New Pokémon Sword & Shield Trailer (Gigantamaxing, new pokémon, version exclusive gym leaders and Pokémon)

[TreeMePls]

Calling it "confirmed" that these are new models is a pretty big stretch, given we've yet to find evidence for this in the video footage released for the games so far. At this point it's safest to assume that the models are reused unless datamining or new footage can confirm otherwise.

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At which point people are going to ask why the hell they look exactly like theyre from the 3DS anyways with no noticeable improvements.

There's literally no good outcome from this and GF is here because they decided to die on the animation/model line.

 

[Pokemaniac]

At which point people are going to ask why the hell they look exactly like theyre from the 3DS anyways with no noticeable improvements.

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Yeah, like the only thing that would resolve would be that Game Freak wouldn't be outright lying. It still wouldn't make them look good, and I'm honestly not sure it would even be a better look than them lying.

 

[TyraZaurus]

You know, on the issue of conduct on all sides of this issue, I don't think that those on the the side of Game Freak have as many instances of things like creating false sexual assault accusations, attacking Joe Merrick for things like simply reporting on an accurate translation, or pushing their goddamn hashtag spam on Masuda when he's interacting with other fans or congratulating people over a marriage. There's more instances of outright misinformation being spread as well.

Even the name "Dexit" is problematic on account how it takes a real policy associated with racism and pigotry and applies it to goddamn virtual monsters/

You want those of us defending GF to take responsibility for the rude or annoying behavior of those whose opinions run counter to yours, then people need to start talking about the outright terrible and trollish behavior of the people on your side of the aisle and not just write them off as a "fringe" you've done nothing to enable. Because, like, again, even the name is broken.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Yo they should update it to [buying] - [not buying]. I'm just curious to get a numerical breakdown of what portion is pro SS and which is against these games. It's hard to tell from this thread since it bounces one way or another almost daily.

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let's not since it'll just devolve into more shit flinging

 

[Amiablepercy]

Calling it "confirmed" that these are new models is a pretty big stretch, given we've yet to find evidence for this in the video footage released for the games so far. At this point it's safest to assume that the models are reused unless datamining or new footage can confirm otherwise.

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They said they aren't reusing assets. It is what it is. The footage while holding my 3DS and looking at the video does looks different to me. You want to cynically assume they are lying that is your right.

 

[PokémonSpears]

Thank you for linking this Tweet.

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This was shown in the video from the previous page that nobody watch past the Google translator part (which was actually Yandex the translator they used)


I think the debate is really silly as some have said. What does it matter if the models were recycled or remade from scratch? Either option makes them look bad, and it's too late to incorporate them on SwSh and they're not gonna patch them, we could all bet on it. The important thing here is that no matter how much time they take for the next games, and how much models they've done in advance with SwSh, they've already sentenced the series to never having the full roster from now on, and that's not a decision made due to technical reasons. They're already revealing their intentions of no wanting to deal with all the Pokémon at once in the future, without even knowing if in a few years they'll have more resources, or if the company is gonna grow bigger or smaller, or if the next console will be compatible with the Switch models, if it has more power, if they give them 10 years to finish a game, nothing matters anymore, they're basically already saying they won't even try, or at least that we shouldn't expect the full Pokédex again. I think that's the saddest thing of it all.

 

[TyraZaurus]

This was shown in the video from the previous page that nobody watch past the Google translator part

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Well thank goodness he "only" attacked Joe Merrick and spread misinformation about what was said then.

 

[Alexhex]

You know, on the issue of conduct on all sides of this issue, I don't think that those on the the side of Game Freak have as many instances of things like creating false sexual assault accusations, attacking Joe Merrick for things like simply reporting on an accurate translation, or pushing their goddamn hashtag spam on Masuda when he's interacting with other fans or congratulating people over a marriage. There's more instances of outright misinformation being spread as well.

Even the name "Dexit" is problematic on account how it takes a real policy associated with racism and pigotry and applies it to goddamn virtual monsters/

You want those of us defending GF to take responsibility for the rude or annoying behavior of those whose opinions run counter to yours, then people need to start talking about the outright terrible and trollish behavior of the people on your side of the aisle and not just write them off as a "fringe" you've done nothing to enable. Because, like, again, even the name is broken.

Click to shrink...

