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Deleted member 4037

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,989
They originally played BOTW when it came out as part of their job, then two years later played it on their own free time and realized how much more they were enjoying this game they had ostensibly already played when they got to do it on their own terms; that made them realize that they didn't want games to be their job, they wanted games to be their passion, so they quit their job.
Thanks Breath of the Wild, what cant you do.
 

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,137
I bet that's the kind of problem you can turn into an opportunity. Not interested in dating sims told from the perspective of hipster badgers? Well, SOMEONE is, even if it's just the developer, or it wouldn't have been made. Trying to understand the appeal for things you don't personally appreciate is a kind of emotional reverse engineering and could, I suspect, aid with the core of a piece.
A few years back I felt the same way.

Unfortunately, the site I currently write for won't allow me to use words like "I", "me", "myself", and so on.
Now I'm just Joe everyman. Everything is appealing, except when it isn't.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Unfortunately, the site I currently write for won't allow me to use words like "I", "me", "myself", and so on.
Gametrailers had this rule too, but then again, they also had their schtick of writing pieces to be voiced by one person, so that would've been weird. I kind of see why you would avoid overly subjective things. I'm not sure if the goal is to make it more objective even, I suppose it is to remove the personality of it and form one voice for the outlet for the Reader's enjoyment instead of feeling like they're just sifting through a multi-personel diary.
 

ShinNL

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
389
I once had a dream to make my own dream game. Now I'm a full time programmer. No way José I'm spending my free time to program some more. Sorry guys, the best game in the world won't come.
 

raketenrolf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
Germany
I can see why you don't enjoy the job anymore but I also feel like this is the exact reason why I literally never visit any gaming website anymore, even for news. Everything seems too text heavy, too many uninteresting articles (for me). Articles for the sake of having articles. After reading reviews I feel like I don't know much more than before, which is why I just stick to gameplay videos or message boards.

Same for news. I just stick to message boards, read the headline and there's almost everything I need to know. Because I don't need to read 400 words to check out what's new in Nintendo's new Switch model when I can see it all summarized in a nice thread here or on another message board. If I want to know in detail I check out the digital foundry video.

I remember I went to a website after a Direct to check out what games were announced. I just wanted a simple list but couldn't find one. What I got instead was texts describing how they announced stuff. I didn't finish reading it, I just went to a message board, found a list with informations and was satisfied.
 

Goodbye

Member
Oct 27, 2017
547
I've been an editor in chief on a (then) large website in the Netherlands and you're always fighting against time. We were amateurs compared to some of our colleagues but did pretty good. It was a fun time playing games well before release or skipping lines at Gamescom but in the end I prefer playing the games I want when I want.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,693
This is the same reason I never got into visual effects professionally, I would have lost the hobby I enjoy.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
It's always interesting to hear the perspectives of people who turn their hobby into a career. I know I couldn't do it, but I admire those who thrive on it.
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,490
I'm going to be honest and say while I respect there's people working super hard writing all of the articles I absolutely abhor clickbait and I will do anything in my power to personally avoid clicking any until a time comes in which the industry is forced to change from enough people avoiding it and clickbait goes away. I do feel for the people being forced to write this stuff and it's not just articles I also avoid all stupid YouTube thumbnails where possible too.

I'm happy you've found a new better job OP!
 

Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
Sounds like he didn't enjoyed his job anyways, not sure what that has tl do with Breath of the Wild.

Sometimes a change of activities is good for the soul :^)
 

Mack

Banned
May 30, 2019
1,653
I can see why you don't enjoy the job anymore but I also feel like this is the exact reason why I literally never visit any gaming website anymore, even for news. Everything seems too text heavy, too many uninteresting articles (for me). Articles for the sake of having articles. After reading reviews I feel like I don't know much more than before, which is why I just stick to gameplay videos or message boards.

Same for news. I just stick to message boards, read the headline and there's almost everything I need to know. Because I don't need to read 400 words to check out what's new in Nintendo's new Switch model when I can see it all summarized in a nice thread here or on another message board. If I want to know in detail I check out the digital foundry video.

I remember I went to a website after a Direct to check out what games were announced. I just wanted a simple list but couldn't find one. What I got instead was texts describing how they announced stuff. I didn't finish reading it, I just went to a message board, found a list with informations and was satisfied.

Perfectly summed up, my friend.

