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Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,316
Pencils Vania
I don't see why the run/walk animation couldn't be better. You can have good animation and responsibe controls.

Vanquish is frantic af but still animates great.
Speeding up stairs in multiple directions while shit is popping off...feet placing perfectly on the stairs doesn't seem very feasible.

Vanquish was a character action game where you can do things like take cover. This is an actual full blown bullet hell game from. Those games aren't really comparable. Returnal has more in common with The Binding of Isaac.
Is this also a PS4 game? Them specifying that this was captured on PS5 and the good but not great looking visuals at least give me the impression this could be cross gen.
PS5 only.

In what world does that not look good visually?
 

s y

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,431
Speeding up stairs in multiple directions while shit is popping off...feet placing perfectly on the stairs doesn't seem very feasible.

Vanquish was a character action game where you can do things like take cover. This is an actual full blown bullet hell game from. Those games aren't really comparable. Returnal has more in common with The Binding of Isaac.

PS5 only.

In what world does that not look good visually?
You don't think the ps4 could handle this game at 1080p? It looks good visually but not "next gen only" good 🤷‍♂️

I'm looking forward to it(when it goes on sale)
 

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
24,755
In what world does that not look good visually?

You might want to read my post again. :) I literally said it looked "good".
I'll still answer though. Upon glancing over the trailer again I don't think the comparatively low polygon environment assets, no or hardly any ambient occlusion, flickering shadows etc. look great.
 
Last edited:

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,316
Pencils Vania
You might want to read my post again. :) I literally said it looked "good".
I'll still answer though. Upon glancing over the trailer again. I don't think the comparatively low polygon environment assets, no or hardly any ambient occlusion, flickering shadows etc. look great.
It's a fully 3D 60fps bullet hell roguelike. It's absolutely incredible looking for what it is. Is there another game of this type that looks anything close to this fidelity wise?
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,316
Pencils Vania
You don't think the ps4 could handle this game at 1080p? It looks good visually but not "next gen only" good 🤷‍♂️

I'm looking forward to it(when it goes on sale)
No I don't think it could. Enemy animation/complexity and the amount of projectiles on screen is above what the PS4 could do at 60fps IMO.

Environments are somewhat sparse but it's a randomly generated roguelike. So I think that's inherent to the style. These are more interconnected arenas than anything.
 

Deleted member 3017

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,653
I would never say this game isn't worth $70, but I do think introducing a roguelite to a wide audience at around $50 would probably do wonders for this game. At the same time, it's early in the generation and a game like this at full price has a better shot at success than it would a few years from now.
 

rntongo

Banned
Jan 6, 2020
2,712
Speeding up stairs in multiple directions while shit is popping off...feet placing perfectly on the stairs doesn't seem very feasible.

Vanquish was a character action game where you can do things like take cover. This is an actual full blown bullet hell game from. Those games aren't really comparable. Returnal has more in common with The Binding of Isaac.

PS5 only.

In what world does that not look good visually?

The scene at the steps definitely doesn't look impressive.You can see the aliasing on the shadows, and janky animations as she goes up the steps. Previous gameplay trailers looked waay better.
 

Zetta

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,642
I need a PS5 before this releases, damn this looks good. Also I have to give it up to the voice acting, felt the terror in her voice.
 

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Australia
As much as I'm pumped to play this, the reaction to the game on Era has me concerned about how well it'll do commercially.

It seems like when people see a roguelike they want a cheap game, but when they see a third-person perspective they want a game with Naughty Dog-grade production values. It's not hard to see how these two things conflict with one another.

I'll be in day-one regardless.
 

Jamaro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,281
This game has always looked intriguing to me, and none of the videos they've shown have done anything to diminish my interest. I don't know if I'm going to get used to $70, particularly with being spoiled with Best Buy's GCU for several years, but I think this game will be worth it, and I'd be glad to support the devs. I got so many hours of fun out of Resogun, far more than I imagined I would.
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,316
Pencils Vania
As much as I'm pumped to play this, the reaction to the game on Era has me concerned about how well it'll do commercially.

