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EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
White House is insanely leaky. If Trump has it we'll find out.
Only if he gets tested which it seems he's resisting as though he's treating it as Schrodinger's disease; it won't be real if he doesn't check. You'd think the people surrounding him like Pence and Miller would want to know if he's contagious but I guess they're willing to risk being infected if it means continuing to pamper Trump's ego and image as an infallible strongman. I can see them all coughing and wheezing on live TV while still claiming they're on top of everything and don't need to get tested.
 

ZackieChan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,056
I remember one time, after some Economics class finished, I've asked the teacher: "So, the current economic system all over the planet is really a huge house of cards that only works because we pretend it works and somethings (in the economic market) have value without nothing real to support/back (this value) just because someone said so?" and she replied "Yes, it is." in a completely nonchalant tone.
It's a social contract like pretty much anything else in society. Currency exists so there is a singular way to trade, rather than having to barter, etc. It's not as crazy as you think. Without any of the various "houses of cards" that prop up society we have anarchy.
 

Jerm

The Fallen
Oct 31, 2017
5,771
White House is insanely leaky. If Trump has it we'll find out.

Fair enough, but I also think he's spent the last four years insulating himself from that. I think if he did have it, an extremely limited amount of people would know it in any official capacity regardless. I honestly don't know what's the greater good in this situation. I think the chance that he's been tested is extremely high and regardless of the results, they would put on the same face for the public because I genuinely think people would freak the fuck out and that's what they're currently trying to prevent. How well that's working is up for debate. His base seems to take him at his word and never fact check anything while most everyone else is scared as shit because of how it's being handled.
 
Oct 26, 2017
516
It's a social contract like pretty much anything else in society. Currency exists so there is a singular way to trade, rather than having to barter, etc. It's not as crazy as you think. Without any of the various "houses of cards" that prop up society we have anarchy.
Oh, yes I agree that some parts of our current economic system, like currencies, are necessary and fall under the "everyone agree with it" social contract. My question to the teacher and her response were more related to what Jiminy said and that it is not really a social contract when society at large has no saying about it.
 

Deleted member 14459

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,874
I have two friends who work in high-ish up in the finance sector, and when they begin describing in detail how their job works, you see why nobody questions it. It's an incredibly intricate web of cause and effect which depicts how so much money moves around and functions. Long term deals, the robust logic of money being passed around to control large pools of the stuff, which affects governments and countless services, pensions, etc...

They clearly see the absolute necessity of all of it and how without this system nothing would move forward, day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute.

But when you begin pressing them on the core meaning, the core purpose of all of it... everything they think falls apart. They admit that yeah, it's basically arbitrary. There has to be some kind of system. The system has to keep working, no matter how arbitrary. Otherwise we have chaos. They have to submit fully to it, like a cult, otherwise it's... existential abyss. I guess.

The place where there's hope is in academic economics where a lot of front-thinkers are really trying to challenge core beliefs. Does an economy need growth to be successful? Is basing growth or collapse on individual ownership and behaviour wise? Etc. Etc.

In terms of understanding the economy, it's basically this: it's all about prediction. Almost nothing is based on actual facts. It's all how stakeholders predict their money should and will be shuffled around. The only reason markets collapsed this week was that lots of people were WORRIED various stocks would collapse, so they sold... which made everyone else WORRY, so they also sold... so the stocks DID collapse! The cause and effect has been connected directly to flawed, human whim.

It's madness. The professionals I know in the industry have nothing to say in defence of this.

Yes, economic theory says that finance does not produce any value, only profit.
 

ZackieChan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,056
Oh, yes I agree that some parts of our current economic system, like currencies, are necessary and fall under the "everyone agree with it" social contract. My question to the teacher and her response were more related to what Jiminy said and that it is not really a social contract when society at large has no saying about it.
Probably because most people don't really care. Just like I don't care how the trash gets picked up, just that it does.
 

Malleymal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,280
Love the way the cut the mics of whenever there were questions asked that he didn't like... no follow up or clarification fake news!!! This why he won't debate. No way will he allow himself to be pressed.
 
Mar 29, 2018
7,078
It's a social contract like pretty much anything else in society. Currency exists so there is a singular way to trade, rather than having to barter, etc. It's not as crazy as you think. Without any of the various "houses of cards" that prop up society we have anarchy.
Currency is a social contract, but the way the overall economy functions isn't, really. It's an abstracted system where real actual resources, services and ownership are totally detached from arbitrary, floating "values" which are often determined by totally arbitrary behaviour and decision-making. It's a contract in the same way playing blackjack with 4 other players is a contract with those other players.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
516
Currency is a social contract, but the way the overall economy functions isn't, really. It's an abstracted system where real actual resources, services and ownership are totally detached from arbitrary, floating "values" which are often determined by totally arbitrary behaviour and decision-making. It's a contract in the same way playing blackjack with 4 other players is a contract with those other players.
Thank you for explaining my thoughts more clearly.

