I figure most of them have some form of devs kits .
The question is when they going to get final devs kits since then is when specs it be mostly lock down .
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Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
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I figure most of them have some form of devs kits .
The question is when they going to get final devs kits since then is when specs it be mostly lock down .
How would saying yes/no about whether you know something for sure or are just stating an opinion "exposes sources to being exposed"? Users on here are verified for a reason, because they're "insiders" so that's not exactly a secret. It's literally advertised proudly. So I don't see the harm in clarifying whether something you say is simply an opinion or based on factual information you know.
A yes means someone is talking.
Forming a logical conclusion means, sure you likely have received confirmation, but a reasonable person would come to the same conclusion.
An insider has to be protective of sources or lose those sources. Do you see how Jason's posts blew up? People know only a few know that information. That's why you can't go anywhere and make definitive statements. People know who would know that information
wouldn't that be terrible if they share all the same games?
5-6tf vs 12 tfs is a significant gap
ahh final dev kits is what you're talking about - I see now. Yes, many devs had whatever version of devkits for a while now that is a correct assumption. I would assume that the final dev kits probably are either available now or perhaps middle of the year, but not later than 2020. This is an assumption of mine and not an actual confirmation or statement. Because I personally do not have knowledge of when they would have final dev kits. I can only guess.
PS4 Pro had a final spec kit almost a year from launch. PS4 had a final spec GPU according to the June 2012 VGLeaks...leak (800MHz, 1.84TF, fine grain compute, 18CU).
One X had similar "locked" specs also 18 months out.
I would expect specs are already decided barring something major going wrong even if the launch is late 2020.
I do think there is a subtle difference between a final spec kit and then a mass produced final spec kit at least it seemed that way for PS4. Final spec kits were around late 2012 for 1st party and around PS4 reveal for most third party? Actual mass produced kit (model DUH-D1000) seemed to go out around September 2013 because that is when ND took delivery of 3 pallets of them.
I would imagine first parties have more recent dev kits.
And 3rd parties have PC spec targets.
So they can start developing on a PC with a certain spec and then port it over when they get dev kits.
And 3rd parties have PC spec targets.
So they can start developing on a PC with a certain spec and then port it over when they get dev kits.
lets see who could be working on ps5 exclusives already
studio/last project/release date/ extimated time of development until march and november of 2020/ how much time it took between the launch of the last 2 games
santa monica - god of war - april/2018 - 1 year and 11 months/2 years and 7 months - ~5 years
guerrila - horizon zero dawn: frozen wilds - november/2017 - 2 years and 4 months/ 3 years - 4 years
polyphony digital - gran turismo sport - october/2017 - 2 years and 5 months/3 years and 1 month - ~4 years
japan studio - astrobot: rescue mission - october/2018 - 1 year and 5 months/ 2 years and 1 month - ~1 year
insomniac - spiderman - september/2018 - 1 year and 6 months/ 2 years and 2 months - ~4 years
sure that is just speculation, development could go faster because of size of team, and A and B teams could still exist etc. But with the exception of japan studio that released their games very fast, it doesnt seem like any of the developers would have time to release a launch tittle, either for march or november.
maybe guerrila?
studio/last project/release date/ extimated time of development until march and november of 2020/ how much time it took between the launch of the last 2 games
santa monica - god of war - april/2018 - 1 year and 11 months/2 years and 7 months - ~5 years
guerrila - horizon zero dawn: frozen wilds - november/2017 - 2 years and 4 months/ 3 years - 4 years
polyphony digital - gran turismo sport - october/2017 - 2 years and 5 months/3 years and 1 month - ~4 years
japan studio - astrobot: rescue mission - october/2018 - 1 year and 5 months/ 2 years and 1 month - ~1 year
insomniac - spiderman - september/2018 - 1 year and 6 months/ 2 years and 2 months - ~4 years
sure that is just speculation, development could go faster because of size of team, and A and B teams could still exist etc. But with the exception of japan studio that released their games very fast, it doesnt seem like any of the developers would have time to release a launch tittle, either for march or november.
maybe guerrila?