It seems like when people see a roguelike they want a cheap game, but when they see a third-person perspective they want a game with Naughty Dog-grade production values. It's not hard to see how these two things conflict with one another.

I'll be in day-one regardless.
Yup. Good explanation of the disconnect that's happening.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,111
Los Angeles, CA
I'm so damn excited for this game!

I already pre-ordered it, because I trust in Housemarque, and the game looks fantastic. Now it's just the agonizing wait to launch! Fortunately, I have so much to play in between that I'm hoping I can clear out a few more games from the backlog before it hits!

The atmosphere looks awesome, and intriguing. I'm so glad Housemarque was given the opportunity to spread their creative wings on this one.
 

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
QLD, Australia
From the look of the footage in this and other trailers/teasers they're still using content from the same build used for the announcement trailer back in June 2020, so I'm pretty sanguine about framerate etc.

Day-1
 

Deleted member 3017

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,653
As much as I'm pumped to play this, the reaction to the game on Era has me concerned about how well it'll do commercially.

It seems like when people see a roguelike they want a cheap game, but when they see a third-person perspective they want a game with Naughty Dog-grade production values. It's not hard to see how these two things conflict with one another.

I'll be in day-one regardless.
It sucks, but you're actually kind of spot-on here. People simply have different expectations when a game is AAA. I hope there's room in the market for some AAA roguelites, but I'm wary.
 

LebGuns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,127
As much as I'm pumped to play this, the reaction to the game on Era has me concerned about how well it'll do commercially.

It seems like when people see a roguelike they want a cheap game, but when they see a third-person perspective they want a game with Naughty Dog-grade production values. It's not hard to see how these two things conflict with one another.

I'll be in day-one regardless.
Right, because this forum's reaction is a good estimate for commercial success. Eg, Days Gone.

Also, not in response to your comment, but I wonder how many people here criticizing the rougelike nature of this game were all for Hades being GOTY.
 

Cth

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
1,808
I love roguelikes and have been really hyped for the game.

My only concern is how bullet-helly it is. I don't want to pay $70 for something that I'm going to be frustrated at. I'm nearing 50 and don't have time for that :D

I mean, I can appreciate the Super Meat Boys, Rayman Legends, Celeste, They Bleed Pixels, Cuphead type games, but I'm leery if that makes sense. I get that you're going to die, and expected to die but I have no idea how forgiving it's going to be.

Has there been any talk about this aspect of the game yet?
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
You don't think the ps4 could handle this game at 1080p? It looks good visually but not "next gen only" good 🤷‍♂️

I'm looking forward to it(when it goes on sale)
Not if the changing environments are a part of the gameplay mechanic.

As much as I'm pumped to play this, the reaction to the game on Era has me concerned about how well it'll do commercially.

It seems like when people see a roguelike they want a cheap game, but when they see a third-person perspective they want a game with Naughty Dog-grade production values. It's not hard to see how these two things conflict with one another.

I'll be in day-one regardless.
Don't you know? Era's general opinion is usually always disillusioned and seldom ever reflects what would happen in the real world. Just look at the Switch.

I wouldn't listen to Era if I were you.
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,642
Right, because this forum's reaction is a good estimate for commercial success. Eg, Days Gone.

Also, not in response to your comment, but I wonder how many people here criticizing the rougelike nature of this game were all for Hades being GOTY.
Or when HZD was deemed the flop of 2017 on the old forum. I was not a fan of roguelites until I played Dead Cells and later, Hades, and realized how far the genre has come. You can absolutely have a 20-30 hr linear narrative that fit into the nature of a repeat runs game. Heck I'd say Soulsborne genre is a pseudo-roguelike between two bonfires, and you progress one bonfire section at a time, slowly moving the reset point forward.
 

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Australia
Right, because this forum's reaction is a good estimate for commercial success. Eg, Days Gone.

Point taken, but if even the super enthusiasts here (and let's be honest, Returnal doesn't seem like a game that'll find the super casual GTA/COD/FIFA crowd) are finding the price too high and the production value too low, I can't help wondering if that might manifest at a larger scale.

