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Oct 29, 2017
698
This.



It's their first AAA game, why were you expecting 30-50$?
Speaking for myself, giving Housemarque historical price points I assumed since this is a higher budget game, yet still sort of similar to their past work. That this would for sure be a tad more costly than their previously works, hence the assumption that the price increase would be $20-30.

I'm not saying that Sony&Housemarque shouldn't command the $70 price point, they just need to convince me that at this price point it is worth it.
 

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,811
Cologne, Germany
What the hell...

I thought it was a $30 title at most.

This looks like $30 title at most, $70 is waaay too high.

Why should it be 30 bucks lol...this is madness. let me guess, you were fine with paying 60 bucks for Miles Morales or would be fine with paying 70 bucks for Horizon 2?

iNTO MY veINS!

Nex Machina was one of the best games I played last gen and easily the best twin stick shooter.

giphy.gif
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,124
Not sure why people think this should be a budget title (although I agree that £70 is too expensive for any game). Production values look high, graphics looks great...it looks like a pretty big budget title.
 

ianpm31

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,529
This IP is very refreshing coming from Sony. The last great bullet hell 3rd person shooter I've played was Vanquish. Sign me up
 

jwk94

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,418
Gonna have to wait on reviews for this one. I like Housemarque, but $70 is too high depending on what the roguelike elements are. I usually hate roguelike games. If there's a good, meaty story, I might take the jump.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,471
I'm not quite sure how so many of you experts have convinced yourselves already that this is going to flop.

I also don't get how we always clamor for more new IPs (that aren't just cookie cutter white male protags) and then poo-poo exactly that.
 

Volkama

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,037
I'm really thinking that that price might just be a placeholder, but hey, we'll see.
You can already pre-order from the PlayStation Store for the same price.
As I said, the ideal solution for me would be if all these new games with a price of 80 euros had a 10% discount for pre-order for PS Plus subscribers.
 

Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,132
Deathloop is also a rogue-like and it's priced at $60

They will both have a rough launch is people are refusing to buy rogue-like games at full price :/
 

OSHAN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,931
If the price is too high, wait until the summer. Problem solved. I rarely, if ever, buy games at launch. Always have a backlog, and unless it is a Switch game, it is virtually guaranteed to drop in price after a few months.
 

Dr. Doom

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,509
Why should it be 30 bucks lol...this is madness. let me guess, you were fine with paying 60 bucks for Miles Morales or would be fine with paying 70 bucks for Horizon 2?



giphy.gif
I'm not fine with paying 70 quid for any game.

Why?

________________

That $70 price tag though... I fear publishers are just going to make people buy games less at launch and wait for the used market or pricedrops.
This is the approach I am taking.

If consoles went digital only, I would straight up quit console gaming.
 

Aki

Member
Mar 20, 2020
774
Deathloop is also a rogue-like and it's priced at $60

They will both have a rough launch is people are refusing to buy rogue-like games at full price :/

its a cycle isn't it?

Unique AAA game comes out -> people don't buy it or wait for sale -> Game doesn't sell well -> less unique games come out -> People complain about the industry being too safe -> rinse and repeat.
 

Kensuke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,394
Netherlands
I'm the perfect target audience for this game. I love Housemarque (played all their games) and I dig Returnal so far a lot. Big fan of third-person shooters (Vanquish is a god tier game) and I even like rogelites. Even with all that, I would be very hard pressed to spend €80 on this. It's not that Returnal is low budget or something, but that price point is just too damn high and makes one very selective.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,435
I'm not quite sure how so many of you experts have convinced yourselves already that this is going to flop.

I also don't get how we always clamor for more new IPs (that aren't just cookie cutter white male protags) and then poo-poo exactly that.

its a cycle isn't it?

Unique AAA game comes out -> people don't buy it or wait for sale -> Game doesn't sell well -> less unique games come out -> People complain about the industry being too safe -> rinse and repeat.

Yeah. AAA is too similar is thrown around a lot on here, but when there is a new IP with an interesting concept and awesome looking gameplay people say it should be cheap and they buy the new God of War instead.

I mean, I'd love for Sony to have more flexible pricing, but if it's a good game I'll pay for it. Housemarque is a developer that has earned my support and I'd hate to see them go down as there is no studio quite like it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,755
Why?

