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When will the first 'next gen' console be revealed?

  • First half of 2019

    Votes: 593 15.6%
  • Second half of 2019(let's say post E3)

    Votes: 1,361 35.9%
  • First half of 2020

    Votes: 1,675 44.2%
  • 2021 :^)

    Votes: 161 4.2%

  • Total voters
    3,790
  • Poll closed .
Status
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Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
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Oct 28, 2017
6,943
Please, Microsoft, don't go 60 fps for Halo in single player again. Halo 5 was so limited because of 60 fps and that is there most important game. There is a reason Uncharted, HZD or GoW target 30 fps - they want to wow people and it worked wonders for them.
Microsoft had the worse specs and halved the render time for Halo 5...
For multiplayer, they can go 60 fps but for single player, please go 30 andv double down on presentation.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,845
Please, Microsoft, don't go 60 fps for Halo in single player again. Halo 5 was so limited because of 60 fps and that is there most important game. There is a reason Uncharted, HZD or GoW target 30 fps - they want to wow people and it worked wonders for them.
Microsoft had the worse specs and halved the render time for Halo 5...
For multiplayer, they can go 60 fps but for single player, please go 30 andv double down on presentation.
i think the reason why they can do 60fps, is because that this is a cross gen game. so it will run at, say, 900p 30fps on xbox one while running at native 4k 60fps on the premium scarlett console.
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
6,095
Yeah the delay rumors are becoming more and more credible..

As pennello was nice enough to inform us in this very thread not long ago. If their was a delay from Sony it's due to tech reasons, either console they specced out was too expensive or they decided to increase specs. Either thing, is a good sign. So personally I actually encouraged by the delay. Hypothetically hitting $400 in 2020 rather than $500 in 2019 would be killer on so many levels. Not to mention the devs would get extra time on software. We know how well it worked for god of war and looking like days gone now
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
You must have run out of straw by now for all the strawmen you've built on this forum? Surely...

Did I says Halo 4 was not a nice looking game? No.

Did it set a visual benchmark last gen? It certainly didn't.



Don't forget, you're comparing two actual games with an engine demo.

I doubt actual Halo Infinite is going to have that level of geometry complexity and high frequency detail everywhere. At least not if its open world as the demo suggests. The full game will of course be limited by time and budget as all full game projects are, and 323i isn't a particularly huge studio.

Example, compare the U4 in-engine announcement trailer with the final game.



Why are you talking about UE4? What's that got to do with Halo: Infinite and the Slipspace Engine demo?



I don't think this is a reasonable argument at all.

You're essentially assuming that this Halo engine demo comprises the very top end of what is possible graphically next generation.

A) There's no way to know that, and
B) I doubt its even close to being true
Who talked of halo? I replied to your post about the more advanced graphic in RDR2 and FH4 compared Days are gone which is it totally wrong in my opinion. Game at 4K native on the X turn around his limits to reach it and hardly can show expensive rendering tech compared other engine. I don't following your other discussion.
 
Last edited:

ConHaki66

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,968
Please, Microsoft, don't go 60 fps for Halo in single player again. Halo 5 was so limited because of 60 fps and that is there most important game. There is a reason Uncharted, HZD or GoW target 30 fps - they want to wow people and it worked wonders for them.
Microsoft had the worse specs and halved the render time for Halo 5...
For multiplayer, they can go 60 fps but for single player, please go 30 andv double down on presentation.
i dont think that is necessarily true, going by what Bonnie Ross was saying in recent interviews it felt like they were playing catch up with the engine while developing 4 and 5, hence the significant investment in slipspace
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
i think the reason why they can do 60fps, is because that this is a cross gen game. so it will run at, say, 900p 30fps on xbox one while running at native 4k 60fps on the premium scarlett console.
And it would limit the game on Scarlett then. I want to have the best looking Halo possible, people want these awesome looking games. If you want to sell a new system, you have to convince people to buy it and especially in the beginning of a generation, that's graphics.
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
Exactly..... and I can't evn understand why someone from DF would feed into that rhetoric when they of all people should know better.

I have a PS4pro, Gaming on a 55" 4k HDR TV. And I can confirm this much, outside the games looking "sharper" they look identical to their PS4 counterparts. Resolution and a few better things here and there are all these mid gen consoles add to the table.
Many and if not most of games has higher graphic settings and far better performance too on premium console. People tend to forget it too easily. Couldn't be that special for some but it's an appreciable boost.
 