And people have compared folks complaining about gamefreak on twitter to gamergate, which is way more inappropriate. But I would never wag a finger at you and say "sit down and have a think about what your side is doing here, then we can talk."

In general I don't see what wackos being wackos on the internet has to do with anything going on here. The depraved shit is bad and everyone participating in these topics knows and disavows it. Why do we have to sift through all of the baggage of randos who are acting nuts just to criticize a corporation?

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

And people have compared folks complaining about gamefreak on twitter to gamergate, which is way more inappropriate. But I would never wag a finger at you and say "sit down and have a think about what your side is doing here, then we can talk."

In general I don't see what wackos being wackos on the internet has to do with anything going on here. The depraved shit is bad and everyone participating in these topics knows and disavows it. Why do we have to sift through all of the baggage of randos who are acting nuts just to criticize a corporation?

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Because reasonable criticism is being completely drowned by the bullshit. Anyone who legitimately cared should be more pissed off at everyone making the fans look like entitled manbabies en masse.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

This was shown in the video from the previous page that nobody watch past the Google translator part



I think the debate is really silly as some have said. What does it matter if the models were recycled or remade from scratch? Either option makes them look bad, and it's too late to incorporate them on SwSh and they're not gonna patch them, we could all bet on it. The important thing here is that no matter how much time they take for the next games, and how much models they've done in advance with SwSh, they've already sentenced the series to never having the full roster from now on, and that's not a decision made due to technical reasons. They're already revealing their intentions of no wanting to deal with all the Pokémon at once in the future, without even knowing if in a few years they'll have more resources, or if the company is gonna grow bigger or smaller, or if the next console will be compatible with the Switch models, if it has more power, if they give them 10 years to finish a game, nothing matters anymore, they're basically already saying they won't even try, or at least that we shouldn't expect the full Pokédex again. I think that's the saddest thing of it all.

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????

You asked the bolded question and then promptly answered. The fact is that Game Freak shot themselves in the foot by saying that they needed to choose quality over full accessibility to all Pokemon. If they never said that, we wouldn't be having this conversation, and instead, people would be petty about something else.

As for the whole expectation of not having a full Pokedex again. Is it really that sad? XY having non-existent post-game, and ORAS not having the Battle Frontier for absolutely stupid reasons is the start of something like this happening. And Game Freak was insistent that this was going to be their development mentality going forward. So when you see something like no longer having accessibility to the entire Pokedex when you transfer your Pokemon from Bank/Home, then what's more logical? Expecting that to come back at some point, or expecting it to no longer be a series feature?

 

[PokémonSpears]

Well thank goodness he "only" attacked Joe Merrick and spread misinformation about what was said then.

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Oh I don't agree with the attacks to Joe or whoever else he mentioned.

I'm just saying that the Vaporeon model comparison was there, but it seems like a lot of people missed it.

I just think that unless we get a more detailed explanation in English, posted by the official site ( like that vague message we got from Masuda), these Japanese interviews shouldn't be used as an argument to defend GF or attack it even more. Even if we trust the translated text provided to Serebii by the person he knows, it doesn't explain that much:

"Even at the time of Pokémon Sun & Moon, (making it so all Pokémon could be brought over) was actually quite a difficult situation, but this time the hardware is the Switch and it was determined to re-make the models from scratch which meant we had to make a choice somehow. "

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Like, they're saying it was difficult for SM, ok, however they DID include all the Pokémon as we all know. But now the hardware is the Switch, and they determined the models had to be remade from scratch, like what? Why? How come they were able to do that for the 3DS but not for the Switch? And here is where the Vaporeon comparison between the 3DS and Let's Go comes in handy, because they pretty much used the same model, so the Switch isn't the problem, so why couldn't they repeat that formula for SwSh?

Whatever reason is behind that determination "to remake the models from scratch" for SwSh is still yet to be explained (and I really don't think they owe us that explanation, but it would be helpful to understand their decision).

 

[Alexhex]

Because reasonable criticism is being completely drowned by the bullshit. Anyone who legitimately cared should be more pissed off at everyone making the fans look like entitled manbabies en masse.