And the orange shit stain couldn't stop lying even if his life depended on it.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,975
I wonder whether Trump is already planning to crucify Pence for all this as the scapegoat, or whether he genuinely doesn't realize at this point, he'll have to fire Pence, or at least make an example of him, when this blows up if he doesn't want to take responsibility for it.

On that note, I wonder if Pence is already packing his golden parachute.
 

Deleted member 1476

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,449
I really don't think that is necessarily the case. Not to be crass, but think about how many Google projects launch in wonky condition and then are abandoned after a few years. That's a perfectly acceptable way to develop products when you are a tech company, but it's not what we need here. The way the private sector is wired to approach problems is not really compatible with a health crisis. A bunch of Silicon Valley engineers with a "move fast and break things" philosophy doesn't seem like the tool for the job.

To anchor it in gaming and recent terms, imagine if Google launches this health thing with the same number of issues Stadia had.

It would be a disaster.
 

AndreGX

GameXplain
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
1,815
San Francisco
I wonder whether Trump is already planning to crucify Pence for all this as the scapegoat, or whether he genuinely doesn't realize at this point, he'll have to fire Pence, or at least make an example of him, when this blows up if he doesn't want to take responsibility for it.

The Vice President can't actually be fired. Trump can still throw him under the bus though, of course
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,975
The Vice President can't actually be fired. Trump can still throw him under the bus though, of course

I wonder how that would play out then? If you can't get rid of him, but he's "The man that messed up coronavirus in America," how does Trump handle everyone saying, "You said it's his fault, but you're keeping him around"?

Just banish him to a desk and never let him go out in public again?
 

CrumbSnatcher

Member
Jan 12, 2018
436
National Embarrassment and Chief has left the building. Pence will take the helm, while the embarrassment try to survive his fuck up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,572
Racoon City
I wonder whether Trump is already planning to crucify Pence for all this as the scapegoat, or whether he genuinely doesn't realize at this point, he'll have to fire Pence, or at least make an example of him, when this blows up if he doesn't want to take responsibility for it.

On that note, I wonder if Pence is already packing his golden parachute.

no need to bc sadly American media at large won't ever hold fire to his feet on how he's handling everything.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,975
no need to bc sadly American media at large won't ever hold fire to his feet on how he's handling everything.

Definitely one of those "We'll see" conditions for now. The facilities in the US aren't yet overburdened, and hospitals aren't turning the elderly away, telling the family that brought them in, "We don't have beds, we have to prioritize younger adults that can still make a contribution to society, just be there for them at the end."

Once that starts playing out in all major cities, I doubt the media is going to be "Y'know what... no big deal. It's fine." Some of those media people are likely to be affected by it. As the death toll mounts the whole, "He stalled testing to keep his numbers low for the stock market" is going to get more and more air play in both the media and attack ads in the run-up to November.

I know 30% of America will STILL somehow blame Obama for this in a feat of mental gymnastics that will be Olympic-worthy, but for reasonable people that lose a loved one, they'll want to know who let this happen, and the media will have to oblige.

That "I don't take responsibility at all" paired with his 2013 Tweet of "Leader is always responsible" is going to be the epitaph of his political career.
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
Not in our case. :P

Private sector started taking this pandemic seriously at a time when Trump was still boasting about numbers and flu.

Most of the companies in the US has better leadership than the country.

Yeah we should definitely trust the private sector who are gearing to make gigantic swaths of profit as people die and suffer. Better leadership when it comes to companies means higher rates of growth and profit, comparing that to government service is silly. It's one of the reasons we're in this mess with Trump in the first place, because people think the government can run like a business and that he's in any way competent.

The Vice President can't actually be fired. Trump can still throw him under the bus though, of course

They can force him to resign.
 

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
Yeah we should definitely trust the private sector who are gearing to make gigantic swaths of profit as people die and suffer. Better leadership when it comes to companies means higher rates of growth and profit, comparing that to government service is silly. It's one of the reasons we're in this mess with Trump in the first place, because people think the government can run like a business and that he's in any way competent.

I don't think the private sector in the US is going to make giant swaths of profit in our current situation bro.
 

SpottieO

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,600
If Ronna McDaniel tests positive I really don't see how Trump doesn't. Especially because they were together at Mar a Lago on Monday.
 

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
Definitely one of those "We'll see" conditions for now. The facilities in the US aren't yet overburdened, and hospitals aren't turning the elderly away, telling the family that brought them in, "We don't have beds, we have to prioritize younger adults that can still make a contribution to society, just be there for them at the end."

Once that starts playing out in all major cities, I doubt the media is going to be "Y'know what... no big deal. It's fine." Some of those media people are likely to be affected by it. As the death toll mounts the whole, "He stalled testing to keep his numbers low for the stock market" is going to get more and more air play in both the media and attack ads in the run-up to November.

