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weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,213
OP is off to play Mario U with an extremely closed mindset. I give it about 2 hours before they come back in and say they still hate and and everyone else is wrong.

FWIW I really enjoyed both Mario U and Luigi U and I didn't have to turn off any random mid air spins. No idea what any of the complaints in the OP are and I feel like we are all being trolled.
 
OP
OP
Space Lion

Space Lion

Banned
May 24, 2019
1,015
OP is off to play Mario U with an extremely closed mindset. I give it about 2 hours before they come back in and say they still hate and and everyone else is wrong.

FWIW I really enjoyed both Mario U and Luigi U and I didn't have to turn off any random mid air spins. No idea what any of the complaints in the OP are and I feel like we are all being trolled.

Nope, I'm loving it.
 

Guaraná

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
brazil, unfortunately
Now this is an interesting discussion to have! Note I have no intention of turning this into a list war or anything, but just to show where I stand on Mario level design, my ranking of the top 10 Mario games is: Super Mario Galaxy 2 > Super Mario 3D World > New Super Mario Bros U > New Super Mario Bros Wii > Super Mario Bros 3 > Super Mario Galaxy > Super Mario World > Super Mario Odyssey > Super Mario 64 > Super Mario Bros Lost Levels. As you can probably guess, I tend to prefer more linear, course based Mario games!

Also, apologies for the long post and rambling, I'm very passionate about Mario platformers and their level design!

Yeah, I can see how someone can get that feeling. Much as I adore NSMBU (and to a slightly lesser extent, New Super Mario Bros Wii), they are fairly ridgid in their level design philosophy, though I feel like this also give them the pro of having rather consistent level design compared to other 2D Marios.

For example, for Super Mario Bros 3 (which is incidently my 3rd favorite 2D Mario and my 5th favorite game of all time, so I still love it!), I do agree that this game shows that you don't ACTUALLY need that level design formula to succeed with Mario level design, as Super Mario Bros 3 stages tend to be very short and focus on only a few concepts without expanding on them all to much. However, this does come at the cost of some consistency in my opinion, as there are levels like the 3-fortress maze and the World 6 "fly with the koopa shell to win" level that don't really hold up that well on repeated plays.

While I agree that Super Mario World's map design and gameplay quirks are really cool, I tend to rate Mario games on more of a level design level than anything else, so I find Super Mario World to be in a somewhat odd position. While Super Mario World certainly doesn't have BAD level design by any stretch of the imagination (in fact, it's great imo!), it does have one very odd quirk: most levels have a drastic shift in design the moment you change rooms. This is especially prevelant in castles. For example, take Ludwig's castle: the level starts in a narrow path, next room is about outspeeding a falling ceiling to reach a ! block to give yourself more time, and the last room is a fence climb to the boss room. All of these could have been expanded into full levels in their own right, but instead they're sorta glued together. Some players I've talked to find this to be a strength, because SMW can pack quite a bit of variety into one level. However, I feel like because of the shifting level designs, a lot of the level design concepts aren't given much room to grow compared to other Mario games, which is why I rate it a bit lower (granted, like I said earlier, I still think SMW is an incredible game!)

Super Mario Bros and Lost Levels have their own very distinct level design philosophies too! Super Mario Bros is something I have a bit of a hard time explaining in words, but it feels like a lot of the game is built around the momentum in your jumps compared to most Mario games, and introducing new hazards so the game can then remix them in more challenging forms later. There's been dozens of great analyses of say, 1-1 in particular, but now that I think about it, an interesting thing about Super Mario Bros is that it almost takes the modern Mario level design philosphy, and applies them to the entire game as if it was one giant level! Considering SMB's crazy limitations due to not having a mapper chip, I think it makes sense to design the game that way imo, its hard to have a ton of variety with stock NES hardware, so its amazing how well the game holds up today imo!

Lost Levels, as difficult as it is, is sorta similar in that regards, except I love that it expands upon the late game design element of Super Mario Bros where it rewards you for taking risks with a power up, aka a chance to make anotehr mistake. 5-4 in Lost Levels in particular has a really nice, challening mushroom to get that feels rewarding to nail!

