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Hero_of_the_Day

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
17,329
I'm very happy with the visuals seen in Horizon and Ratchet, games a few years in gonna be spectacular.

Yeah, I think we'll be impressed when we see shit for ourselves on our own TV's. As you said, Horizon and Ratchet looked fucking great.

That said, games in general just look fucking great at this point. I just watched the digital foundry video on Last of Us 2. That game looks insane. I would honestly be fine with games not looking hugely improved, but using the higher horse power for other things, like framerates and denser worlds.
 

endlessflood

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,693
Australia (GMT+10)
I know the reflections and the lighting is improved, I was only talking about the models.

The DB11 is also in GT Sport btw:

astonmartindb111656kuc.jpg
Yeah it's in both:
83itcdjb2g451.jpg

why's the UI basically the same?
It's all placeholder stuff. GTS was the same in the run up to release.
 

Smashed_Hulk

Member
Jun 16, 2018
401
Sounds like 2013 all over again. Judging an entire new generation on launch year titles. Smh.

Then the 2nd and 3rd wave of games show up and drop jaws like usual. R&C was INSANELY impressive.This gen is going to be insane
 

RoastBeeph

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,027
I don't really agree with this. I straight up think that Horizon 2 is the best looking game I've ever seen, including the UE5 demo. It's both technically advanced and artistically rich in detail.
I disagree. the Unreal 5 Engine Demo is on another level compared to Horizon 2. They aren't really close. The things happening in the UE5 demo are absurd.

Plus, Horizon was almost all cut scenes, not what it looks like while being played. UE5 demo was in game play.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,117
It amazes me that someone can make a thread out of this call when "next gen" hasn't even started yet.
 

Astronut325

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,948
Los Angeles, CA
Nope, judging by the gameplay section, the cars models are the exact same. (and the hands of the player model too)

GT Sport vs GT7:

gMUEJIN.gif
To be fair, the very first gameplay trailer for GT Sport didn't look anything close to what was delivered. Remember the flat wall and 2D trees on the Nordschielf? I still think PD are going to blow people away as we get closer to launch.
 

Eggiem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,775
I disagree. the Unreal 5 Engine Demo is on another level compared to Horizon 2. They aren't really close. The things happening in the UE5 demo are absurd.
Yes, the lighting was way better and I have to say this demo really spoiled me. Hopefully we will see more of that at the Nvidia show.
 

Kaiserstarky

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,295
Something interesting to note though..

Remember the UE5 demo ? Beyond the nanite and lumen tricks, it was also 1440p reconstructed. And everyone after that was like "oh ok, i'll take that iq if it gives us graphics like that"

Now it's interesting to see devs working on PS5 games for months now, didn't really get that memo i think. They're clearly aiming at native 4k from the screens we saw. Which is a performance killer basically, when you think you need 6 to 8TF to keep same performances on a 4k PS4 game.

Now seeing some of those games have this level of clarity and detail, + different type of next gen light on top of it, in native 4k, that's super impressive knowing the PS5 GPU.

But we'll reach UE5 level when they prioritize assets over resolution.

Most of the games we saw started their development years ago when the devkits where not even out (for example Returnal started in 2017) and the UE5 demo began his development in September 2019 so it's a true next-gen project. I think we gonna have to wait a little to see a game who actually started his development like the UE5 demo with the next-gen in mind.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,607
Nobody's forcing you to get a PS5 this year. I think Ratchet looks genuinely next-gen but if you're not impressed now, just wait until you are.
 

Mory Dunz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,362
Horizon and Ratchet looked amazing, but there was no gameplay there (and I doubt the gameplay will look like that). The ones that did show game play were significantly less impressive. Honestly, they kind of looked like maxed out PC games with worse framerates, and pretty much on par with what Microsoft showed. We may have to wait till mid gen before we really see some jaw dropping stuff.
yeah ratchet had no gameplay at all.....

what presentation did people watch exactly lol
Yeah it's in both:
83itcdjb2g451.jpg

It's all placeholder stuff. GTS was the same in the run up to release.
makes sense. I assume a 2022 release
 