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I mean, that's fandom baby. Like don't get me wrong the intersection of fanboyism and the internet is terrible and it poisons the human brain but just because fans are misbehaving elsewhere doesn't mean we can't conduct our own business here

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

I mean, that's fandom baby. Like don't get me wrong the intersection of fanboyism and the internet is terrible and it poisons the human brain but just because fans are misbehaving elsewhere doesn't mean we can't conduct our own business here

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Even here It started as a real concern over HOME and the returning Pokemon, then quickly turned into just dumping on every little thing and posting every meme found on the subreddit. Maybe it used to be about sending a message but that feels completely dishonest at this point.

 

[Miller]

You know, on the issue of conduct on all sides of this issue, I don't think that those on the the side of Game Freak have as many instances of things like creating false sexual assault accusations, attacking Joe Merrick for things like simply reporting on an accurate translation, or pushing their goddamn hashtag spam on Masuda when he's interacting with other fans or congratulating people over a marriage. There's more instances of outright misinformation being spread as well.

Even the name "Dexit" is problematic on account how it takes a real policy associated with racism and pigotry and applies it to goddamn virtual monsters/

You want those of us defending GF to take responsibility for the rude or annoying behavior of those whose opinions run counter to yours, then people need to start talking about the outright terrible and trollish behavior of the people on your side of the aisle and not just write them off as a "fringe" you've done nothing to enable. Because, like, again, even the name is broken.

Click to shrink...

I can understand why these actions on the part of some people critiquing Game Freak would sour you to the critique itself. But what you have to understand is that there is no organization on the part of either side of this argument. We are not political parties with direct affiliation to eachother. Our only connection is our opinion on these issues. When someone acts heinously in the course of this debate, they are not doing so under any banner. If you personally accused me of sexual assault, you would have done nothing to diminish the validity of those who agree with me on this issue (independent of what my stance is), nor should it have any baring on those who agree with you on this issue. People may think otherwise, and that is their prerogative, but that's precisely my point. We are individuals populating a variety of stances in this debate. You mention Joe, yet his position probably varies from yours to some degree. Personally, I don't think the state of Sword and Shield has any baring on Game Freak at all (a very rare stance in this debate indeed), but rather on The Pokemon Company. The work of Creatures, Inc. is leveraged on a variety of platforms, so any animation deficiency or oddity barely reflects on Game Freak at all. It's just another byproduct of how The Pokemon Company has structured the franchise, and furthermore, the manpower and development cycle of mainline Pokemon titles speaks to a budget that I find downright inappropriate when taking 25 years of consistent sales into consideration. Frankly, I think Game Freak have done a fantastic job with the resources available to them. I actually often praise their technical acumen (though I am usually referring to early generations.) Is this a stance you've heard before? If not, why does someone saying Game Freak is lazy and attacking Joe Merrick have anything to do with me?

And to speak directly to your point about Dexit, how many people here do you see even using that term? (Granted, I am one of them. You've actually given me food for thought on that topic, so thank you.) I understand that it can be difficult to distinguish posters from one another, especially across multiple threads (I have issues with this myself and I probably can name off the top of my head 8 or 9 ERA members despite being here since the forum's inception), but know that we are not monolithic. None of us. I would say the same to anyone expecting you to somehow take responsibility for those on your "side of the aisle", to continue the earlier political metaphor.

 

[Alexhex]

Even here It started as a real concern over HOME and the returning Pokemon, then quickly turned into just dumping on every little thing and posting every meme found on the subreddit. Maybe it used to be about sending a message but that feels completely dishonest at this point.

Click to shrink...

You can come to a gaming forum just to vent, even aimlessly. I can understand being frustrated with it not always being constructive, but it's okay as long as you're not going out of your way to cause hurt (and for real screw anyone who has sent joe harassing DMs for example)

 

[PokémonSpears]

????

You asked the bolded question and then promptly answered. The fact is that Game Freak shot themselves in the foot by saying that they needed to choose quality over full accessibility to all Pokemon. If they never said that, we wouldn't be having this conversation, and instead, people would be petty about something else.

As for the whole expectation of not having a full Pokedex again. Is it really that sad? XY having non-existent post-game, and ORAS not having the Battle Frontier for absolutely stupid reasons is the start of something like this happening. And Game Freak was insistent that this was going to be their development mentality going forward. So when you see something like no longer having accessibility to the entire Pokedex when you transfer your Pokemon from Bank/Home, then what's more logical? Expecting that to come back at some point, or expecting it to no longer be a series feature?

Click to shrink...