Finally, 3D Land and 3D World are interesting points to bring up in my mind. I actually agree with the 3D World take a bit: Super Mario 3D World I feel, does actually nail that level design formula better than New Super Mario Bros U, mostly because Super Mario 3D World tends to have a lot more variety in its overall level design. So for example, take one of my favorite midgame worlds in New Super Mario Bros U: Soda Jungle. I love a lot of Soda Jungle's concepts, it does a LOT with poison water, such as the snake block fortress, or the see-saw level with the great rotating see-saw twist.

3D World goes even further than this level design wise, being chock FULL of well explored one-off concepts like the Mario Kart level, or having dramatically different takes on a specfic concept like say, how World 2 and World 9 approach the Double Cherry. I also have to give hats off to 3D World's final level, which takes a Super Mario Bros 1 like twist of reintroudicng various hazards you've already seen in a brand new context! Much as I adore New Super Mario Bros U's level design, Super Mario 3D World tends to focus on less iteration in its level design. NSMBU for example, feels the need to have say, several levels that take advantage of water, or vines, or lava, etc, with a few times such as the bone coaster (which was in NSMBW) or the P-Switch level being afraid to get out of the norm. Super Mario 3D World basically aproaches most of its level design like the bone coaster or world 9 P-Switch level in NSMBU: Most of its levels are some sort of wild idea that don't come back often!

Super Mario 3D Land is sorta similar in that respects, but my huge issue with it is that a large portion of that game is actually remixed content from earlier in the game, which is unforunate, though what's there is pretty damn good imo, even if the difficulty curve is a bit too gentle for my liking. Also, to finish this post off: I actually like Super Mario Galaxy 2 for similar reasons to 3D World, except that game is even more unrestrainted with how it explores new concepts!
Jesus
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,351
I've been told to and have read from multiple people to just skip to Luigi U. It's a commonly expressed opinion that it's basically the same game but better.

It's real hard to take someone who is simultaneously so elitest and so wrong with any degree of seriousness.

I have no idea where you developed this opinion, because it's not one I've ever seen anywhere. And everything you say about the physics in the OP is wrong too.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,213
Luigi U is balls fan game kusoge. Sorry.
Nah it's designed to be played after Mario U. Remember it's actually just DLC for Mario U that was so well received it received a standalone release.

Slightly off topic but I think Starry Night from Mario U is in the top 5 Mario levels ever.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,047
I mean the game is generally considered extremely lazy, as is the whole New label. And there are issues with the spin jump, but I've never hear anyone complain about the physics other than that tbh.

No it's not? It's well reviewed, and a lot of people hold it very high when comparing games in the series. Any complaints are usually about the graphical style, and not the actual game itself. And I personally don't mind the style in the first place.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,874
If you can get past the mediocre presentation, NSMB U had really great level design just like the Wii one (in fact the Wii game is probably underrated by now, I rarely see people talk about it. It was a massive improvement over the DS game at the time).

And as others have said, Luigi U is like the hard mode version of the game designed with the assumption that you've played the base game already and has its own levels, and NSMB U is already harder than the DS game.
 
OP
OP
Space Lion

Space Lion

Banned
May 24, 2019
1,015
Yeah, it doesn't control that bad

It controls worse than in NSMBU

People really need to learn that perception is not objective, jeez

Nah.


Within the confines of Mario 1, Luigi's work. They are slippery but I still feel more in control than in Luigi U. I've not once denied Luigi doesn't have a slippery edge in previous games. But for whatever reason I can't stand it in Luigi U.
 

Listai

50¢
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,660
It's a competent game.

I only got half way through it before getting bored - but the art and music are insipid like all of the NSMB games which is a huge turn off for me.
 

doemaaan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,693
All I know is I once played a NSM game and nearly threw the controller across the room. Controls felt atrocious. Never picked that series up again.
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,845
Yes, this is exactly what I first thought when I tried playing those new SMB long ago. I was shocked how bad they played, bad controls, no fun and no exploration. This is why SMB3 and SMW are still the best 2D Marios.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,213
It's a competent game.

I only got half way through it before getting bored - but the art and music are insipid like all of the NSMB games which is a huge turn off for me.
Insipid?
nsmbu3.jpg

new-super-bario-bros-u-deluxe-11-500x500.jpg

NewSuperMarioBros7.jpg
 

JayCeeJim

Member
Jan 3, 2019
466
I 100% Mario U main mode (not the challenges) and really liked it. Then I tried Luigi U and didn't click at all with it like the OP. I didn't pass the second world and abandoned it.

I understand the different philosophy, but it's not for me.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,213
I knew someone would quote me and show the one level inspired by a Van Gogh painting.

