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Deleted member 4353

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,559
Pure nonsense, also Central park five really?

Whenever I come across topics filled with crap like this and so called youtube "essays" I have to wonder, do you guys actually go out of your way to look for all this bullshit as long as it first your agenda?
 

iamsgod

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
961
And yours isn't?

I mean look, Richard Brody is a foppish oaf who spits out overdetermined bad takes for a living, and everyone in this thread is right to point out what a stretch he's making in places in this article, but I think we're kidding ourselves here if we think that this film's racial and sexual politics are well-thought-through.
let's forget about all the white people he killed
 

Froyo Love

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,503
So because the Joker guns down 3 white men on a subway, it somehow is an allusion to Goetz because the Joker was beaten by 3 black people before? No one needs to defend or argue why Joker isn't alluding to Goetz because the argument that it is, is so dumb.
Goetz: 1980s New York, was mugged and assaulted, started carrying a gun, was confronted on a subway, shot four people, was famously (if probably inaccurately) associated with executing someone after they'd already been shot, fled the city to avoid police, got lots of media attention and became a public figure over the issue of crime in the city.
Joker: pastiche of '70s/'80s New York, was assaulted, started carrying a gun, was confronted on a subway, shot three people, including chasing and murdering one of them who was fleeing, becomes a public figure in the city.

Why is the parallel "so dumb"? It fits very closely, except for the conspicuous difference that Goetz shot black teenagers and Fleck in the film shoots white Wall Street types.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,138
Goetz: 1980s New York, was mugged and assaulted, started carrying a gun, was confronted on a subway, shot four people, was famously (if probably inaccurately) associated with executing someone after they'd already been shot, fled the city to avoid police, got lots of media attention and became a public figure over the issue of crime in the city.
Joker: pastiche of '70s/'80s New York, was assaulted, started carrying a gun, was confronted on a subway, shot three people, including chasing and murdering one of them who was fleeing, becomes a public figure in the city.

Why is the parallel "so dumb"? It fits very closely, except for the conspicuous difference that Goetz shot black teenagers and Fleck in the film shoots white Wall Street types.
Real life: people buy guns after incidents in where their safety was compromised. Some of those gun owners actually shoot people with said guns.

You should probably watch the movie before you start defending an article people who've seen the movie are laughing at.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,301
A year from now, will everyone look back at the hysteria this Joker movie made with embarrassment?
 

el jacko

Member
Dec 12, 2017
947
So you think the crew behind this film purposely put black women in these positions? Like, there are talks and meetings of how to min/max what happens to black women? Or is it possible that the Joker basically fucks up everyone's life regardless of race, status, etc?
It would be insane if the casting decisions were, like, "let's kill & stalk a bunch of black womens!" - that obviously didn't happen. But it's possible they produced a movie where the victims of gross actions are disproportionately brown women, and nobody in the editing room (or at the time of casting) took note and said, "actually this is kinda fucked up, we should change/reshoot one or two of these scenes!" And then the movie is contributing to a long history of unintentionally discriminating against (or punishing) brown women - of which there is a long history in American cinema.

I have no judgements on the film, I haven't seen it. But it's entirely possible for the production crew to make a film which punishes PoC without intentionally trying to, simply out of ignorance of race issues, which is what this article's larger point is.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,711
It would be insane if the casting decisions were, like, "let's kill & stalk a bunch of black womens!" - that obviously didn't happen. But it's possible they produced a movie where the victims of gross actions are disproportionately brown women, and nobody in the editing room (or at the time of casting) took note and said, "actually this is kinda fucked up, we should change/reshoot one or two of these scenes!" And then the movie is contributing to a long history of unintentionally discriminating against (or punishing) brown women - of which there is a long history in American cinema.

I have no judgements on the film, I haven't seen it. But it's entirely possible for the production crew to make a film which punishes PoC without intentionally trying to, simply out of ignorance of race issues, which is what this article's larger point is.
You should probably refrain from having this conversation since you haven't actually seen the film. The majority of the violence does not involve PoC.
 

