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tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,235
after doug ford, i'm just not drinking the canadian juice anymore.

Doug Ford's party only got 40% of the votes after a very terrible year for the Ontario Liberals. This is what vote splitting does. It usually only takes 35-40% of the votes on the conservative side to win because that's more of a unified front vs the left-leaning parties.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
People living outside a country hate anti-immigrant rhetoric far more than people living in it, news at 11.

Like, compare this to the conservative vote up there and there's pretty clearly a bunch of people who are just straight up lying or delusional about their own behavior.
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,632
Start the annexation process.

I made this map in Microsoft Paint about a decade ago (hence why Michigan and Pennsylvania aren't swing states, and Virginia and Colorado are). If Canada joins the U.S. it's very difficult for a Republican to win the Presidency again. This map was made assuming Canada joins as one state, instead of of the 10 provinces becoming 10 new states. If the 10 provinces did become individual states it would mean upwards of 20 new Democratic Senators and more electoral votes, enough electoral votes to not need any midwestern swing state to win (Virginia or Colorado would be enough).

46523223441_294c394c16_b.jpg

It wouldn't work like this. The 10 provinces wouldn't join as 10 states. And Canada wouldn't join as 1 humongous state either. AB would probably be a red state. QC would be divvied up into like 2 or 3 states. It wouldn't be as clean cut as one would think. It's kind of similar on if PR ever joins the union, they would not be a clear blue state like folks would expect.
 

meow

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,094
NYC
Petition to have the US west coast, northeast, and upper mid-atlantic absorbed into Canada. Illinois, Michigan, and whoever else wants to come, can. People displaced by Brexit can also come. The racists and bigots can fuck off by themselves into their own new country.
 
OP
OP
.Detective.

.Detective.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,660
We still have the problem of the left vote being split between the Liberals, Greens and NDP whereas the Conservatives have that 35% base that will.vote for them even if they run a pylon for Prime Minister.

Actually with Scheer they do have a pylon.

I agree, however I disagree on the pylon thing. We shouldn't discriminate against pylons like that.

Also, Scheer is fucking legit evil. I mean, google "Andrew Scheer smile" and tell me I am not crazy for thinking the dude looks sinister as fuck, especially when that smile doesn't even reach his eyes. Sociopathic motherfucker..
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,978
And yet, we still somehow elect Doug Ford.

I did my part, and voted NDP, but I guess we'll see what happens for our Federal election.

On the other hand, while I'm not totally surprised to hear most Canadians would vote Democrat, I'm kind of wondering what the point was of a survey/study like that. Is that somehow more meaningful than a study that indicated 8/10 Japanese wouldn't vote for Trump?
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,013
But there we have the different that social conservatism exists in the US, while it is considered unconstitutional in most European countries. I mean, you can hold these values if you want, but trying to enforce them politically would be unconstitutional.
It depends on what kind of right wing social policies you would still classify as "conservative" though. Racism and xenophobia I would not call conservative, even though these are considered conservative by many US citizens - and acceptable positions in the political discourse. Favouring traditional family structures (if you are a German, remember the discussion about "Herdprämie") or less accepting views on homsexuality (e.g. voting against gay marriage, as a good portion of the German conservatives have done) are not unconstitutional in Germany either, and are considered conservative positions. In fact, we currently even have discussion on whether it should be allowed to resuce people who are about to drown while trying to migrate to Germany, with the former head of the part of German intelligence watching over the constitution, Maaßen, going full Trump in that regard:
 

Ecotic

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,408
Start the annexation process.
It wouldn't work like this. The 10 provinces wouldn't join as 10 states. And Canada wouldn't join as 1 humongous state either. AB would probably be a red state. QC would be divvied up into like 2 or 3 states. It wouldn't be as clean cut as one would think. It's kind of similar on if PR ever joins the union, they would not be a clear blue state like folks would expect.
Yeah, it wouldn't be so simple, but the basic premise still holds, when the pluses and minuses are added up it would still be a substantial benefit to Democrats on election day. Democrats would take the vast majority of Canada's electoral votes no matter how the lines are drawn.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,391
Phoenix
Petition to have the US west coast, northeast, and upper mid-atlantic absorbed into Canada. Illinois, Michigan, and whoever else wants to come, can. People displaced by Brexit can also come. The racists and bigots can fuck off by themselves into their own new country.
Let's wait for AZ to turn Blue so we can join. Thanks! Hopefully 2020.
 