If someone told you a piece of information in confidence and told you not to tell anyone then why would you even tiptoe around the subject in the 1st place. For example, if you had a mate or "source" at Sony and they casually told you in a chat that PS5 was releasing in April but then prefaced it with "but please promise not to tell anyone I could get in a lot of trouble etc.." then why would you even cryptically bring that up? You understand what I mean? If you do happen to be having a discussion about the PS5 and you let slip that you think it's releasing in April and people press you as to how you know then surely your answer would be that it's just your opinion and take the heat off your mate/source. Not some cryptic game.
Because when you start playing that game you can easily feign clout when you have none and then after the fact if proven wrong just say it was your opinion. Because as you said "a reasonable person would come to the same conclusion", so in that case anyone can be a "leaker" and we've seen a number of non-verified users on here have unsubstantiated "insider" statues based on cryptic posts like this and get 1 right based on what amounts to a guess. Unlike say the cut and dry leaks in the past from users like shinobi who just say as a matter of fact Horizon will have robot beasts or that DS will be at the TGA or that God of War will be Norse etc...
I expect 99% of what verified users or "leakers" on here to post is just opinion, that's the nature of the forum. They're here to discuss a hobby they love, not constantly leak information. But when they do feel the need to "leak" information I prefer if they're more straight forward about it rather than being cryptic. If they're being cryptic to protect sources then honestly it's best not to say anything now and just save it for when they can if they can.
If developers don't have engineering silicon dev kits by the end of this year, it's time to worry, because production chips need to kick off in Q2 or early Q3 at the latest.
This is where the aimed for late 2019 launch of PS5 becomes fascinating. If it was true at some point (and I really do believe Matt on this) then I would think 1st party would've already had such engineering silicon kits? And AMD have had Zen2 and Navi in the labs for a good while now too. If the delay did happen, what can/will Sony do with the extra time realistically?
As much as I look forward to next-gen consoles I really do hope we get a postmortem of how they came to be and specifics about any such delay.
There was a rumor that Navi needed to be re-taped. That could have forced Sony's hand just as much as market conditions. Plus they don't want to have another Vega with dead features situation on their hands.
Yeah but the main claim of a delay here stated it happened in 2017 and was BC related? The retape thing was said to be part of the dev cycle and a normal development thing was it not? Would it really force up to a year delay and, if so, would it actually be enough time to make substantially changes?
So many unanswered questions...That would be instantly forgotten if we got a big leak or major announcement!
Once we see what Navi is in EOM April/May we won't have to guess too hard anymore. We'll pretty much know. I would guess some of this secrecy is also for AMD's benefit for their reveal. MS will give us the goods at E3 for sure after Navi is out in the open.
But those were also released during a wealth of third party stuff and were not new software libraries and did not have the promise of any exclusive software coming. Plus current gen controllers worked on them
Yes, they usually plan a respin in the schedule. If they were targeting a window of the year, that could throw things off, though.
And they would get that software, later. For a March launch it would not be needed. The mid-gen refreshes being called a post and Xbox One doesn't matter. Maybe casuals wouldn't want the PS5 without exclusives, but they wouldn't be needed yet.