I wrote for one of the major Polish console gaming websites for 3,5 years. The pay was laughable, we were forced to publish clickbait/tabloid content daily and treated in the way that made us feel that we should be greateful for the opportunity to write about video games. Like we received review versions/codes of games to, well write a review, without any further payment. The game itself was the the gratification, sic! A lot of time down the drain.
 

NateDrake

Member
Oct 24, 2017
7,500
Seriously?
The last offer I got was about 30+ articles a month for $150... a month.
Many sites don't pay you a rate per article anymore, either. Some will only pay once the article gets so many views & you earn a minimum amount. They basically exploit people for free work under the guise of eventual payment, and by the time you cross the payment threshold you have quit the job.

OP seemed to enjoy their time at CB but I have heard a few horror stories about the site and getting them to pay freelancers for work done.
 

Massicot

RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,232
United States
What an interesting read. It sorta shifts my perspective in acting in a similar capacity as 'merely' a hobbyist. I can take a week off due to burnout and not feel guilt or get legitimately punished. Thanks for sharing.
 

olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
While I don't really respect game journalism as a proffesion, I can definately sympathise and understand that eventually the stresses and shit of even your favourite job can get to you and cause you to fatigue quite easily. Its why I took a break from the scientific research field but I hope to go back eventually.

This is why holidays, a reasonable work/home balance and a very deep love for your job are vital in keeping a healthy work life. Usually when things get to tiring people will also change their place of work to keep things fresh and maybe open up new opportunities.

Here's hoping your new job offers you a better home and work situation. Good luck 😁
 

Type422

Member
Nov 28, 2017
374
Having worked in the field before - but for some print mags - I absolutely can relate with it. Yeah, I have some seriously nice memories of that time and I met many cool people that I am still in contact with. But ultimately it threatened to destroy my hobby. Time was scarce even at that time because often review codes arrived just right before our deadline and the article had to be finished by then and that meant many hours of work at home. I left for medschool and that was the best decision of my life. Gaming feels like hobby again and not like a slog.
 

Potterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,416
I have something to say in the matter, I've worked as a gaming journo for about 6 years. I don't anymore but it wasn't because I was burned out. Just some personal issues and opportunity to do something else. I can't do the same thing for more than 5-6 years I guess.

You have to cover what's popular. Fortnite news. Battle royale news all the time when it was popular. Focus on AAA games. Not writing almost anything about indie games. Basically turn off your passion for games while at work - that's how I saw it, lol.

But such mentality helped me to be able to enjoy games in my free times. Yes, indie game reviews were a waste of time but I could enjoy such games after work or during weekends. If you really want to make a living off of it, you have to know two things:

- you will never be able to write everything you would like to write
- sometimes you won't be able to write something negative about some games (not saying about lying, but ignoring some topics - that's for sure)

Also I worked in a large team and fortunately never been forced to review something I didn't want to play.

Also 2.0 - subscription model isn't reliable, is very risky and isn't really a thing outside of English-speaking markets as far as I know from talking to various people from industry during E3 or GDC. Haven't met anyone from non-English outlet making actual living from Patreon-based website.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
I only clicked for the BotW in the title, has nothing to do with OP story. Got to be honest it's a misleading title.
 

DC5remy

Member
Jan 20, 2018
7,588
Denver co
Can very strongly empathize with just about everything in that article. Making a job out of games is soul crushing, and sucks the fun out of the hobby entirely.

I bet this is true of almost any job/hobby crossover.

I used to love cars until I had 10+ year career in aftermarket automotive, now that passion feels empty to me . I still have an Acura I mod, and I do like it, but I dont FEEL it anymore. I don't see the new Supra and get excited at all. But know back in the day I would have freaked out over one.
 

EvilChameleon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,793
Ohio
Ten articles a day is insanity. At that point the site becomes flooded with articles, and then nobody wants to read any of them.
 

ReyVGM

Author - NES Endings Compendium
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
5,438

Jamesac68

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,396
This is exactly why, for me, games writing is hobby. I don't have the writing speed to do it full time, and I don't have the interest to make every article 400+ words. I'm happy if a news piece is 250 words, and anything else is gravy. Five articles a week is plenty for me and I can't say I hit that all the time. So on the one hand, I'll never get rich writing about games. On the other hand, I love writing about games and have been doing it for years with no intention of stopping. But as a hobby, because there's no other way to make it work.
 