I know 30% of America will STILL somehow blame Obama for this in a feat of mental gymnastics that will be Olympic-worthy, but for reasonable people that lose a loved one, they'll want to know who let this happen, and the media will have to oblige.

That "I don't take responsibility at all" paired with his 2013 Tweet of "Leader is always responsible" is going to be the epitaph of his political career.

This. Trump will have a very hard time spinning or distracting with this one, especially when someone like Mike Bloomberg can spend more millions running ads about it.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,888
This. Trump will have a very hard time spinning or distracting with this one, especially when someone like Mike Bloomberg can spend more millions running ads about it.
Its not just the death.

The inconvenience is going to really cost him. People are going to be pissed if they lose money, have to cancel trips/sporting events, etc. People can't ignore it when it starts to fuck up their own lives.

I can't wait for the ads that show that stupid fuck downplaying this when we could have done more and then scrambling way too late. We have an incompetent government and I don't think the media is much better but even as dumb as they are most people are going to pick up on it. Enough that Trump is going to be very unpopular unless something drastic happens (like a miracle that makes this go away).
 

Wag

Member
Nov 3, 2017
11,638
I don't understand how more Americans aren't outraged at the current administration handling of this whole debacle? People are dying.
 

DinosaurusRex

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,953
Trump has the immune system of a golden cow God toilet. How could he possibly get sick?
Yep
3WPL.gif
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
8,026
I don't understand how more Americans aren't outraged at the current administration handling of this whole debacle? People are dying.

Because right now it isn't impacting most people. If it reaches a situation similar to what Europe is seeing now then you'll see outrage. People are good at not caring until they're directly impacted.
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
I don't think the private sector in the US is going to make giant swaths of profit in our current situation bro.

Never underestimate the immorality of capitalism. But I do appreciate the condescension as you stan for corporations over our own government. Libertarians are weird, imagine pulling for CEOs that make 40000% more than their employees.



Stop it.

I'm going to sound like a conspiracy theorist here, but I just don't buy that. Not completely.

Well until there's more evidence, you certainly do.
 
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Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
This is the same man who lied about his weight talking about he weighed 239 lbs. & "is very healthy".

Yes he's a liar, but in this case there's no way they're gonna be able to hide this. Just wait for more evidence, if people around him like Fauci start getting affected it certainly adds more credence. Right now the entire basis of evidence is "he's a liar". That's just trying to prove something with a negative.
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
I'll stan for anything over the Trump admin.

It's really frustrating for you to selectively quote me and not respond to my whole post. But the fact you think the government = Trump shows me you have no sophistication nor understanding of things. There are plenty of people at the CDC and HHS and other departments that are fucking working their asses off to figure this shit out. As I proved with that tweet that you curiously ignored, corporations are not acting in our best interest, but theirs. Not to mention, how you have the cognitive dissonance to support the corporations that are supporting Trump!
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
Its not just the death.

The inconvenience is going to really cost him. People are going to be pissed if they lose money, have to cancel trips/sporting events, etc. People can't ignore it when it starts to fuck up their own lives.

I can't wait for the ads that show that stupid fuck downplaying this when we could have done more and then scrambling way too late. We have an incompetent government and I don't think the media is much better but even as dumb as they are most people are going to pick up on it. Enough that Trump is going to be very unpopular unless something drastic happens (like a miracle that makes this go away).
Every time I think "this is the end of Trump" I'm proven wrong. But I really do think this will sink him. The stock market has crashed, we are entering a recession, and the American way of life as we know it is not functioning anywhere.

Sports are not being played. People cannot congregate. Schools are suspended. Business are going to close en masse. And yes, a significant amount people will die, overwhelmingly from his own voting demographic of elderly individuals. It's over for him.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,888
Every time I think "this is the end of Trump" I'm proven wrong. But I really do think this will sink him. The stock market has crashed, we are entering a recession, and the American way of life as we know it is not functioning anywhere.

Sports are not being played. People cannot congregate. Schools are suspended. Business are going to close en masse. And yes, a significant amount people will die, overwhelmingly from his own voting demographic of elderly individuals. It's over for him.
Assuming it plays out that way and it being an election year I have to agree it would be lights out for him.

And if he loses his base the rest of the Republicans will eat him alive to try and save themselves.

Which is actually really sad. Reason and compassion don't get people to vote. He won on hatred and ignorance and the only thing that could stop him was him fucking up enough to actually kill people
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
Assuming it plays out that way and it being an election year I have to agree it would be lights out for him.

And if he loses his base the rest of the Republicans will eat him alive to try and save themselves
If he survives this and happens to win again this November, then it will be the first time I actually lose hope in our system of government and way of life.

Bad results happen all of the time. Mistakes are made, but eventually the voting public has to do its job, read the press, and act accordingly. Electing someone unfit is one thing, but re-electing a man who could not prevent or even mitigate the collapse of the country is another.