It working for Nintendo want weird at all. Hell, it worked for them despite people needing to buy those ports of Wii U games at full price, while this hypothetical March PS5 would upgrade your PS4 games for free. And again, it doesn't have to grab most people. Remember, I'm taking about a scenario where the next Xbox is releasing in November 2020 at the same time as most of the next-gen games, while the PS5 launches in March without true next-gen titles, but with enhanced BC and the prestigious status of the best place to play most games for 6-7 months. Even if that only resonates with 5-10 million people, that means the PS5 walks into the holiday season with a 5-10 million sales lead, with a bunch of people who might have gone for Xbox if they'd released at the same time now invested in the PlayStation ecosystem because they bought the only next-gen console available. It would also let Sony commission some early demos of the upcoming next-gen games, or next-gen exclusive modes for PS4 games (like a Legendary Dark Knight mode for DMC5) that would logically be exclusive to their next-gen platform due to it being the only one out. I'm not seeing any real downside to this - you seem to think that people would somehow be mad that there were no PS5 games for their PS5, but I really, really don't think they would give a shit. Especially not if all PS4 games started being branded as 'PS4+PS5' games with 'plays best on PS5' decals. They'd understand. Hell, they'd be happy there weren't 2 versions you had to choose from. Sony has built a brand that people trust, it's why the PS4 sold in drives with nothing but Killzone, Knack, cross-gen games and no BC.
So at this point what sort of AI advancements are we hoping to see next gen both in the consoles and on the dev side of things? We had that recent rumor of Microsoft having an AI chip in the next Xbox, so that should help a lot in offloading work from the CPU. We've also got stuff like AI taking older games and making them look better. What sort of things are we realistically expecting or even hoping to see?
We need to beat Ashina to reveal the ps5 and xbox , get the katana's!!!!
60fps in EVERY single cross-gen game would be very meaningful. Current gen console s couldn't do that.
Ya know I've always wondered this but I'm not sure if it's a silly question or not. The same way that most TVs use motion interpolation to generate new frames between existing ones, would it be possible to build an advanced version of something like that into the consoles themselves that can take lower framerate games and boost them up? Is something like that already used at all? Is it just not desirable to use something like that? I figure that MI varies a lot between different TVs and brands, so if it were something built into the console itself that'd give a nice bit of consistency.
If I remember correctly, SW The force Unleashed 2 had some tech demos where LucasArts showed something similar. But it was for demos only.
DF had an article about it.
And I think that the PSVR uses something like that to make 60fps games go 120fps, if I remember some interviews when it launched right.
Nifty, I completely forgot about PSVR taking lower FPS games and bumping them up. Although I also have to wonder if that's just a direct extension of the tech used on TVs being applied to the display, or if that's the hardware doing all of that before it hits the display in a way that could be applied to other consoles?
I have to imagine a solution like that might be an acceptable solution for next gen games that target graphics over frame rate, but still want to achieve a frame rate over 30 FPS, no?
Nah, this is a new generation not a mid Gen refresh. I want to see next gen games at launch.
I think...psvr does that to garauntee a solid 60 plus framerate. Can anyone back me up on that? It's just from memory
Yeah, I'm not gonna pretend to know how this would work or how well it would work but I have to imagine next gen consoles would be more capable than a TV to provide a quality motion interpolation experience, even moreso if they have dedicated hardware for it. I know a lot of people hate MI for giving a "soap opera" effect, but I do feel the tech has improved a fair amount. I know some of those techniques are going to vary depending on the TVs panel refresh rate, so I guess I'm only talking about the possibility of the console taking a 30 FPS image and using MI to bump it up to 60 FPS, or something along those lines. Always been curious if that would work.
Whoah boy at some of those DS4 concepts lol. I haven't seen the presentation yet, but i'm going to assume all of those controllers weren't in the same level of concept development as some others. Besides the obvious ones, there's some that looked like they reached a certain point in physical concept and were like "eh, this isn't going anywhere. let's move on"
I may be wrong but I believe the ps4 itself does it for vr and the results are fantastic.
I would be much happier having a ps5 that does that + checkerboard + way more graphical quality /environment density than native 4k/60
Outside of exclusive most games will be cross-gen at launch. And even the exclusives will be cross-gen like Halo Infinite and pretty much everything Sony has announced.
IIRC some internal dev guideline docs for Scorpio were leaked (I think before the machine released) that mentioned framerate upscaling. I don't believe any game with X support has implemented it, however.