Deleted member 46489

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
1,979
While I empathize with the OP in general, this post is all kinds of puzzling. Firstly, if games journalism burned you out then you were never passionate about games writing. You were passionate about playing video games, and confused it for the other. They're two different things.

Secondly, a lot of times when people like something they confuse it for passion. Just wanting to do something or enjoying something doesn't mean it's your passion. My definition of passion is simple. When you're passionate about something, even the boring, tedious parts of that job don't feel boring to you. A couple years ago I took a position as a teacher in the city. The institute was two-and-a-half hours away from my home. So I'd wake up at 4am in the morning, stand in the bus for two hours, reach the class, teach two hours, and then grab breakfast. Oh, and I have severe motion sickness so the bus ride was less than fun. One unlucky day, I had 6 hours of classes without a break. So I was teaching in class standing for 6 hrs without breakfast.

And you know what happened when I came out? I felt no headache, no pain in my legs, no burnout, no frustration. Just a bit hungry. That's when I knew I was passionate about teaching. There have been many more such days, but I never feel burned out. While previous jobs wrung me out like anything. Find a job that does that to you.

Thirdly, following your dreams or your passion doesn't mean anyone should cut you any slack. No one forced you to follow your dreams, and people don't owe you anything. Yes, all of us should be kind and loving to others, but if you put out substandard content, people have every right to call it out. I'm an aspiring writer, and I'm following my dream. But if my story doesn't work, people will tell me it doesn't. And that's great, as long as they're not being assholes about it. Constructive criticism makes us better at our jobs. False compliments only breed mediocrity.

I hope I don't sound too harsh. Burnout is never a good thing, and you have my sympathy. It's just that I don't agree with the assertions and conclusions of your post. I hope you find a job you're happy in.
 

caylen

Publisher - Riot Games
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
139
santa monica
The economics behind more indie journalism (not just in gaming) have shifted dramatically since a decade ago. It's easier to be a YouTuber/social media personality (and get sponsorships/affiliate revenue) than writing your own blog unless you are incredibly lucky or have content that's multiple orders-of-magnitude better than average.

Quoting for truth. Games writers, be they critics, journalists, enthusiasts or even just aggregators have an insanely difficult task in regards to the "business" of the work because of absurdly massive challenges in all digital publications in the west. Even if you have the least-hostile publishing presence in your press business model (no adblock gate, no unrealistic subscription system, transparent or nonexistant endemic advertising) the ad dollars available keep shrinking with an even higher rigor of "is it effective", and then you are "competing" for attention and authority from influencers, who are often (not always, but more common in games!) re-leveraging your work for their content. And that's before you make considerations of many of the major trade publications are finances by either private equity funds with frankly unrealistic timelines for impossible ROI, or publicly traded companies that cannot sustain the annual growth the "market" wishes them to facilitate. The business of games journalism is absurd, no one is really getting rich on it, and it's happening in an era in which the journalism & writing itself has never been better in diversity and quality.

Can't see the article anymore, but I deeply empathize with this author's experience that's stated in the OP. It fucking sucks to become disenchanted by the work you love due to the necessity of making the sausage - at least they are leaving on their own terms.
 

Umbrella Carp

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
3,265
This sort of thing is exactly why Independent media is such a godsend for video game coverage. They can cover what they want, when they want without being told from any suit above that they must write or do a video about such and such game by this time.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,780
I read your entire post, OP, and what I got is that you quit your work because you were overworked. It wasn't the 'quality' of the job you were doing, but the quantity. 10 articles/day is just too much, apart from editorial work, and in addition you were working free hours at home. Because if you play the games you write articles about in your spare time, they are basically extra free hours you were giving to the company.

It's like being a software developer, and having so much work you code for 8 hours/day, and then you return to home and read and reply the work emails there for 90 minutes because you didn't have time to do it in the office because you have lots of tasks to code. Being a software developer doesn't mean 'coding', reading emails or having meeting is ALSO part of the work. In reality you are working 9.5 hours/day, not 8, in this example.
In your case, playing a game to make a review is PART of the work, like playing any game you write articles for, and should be done on your office. Then later in your free time you should be able to play RL if you want.