Well, personally I always saw all those things being cut, like the non-existent post-game or no Battle Frontier, even the fact that Gen VI and VII introduced so few Pokémon in comparison to previous generations, as the result of well, they're dealing with a lot of creatures and that's like the main thing in a Pokémon game (like I always imagined that was the first thing they made sure was done: getting all the Pokémon in).

So I do see why some people are taking their statements and now taking every chance to criticize the games for the trailers we've seen. However I do think it's pointless. What do we win or what does it change if we prove the models were recycled or not? Again, personally, they could give me the most amazing animations ever, that still wouldn't justify in my mind the decision to not include all the Pokémon now, and even worse, to not include them ever again in the future games if they're gonna already have a huge part of the Pokémon done with SwSh.

To me it's sad, because that's the main thing I do with the games, bring the whole collection, admire them, use them in battles, make different teams, see the Pokédex entries, etc. With Let's Go I've literally spent more time just watching the models in the Pokédex and changing the Pokémon that follows me and just running around, or running in the Go Park, than actually playing the game. The storyline you just play it once and you never go back at it again, I don't think I've ever done more than a week to beat a game and I know hardcore players do it so much faster, and at the end what you keep doing after that is just the battling, online most of the cases. I bet there are cities and routes a lot of people never visit again in their lifetimes, so I wouldn't mind if the rest of the game gets short in features or characters, as long as they made all the Pokémon available, with regular battle animations (even if that means Blastoise shooting water from its forehead). But that's me.

I guess I'm just done with trying to find an excuse or explanation for the lack of Pokémon in SwSh. The reasons they gave about the models or the balance, to me are just poor excuses, and I just won't even take them seriously. To me it's more important looking forward, like why do they have to doom the series since now, instead of waiting to see if in the future they maybe have the resources and the expertise, and the time to achieve the feat of including all the Pokémon again.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I bet there are cities and routes a lot of people never visit again in their lifetimes,

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Ive been meaning to make a thread about what cities and towns in this series do people actually remember? Like names and all.

Like does anyone remember the starting town in XY? Everyone remembers Pallet Town. Some people probably remmeber New Bark and Littleroot Town. Aspertia City is memorable.

 

[TyraZaurus]

And people have compared folks complaining about gamefreak on twitter to gamergate, which is way more inappropriate. But I would never wag a finger at you and say "sit down and have a think about what your side is doing here, then we can talk."

In general I don't see what wackos being wackos on the internet has to do with anything going on here. The depraved shit is bad and everyone participating in these topics knows and disavows it. Why do we have to sift through all of the baggage of randos who are acting nuts just to criticize a corporation?

Click to shrink...

It's hard to be sympathetic to being likened to GameGate when many of the things I mentioned are Gamergate-esque. Even these threads have been full of "lazy dev" rhetoric from the start and stuff like calling Masuda a "cheap hack".

I can understand why these actions on the part of some people critiquing Game Freak would sour you to the critique itself. But what you have to understand is that there is no organization on the part of either side of this argument. We are not political parties with direct affiliation to eachother. Our only connection is our opinion on these issues. When someone acts heinously in the course of this debate, they are not doing so under any banner. If you personally accused me of sexual assault, you would have done nothing to diminish the validity of those who agree with me on this issue (independent of what my stance is), nor should it have any baring on those who agree with you on this issue. People may think otherwise, and that is their prerogative, but that's precisely my point. We are individuals populating a variety of stances in this debate. You mention Joe, yet his position probably varies from yours to some degree. Personally, I don't think the state of Sword and Shield has any baring on Game Freak at all (a very rare stance in this debate indeed), but rather on The Pokemon Company. The work of Creatures, Inc. is leveraged on a variety of platforms, so any animation deficiency or oddity barely reflects on Game Freak at all. It's just another byproduct of how The Pokemon Company has structured the franchise, and furthermore, the manpower and development cycle of mainline Pokemon titles speaks to a budget that I find downright inappropriate when taking 25 years of consistent sales into consideration. Frankly, I think Game Freak have done a fantastic job with the resources available to them. I actually often praise their technical acumen (though I am usually referring to early generations.) Is this a stance you've heard before? If not, why does someone saying Game Freak is lazy and attacking Joe Merrick have anything to do with me?