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mcruz79

Member
Apr 28, 2020
2,789
they are only underwhelming because sony did a poor job of showcasing what next gen can do. there were almost zero CPU related enhancements shown and only one instance of ssd's main enhancement shown. they needed to show gameplay. they needed to show destructon. they needed to show physics. they needed to show new world simulations made possible by the cpu. they needed to show fast traversal (not fast travel) of worlds. have aloy fly around the map. show new spiderman NPC behavior. show a more detailed look at the amazing eco system in horizon. show some actual gameplay of why demon souls is a full remake and not just a skin upgrade like SOTC. show weather and damage physics in GT7. its really not that hard.

they did a poor job showcasing the future, but the tech is there. the devs HAVE delivered. sony's marketing let them down.

30EdATv.gif

yPWXmMK.gif

jO25hC.gif

this is a really great post but the question is:
did we really are going to see this features or is what we expect them to exist?
because, for exemple, yes, that ecosystem in the trailer of horizon was mindblowing with those incredible modeled and spectacular animated animals and machines, but, in the gameplay they are really going to have that level of fidelity or animation?
because that looked stunning!
 

ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
I disagree. the Unreal 5 Engine Demo is on another level compared to Horizon 2. They aren't really close. The things happening in the UE5 demo are absurd.

Yeah, but I don't think you can actually make a game that looks like the UE5 demo (or at least not anytime soon). You have a lot more resource available for visuals when all you are doing is a scripted walk through a level with no AI, enemies, game logic, etc. If Horizon or Ratchet actually end up looking like that, then that would be crazy impressive.
 

dd492941

Member
Oct 28, 2017
394
I was personally blown away by horizon, ratchet and clank and kenai. If these are just the launch window games I cant wait to see what sony Santa Monica and naughty dog will show with the new tech.
 

bytesized

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,882
Amsterdam
I was not expecting as much of a jump as we got in the end tbh, I was quite impressed.

In fact, I just don't know how next gen will be able to differentiate itself , frankly. Like, how do you make a ratchet and clank game that looks better than that? I almost thought it was a bit too busy, even. Or GTA7, cars already look photorealistic and have ray traced reflections.

Maybe next next gen will be about standardizing huge fps counts because I really don't know if polygon counts and particle effects are a limitation anymore.
 

Castamere

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,517
Remember, Watch dogs? Remember, AC Unity?

These graphics look attainable, while still being better, and thats great.
 

JasoNsider

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,145
Canada
I disagree. the Unreal 5 Engine Demo is on another level compared to Horizon 2. They aren't really close. The things happening in the UE5 demo are absurd.

Again, yeah, it's all subjective. That's cool if you don't find it looks as good. "Best looking game", to me, is a mix of great technology and art direction. Horizon has both in spades.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,587
Comparing the last, most optimized games of one gen to the first, least optimized games of the next gen is always a bad idea
 

Eggiem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,775
I was not expecting as much of a jump as we got in the end tbh, I was quite impressed.

In fact, I just don't know how next gen will be able to differentiate itself , frankly. Like, how do you make a ratchet and clank game that looks better than that? I almost thought it was a bit too busy, even. Or GTA7, cars already look photorealistic and have ray traced reflections.

Maybe next next gen will be about standardizing huge fps counts because I really don't know if polygon counts and particle effects are a limitation anymore.
No.
 

Neonep

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,746
It takes a while in this field because the developers have to get used to the new tech. TLOU2 looks in a different league than UC4 and those are in the same generation. Image what Capcom games are gonna look like in 3 or 4 years time after they have essentially master what they can do with the RE engine. I only expect to see minor upgrades between early PS5 games and late PS4 games, hell I expect the late PS4 games to look better.
 

Rodderick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
This thread will be laughable in a couple of years, just like similar threads from 2013 are today.
 

Fjordson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,010
As with every generation, games in a few years will bear little resemblance to these launch titles. What we're seeing now is just the tip of the iceberg.

That being said, I thought Ratchet & Clank and Horizon FW looked great.
 