I know it wouldn't match the quality of an actual 60 FPS game, but I think if they could get a MI technique baked into the consoles that bumps any sub-60 FPS game up to 60 FPS then that could be a nice selling point because then you can claim your console plays everything in 60 FPS.
I'm guessing a chip for MI wouldn't have to be on the APU since TVs can do it. I suppose the introduction of more lag could be a downside, but if it's baked into the console I dunno how much more that would realistically add vs. what a TV does.
Anyways, I just figured I'd bring it up since there's always an argument from the crowd who wants FPS vs. the crowd who wants improved graphics and bigger, more complex worlds. I thought this could be a good middle ground to let you have both.
I'm guessing a chip for MI wouldn't have to be on the APU since TVs can do it. I suppose the introduction of more lag could be a downside, but if it's baked into the console I dunno how much more that would realistically add vs. what a TV does.
Anyways, I just figured I'd bring it up since there's always an argument from the crowd who wants FPS vs. the crowd who wants improved graphics and bigger, more complex worlds. I thought this could be a good middle ground to let you have both.
I wonder what made them change there launch strategy so radically to not include next gen launch exclusives.
If what you are saying turns out true
Only because its vr and the minimum framerate to not cause sickness is 60 the interpolation just makes it feel better.
Dunno, but TVs are capable of creating frames between the ones they receive to create a smoother image so I figured why not just put that tech into consoles to get a smoother experience. Admittedly I don't know what FPS the end result would be, whether it could realistically take a 30 fps input and make it 60 fps or it it would need more frames to be input.
Ahh, didn't see that part. Nevermind that then.
Thanks 😃
I'm hoping some could confirm this for next gen as well. But I don't know if 1440p is even a priority for sony.
Admittedly I don't know how TVs doing it, but I would think interpolation would need both frame 1 and 2 to calculate frame 1.5. If that's how it'd work, it'd defeat the purpose since you'd need to add a frame of lag.
What your talking about is motion interpolation. It doesn't increase framerate at all. It is essentially a motion smoothing effect that creates fake frames to create something resembling a higher FPS. It doesn't make games feel as responsive as they do at 60 FPS tho, and in fact makes them feel far, far worse due to extreme input latency. It also honestly doesn't replicate the same smoothness as an actual 60 FPS presentation either, as you can still see judder and such in the image. It just isn't worth including Imo, it is not meant for gaming, and actually worsens the gameplay experience.
Unless you run the game logic and input at 60fps, but render from the GPU at 30fps - this which means you will reduce input lag compared to just interpolating.
Most games have a few frames of lag anyway, I would be interested to do a blind test on this. Certainly with people apparently playing games on streaming services with 200ms+ of lag it would be way better than that. Interpolating would add 33ms of lag onto whatever your normal lag is by rendering 1 30 frame ahead. Certainly possible to have 100-120ms input lag if you run your game logic and input at 60fps, which isn't that far off normal 30fps games but it would look way smoother.
A checkerboarded, interpolated game would be able to do impressive things compared to a native 4K60 game - it would use about 30% of the GPU in comparison. Yes it would have more artefacts and yes it would probably have about the response time of a 30fps game if you run the engine on the CPU at 60. But still, the amount of GPU grunt you save (70-ish%) would more than make up for the kinds of graphics and smoothness you could get.
But my understanding is that you need at least 60fps for the interpolation to look convincing. I mention it because, if true, that would seem to be a nail in the coffin for any hope of interpolating to 60fps rather than above it.
With PSVR reprojection is automatically done by the GPU by the PSVR API in conjunction with the current motion of the headset. The software needs to know the user headset current motion in order to approximately predict the location to interpolate a frame (from memory I think just the same previous frame) just before the next computed new frame. This is why the tech does not add input lag and can't be used on TVs (on TVs motion interpolation adds latency). Both techs are different, they don't do the same thing.
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