough to have a good idea, plus his contacts.

 

[grosbard]

Given when he left, I'm guessing he doesn't know a ton. Why else would he hang in this thread so much?

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He said he knows Microsoft's plan.

I won't really comment directly on Microsoft stuff, since I know the plan. I'm not avoiding the questions I'm just actively not answering them :)

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[anexanhume]

He said he knows Microsoft's plan.

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He said this

Finally - I'm not intending to suggest that Brad is lying, or being fed bad information (on purpose). I think people who are leaking may be credible sources and just don't know the whole plan. He is likely likely getting small snippets of information then extrapolating that into a spec, or the people giving him the information only have part of the story and are doing the same thing. The only thing I was reacting to was the impression that these console specs are fluid, they haven't been decided, and so everything is still up-in-the-air. That's likely not the case. Someone knows exactly what the plan is.

I have yet to see anything that is accurate to what I was aware of before I left. The infinite monkey theorem suggests that maybe someone, somewhere has figured it out exactly. But so far nothing I have seen is 100% right. Of course, things could have changed as it's been 9 months since I left so it's possible the plan has changed slightly. And if someone did have it right, I would never say.

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The simple truth is that we don't know how much he was aware of before he left, but again, why is he in this thread so much. Are Sony's plans alone that intriguing?

 

[BreakAtmo]

Wondering: the $399 price point worked out quite well for Sony last time, granted that they "lucked" out that MS prioritised other things and thus had a more expensive (and inferior machine).

This time around, MS will not do that mistake (or so it seems).
So, my wondering is, is a price point of $399 for PS5 really contradictive to what Cerny has said about potential capabilities of the machine? It can still have all that but a bit lower Ghz, CU, TFLOP numbers (meaning absolutely NOT 14Tflop something closer to 10Tflop).

Because people seem to jump to the conclusion that Sony has to be at $499 because of what Cerny said but in fact, nothing that Cerny has revealed yet shows why it cant be 399 either, right?

Could it be more important for Sony to hit that 399 with perhaps a slight loss, in order to just sell as many machines possible?
People in this thread are already justifying the superiority of Sonys 1party games so then these power-comments are mostly the wishing/wanting of fanboys (both MS and Sony?)

I am suspecting that perhaps it is more important for Sony to hit 399 than to go crazy with Teraflops because perhaps they are confident that their 1party titles will drive sales.. and also, the majority of PS4 users are most likely buying the PS5 as well, "regardless" of power?

just my 2c

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What Cerny said really doesn't fit with $399, not when he starts talking about the 'advanced feature set' unprompted to justify the price. If it was $399 he wouldn't need to do that. And again, the immediate interpretation of the interviewer was that the PS5 would cost more than usual, which he later reiterated in that podcast (even specifying 'more than $399').

 

[Expy]

He said this



The simple truth is that we don't know how much he was aware of before he left, but again, why is he in this thread so much. Are Sony's plans alone that intriguing?

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I won't really comment directly on Microsoft stuff, since I know the plan. I'm not avoiding the questions I'm just actively not answering them :)

Click to shrink...

 

[Deleted member 1589]

He said this



The simple truth is that we don't know how much he was aware of before he left, but again, why is he in this thread so much. Are Sony's plans alone that intriguing?

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Nah, he probably just finds it fun, like us.

 

[zedox]

We have to differentiate about different phases with machine learning. Phase 1 the learning part will certainly not take place on the consoles. At least I wouldn't reserve extra resources for that. If we talk about machine learning on consoles I think we are talking primarily about executing the found patterns. IMO this can already be done with existing hardware and asynchronous compute.

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If you want to apply some hardware that mimics something that NVidia does with DLSS (not exactly, just the idea, not the implementation), which is a machine learning technique (technically deep learning)...I definitely can see that. As I said, if Lockhart can be made for a certain resolution but uses ML techniques to get to a higher resolution (I just used "power" in my previous statement), it is something worth doing.

I also want to point out what I said previously about the cloud. MS are going to repurpose their racks for other types of compute and if they can have the motherboards be multipurpose, it's better for MS (namely azure). So I look at hardware from the standpoint that they can leverage it for games and they can leverage it for the cloud...and these consoles are based on the same thing. I'm not doubting what you are saying...i'm looking at it from a non-traditional console launch because it's not.

 

[Deep Friar]

That 6tflop console cost $499, and had a Jaguar CPU clocked to the max, and a standard 1tb HDD with 12gb of GDDR5 RAM.

For sure we know that PS5 is Zen, and for sure we know it has an SSD. We can safely assume it will have at least the same amount of RAM as an X, and possibly more. We can safely assume it will use faster RAM, either GDDR6 or HBM. All of that needs to come in a box that's $100 less.

8tflop is not out of equation at this point, IMO. These components all cost money, so I'm not sure why 8tflops is such a joke. If you believe they are going to $499 I can understand your position. But $399? Let's look at a Pro: 4.2 tflops, jaguar, 8gb and 1tb HDD. 8tlfops is double a Pro, with a CPU at what - 4x or more the perf? With double-ish the ram and a much faster storage solution at the same price? That's a huge upgrade any way you look at it.