Deleted member 29249

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,634
Higher FPS and faster loading is what next gen will be about for a long time to come. Not a bad thing really, hard to go back to current consoles after using a laptop that plays any game at over 60fps
 

Combo

Banned
Jan 8, 2019
2,437
To all of you who say that you must watch in 4K, that is half the problem. Resolution should not be the major improvement.

I am happy with what I saw, but you simply cannot bring 4K as your main argument.
 

dd492941

Member
Oct 28, 2017
394
Next gens biggest boon is removing crevace shimmying hidden loading sequences
I agree. I also appreciate the fact if they do have those scenes, it will be to show the incredible details, as in the unreal demo. And not simply to load the next scene. Ratchet and clank, even with those hiccups and slightly less then instant load screens screamed next gen. I still hope that given their talent insomniac will tighten up those screens. I was never a huge fan of the ratchet games but for sure im buying it to support them.
 

Boots The God

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
642
Just watched an high version of the GT7 trailer. The game looks good, but did anyone else notice the lights in the tunnel don't turn on until the cars are almost in it? Lol It's a minor detail, but shouldnt that crazy SSD be able to have all that loaded up before hand? Also, the lighting on the cars doesnt kick in right away in the tunnel. I can't unsee it.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,287
To all of you who say that you must watch in 4K, that is half the problem. Resolution should not be the major improvement.

I am happy with what I saw, but you simply cannot bring 4K as your main argument.
4K isn't the main argument. The difference is there to see in 1080p if you are looking extra close, the problem is that a lot of people watched these games in 1080p with YouTube's horrible compression and a lot of detail is lost in lower resolutions on YouTube. It's a lot easier to notice the difference between current and next gen when you are watching in 4K than it is to notice in 1080p with Youtube's terrible compression.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
this is a really great post but the question is:
did we really are going to see this features or is what we expect them to exist?
because, for exemple, yes, that ecosystem in the trailer of horizon was mindblowing with those incredible modeled and spectacular animated animals and machines, but, in the gameplay they are really going to have that level of fidelity or animation?
because that looked stunning!
thats why sony's marketing sucks. we just dont know. people are so used to souped up cutscenes, no one is gonna believe that all that stuff is in game.

every game shouldve had a demo like ratchet.
 

gamersmap

Member
May 28, 2020
44
I was just talking about this in another forum. The tech shown in Rift Apart is beyond anything we have ever seen before. This just can't be over-stated. It is absoulutely the future. The amount of memory and bandwidth that system has to do at that scale (4K) is just insane. I didn't think we would see that level of tech for another few years. The presentation appeared at times better then the full movie they put out a couple years ago! Even that, is under-selling how incredible this tech is!
 

Rat King

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,021
Portugal
Seems very soon to make these statements since we know that launch titles/launch window games never take full advantage of the systems. We'll need at least a couple of years to see the real deals.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,287
Just watched an high version of the GT7 trailer. The game looks good, but did anyone else notice the lights in the tunnel don't turn on until the cars are almost in it? Lol It's a minor detail, but shouldnt that crazy SSD be able to have all that loaded up before hand?
I noticed that too lol. Though to be fair, GT Sport looked rough as hell the first time they showed it. It seems with PD little details like that are ironed out much later in development. Who knows it could be a very early build we are seeing.
 

Grug

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,645
I'm underwhelmed by Fantasvision. I don't think the PS2 is going to make it...
 

Mr_F_Snowman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,879
I was not expecting as much of a jump as we got in the end tbh, I was quite impressed.

In fact, I just don't know how next gen will be able to differentiate itself , frankly. Like, how do you make a ratchet and clank game that looks better than that? I almost thought it was a bit too busy, even. Or GTA7, cars already look photorealistic and have ray traced reflections.

Maybe next next gen will be about standardizing huge fps counts because I really don't know if polygon counts and particle effects are a limitation anymore.

I agree on Ratchet - while it looked great the sheer amount of effects and particles flying everywhere was almost annoying as it made it difficult to tell what was going on lol not sure I'd enjoy playing that honestly.