________________

That $70 price tag though... I fear publishers are just going to make people buy games less at launch and wait for the used market or pricedrops.
Because they have awful business practices treating their workers very poorly even before COVID but especially bad during a pandemic? And there's the whole taxes thing too.

but I agree with $70 games I think more and more ppl will want to wait for sales or buy used. I really want Returnal but you just know Sony will have an E3 season sale on first party games in June.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
I'm not fine with paying 70 quid for any game.


This is the approach I am taking.

If consoles went digital only, I would straight up quit console gaming.
I am all digital. Have been since 2013.

The last time bought a game at full price was GOW. And I simply will never pay anything more than $50 for any game. Which kinda means I would never buy a game on launch day. Most likely not within the first 3- 6 months. Games that launch at or under $50 that I want though, well they have got my money.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,089
Los Angeles, CA
The wonderful thing about game prices is that they go down.

Are people upset by the $70USD price tag because they want the game day one, but $70USD is too much for them? That's understandable, but it's going to drop in price fairly quickly (which isn't a statement on the quality of the game, just that games go on discount waaaaay faster than they did when I was growing up, that's for sure, where a game would be $50-$60 for a year or more; excluding holiday sales).

Or are people upset because they don't think the game "looks like a $70USD game)? In that case, I think it's incredibly disrespectful to the team at Housemarque and the game to put a price on their hard work because of a 1.5 minute trailer and minimal knowledge of what the complete package of the game entails.

Personally, I don't put a price tag on features/game length/graphics/etc. I care about how much fun I have with the game. Housemarque, in particular, has consistently delivered fun games. Fun games that, sadly, the gaming community tended to ignore, to the point that the studio was in real danger of not being able to create games anymore. That would be a heartbreaking loss for this industry. Returnal is their attempt to marry their game design expertise to a production that is more appealing to gamers.

And now gamers are preparing to pass on the title because of the price, which will inevitably go down, and because of this idea that if a game "doesn't look like it's worth full price" it's a no go. I get people not being interested in the genre (there are ton of genres that aren't my thing), but for me, price just isn't a factor. Not because I can afford it, but because I know, in time, it will come down if I decide it's "too rich for my blood."

In this case, I'm here day one. The game looks awesome, is in a genre I'm actually becoming more of a fan of (I'm generally not into roguelikes/lites, but I've played some really fun ones that have turned me around on the genre), and by a studio I am a fan of, that has a really strong track record for delivering really fun games.

With Returnal being a PS5 exclusive, and releasing when the exclusive library of the console is so low, I think some folks are going to be surprised at how well it does on launch. PS5 gamers are hungry for more games to show off their system, but also games that utilize the system's features (in particular the Dual Sense controller, as now that we've had our hands on it, and have experience how fantastic of a controller it is, it's feature set has been a surprise dark horse in terms of excitement over games that utilize it, and utilize it well - Thanks, Astro's Playroom!).

Also keep in mind that Housemarque isn't a gigantic studio (80 staff isn't really that big). It doesn't need to sell 6 million units to be a success, and I doubt it had a $100 million budget. I imagine it will sell well among the hardcore Housemarque fans, and will have longer legs as the price comes down over the weeks/months after release.

It having a March release date says, to me, that Sony is aware of its market potential, and is maximizing early sales by releasing it early in the PS5's life cycle, when exclusive titles are lacking, and the install base is more likely to buy any exclusive that looks even remotely impressive, and, well, Returnal looks really, really impressive.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
You can already pre-order from the PlayStation Store for the same price.
As I said, the ideal solution for me would be if all these new games with a price of 80 euros had a 10% discount for pre-order for PS Plus subscribers.

Well, I guess that confirms it then. I'd have to see how much content is there, compared to $25 game like Hades or Risk of Rain 2. That is a certainly seems a bit steep at first glance.
 

ThisOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,938
It's run-based, it has procedurely generated levels and has permadeath.

That last trailer really had a Risk of Rain 2 vibe to it, in a good way.
Isn't some sort of permanent progression also a key element in a roguelite? Spelunky 2 let's you unlock shortcuts and characters, Isaac lets you unlock new items, floors, bosses, and characters. Gungeon lets you collect money that you keep on death to buy new weapon unlocks. We don't really know what sort of "permanent progression" there is here between runs.
 

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,811
Cologne, Germany
Thanks for reminding me of Nex Machina, been meaning to buy that for a while now!