Other than that level - absolutely. The lighting, the tile choices, the backgrounds to the models themselves. They're dull and uninteresting.
There's 2 other levels there that I would not call insipid. It wasn't hard to find amazing looking levels from the game. I agree the first world is boring. But all 2d Mario first levels are boring.
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,845
This thread is not at all about the artstyle of the New Super Mario games. It's about everything else.
 

joffocakes

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,377
Glad OP is now playing the correct game and enjoying it; I adore NSMBU and absolutely consider it to be up there with my favourite Mario games.

The Challenge Mode is especially excellent; I wish Nintendo would revisit it for all their Mario titles. Short, inventive tasks with medal grades awarded for faster or higher scoring completion and there's around eighty of them. Well worth jumping into.
 

Selphie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,713
The Netherlands
I tried the base game on the WiiU but something about the controls felt so off, I think this game has a flying squirrel suit or something right? The controls for that just put me off so much.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,902
Well that's just silly and kind of needlessly elitist.

Honestly I can't take this thread seriously.
You can't take it seriously because the OP's opinion doesn't mesh with your own?

The OP is correct incidentally. NSMBU is complete dog vomit. It was shit on the Wii U, and the fact Nintendo ported this to Switch and sold it for 60 FUCKING DOLLARS is absolute daylight robbery.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,047
You can't take it seriously because the OP's opinion doesn't mesh with your own?

The OP is correct incidentally. NSMBU is complete dog vomit. It was shit on the Wii U, and the fact Nintendo ported this to Switch and sold it for 60 FUCKING DOLLARS is absolute daylight robbery.

Talking about opinions, then sporting absolute truths. I'm going to get whiplash.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,013
I'm so disappointed by this game that I almost don't want to take anyone who praised it seriously regarding platformers ever again.
Don't take me serious then, because it is the best 2D Mario. The spin jump thing did not exist on Wii U and I agree that it is a strange decision to put spin jump on repeat B presses (then again, why would you not keep B pressed during the jump anyway), but that only affects the Switch version. The level design is brilliant and yeah, Luigi is more challenge based, but that was a deliberate spin off to give more bite sized, more challenging levels with a stricter time limit. That's sort of the point of New Super Luigi U. If you want more traditional Mario level design, play NSMBU instead...
 

EggmaniMN

Banned
May 17, 2020
3,465
You can't take it seriously because the OP's opinion doesn't mesh with your own?

The OP is correct incidentally. NSMBU is complete dog vomit. It was shit on the Wii U, and the fact Nintendo ported this to Switch and sold it for 60 FUCKING DOLLARS is absolute daylight robbery.

did you like, read the rest of their replies or is this a troll or what because they don't agree with you at all now and this post is needlessly combative and hypocritical
 

Rubblatus

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,125
(then again, why would you not keep B pressed during the jump anyway)
Are you serious? The game has a triple jump which rewards chaining multiple jumps together. You also often want to do short hops to aim jumps onto an enemy, and then hold down the jump button when you make contact so you can spring higher off them. These create issues. Especially in stages that have a lot of vertically moving platforms.
 
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awake4ages

Neo•Geo Saver
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,050
Why the hell would anyone tell OP to play New Super Luigi U before NSMBU

Whoever told you to do that is an asshole lmfao
 

giapel

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,593
YOU don't like the game. That doesn't make it a terrible game.
I think this is basically what triggers the aggressive replies. Had the title been: "I've played NSMBU and hated it" then you would have more mild responses. But calling it straight up terrible is just begging for confrontation.
 

Jakenbakin

Member
Jun 17, 2018
11,801
It's like this thread is written in reverse, with the OP finding out they love NSMBU (incidentally the best 2D Mario) then going onto NSMLU and not looking it (which is fine by me, I didn't either).
 

Clive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,089
I'm convinced that most people who prefer SMB3 and SMW do so because they played them years before NSMBU. They were arguably better for their respective era and big evolutions in game design for the time but I think practically everything in U is better today: graphics, level design, variety, bosses, power ups and controls.
 

Mark1

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,006
Not touched Luigi U yet, but from what I recall it was deliberately made the way it was to give players a proper platforming challenge akin to Super Mario Bros. Lost Levels.

Mario Bros. U is a phenomenal game hampered by an artstyle/soundtrack that people were getting tired of. Especially with a 3DS version released just a few months prior.