And to speak directly to your point about Dexit, how many people here do you see even using that term? (Granted, I am one of them. You've actually given me food for thought on that topic, so thank you.) I understand that it can be difficult to distinguish posters from one another, especially across multiple threads (I have issues with this myself and I probably can name off the top of my head 8 or 9 ERA members despite being here since the forum's inception), but know that we are not monolithic. None of us. I would say the same to anyone expecting you to somehow take responsibility for those on your "side of the aisle", to continue the earlier political metaphor.

Click to shrink...

I know it's not something anyone controls. But when the nature of the debate here is full of people being called shills or being called out for defending a corporation or all manner of ad hominem or misrepresentations of the other side of the argument, while simultaneously acting like that's the whole of what we have to say or how we're acting, I feel like it's perfectly valid to invoke how the nature of the rhetoric in general is breeding stuff like what I talked about. And even then, there IS leadership in regards to silencing of dissenting opinions; the Pokemon reddit drowns out anyone who isn't part of the negative side of this and the moderation there is complicit in it.

Even here I've seen apologism of some of the not-quite-terrible sides of this. Stuff like "it's just a hashtag" or "just a protest" when it's being spammed to people involved in the franchise on their non-Pokemon related accounts and the way the moderation has just "lazy dev" tier stuff keep going on on this board.

Also, I'm perfectly aware that Joe Merrick and I don't align on all things. That's part of my point. The people angry about this and Joe actually have some views in common! That's what makes the backlash against him all the more damning!

And yes, "Dexit" has been thrown out around a lot here.

 

[AllChan7]

I think the reason the overblown criticism has gotten to people is because it is getting harder and harder to have legitimate discussions about the games without it coming back to the same topic.

I can see the OT and the review thread having vids of datamined models and people getting into heated arguments over it

 

[Miller]

Ive been meaning to make a thread about what cities and towns in this series do people actually remember? Like names and all.

Like does anyone remember the starting town in XY? Everyone remembers Pallet Town. Some people probably remmeber New Bark and Littleroot Town. Aspertia City is memorable.

Click to shrink...

Fan since gen 1 here, and if you're saying names and all... none outside of gen 1. I'm literally in the middle a Black playthrough right now (maybe my 3rd or 4th), and I've got nothing. I can remember most Pokemon names, but towns? Nope. Again, outside of gen 1.

Spoiler: Gen 1 cities

I can remember Viridian City, Pewter City, Cerulean City, Vermilion City, Celadon City, Fuschia City, and Cinnabar Island. I am blanking on one of them, and on the town with the graveyard tower.

 

[GreenMamba]

I think the reason the overblown criticism has gotten to people is because it is getting harder and harder to have legitimate discussions about the games without it coming back to the same topic.

I can see the OT and the review thread having vids of datamined models and people getting into heated arguments over it

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It's the bed GameFreak has made for the fanbase.

 

[Apa504]

What are you even talking about? It's an animation he's been using since XY and the issue is that they set the attack to come out of the wrong place.

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Yes, and the animation had no issues, but now there is an issue with the new feature, so it not the same animation.

We already had Pokémon Amie and Pokémon Refresh in gen 6 and 7 respectively though, so they'll probably reuse the animations from those.

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Some yeah, but not all.

 

[Omegamon]

Do people even actually remember what happened with GamerGate? It was people harrasing and doxing women, journalist,etc. Not people calling a dev "lazy".

 

[GreenMamba]

Do people even actually remember what happened with GamerGate? It was people harrasing and doxing women, journalist,etc. Not people calling a dev "lazy".

Click to shrink...

Anyone actually comparing the backlash to GamerGate is not interested in arguing in good faith, they're doing so because they want to shut down discussion.

 

[Apa504]

It's the bed GameFreak has made for the fanbase.

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Nah, the fanbase has always been toxic.

 

[Alexhex]

It's hard to be sympathetic to being likened to GameGate when many of the things I mentioned are Gamergate-esque. Even these threads have been full of "lazy dev" rhetoric from the start and stuff like calling Masuda a "cheap hack".

Click to shrink...

They're not even close. Gg was, from it's conception, a concerted effort to push women, minorities, lgbtq and otherwise marginalized folks out of the gaming industry. That was the goal. When you compare it to some silly pokemon hashtag you're selling the narrative that gg was something similar and it just became corrupted at some point. And that, is actual misinformation

 

[Omegamon]

Anyone actually comparing the backlash to GamerGate is not interested in arguing in good faith, they're doing so because they want to shut down discussion.