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That's assuming $399, which I'm less inclined to believe this time.

 

[AudiophileRS]

On pc, people with hdd just load a bit slower, in Anthem I would load in 15 seconds into the mission before my friend would, in gameplay it didn't really affect

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The problem is that it's not just about load times. One of the big pulls of a high speed SSD solution in a fixed platform is the expanded gameplay possibilities afforded by guaranteed, lightning fast speeds and latencies:

Traversing worlds at speed whether superman flying though the air or a bad guy escaping cops in a flying car, moving between different dimensions or different times, travelling through portals to different locations or into different realms, scaling between the cosmos to the microcosm to the atomic. Light-speed travel. And moving levels; don't just think a train going through the wilderness in Uncharted but Cities on wheels like Mortal Engines. It really is a game changer, but only if the speeds, latencies and optimised I/O can be guaranteed to developers.

Team 2019 fought hard.

May they rest peacefully.

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On to March 2020..

 

[anexanhume]

.

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Thanks.

Knowing the plan isn't necessarily helpful here though. Phil Spencer's comments make it clear we know they intend to have the better spec. The rumor we're trying to resolve is whether or not it's true based on developers' comments on dev kits.

 

[grosbard]

He said this



The simple truth is that we don't know how much he was aware of before he left, but again, why is he in this thread so much. Are Sony's plans alone that intriguing?

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He literally said he knows Microsoft's plan. Of course the caveat being that could change. As far as why he is here...probably because he is interested in video games and next-gen consoles lol. The thread is for next gen discussion not just Sony discussion.

 

[M4xim1l1ano]

What Cerny said really doesn't fit with $399, not when he starts talking about the 'advanced feature set' unprompted to justify the price. If it was $399 he wouldn't need to do that. And again, the immediate interpretation of the interviewer was that the PS5 would cost more than usual, which he later reiterated in that podcast (even specifying 'more than $399').

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The comment "more than 399".. was a comment from the interviewer?

 

[Deleted member 12635]

If you want to apply some hardware that mimics something that NVidia does with DLSS (not exactly, just the idea, not the implementation), which is a machine learning technique (technically deep learning)...I definitely can see that. As I said, if Lockhart can be made for a certain resolution but uses ML techniques to get to a higher resolution (I just used "power" in my previous statement), it is something worth doing.

I also want to point out what I said previously about the cloud. MS are going to repurpose their racks for other types of compute and if they can have the motherboards be multipurpose, it's better for MS (namely azure). So I look at hardware from the standpoint that they can leverage it for games and they can leverage it for the cloud...and these consoles are based on the same thing. I'm not doubting what you are saying...i'm looking at it from a non-traditional console launch because it's not.

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But Nvidia is just doing the same things with DLSS. They doing the learning on their server racks and distribute the learned pattern to the GPUs and they use those extra cores to execute the pattern on the rendered image. Nvidia chose to use extra fixed hardware but I think AMD will favor to just use their async compute capability to achieve this.

 

[Yerffej]

I know I will be crucified by some for those predictions but I have updated my baseline prediction based on the latest developments. Please keep in mind those are baseline values and not max values. I would see max peak performance at around +10% on the baseline.

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So why the low end on Teraflops? Isn't Stadia going for 10? I figured PS5 and Xbox going for whatever they can more to stay competetive over the long haul.

 

[Deleted member 12635]

So why the low end on Teraflops? Isn't Stadia going for 10? I figured PS5 and Xbox going for whatever they can more to stay competetive over the long haul.

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Part of my thinking process is that there are limits with consoles you don't have with a server based implementation. Those limitations like cooling and power consumption are part of the equation I base my prediction on. I am also predicting a baseline that could end up for example 10% higher.

 

[Terror-Billy]

I'm predicting 8-10 TF for PS5 and 12-14 for the Nextbox.

 

[Yerffej]

Part of my thinking process is that there are limits with consoles you don't have with a server based implementation. Those limitations like cooling and power consumption are part of the equation I base my prediction on. I am also predicting a baseline that could end up for example 10% higher.

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Oh. Kinda like how they turn off a core or whatever on consoles to get better yields?

 

[A Syrian Communist]

Why is no one flirting with different storage sizes like they had with 360 and ps3?

PS5 could be 1TB SSD for $399 taken at a heavier loss

Then a 2tb SSD Model for $499 which is taking less of a loss because I can't think it costs them $100 more to increase the SSD size

I'd go for the bigger model but for many casuals who want fortnite, cod, and sports the 1TB would be fine and Sony could still hit their sweet spot while taking maybe a $100 loss but then a decent amount of people would buy the $500 especially initially when it's more hardcore early adopters so they could avoid as much of a loss with those sales. Wouldn't hamper their exclusives either with a lower power model

Edit: oh and maybe another usb slot or two could be put in that higher one as well

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I'm honestly expecting the cheapest models to just ditch the Blu Ray drive, but maybe I'm dead wrong on that.