OP
OP
.Detective.

.Detective.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,660
Petition to have the US west coast, northeast, and upper mid-atlantic absorbed into Canada. Illinois, Michigan, and whoever else wants to come, can. People displaced by Brexit can also come. The racists and bigots can fuck off by themselves into their own new country.

Sometimes I wonder if this is what will occur naturally when climate change starts hitting the breaking point. Like folks in the areas you mentioned naturally start mass migrating or joining Canada(if the US government doesn't try some evil takeover shit by then), whereas others who are too firmly bewitched by the lies Republicans have been spinning for years about America's exceptionalism, stay behind and live out the rest of their possibly shorter lives similar to that dog in the cartoon about the house on fire in the background.

People have been saying that we can likely expect a ton of UK based immigration once Brexit truly occurs.
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,632
Yeah, it wouldn't be so simple, but the basic premise still holds, when the pluses and minuses are added up it would still be a substantial benefit to Democrats on election day. Democrats would take the vast majority of Canada's electoral votes no matter how the lines are drawn.

Yes and no. Republicans would require states to be split (i.e. California, Oregon). They would also require the new states to be gerrymandered to keep the balance. While there'd be more left leaning people voting, republicans would make sure there are enough right leaning districts.
 

L176

Member
Jan 10, 2019
772
Pretty much the same numbers that I have counted here in Finland as well. About 75-80% of our parlament would be democrats. Would be pretty much the same for the voters
 

VectorPrime

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
11,781
I wouldn't be surprised if there were similar numbers in the UK and yet their own shit politicians are stilldoing a great job of getting elected and ruining their country anyway.
 

Davidion

Charitable King
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,068
The only issue is of that 80%, they are split between Liberals, Green, NDP, and the slightly right-leaning Canadian (who often switch between Liberals and Conservatives and usually just favours those that speak to economic & tax issues - ignoring rest of the platform)

So that hardcore racist selfish 20% of Canada ends up actually making a big difference in elections because if enough of the slightly right-leaning / heavy moderate Canadian swings conservatives to put conservative numbers up to 35% from 20%, it's enough for Liberals, NDP, and Greens to split the vote enough to lose.

I mean, that's somewhat descriptive of the US electorate as well.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
Doug Ford's party only got 40% of the votes after a very terrible year for the Ontario Liberals. This is what vote splitting does. It usually only takes 35-40% of the votes on the conservative side to win because that's more of a unified front vs the left-leaning parties.
I mean, Trump didn't get a majority either.
 

Ecotic

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,408
Yes and no. Republicans would require states to be split (i.e. California, Oregon). They would also require the new states to be gerrymandered to keep the balance. While there'd be more left leaning people voting, republicans would make sure there are enough right leaning districts.
I imagine if Canada is ever peacefully admitted into the United States, it'll be because Democrats have the Presidency and Congress. New states can be admitted by a simple Congressional majority. The Democratic President offers a treaty to the Canadians on favorable terms for Democrats (10 new states or even 1 big state), the Canadians accept, then the Democratic Congress approves on a party-line vote and Republicans never had a say in the process at all. This avoids an 1800's-style grand compromise that you outlined where existing states get split up and Canada's lines get drawn in favorable terms for Republicans.

I think Republicans would never agree to Canada being admitted because it's so overwhelmingly left-leaning that it's extremely difficult to gerrymander that lean away, so the admittance process basically can only occur when Republicans are completely out of power and have no say in how Canada is admitted.
 

Byakuya769

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,718
May I suggest a merger? We'll trick the Republicans by pointing out that it would make America whiter.
 
OP
OP
.Detective.