If you had to write, say, 6 articles/day instead of 10, you surely wouldn't have this problem. They just had to increase staff by 3 or 4 employees to compensate.
The reality is that you had to write 10 articles/day because the competition for your seat is huge, there has to be lots of gamers out there that would like to be a games journalist. With that much supply, they can demand huge amounts of work to the ones that get in, and replace easily the burned outs.
So why hire those 3 or 4 guys if they can gain more profits this way?
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
This is very relatable to me too. I left my software engineering job two and a half years ago, and decided to try my hand at indie development. I absolutely love it, but theres' two things that aren't so enjoyable:
- Anything related to marketing and social media (which for the time being is as little as one tweet a week with a video of whatever I'm working on, but still quite upsets my developing schedule).
- Learning of new, amazing indie games is no longer the unambiguously positive rush it was, but also some combined feeling of inadequacy and fear of overcrowded competition. "There's so many amazing games out there, who's going to buy mine?".
 

Deleted member 46489

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
1,979
What conclusions or assertions did I make that you disagree with, exactly?
Before I begin, let me just reiterate that I feel for you buddy. I know what burnout is like. Since you mentioned that you were even working at home, seems like you had some severe work-life balance issues. Glad you left the job that was making you unhappy.

Firstly, the post seems to imply that people who follow their dreams deserve some special consideration or leeway. Why? I'm following my dream, and I don't think I should be given more slack than a non-dream-following person who creates mediocre content.

You said that people should admire creativity and hard work. But they already do, when the end product is great. Go to PCGamer and read the comments to some of the best articles by Tom Francis or Chris Livingston (he did one about far cry mods that was incredibly funny, and has since written many other great ones). Look how people received Endgame. But no one said Justice League was great. And guess what, lots of hard work and creativity went into that movie too. Entertainment needs to be entertaining. You can't expect the audience to applaud the hard work or the grind when the results are nothing special.

Lastly, I disagree with the way you use the word passion. Your passion didn't run out. You were never passionate about games journalism. And I don't say that to disparage you. I have a law degree, but I was never passionate about practicing law. That would've burned me out.

So now you can look for something you're actually passionate about. And I'm sure you're gonna love that job and knock it out of the park once you do.
 
OP
OP
Cloud-Hidden

Cloud-Hidden

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,990
I read your entire post, OP, and what I got is that you quit your work because you were overworked. It wasn't the 'quality' of the job you were doing, but the quantity. 10 articles/day is just too much, apart from editorial work, and in addition you were working free hours at home. Because if you play the games you write articles about in your spare time, they are basically extra free hours you were giving to the company.

It's like being a software developer, and having so much work you code for 8 hours/day, and then you return to home and read and reply the work emails there for 90 minutes because you didn't have time to do it in the office because you have lots of tasks to code. Being a software developer doesn't mean 'coding', reading emails or having meeting is ALSO part of the work. In reality you are working 9.5 hours/day, not 8, in this example.
In your case, playing a game to make a review is PART of the work, like playing any game you write articles for, and should be done on your office. Then later in your free time you should be able to play RL if you want.

If you had to write, say, 6 articles/day instead of 10, you surely wouldn't have this problem. They just had to increase staff by 3 or 4 employees to compensate.
The reality is that you had to write 10 articles/day because the competition for your seat is huge, there has to be lots of gamers out there that would like to be a games journalist. With that much supply, they can demand huge amounts of work to the ones that get in, and replace easily the burned outs.
So why hire those 3 or 4 guys if they can gain more profits this way?
You're not wrong.
 
OP
OP
Cloud-Hidden

Cloud-Hidden

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,990
Before I begin, let me just reiterate that I feel for you buddy. I know what burnout is like. Since you mentioned that you were even working at home, seems like you had some severe work-life balance issues. Glad you left the job that was making you unhappy.

Firstly, the post seems to imply that people who follow their dreams deserve some special consideration or leeway. Why? I'm following my dream, and I don't think I should be given more slack than a non-dream-following person who creates mediocre content.

You said that people should admire creativity and hard work. But they already do, when the end product is great. Go to PCGamer and read the comments to some of the best articles by Tom Francis or Chris Livingston (he did one about far cry mods that was incredibly funny, and has since written many other great ones). Look how people received Endgame. But no one said Justice League was great. And guess what, lots of hard work and creativity went into that movie too. Entertainment needs to be entertaining. You can't expect the audience to applaud the hard work or the grind when the results are nothing special.

Lastly, I disagree with the way you use the word passion. Your passion didn't run out. You were never passionate about games journalism. And I don't say that to disparage you. I have a law degree, but I was never passionate about practicing law. That would've burned me out.

So now you can look for something you're actually passionate about. And I'm sure you're gonna love that job and knock it out of the park once you do.

