10tf minimum with other parts up to par console for 399$. I'm wondering where all this confidence in amd gpu's is coming from.
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Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
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PS5 gpu at 8tf is complete nonsense. If you guys read the Mark Cerny eurogamer article, you'll understand Sony's criteria for next gen. And power is one of the criteria
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...tation-4-pro-how-sony-made-a-4k-games-machine
From the article :
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...tation-4-pro-how-sony-made-a-4k-games-machine
From the article :
lets be clear even a 12tfp gpu isnt the gen jump people think, 4k takes so much gpu resources to do the same thing its not funny. given what we know about what amd had, you would need a discrete gpu to even aproach a genarational leap, and I am not sure amd has a gpu that strong.
The possibilities of a GPU architecture made for 7nm.
Vega 7nm was just a port and it had serious amounts of HW features for compute, these won't be a part of Navi.
So, expect Navi to be similar to Polaris and with frequencies up to 17-1800MHz for dGPU and somewhere around 1300MHz for an APU.
And if they actually solved the 64CU "limit", then a console could have somewhere between 60-80CUs. That is 10-13.3TF which is a very big range of performance, allowing for adjustment for lower/higher clocks depending on yield.
The only question is if the thermals can be balanced, however this is just speculation and we'll get a better idea after the GPU launch in Q3-Q4.
You'll get 10Tflops for 400$ if you're lucky. Vega VII does almost 14Tflops but it is extremely expensive and I doubt Navi will be any cheaper, and then you've got to factor in all of the other components!
GTX 2070 costs pretty much the same my 1080 cost me at release in 2016, yet it isn't really more powerful in terms of benchmark although the story is slightly different with the RTX cores.
Fact is, we haven't been getting the increments in power we are used to, and I feel like next gen might disappoint some. The 500$ price point of the X needs to become standard if we are to expect something powerful enough that we can really call next gen, or else it won't be that much of an upgrade.
its not that gpus are vastly more powerful today, than 2013, they are, but most of that power has been eatean by the jump to 4k.
He also says power is not a goal, just what they can do with that power.
It could still end up being 8tf, don't set yourselves up for disappointment by being convinced it definitely, 100% won't.
Psn now isn't in the same league. I've had both services. Cancelled ps now cause it just didn't make sense. But gamepass makes sense to have if you game on Xbox and arnt a physical media warrior.
Besides every single brand new Microsoft game that goes in there, more and more 3rd parties are putting their games in at launch. Then there's the plethora of AAA games that are only a few years old.
I'm not trying to make this a war between the 2 services. Sony does a lot of great things. Gamepass is just in another league than the other subscription game services right now.
Although whenever Sony is ready to make ps now a real legitimate competitor they can match gamepass or even surpass it.
Yes, however instead of luck.. It might be Sony and Microsoft taking the extra cost.
Navi 10/12 is going to be Polaris 2.0, it is for the mid-range and Navi 20 is the high-end which is coming out sometime in 2020.
We are getting a new architecture, new full-node process and TSMC is most likely the only one creating the chips, which is a good thing. GlobalFoundries 14nm was worse than TSMCs and it was noticable. This time the GPU/CPU won't be held back due to this.
We'll have to wait for the Navi dGPU later in the year if we want any real guesstimations though.
wise words. People care more about arbitrary on paper numbers than they do the actual unit's capability. We saw the same with PS4's GPU and CPU. THe PS5 and the Xbox whatever will be more than capable as new baseline machines.
That is just marketing speak. Both companies will target a price in shops and design around that. If Sony wants 399 at launch, 8TF might happen (depending on what other hardware is in there). The numbers I have seen thrown around in these threads are very optimistic... remember that the big upgrade this gen will be the CPUs. Much better CPU with 8TF GPUs should provide quite a good upgrade.
That being said... I expect 10TF consoles :) Anything above that will be premium tech and will be expensive. MS might push a bit higher *if* they are willing to take a hit or if they have an "entry level" console as well, but I think they shouldn't bother if they can't get at least 20% extra power over PS5.
"Generational leap" is such a nebulous term, but to me at least, a hypothetical 12 teraflop GPU paired with things like checkerboard rendering feels like it would produce results many people would consider a generational leap.
We don't know what launch exclusives both console have ....
Data show that very MOST people want mostly play multiplat blockbuster as cod battlefield assassin's Creed FIFA GTA e rdr.....
Super data which is extremely inaccurate. Basically vgchartz.
That's saying gamepass only has 41 million in revenue durring q3 of 2018. Which would only be 1 million subs. Phil Spencer has already said they have millions of subs.
And if they do only have 1 million subs than all of Microsoft's first party games must be selling really good. State of decay2 and sea of theives both have around 5 million players and Forza horizon 4 has over 7 million.
Didn't know Sony added select PS4 titles as downloads but Microsoft game list for Game Pass is not huge either.
Always guessing, but with some thought behind. Also, I have and always said end of Q1 2020 as release, Q4 2020 worst case.
Some more Navi news this morning:
Our Japanese friend who wrote about AMD Gonzalo is also tweeting about Navi a lot,i found this one interesting:
Google translate:
"It is convinced that Navi 10Lite is not a Windows driver that is visible? Because, PS5 DX ( It will work with OpenGL / Vulkan (FreeBSD) instead of Windows, so you can understand that it only looks at the UNIX-style driver."