.Detective.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,660
I imagine if Canada is ever peacefully admitted into the United States, it'll be because Democrats have the Presidency and Congress. New states can be admitted by a simple Congressional majority. The Democratic President offers a treaty to the Canadians on favorable terms for Democrats (10 new states or even 1 big state), the Canadians accept, then the Democratic Congress approves on a party-line vote and Republicans never had a say in the process at all. This avoids an 1800's-style grand compromise that you outlined where existing states get split up and Canada's lines get drawn in favorable terms for Republicans.

I think Republicans would never agree to Canada being admitted because it's so overwhelmingly left-leaning that it's extremely difficult to gerrymander that lean away, so the admittance process basically can only occur when Republicans are completely out of power and have no say in how Canada is admitted.

tfw you realize the solutions to all of America's problems, is Canada.
 

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,235
I mean, that's somewhat descriptive of the US electorate as well.
I mean, Trump didn't get a majority either.

It's quite different. We elect based on riding. Imagine your house determined who was the president by being leader of the party. We don't directly vote for our prime minister and/or premiers. Also the percentages are closer.

Percentage46.1%48.2%

Here was the Ontario results:

Percentage40.50%33.59%

If NDP or Liberals got 48% they would have won.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,978
May I suggest a merger? We'll trick the Republicans by pointing out that it would make America whiter.

I cannot even imagine how, if Canada were a part of the US in its current form, the Republicans would have to carve up the voting districts in each province in order to gerrymander the electoral college. I don't think it's possible for the current Republican government to view Canada as anything other than a conquest, with its citizens having no voting rights. If it were lawfully inducted into the US, the Republicans probably couldn't survive it election-wise if Canadians have the vote, and EC were intact.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
It's quite different. We elect based on riding. Imagine your house determined who was the president by being leader of the party. We don't directly vote for our prime minister and/or premiers. Also the percentages are closer.

Percentage46.1%48.2%

Here was the Ontario results:

Percentage40.50%33.59%

If NDP or Liberals got 48% they would have won.

The question is, if the other parties didn't exist, would 100% of the vote go to the other not conservative parties and not end up with non voters or conservative voters(Either would boost conservatives percentage, likely to Trump levels)? I doubt that. I mean, if we're doing that, if 100% of 3rd party voters voters went dem Trump wouldn't be President either.
 

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,235
The question is, if the other parties didn't exist, would 100% of the vote go to the other not conservative parties and not end up with non voters or conservative voters? I doubt that. I mean, if we're doing that, if 100% of 3rd party voters voters went dem Trump wouldn't be President either.

The other parties account for 20-30% of the vote usually where you either see a split between Liberals and Conservatives or NDP and Conservatives depending on federal or specific provinces. Very different than US where third party voters account for less than 5% of the popular vote.

If you consolidated down the left-leaning parties to 1, conservatives would never win. But I like the fact we have choice. We just need to get rid of our First Past the Post voting system and change to Ranked Ballot / Proportional Voting where you can do things like:

"My first choice is NDP but my 2nd choice is Liberals".
 
OP
OP
.Detective.

.Detective.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,660
I cannot even imagine how, if Canada were a part of the US in its current form, the Republicans would have to carve up the voting districts in each province in order to gerrymander the electoral college. I don't think it's possible for the current Republican government to view Canada as anything other than a conquest, with its citizens having no voting rights. If it were lawfully inducted into the US, the Republicans probably couldn't survive it election-wise if Canadians have the vote, and EC were intact.

Yeah, Canada would essentially kill off whatever support the Republican party has(and take our Conservatives out with them in in single leg sweep), as we would be like poison to them. Imagine the amount of more media focus that universal healthcare would have, if actual citizens and government representatives under such a working system were allowed to testify under oath about it, rather than have existing US citizens who don't have a fucking clue about it, try to explain the Canadian system to their fellow Americans?

Holy shit, it would be a silver fucking bullet to the GOP's heart.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
Official Staff Communication
We are not going to use the OP or this thread to relitigate the 2016 Primary or offer theories as to why one candidate won over the other. This thread is closed.
 
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