FSavage

Member
Oct 30, 2017
562
As pennello was nice enough to inform us in this very thread not long ago. If their was a delay from Sony it's due to tech reasons, either console they specced out was too expensive or they decided to increase specs. Either thing, is a good sign. So personally I actually encouraged by the delay. Hypothetically hitting $400 in 2020 rather than $500 in 2019 would be killer on so many levels. Not to mention the devs would get extra time on software. We know how well it worked for god of war and looking like days gone now

Yeah if the delay truly happened, I hope Sony decided on it early enough to make significant improvements. If they overspecced the console and need to wait 6-12 months for the component prices to drop... that would be interesting too.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,388
Many and if not most of games has higher graphic settings and far better performance too on premium console. People tend to forget it too easily. Couldn't be that special for some but it's an appreciable boost.
As an owner of both enhanced consoles and someone who has followed a lot of technical breakdowns, the majority of the improvements are just increases in resolution (this can include increased shadow/texture resolutions as well). There are rarely any improvements or differences in the actual assets or rendering methods. Performance is generally more stable, but I wouldn't call it far better.
 

Deep Friar

Member
Mar 17, 2018
779
Exactly..... and I can't evn understand why someone from DF would feed into that rhetoric when they of all people should know better.

I have a PS4pro, Gaming on a 55" 4k HDR TV. And I can confirm this much, outside the games looking "sharper" they look identical to their PS4 counterparts. Resolution and a few better things here and there are all these mid gen consoles add to the table.

I'm surprised too, they were among the last people I expected to buy into that mindset.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
Who talked of halo? I replied to your post about the more advanced graphic in RDR2 and FH4 compared Days are gone which is it totally wrong in my opinion. Game at 4K native on the X turn around his limits to reach it and hardly can show expensive rendering tech compared other engine. I don't following your other discussion.

What are you even talking about?

I never made a post comparing RDR2 and FH4 to Days Gone.

I compared those games to the Halo Infinite demo.

I think you misread that initial post.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
Please, Microsoft, don't go 60 fps for Halo in single player again. Halo 5 was so limited because of 60 fps and that is there most important game. There is a reason Uncharted, HZD or GoW target 30 fps - they want to wow people and it worked wonders for them.
Microsoft had the worse specs and halved the render time for Halo 5...
For multiplayer, they can go 60 fps but for single player, please go 30 andv double down on presentation.

Well, if next-gen MS has the most powerful hardware (and by the margin some are predicting here) they will be able to do 60fps and still melt faces.

Best of both worlds.
 

RevengeTaken

Banned
Aug 12, 2018
1,711
P.S. I don't understand the obsession about the Halo Infinite Teaser Trailer in the recent pages of the thread.
why? people saying that Halo: Infinite's in-engine teaser somehow is what we're gonna see as next-generation graphics and we said there are more than enough current gen titles (including RDR2, HZD, DG etc) that already looked better than that in-engine demo. 60fps asaide, RDR looks significantly better than this:
image_red_dead_redemption_2-39488-3730_0006.jpg

image_halo_infinite-38433-4092_0012.jpg
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
6,095
Yeah if the delay truly happened, I hope Sony decided on it early enough to make significant improvements. If they overspecced the console and need to wait 6-12 months for the component prices to drop... that would be interesting too.

From the way Penello said it, and he would know what a console launch is like, he said he REALLY doubts that Sony would delay and just launch with what they intended in 2019. Either scenario is a positive to me, although having to wait for the BOM is particularly interesting considering what that could mean. I have noticed a lack of "fear mongering" about about 8tf and what not on this thread since his presence
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
From the way Penello said it, and he would know what a console launch is like, he said he REALLY doubts that Sony would delay and just launch with what they intended in 2019. Either scenario is a positive to me, although having to wait for the BOM is particularly interesting considering what that could mean. I have noticed a lack of "fear mongering" about about 8tf and what not on this thread since his presence

Wait, what? That isn't how I read his posts. If Sony decided they wanted more power and lets say as an example they were ~8TF for a 2019 launch and chose to delay to 2020 for 12TF, then it would require a complete from scratch redesign of the entire system (as Albert explained) and that won't happen in anywhere close to a year. It would be tweaks in a ~12 month time frame.
 
OP
OP
Phoenix Splash
Mar 23, 2018
2,654
why? people saying that Halo: Infinite's in-engine teaser somehow is what we're gonna see as next-generation graphics and we said there are more than enough current gen titles (including RDR2, HZD, DG etc) that already looked better than that in-engine demo. 60fps asaide, RDR looks significantly better than this:


60FPS aside is a significant aside depending on the game, though.