Realistically if devs go for native 4k + ray tracing on a 10-12 tera flops next gen machine how much wiggle room is left compared to that same fidelity at 1080p minus ray tracing on current gen? Probably very little - hence why Xbox Scarlett is apparently a thing
 

supernormal

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,147
Yeah, I felt the same. One thing I've noticed that really bothers me is that for some reason devs are putting resources into things that kind of already look pretty great and then somehow absolutely neglect the stuff that gives games away immediately. Like we turned amazing landscapes to even more detailed and more amazing, and skin shaders now have even more detail but then we're stuck with clay looking hair and stiff clothing.

I remember jumping gens where little quirks like that would be fixed across the board. Going from PS1 to PS2 had all characters now fully opening their mouths when speaking and now had individual fingers in each hand instead of these huge blocks for hands. Then the gen after that we turned what was mostly baked into a texture for a character's armor and clothes into geometry so we no longer had painted on chains or armor. Then this gen we got actual physically based rendering. I was hoping this would bring a similar visual fix across the board. My hope was for raytracing but these consoles are using it minimally.

That's maybe why my favorite title so far is Kena since these inconsistencies don't seem so evident with the art style. It really looks like perfect CGI in some of the cutscenes.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,912


Hellblade 2 in-engine trailer blew my mind, in a similar fashion to Killzone: Shadow Fall. I think we should see more big budget AAA exclusives before saying next-gen is underwhelming.
 

FrakEarth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,275
Liverpool, UK
I don't find them underwhelming, they're kind of what I expect. Kena surprised me in a kind of - these things really do look like films now, sort of way - but Horizon and many of the other games are actually what I expect from the boost in power... what I expect from what were already very talented art teams on PS4.

I think we're at a point where character models on PS4/XBO - in some games - are insanely good already. There are improvements that can be made, of course, I'm sure we'll see them - but the fundamental high-quality in design is there today. We already have character models that are down-rezzed from insane, beautifully sculpted high definition models. The cars in Gran Turismo always look great. I think to be wowed again, its gonna take some insane, face wrinkling, nose twitching, lip spittle, sub surface scattering and crazy earlobe lighting to make something really really stand out in that department. A kind of level of investment that actually, the ROI may not be that great on - for games where you spend most of your time looking at the back of someones head.

Spiderman impresses me from a lighting perspective, weather particles etc. The fur and foliage in some of the shots from Horizon and other games are a clear improvement in fidelity, but again, kind of what I expect for a big investment in new hardware.

I can sympathise with people who aren't seeing a jump they've maybe been accustomed to in previous generations. I think I actually feel for some of the developers who had their games featured at the show, games that were maybe not graphical powerhouses - but actually looked a lot more fun than some of the cinematic games. Gameplay always > graphics for me.

Ratchet & Clank impressed me with its portal hopping mechanic. It reminded me of the multi-world hopping battle with Malekith at the end of Thor 2 or something. To have geometry from completely different scenes just instantly loading in, shattered in to view like jumping through an orange or blue gate in Portal or something - that really shows the potential in this new architecture, with this added level of RAM and disk read speed. I suspect, the things that make us appreciate next gen the most - will not be just the pretty visuals - but the things like that, which were simply not feasible before.

It makes me hope Nintendo are watching. They used to be all about the low latency, low load time, instant play experience, and I'd love to see them take a few cues for their next console, whatever that is.
 
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mcruz79

Member
Apr 28, 2020
2,789
thats why sony's marketing sucks. we just dont know. people are so used to souped up cutscenes, no one is gonna believe that all that stuff is in game.

every game shouldve had a demo like ratchet.

yes, you are right.
i really hope we can see this level of detail and animation in gameplay.
imagine walk through this world with thousands of living creatures Incredible detailed and moving with this level of animation...
wow!!! Will be mesmerizing if true.
 

hrœrekr

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 3, 2019
1,655
Just watched an high version of the GT7 trailer. The game looks good, but did anyone else notice the lights in the tunnel don't turn on until the cars are almost in it? Lol It's a minor detail, but shouldnt that crazy SSD be able to have all that loaded up before hand? Also, the lighting on the cars doesnt kick in right away in the tunnel. I can't unsee it.

Crazul Ssd is just a marketing bullshit.
No matter the speed, assets still need to be loaded into memory. The memory probably can't handle all the detailed assets and choices need to be made.