JaggedSac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,988
Burbs of Atlanta
And yours isn't?

I mean look, Richard Brody is a foppish oaf who spits out overdetermined bad takes for a living, and everyone in this thread is right to point out what a stretch he's making in places in this article, but I think we're kidding ourselves here if we think that this film's racial and sexual politics are well-thought-through.

You would have to see the script to see if the character was determined to be African American before casting took place
 

Bor Gullet

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,399
Troll how ?

I think that word is used for too much, it's used to describe everything.

I should correct myself, he's a well known contrarian.

I used to follow him on twitter, and he always bashed hollywood blockbusters before they even came out. He doesn't even give those types of film a chance.
 

Loxley

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,618
This movie has just fundamentally broken some people, hasn't it?
 

Froyo Love

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,503
Real life: people buy guns after incidents in where their safety was compromised. Some of those gun owners actually shoot people with said guns.
This is so reductive of the similarities that by the same standard, the Joker has no homages or connection to The King of Comedy.

You should probably watch the movie before you start defending an article people who've seen the movie are laughing at.
I'd wager it's because those of us who have seen it can ascertain the amount navel gazing going on in this article.
Yo, since you've seen the film, and Brody's thesis is apparently so absurd, it should be pretty easy to disprove it by talking about the text! I wasn't even inclined to defend the article after I read it; the word "parody" seems misused and invoking the Central Park Five seems too specific for what seems to be a more general scene of white dude being victimized. But after reading a flood of posts disagreeing with Brody for no articulated reason beyond "lol no" and "movie broke people's brains", it's hard not to think Brody has the movie pegged better than y'all.

You should probably refrain from having this conversation since you haven't actually seen the film. The majority of the violence does not involve PoC.
This is an actual argument that makes sense to me. Does Fleck even attack any PoC in the film? Or is Brody just assigning racial violence to everything based on his interpretation of the opening scene?
 

bohex1984

Member
Oct 27, 2017
521
I'm actually loving the senseless hate the movie gets while being such a success...

Puts a smile on my face
 

ShutterMunster

Art Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,459
Comments in this thread are predictably nuts. Read this earlier and I'm not sure if I'm with Brody on some of the specifics, but his overarching assessment rings true to me.
 
Dec 22, 2017
7,099
FYI, this article you're apparently co-signing begins by comparing the Joker getting hit with a sign to the real life rape of a woman.

How badly did this film hurt you?

To be fair the Central Park Five didn't rape that woman, so there is no comparison to be made. I think the reviewer was attempting to say the movie was reinforcing the racially fueled fear of "roaming gangs" of black teens, which is what led to the arrest of those kids in real life. At least I think, some of the other shit like comparing it to Black Panther made no sense so maybe I am wrong.

Honestly I bet they wrote the Greenbook line and knew that was enough to get clicks.
 

sapien85

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
5,427
This is so reductive of the similarities that by the same standard, the Joker has no homages or connection to The King of Comedy.





Yo, since you've seen the film, and Brody's thesis is apparently so absurd, it should be pretty easy to disprove it by talking about the text! I wasn't even inclined to defend the article after I read it; the word "parody" seems misused and invoking the Central Park Five seems too specific for what seems to be a more general scene of white dude being victimized. But after reading a flood of posts disagreeing with Brody for no articulated reason beyond "lol no" and "movie broke people's brains", it's hard not to think Brody has the movie pegged better than y'all.


This is an actual argument that makes sense to me. Does Fleck even attack any PoC in the film? Or is Brody just assigning racial violence to everything based on his interpretation of the opening scene?

Defenders of this movie accuse critics of it of being broken yet a lot of the posts defending it are the same thing over and over again and schadenfreude basically. Kind of like the group think accusation that is being thrown at the critics.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
I'm really starting to get bored of the modern review and think piece trend of taking the most loose and dubious possible associations and then treating them as the most damning indictment of the source material.

It's really a cringeworthy frame and tactic of art criticism.

A lot of times it feels as though the author knew what they wanted to posit before familiarizing themselves with the source material and then worked backwards from there.
 
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