It is true, its the best twin stick shooter and Housemarques magnum opus. the scoring system is also genius where you have to keep the kill chain going, it is stupidly good. the movement, the music, the bullet patterns, the sound effects, the feeling of being "in the zone"...it really nails everything.

and...best (true) last boss last gen. it was an awesome adrenaline rush to beat this, i was literally fist pumping.



if anyone hasn´t played it yet: grab this game, it is master class.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
Isn't some sort of permanent progression also a key element in a roguelite? Spelunky 2 let's you unlock shortcuts and characters, Isaac lets you unlock new items, floors, bosses, and characters. Gungeon lets you collect money that you keep on death to buy new weapon unlocks. We don't really know what sort of "permanent progression" there is here between runs.

Yeah, we have absolutely no idea how much between-run progression will be featured in Returnal, based on the trailers we've seen.

On the other hand, it really doesn't have to be a feature of a roguelike.
 

IOTS

Member
Dec 13, 2019
805
its a cycle isn't it?

Unique AAA game comes out -> people don't buy it or wait for sale -> Game doesn't sell well -> less unique games come out -> People complain about the industry being too safe -> rinse and repeat.
Thats why you have to keep building your brand. Housemarque is known to the hardcore but to the general public they really are not a household name developer. I fully expect Returnal to become the sleeperhit of 2021 and that okay. If enough people liked the game maybe the sequel will do better. But here lies the problem. Will there be a sequel to build upon? Housemarque loves making new IP, which I appreciate, but they start from scratch every single time too.

Persona was very niche in the past too. Now its one of the biggest JRPGs around.
 
Oct 29, 2017
810
Seeing the game play I'm interested but not for 69.99. It's weird cause at 60 I'm usually waiting till games drop to 40 or so but at 69.99 I mean what's the sweet spot? $50?
 
Jul 1, 2020
327
I'll be buying this day 1 no doubt, but I sadly expect it to underperform commercially just like Housemarque's other games.
It really is a shame how underrated Housemarque is when they've made some of the most fun and addictive games of the last decade,
 

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,811
Cologne, Germany
If there are any games where i am there day one next year it is Returnal and Deathloop.

considering Destruction All Stars is now "free" with PS Plus i can easily justify the asking price for Returnal and show em support this way.

i want Housemarque to be a part of great experiences going forward and even if the price is too steep for some people i am sure i will get a great game with awesome replayability for my money.

i have a feeling this will become some kind of cult classic game for people that consider "gameplay first" being a huge part of a great game experience. and i am sure they are also nervous launching a game at this price on a new console so they really deserve all support they can get. they are not the people deciding the price, Sony decides that.

this is a team which really understands how important a certain flow is to a great game and they have experienced people who know what works when it comes to a great frantic shooting experience.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,435
Seeing the game play I'm interested but not for 69.99. It's weird cause at 60 I'm usually waiting till games drop to 40 or so but at 69.99 I mean what's the sweet spot? $50?

For me there is no real sweet spot. If there's a game I really want or I want to support a certain dev, I'll pay full price and perhaps skip another game I want less or buy that game later. I'm selective, but still willing to pay full price for certain titles.
 

CurseVox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,356
Massachusetts (USA)
This game looks awesome! Why the hell are people saying this looks like a budget game?!. I actually skipped watching the video yesterday after reading comments questioning it's quality you bastards. I will never listen to you again!! lol
 

Nephilim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,275
After rewatching the 60fps trailer several times i sure can say that i'm pretty hyped for this now.
March could be a good period to gain attention for Returnal+ PS5 owners are thirsty for new shiny titles already i assume.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,689
I really like Housemarque and I think a bullet-helly third-person shooter could be awesome, but I don't think this is going to sell very well at $70. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm worried about Housemarque if they don't have a financial hit here
 

Potterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,408
Well, about the price - Risk of Rain seems to be a similar game, just with not-realistic graphics and it costs 25$. Housemarque isn't a huge studio, right? Unless the game is rich with cutscenes and "typical AAA stuff" than I think asking for 50$ price isn't crazy.

That being said, I WILL GET THIS even for 70$ at launch because I know I'll play the hell out of it...
 

Zweisy1

Member
Oct 30, 2017
561
Housemarque = instant purchase.

The concept of the game sounds interesting and fortunately it looks to retain a lot of that frantic, tight action that games like Stardust, Resogun and Nex Machina were know for.
 