About the in-engine trailer, I don't think anything we say about it can be set in stone until we watch a gameplay trailer. Later this year, hopefully. I know I didn't think "these are the best visuals I've ever seen" when they revealed it, but what they showed did make me get a message: they're going back to the simpler and cleaner visual style from previous Halo games. Dunno if that was their intention, so it's subjective.
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
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Feb 19, 2018
6,095
Wait, what? That isn't how I read his posts. If Sony decided they wanted more power and lets say as an example they were ~8TF for a 2019 launch and chose to delay to 2020 for 12TF, then it would require a complete from scratch redesign of the entire system (as Albert explained) and that won't happen in anywhere close to a year. It would be tweaks in a ~12 month time frame.

Considering rumour of delay dates to early 2018 late 2017 (if I recall), we are talking about 2 possible, three years
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,257
Are we back on this again?

8 TF is illogical nonsense from the start. I refuse to believe anyone has been working on an 8TF flagship next gen console.

Can we move on?
 

RevengeTaken

Banned
Aug 12, 2018
1,711
60FPS aside is a significant aside depending on the game, though.

About the in-engine trailer, I don't think anything we say about it can be set in stone until we watch a gameplay trailer. Later this year, hopefully. I know I didn't think "these are the best visuals I've ever seen" when they revealed it, but what they showed did make me get a message: they're going back to the simpler and cleaner visual style from previous Halo games. Dunno if that was their intention, so it's subjective.
Read Dead 2 could run 60fps on next gen HW and still look way better than that teaser. i don't understand why people and specifically DF author saying this is what we're gonna see as next gen graphics even for an open world game with bland environments like this!
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
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Feb 19, 2018
6,095
Read Dead 2 could run 60fps on next gen HW and still look way better than that teaser. i don't understand why people and specifically DF author saying this is what we're gonna see as next gen graphics even for an open world game with bland environments like this!
Plot twist, halo infinite runs at 120 fps.

I'm bullshitting of course lol
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
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Feb 19, 2018
6,095
As all rumours go the one about a delay is arguably the most vague and all we really have for a 2017 delay was to add BC, not to boost the spec.

Yes

Extending planning a year two years before launch means a lot can be done. It's not a last minute clock boost.

And most definitely yes. Going back to he sentiments from someone in the know, it wouldn't make sense to launch what you planned in 2019 for 2020. If you're taking two years to add BC, you're going to utilize that time for other things too
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
Extending planning a year two years before launch means a lot can be done. It's not a last minute clock boost.

From everything I've read I understand it that these consoles are loosely locked ~2 years from release. If you want higher specs at that point then it is virtually starting from scratch as the whole system is designed around a certain spec/price right near the start of a 4+ year process.
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
10,518
Chicagoland
Are we back on this again?

8 TF is illogical nonsense from the start. I refuse to believe anyone has been working on an 8TF flagship next gen console.

Can we move on?

Yep, I could not agree more.

I am sticking with the estimate set by Richard on Eurogamer / Digital Foundry, that was 11 to 15 TF. He did note that was a rather large window.
Now I think, if you cut out the lowest and the highest of that estimate, you're left with a range of 12 to 14 TFlops.

I think that twice the GPU performance of Xbox One X is doable for a console launching in 2020. Richard said basically the same thing.
 

Trieu

Member
Feb 22, 2019
1,774
Yep, I could not agree more.

I am sticking with the estimate set by Richard on Eurogamer / Digital Foundry, that was 11 to 15 TF. He did note that was a rather large window.
Now I think, if you cut out the lowest and the highest of that estimate, you're left with a range of 12 to 14 TFlops.

I think that twice the GPU performance of Xbox One X is doable for a console launching in 2020. Richard said basically the same thing.

Just out of curiosity how do you think they are going to achieve 14 TFLOPS? Do you mean the rumored high end Xbox Scarlett one or the PS5?
 

Barsi

alt account
Banned
Jan 21, 2019
350
Yep, I could not agree more.

I am sticking with the estimate set by Richard on Eurogamer / Digital Foundry, that was 11 to 15 TF. He did note that was a rather large window.
Now I think, if you cut out the lowest and the highest of that estimate, you're left with a range of 12 to 14 TFlops.

I think that twice the GPU performance of Xbox One X is doable for a console launching in 2020. Richard said basically the same thing.
Man I just ask how? Get to reality guys!