I hope I'm worrying unduly!

Don't you know? Era's general opinion is usually always disillusioned and seldom ever reflects what would happen in the real world. Just look at the Switch.

I wouldn't listen to Era if I were you.

In most cases I wouldn't put much weight on the Era factor, but Returnal seems like a niche title that'll find its audience mostly among the "hardcore" community. It's a pretty different prospect to something like the Switch, or even a game like Days Gone imo.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
It sucks, but you're actually kind of spot-on here. People simply have different expectations when a game is AAA. I hope there's room in the market for some AAA roguelites, but I'm wary.
I never really got this AAA nonsense. To me, a dev can choose to price their game at whatever price they want. And a customer can choose to buy a game at whatever price they want.

I don't consider myself cheap, but I will hardly ever buy a game for anything over $30. I kinda have this thing where I must get at least 3 games with every $100 I spend. The only time I made an exception to this was I think with GoW. So I find it funny when I see people complaining about game prices. Talk with your wallets.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
In most cases I wouldn't put much weight on the Era factor, but Returnal seems like a niche title that'll find its audience mostly among the "hardcore" community. It's a pretty different prospect to something like the Switch, or even a game like Days Gone imo.
I don't see anything wrong with that. The souls series also started off as a niche franchise, and arguably still is. But that's not saying it's not worth whatever the devs think ts worth. Making it $40 doesn't make it mainstream. And if it actually turns out to be a goo game, those hardcore gamers will recommend it a lot. As it gets cheaper, more people will try it out.
 

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Australia
I don't see anything wrong with that. The souls series also started off as a niche franchise, and arguably still is. But that's not saying it's not worth whatever the devs think ts worth. Making it $40 doesn't make it mainstream. And if it actually turns out to be a goo game, those hardcore gamers will recommend it a lot. As it gets cheaper, more people will try it out.

There might be some crossed wires here; I'm not arguing in favour of a lower price. I'm just commenting on the way that expectations of certain features or attributes (genre, gameplay perspective) might negatively impact sales.

I'm, perfectly happy paying full price (even if I'm not happy about what "full price" is in Australia this generation) and will be doing so on day one.
 

Deleted member 4518

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,278
As much as I'm pumped to play this, the reaction to the game on Era has me concerned about how well it'll do commercially.

It seems like when people see a roguelike they want a cheap game, but when they see a third-person perspective they want a game with Naughty Dog-grade production values. It's not hard to see how these two things conflict with one another.

I'll be in day-one regardless.
This forum is a relatively small bubble compared to the actual size of the gaming market, I'm sure the game will do fine.
 

Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,709
We also don't know what its commercial targets are. I am assuming it is something like Control which earned profits as a AAA game by only selling 2 million. I see Returnal as a game with comparable budget.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
There might be some crossed wires here; I'm not arguing in favour of a lower price. I'm just commenting on the way that expectations of certain features or attributes (genre, gameplay perspective) might negatively impact sales.

I'm, perfectly happy paying full price (even if I'm not happy about what "full price" is in Australia this generation) and will be doing so on day one.
Oh ok.. I understand you now lol.

I've heard horror stories about prices in Australia.
 

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Australia
This forum is a relatively small bubble compared to the actual size of the gaming market, I'm sure the game will do fine.

I think it's more a question of whether or not the price/quality expectations we're seeing here are limited to Era, or if they're more widespread. I guess we'll see soon enough!

We also don't know what its commercial targets are. I am assuming it is something like Control which earned profits as a AAA game by only selling 2 million. I see Returnal as a game with comparable budget.

That's a good point. I can't imagine Returnal cost anywhere near as much as some of Sony's other big third-person exclusives.

Oh ok.. I understand you now lol.

I've heard horror stories about prices in Australia.

The cost of a new title like Returnal or Ratchet Rift Apart at our Gamestop equivalent here is $125 AUD. That's $99 in Americabucks. Last gen, new titles were generally at least $25 AUD cheaper.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
Looking better each time. Don't know why some are questioning the price just because it's not AAAA budget.
 

Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,709
That's a good point. I can't imagine Returnal cost anywhere near as much as some of Sony's other big third-person exclusives.

Yup!

I just looked at Controls numbers and it sold 2 million copies ( including discounts) in 2 years with a budget of 36 million USD and still made good money.

I don't see Returnal teams targets any more ambitious than Controls imo. I expect the budget to be similar to those numbers if not less.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,472
Yup!

I just looked at Controls numbers and it sold 2 million copies ( including discounts) in 2 years with a budget of 36 million USD and still made good money.

I don't see Returnal teams targets any more ambitious than Controls imo. I expect the budget to be similar to those numbers if not less.

Fun little but of trivia for those who didn't know: Returnal has the same narrative director as Control.
 

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,622
You might want to read my post again. :) I literally said it looked "good".
I'll still answer though. Upon glancing over the trailer again I don't think the comparatively low polygon environment assets, no or hardly any ambient occlusion, flickering shadows etc. look great.
You can see that the rooms are seperated like in Metroid Prime but with no actual loading times. I don't think that the PS4 could handle that when games generally let you crawl in these kind of transitions.
 

JJD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,503
Fun little but of trivia for those who didn't know: Returnal has the same narrative director as Control.
That's great! Loved Control world and setting!

Got Returnal pre ordered, I love rogue like and Housemarque games so this feels like it was made for me!

Too bad it got delayed a couple weeks...
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,127
This reminds me of annihilation...mainly in the protagonist, the sense of mystery and strangeness of the beasts.
 

SuperOctopus

Member
Apr 22, 2020
2,648
I'm so damn excited for this game!

I already pre-ordered it, because I trust in Housemarque, and the game looks fantastic. Now it's just the agonizing wait to launch! Fortunately, I have so much to play in between that I'm hoping I can clear out a few more games from the backlog before it hits!

The atmosphere looks awesome, and intriguing. I'm so glad Housemarque was given the opportunity to spread their creative wings on this one.
This is basically me at the moment :D
I have a nice backlog so I won't have any problems to get to the end of April but I really can't wait to play this game. I pre-ordered it as I love Housemarque and I want to send a clear signal of "Please, keep Housemarque alive" so I hope the game sells well. Nex Machina was incredible on so many different levels and I was so bummed a few years ago when the game didn't do really well and they announced they wanted to stop the type of games the studio is known for.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,111
Los Angeles, CA
This is basically me at the moment :D
I have a nice backlog so I won't have any problems to get to the end of April but I really can't wait to play this game. I pre-ordered it as I love Housemarque and I want to send a clear signal of "Please, keep Housemarque alive" so I hope the game sells well. Nex Machina was incredible on so many different levels and I was so bummed a few years ago when the game didn't do really well and they announced they wanted to stop the type of games the studio is known for.

I recently bought Nex Machina when it was on sale for $5, but I haven't gotten around to playing it. The funny thing to me is that the types of games Housemarque makes aren't generally my type of game, but I frigging loved Super Stardust HD, Resogun, Dead Nation, and Alienation. I don't know what it is, but their games always manage to suck me in, when other games in the genre from other studios do nothing for me. It's so weird lol

Returnal is in a setting I love (sci fi horror), and a genre I've recently fallen in love with (roguelikes), from a developer with a strong pedigree of fun games that I loved. It was a no brainer I'd support their first AAA effort!
 

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,811
Cologne, Germany
If this one delivers in the way i am imagining the game...i don´t need anything else to play this year. (ok, maybe Deathloop...)

and i see, the price discussion is still rolling...big tip, if it isn´t worth the price for you, buy it used or in a sale, thats totally fine and thats how i will do it for many other games like R&C or Horizon 2.
 

EVIL

Senior Concept Artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,782
this has grown on me more and more. wasn't really into it in its initial showing, but I am really liking where they are going with this game.
 

SixelAlexiS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,727
Italy
Sony is trying to sell this game to the wrong ppl pretending it's an AAA cinematic experience or sort of... surely an aggressive strategy but a lot of ppl will be disappointed by it.