Our Japanese friend who wrote about AMD Gonzalo is also tweeting about Navi a lot,i found this one interesting:
Google translate:
"It is convinced that Navi 10Lite is not a Windows driver that is visible? Because, PS5 DX ( It will work with OpenGL / Vulkan (FreeBSD) instead of Windows, so you can understand that it only looks at the UNIX-style driver."
I am still not sure what that chart shows. Are you trying to compare to other services? To GamePass? To Profit? To prove PSNow has revenue?
1. First, it is very important to note that chart is based on made up numbers. Neither Sony nor Microsoft release numbers on either of their services. Secondly, it is basing those numbers on revenue, not profit. Which is a completely misleading number to how profitable a service may be at the time. And it tells us nothing of the expense that revenue may have on per user. Even if we took this report and the author as actual fact there are several obvious points that make it not the PSNow rah-rah moment you think it is.
PSNow is twice the expense on monthly basis compared to GP and even more so compared to EA Access (Xbox or EA Acces Origin) So, naturally, PSNow would be higher on the revenue end. Once again it is profits that should matter. Even attachment rate is much more important to a service like these. I suspect that PSNow current upkeep is drastically more than either any EA subscription or GP just on the simple requirement the service has to license all the other games for streaming and it needs to service those servers to provide streaming. As for user base as we can look at the whole year of the cost of PSNow vs EA Access and it actually shows how popular that EA service relative to PSNow. EA Access is $29 a year compared to over 3 times that for PSNow at $99. Just looking at those numbers as if all users are yearly subscribers means EA Access Xbox has more users subscribing to that service then PSNow has subscribed to that service. EA Access Xbox is shown at 16% means $44 million which in turn is 1,516, 241 subscribers for EA Access on just Xbox ($29/yr). Compared to that PSNow at 52% is $143 million in supposed revenue but only means 1,444,444 subscribers (based on $99/yr) Which means EA Access has a very large attachment rate because it depends on a population of users (Xbox) that is more than half the number of consoles compared to the number of users PSNow has access to. I can guarantee EA Acess with EA owning all the games and only has a downloaded option definitely has a lot fewer costs associated with spending on a user basis than PSNow has to retain their users on revenue end of things as well.
2. In relation to Game Pass, the study and the corresponding chart reflects it was done only a few months after GamePass was released (Q2 of 2018). Which takes one must take into consideration that GP revenue is based on nothing but assumptions. Considering most users were free users (free month) or using that $3 for a month or other deals that happened during those early months it tells us very little about actual numbers in that short period. Once again this is revenue guessing by the studies author, not actual revenue or profit. So those numbers are important to consider with all this. It be much more interesting to see this comparison a Q3 of 2019 when GP has had a chance to actually establish itself (over a year later). Not when the service was only a few months old in relation to another service that had 3 years to establish its user base at the time of this study.
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You really can't work out things that way since MS gives away gave pass or has deals on it fairly often .
Either way it not hard for Sony to match game pass since they add downloads all they would have to do is add there games day 1 .
Of course right now that makes no sense for Sony business wise.
Lockhart Will Be around 8.something tf ....ps5 10.something ...anaconda 12.something/13.something
so basically this is further confirmation that gonzalo is the PS5 apu right? is there anything else we can analyze from this?
if that is a engering sample, safe guess, it seems a 2020 release.
I'm not even sure that Ms see Sony as competitor at this point. I think are more interested in the moves that Google and Amazon are doing .
For us ? I agree more they fight better is
google is a BIG wildcard in all of this. though there are large sections of the US that cant use it.
Probably.PS OS is FreeBSD but it has its own PS API,it doesn't use OpenGL/Vulkan.But his point (caution,this is Google translate after all) is that there is no Navi 10 Lite Windows driver in Gonzalo ,just Unix type driver and FreeBSD is open source Unix type system.
Confidence in Sony
My man
"Won't be much of an upgrade for less than $499"
This statement won't age well.
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Yes it probably is. Logical that the PS5 one would be leaked first.
I thought we all that the only release window would be in 2020.. kinda impossible in 2019..
I mean we do have the CoD rumors at the end of the day
I think the PS4 might be based on the fundamentals of OpenGL but it has its own API called PlayStation Shader Language (PSSL) which is probably way more advanced than OpenGL is nowadays.
SMH. Superdata is a research company owned by Nielsen who use their research data to make estimates. They don't just make things up. Comparing them to VGChartz is laughable.
This is common misinformation a lot of people spread.
FYI, the PS4 has two graphics APIs: The low level GNM and high level GNMX. In order to make it easier for devs to adapt to the PS4 development environment GNMX is meant to have similarities with DirectX and OpenGL but it's still a proprietary API.
Indeed. They'll both be worthwhile upgrades
"Basically VgChartz".
Lol no
Single-digit range would mean it was weaker than Vega 56 [who is near gtx1070].
Single-digit range would mean it was weaker than Vega 56, slower than gtx1070.
Yeah slower than a 1070 in 2020 would be pretty weak.
I'm not really worried about the power of the next gen consoles. I just really hope that the PS5 won't sound like a jet engine.
Well we will see who will they fight At the start of the next gen.....
both Sony and MS have a Different goals
My main gripe. I'd gladly trade a couple of those TF for a state of the art cooling system
If Sony has to make the thing weight 20 pounds to stick in a proper cooler then so be it. This time around gamers will be closely looking at the quality of a system too since the One X raised the bar significantly in terms of build quality.
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