They just launched a 7nm going with 13 tflops and 300w tdp.

If next gen has 10 tflops will be a miracle.

8-9 is probably where we gonna set
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,556
Man I just ask how? Get to reality guys!

They just launched a 7nm going with 13 tflops and 300w tdp.

If next gen has 10 tflops will be a miracle.

8-9 is probably where we gonna set

It would be incredibly disappointing if it's only 2-3 more TFs stronger than an X in regards to a GPU.
 

Yoday

Member
Apr 8, 2018
72
HZD is very, very stable 30.But i'm not talking about frame-rates. Also, those high poly meshes and craggy sillhouettes doesn't give suddenly to game a next-gen look. There's a bunch other stuff. Especially scene with Warthog. That doesn't look next-gen to me at all. Trees especially. HZD and RDR 2 are still on par with that trailer graphically speaking and next-gen should do better than that. Well, what the hell i know.
Um...what? Horizon and RDR2 don't come remotely close to that demo. The scale, geometry, LoDs, lighting, reflections, alpha effects, particle systems, textures, character models, shadows, and water effects are all a huge step up...and it's at double the framerate.

This is like the inverse of the people at the start of this gen that thought a remaster looked "next gen" because it was bumped up to 1080p.
 

Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,608
Man I just ask how? Get to reality guys!

They just launched a 7nm going with 13 tflops and 300w tdp.

If next gen has 10 tflops will be a miracle.

8-9 is probably where we gonna set
The answer will be simple. Copy Nintendo, don't mention anything about the specs. Instead create a new term, like gigaray.
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,473
You really do think this is the kind of graphics we're gonna see on next-gen xbox?!
image_halo_infinite-38433-4092_0012.jpg

image_halo_infinite-38433-4092_0010.jpg


it doesn't even look near as good as RDR2, Horizon ZD and Days Gone!
Ignoring the fact that your clearly focused on two particular shots rather than the rest of the trailer, this should be pointed out:
A lot of the underlying tech that was being built for Slipspace at the time of this trailer, was none of the rendering technology and so we needed to create obviously a pretty good-looking trailer. But none of that technology at the time was essentially being worked on and so around the time that this trailer was being made, they actually had to kind of go all hands on deck with certain people. Have them focus more on some of the rendering technology and some of the different graphical enhancements that we were talking about, but even then this is not the final... what you see there is not the final suite of what will be in halo infinite.
They also talked about how Slipspace is still very much in development, that there are placeholder assets in the trailer and that the game as of that stream (December) looks better than the E3 footage. Though I still disagree with you, the trailer looks better than those games. But the fact that your only focusing on certain shots, when the rest of the trailer looks graphically really nice makes it hard to take you seriously.
 

Hudsoniscool

Banned
Jun 5, 2018
1,495
Ignoring the fact that your clearly focused on two particular shots rather than the rest of the trailer, this should be pointed out:

They also talked about how Slipspace is still very much in development, that there are placeholder assets in the trailer and that the game as of that stream (December) looks better than the E3 footage. Though I still disagree with you, the trailer looks better than those games. But the fact that your only focusing on certain shots, when the rest of the trailer looks graphically really nice makes it hard to take you seriously.[/QUOTE]


Agreed. Picks out the worst shots in the trailer and ignores the good ones. How bout taking a look at the sand on the beach shot...

I won't speak on HZD since I haven't played it but I have RDR2 for my X. And after watching the slipspace engine demo in 4K. I can easily say it blows away RDR2. Of course it's just an engine demo let's see what the game looks like.
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
why? people saying that Halo: Infinite's in-engine teaser somehow is what we're gonna see as next-generation graphics and we said there are more than enough current gen titles (including RDR2, HZD, DG etc) that already looked better than that in-engine demo. 60fps asaide, RDR looks significantly better than this.
Nothing in this trailer says that it was targeted for next gen consoles. Nothing. The only thing it says is that the engine is their new Halo engine that afaik is still in heavy development. Also the things you just talk about are a matter of taste and art style and has simply nothing to do with next gen consoles other they will eventually run the game. In addition to that someone could easily select other screenshots which could lead to another conclusion than the one you just made.

Which leads me to my opinion that is, tbh, this sort of screenshot comparison is totally stupid especially in this thread. This is also the reason the is my first and last comment on this in my opinion off-topic matter.

P.S. Maybe it was a mistake to make my initial comment about this which was more of a subtle hint how that discussion is so off-topic to me. I should have known that people like to make a fight about everything.
 