Dr. Doom

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,509
I am all digital. Have been since 2013.

The last time bought a game at full price was GOW. And I simply will never pay anything more than $50 for any game. Which kinda means I would never buy a game on launch day. Most likely not within the first 3- 6 months. Games that launch at or under $50 that I want though, well they have got my money.
Waiting that long for a game must suck tbh.

Physical games drop in value more quickly - you often see sales from major retailers. And then there is also the second hand market.

You also would have the ability to recoup some of your money by selling physical copies.
 

Sign

Member
Oct 31, 2017
424
So glad I got the disk version. I'm gonna be buying a ton of used games this generation. I wouldn't pay $70 for demon's souls and I definitely wouldn't pay $70 for returnal. It looks like a game I'd enjoy, but definitely not for that price.

Same here. At $90cad for games, I just can't afford to take chances on games outside of a handful that I am fully confident in. Going to be a lot more waiting for sales, picking up cheap disks etc. I really hope Sony is smart enough to take the right message from this and understand people are judging the price and not the game. I would hate to see good developers "punished" for poor sales when it isn't an indictment of the gameplay.

Not sure why people think this should be a budget title (although I agree that £70 is too expensive for any game). Production values look high, graphics looks great...it looks like a pretty big budget title.
[/QUOTE

I can only speak for myself but Housemarque has usually occupied a more mid-tier space in the Sony line-up offering smaller, cheaper, arcadey games with good replay value so that is the lense this is being viewed through and the assumption that is being made. I am open to this being a big budget, full price game but I am going to have to wait for impressions at launch to make that determination
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,089
Los Angeles, CA
Isn't some sort of permanent progression also a key element in a roguelite? Spelunky 2 let's you unlock shortcuts and characters, Isaac lets you unlock new items, floors, bosses, and characters. Gungeon lets you collect money that you keep on death to buy new weapon unlocks. We don't really know what sort of "permanent progression" there is here between runs.
Yeah, we have absolutely no idea how much between-run progression will be featured in Returnal, based on the trailers we've seen.

On the other hand, it really doesn't have to be a feature of a roguelike.

According to the game page itself, at the very least, there will be alien tech you can scavenge to upgrade your abilities for future cycles. So I imagine it will be somewhat similar to other roguelikes/lites, that let you keep certain things, while losing others in each cycle. What those specifically will be remains to be seen, but I'd expect things like weapon use cooldown, movement speed, invincibility frame increases, dodge distance, etc, would potentially be carry over functions (these are a bunch of made up things, only based off of what we've seen of the gameplay itself, and what I imagine would be tools the player would have at their disposal when making runs).

The game definitely doesn't seem like a pure rogue game, where you legitimately start from scratch after each death.
 
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Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,811
Cologne, Germany
Well, maybe when enough people complain, it will be the free PS Plus game for march.

/s

According to the game page itself, at the very least, there will be alien tech you can scavenge to upgrade your abilities for future cycles. So I imagine it will be somewhat similar to other roguelikes/lites, that let you keep certain things, while losing others in each cycle. What those specifically will be remains to be seen, but I'd expect things like weapon use cooldown, movement speed, invincibility frame increases, dodge distance, etc, would potentially be carry over functions (these are a bunch of made up things, only based off of what we've seen of the gameplay itself, and what I imagine would be tools the player would have at their disposal when making runs).

The game definitely doesn't seem like a pure rogue game, where you legitimately start from scratch after each death.

it is supposed to be a roguelite, there will be something that you keep after each run. could be experience points for buying skills, could be items to use, could be weapon unlocks, could be something else.

Well, about the price - Risk of Rain seems to be a similar game, just with not-realistic graphics and it costs 25$. Housemarque isn't a huge studio, right? Unless the game is rich with cutscenes and "typical AAA stuff" than I think asking for 50$ price isn't crazy.

That being said, I WILL GET THIS even for 70$ at launch because I know I'll play the hell out of it...

I think Sony is very well aware that these are niche games nowadays. they try to milk day one buyers like me with the pricetag and it will continue to sell on countless sales. they have the "big" exclusives like GoW 2 or Horizon 2 to rake in the big money.(for what i would never pay 70 bucks because it is one and done, but as i said, to each their own.)
 
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Truth411

Member
Sep 25, 2018
60
Totally Excited for Returnal. Its Alienation and Metriod Prime had a baby with bullet storm vibes from what I see.