This is an insightful post. Thank you for taking the time to clarify what you meant.

I suppose my only rebuttal is to your first point, and I probably owe you clarification as well. I didn't really mean to imply that we should offer undue forgiveness or favor to people who are following their dreams. I was speaking more directly to the (as I perceive it) generally-negative perception and treatment of writers here on era, specifically. Maybe this is 100% an ego thing, but I feel like a lot of the community here is unfairly suspicious of games journalists for no other reason than the fact that they're games journalists. Simple misspellings are often highlighted and jokes are made about editorial standards. Reviewers who don't play games at a high level, or get one detail about a publisher's history wrong are openly mocked. Opinion pieces that could have been altogether ignored are instead often posted here and the author is ridiculed for their opinion.

We sometimes treat writers in this community like we would treat a suspicious politician pandering and lying to get what they want. I just wanted to make the point that, for the most part, these are just people like me and you trying hard to make their dreams come true, and we shouldn't always take ourselves so seriously or be so quick to judge their work, because the behind-the-scenes pressures we're largely ignorant of.

Does that mean that we can't critique articles? Nah, not at all. That's not what I'm getting at. This was just a little soapbox I wanted stand on to preach against the fringe toxicity that I see bubble up a little too often.
 

Deleted member 46489

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
1,979
This is an insightful post. Thank you for taking the time to clarify what you meant.

I suppose my only rebuttal is to your first point, and I probably owe you clarification as well. I didn't really mean to imply that we should offer undue forgiveness or favor to people who are following their dreams. I was speaking more directly to the (as I perceive it) generally-negative perception and treatment of writers here on era, specifically. Maybe this is 100% an ego thing, but I feel like a lot of the community here is unfairly suspicious of games journalists for no other reason than the fact that they're games journalists. Simple misspellings are often highlighted and jokes are made about editorial standards. Reviewers who don't play games at a high level, or get one detail about a publisher's history wrong are openly mocked. Opinion pieces that could have been altogether ignored are instead often posted here and the author is ridiculed for their opinion.

We sometimes treat writers in this community like we would treat a suspicious politician pandering and lying to get what they want. I just wanted to make the point that, for the most part, these are just people like me and you trying hard to make their dreams come true, and we shouldn't always take ourselves so seriously or be so quick to judge their work, because the behind-the-scenes pressures we're largely ignorant of.

Does that mean that we can't critique articles? Nah, not at all. That's not what I'm getting at. This was just a little soapbox I wanted stand on to preach against the fringe toxicity that I see bubble up a little too often.

I totally get you buddy. I think you're doing a good thing by highlighting the pressures of game journalism and embargo deadlines. Hopefully, just like game development and crunching, public awareness of this will grow as journalists share their stories. I understand what you were trying to say better now. :)
 

Phil32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,568
This is a fascinating thread to read with some genuinely informative and worthwhile perspectives on a career I've wanted to get into. I worry that my hobby and joy of playing games and writing about them might get lost if I had to do it for a living, though.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,042
there's certainly something to be said about making your passion into work. for some people, it's the ultimate dream. for others, it quickly becomes clear just how much of that joy is lost when you're turning what you love into a job, with deadlines, writing, note taking, late nights, rushing things, feedback from others (usually negative!), depriving yourself of sleep, depriving yourself of a social life... list goes on. burnout is real.

not as easy as it may seem from the outside.
 

DaveB

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,513
New Hampshire, USA
I ran a gaming site for the better part of a decade and eventually called it quits when it became tougher and tougher to keep/motivate staff. When I was no longer having to rush through games to write timely reviews, I started enjoying them again.

That said, I do occasionally get the itch to give it another go, but life decided for me that it wasn't a good idea: I have a two hour (each way) bus ride for work from Monday to Friday as of five months ago, so I barely have time to even play games other than on Switch.
 
OP
OP
Cloud-Hidden

Cloud-Hidden

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,990
I ran a gaming site for the better part of a decade and eventually called it quits when it became tougher and tougher to keep/motivate staff. When I was no longer having to rush through games to write timely reviews, I started enjoying them again.

That said, I do occasionally get the itch to give it another go, but life decided for me that it wasn't a good idea: I have a two hour (each way) bus ride for work from Monday to Friday as of five months ago, so I barely have time to even play games other than on Switch.
That is a terrible commute... Any chance you could move closer to work?