El-Pistolero

Banned
Jan 4, 2018
1,308
And it would limit the game on Scarlett then. I want to have the best looking Halo possible, people want these awesome looking games. If you want to sell a new system, you have to convince people to buy it and especially in the beginning of a generation, that's graphics.

Responsiveness is more important for a shooter, so, no, they should not be sacrificing framerate that at the altar of sweeter graphics.
 

Deleted member 36493

User requested account closure
Member
Dec 19, 2017
4,982
I think that Slipspace definitely had a next-gen look to it, but some of those animal animations looked off and a little stiff. That will probably be fixed though so what does it matter.
 

El-Pistolero

Banned
Jan 4, 2018
1,308
It would be incredibly disappointing if it's only 2-3 more TFs stronger than an X in regards to a GPU.

The Xbox One X was not, and will never be fully exploited. The games you see running on it have all been built with the limitations of the base console in mind. A platform that is only 2-3 more TFs stronger -as you suggested and equipped with a powerful CPU, would leave all titles running on the X in the dust.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,207
Dark Space
why? people saying that Halo: Infinite's in-engine teaser somehow is what we're gonna see as next-generation graphics and we said there are more than enough current gen titles (including RDR2, HZD, DG etc) that already looked better than that in-engine demo. 60fps asaide, RDR looks significantly better than this:
image_red_dead_redemption_2-39488-3730_0006.jpg

image_halo_infinite-38433-4092_0012.jpg
Even comparing these cherry picked shots, the fidelity in the Halo pic is clearly superior, and was running at 60fps.
 

Albert Penello

Verified
Nov 2, 2017
320
Redmond, WA
Wait, what? That isn't how I read his posts. If Sony decided they wanted more power and lets say as an example they were ~8TF for a 2019 launch and chose to delay to 2020 for 12TF, then it would require a complete from scratch redesign of the entire system (as Albert explained) and that won't happen in anywhere close to a year. It would be tweaks in a ~12 month time frame.

I can see how both interpretations would seem in conflict.

To be clear (and I have no insight into Sony's plans) I did say it's unlikely they would delay from 2019 to 2020 and ship the same product. The only reason to delay a year and ship the same thing would be for better yields/costs - but in reality if they thought they could get a head-start on Xbox that would FAR outweigh the benefits of the cost improvements.

And I did say you could make some changes last minute - the PS4 upgrade to 8gb was pretty late in the game (less than a year before launch IIRC) and that's very plausible to me.

You also have to assume some level of delay between when Sony planned to do something, and when rumors start to spread publicly. So it's conceivable to me that, by pushing out a full year (if that's even true), you could make changes.

Also - why do people assume the change was to upgrade? Maybe they intended to do ALL the Tflops, figured out it was going to be much too expensive, and downgraded.

Point is, we don't know when, or if, they decided to delay. So the changes could be major, they could be minor. They could plan to upgrade, they could plan to downgrade. Only they know.

My bet is that if it's even true they did delay a year, it's like to mean a change of some sort.
 

discotrigger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
561
Many developers are preparing for the next generation whether they are aware of the specs or not, so they're likely to show off some new techniques and optimized versions of existing techniques that haven't been used quite so often until now, not to mention possibly novel uses of NVIDIA's raytracing hardware. Games aren't made solely for consoles either, so these kinds of advancements don't have to depend on anyone having Navi in-hand or anything. In fact, most GDCs show off a few things that aren't being used on the current generation of consoles.
 

tusharngf

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,288
Lordran
AMD patent could bring Nvidia's variable rate shading to Navi and next-gen consoles
Variable rate shading (VRS) is essentially a method for optimising the amount of work that your graphics silicon has to do at any one time. The idea being that because huge parts of a scene don't actually change that much from frame-to-frame, yet the GPU has to start more or less afresh each time, there are potential performance boosts available.


VRS gives the GPU the ability to section out a frame and decide what needs fine grain rendering and which parts don't need to be rendered in full detail. Basically it can vary the rate at which it shades different parts of a frame – sections with a lot of visible detail can remain at the standard rate, while things like walls or the sky can have a lower shading rate. This wouldn't really affect image quality and yet can offer genuine gaming frame rate boosts.



Source: https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/amd-variable-rate-shading-patent-navi-next-gen-consoles
 

Clowns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,873
Since the new Halo will support split screen, wouldn't that also be a factor in not being able to push the graphics as far?
 
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