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Yeah it's either that or someone privileged enough to think calling their fav dev "lazy" is the same at people harrasing minorities because some opinions.

 

[TyraZaurus]

Ive been meaning to make a thread about what cities and towns in this series do people actually remember? Like names and all.

Like does anyone remember the starting town in XY? Everyone remembers Pallet Town. Some people probably remmeber New Bark and Littleroot Town. Aspertia City is memorable.

Click to shrink...

I remember Ecruteak because it's one of the few cities in Johto that's actually memorable with important landmarks that aren't just inspired by locations in Kanto.

In Hoenn, almost every location is memorable. You had Rustboro, the first early game city that actually felt like a city, Dewford, the combination of a seaside and mining community, Slateport, a thriving port, Mauville, which was memorably reworked into an excellent commentary on commercial metropolises and urban life in the remake, Fallarbor and Lavaridge Town, living in the shadow of a volcano, Fortree, which has humans living in harmony with nature in tree based houses, and Sootopolis, built in a crater in the ocean. That game is full of locations that have a lot of thought and love put into them.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Well, personally I always saw all those things being cut, like the non-existent post-game or no Battle Frontier, even the fact that Gen VI and VII introduced so few Pokémon in comparison to previous generations, as the result of well, they're dealing with a lot of creatures and that's like the main thing in a Pokémon game (like I always imagined that was the first thing they made sure was done: getting all the Pokémon in).

Click to shrink...

The bolded is wrong though. There's nothing GF has said about the smaller dex of new Pokemon from the Gen VI and VII games (at least none that I could find), but they've been on record saying that they feel that because of competition with mobile gaming, that it means they want their games to be easier so they can accommodate children's attention spans and not have them be frustrated and no longer interested in the game. And this is a strange conclusion to come to considering how Pokemon attracts people of multiple demographic segments.

So I do see why some people are taking their statements and now taking every chance to criticize the games for the trailers we've seen. However I do think it's pointless. What do we win or what does it change if we prove the models were recycled or not? Again, personally, they could give me the most amazing animations ever, that still wouldn't justify in my mind the decision to not include all the Pokémon now, and even worse, to not include them ever again in the future games if they're gonna already have a huge part of the Pokémon done with SwSh.

To me it's sad, because that's the main thing I do with the games, bring the whole collection, admire them, use them in battles, make different teams, see the Pokédex entries, etc. With Let's Go I've literally spent more time just watching the models in the Pokédex and changing the Pokémon that follows me and just running around, or running in the Go Park, than actually playing the game. The storyline you just play it once and you never go back at it again, I don't think I've ever done more than a week to beat a game and I know hardcore players do it so much faster, and at the end what you keep doing after that is just the battling, online most of the cases. I bet there are cities and routes a lot of people never visit again in their lifetimes, so I wouldn't mind if the rest of the game gets short in features or characters, as long as they made all the Pokémon available, with regular battle animations (even if that means Blastoise shooting water from its forehead). But that's me.

I guess I'm just done with trying to find an excuse or explanation for the lack of Pokémon in SwSh. The reasons they gave about the models or the balance, to me are just poor excuses, and I just won't even take them seriously. To me it's more important looking forward, like why do they have to doom the series since now, instead of waiting to see if in the future they maybe have the resources and the expertise, and the time to achieve the feat of including all the Pokémon again.

Click to shrink...

Why do you think it's so pointless? Criticism exists to hold people accountable. Like honestly, it's about time that the fan base became vocal about something like this. It was always frustrating to see how just accept the downgrades that Game Freak put the series through during Gen VI and VII, and now you have the canned quotes about how they pursued quality, when the game frankly, doesn't look like it's up to the quality that it could have been. That's why people are frustrated with the decision to remove accessibility to some legacy Pokemon: because it doesn't appear to come with any upside. Furthermore, this is something that Game Freak built up themselves with years of removing features and content for backwards reasoning.

If anything, you waiting to see if Game Freak will change in the future is pointless. We've already seen that they will not renege from their position. They have come out and said that this is going to be their policy going forward. The Battle Frontier controversy and post-game controversy was pretty minuscule compared to "Dexit" so it's possible that in their minds, they thought that it wasn't worth the energy exerted to change things. The only thing that would spark change (if at all), is if the controversy becomes so big that something has to be changed. Is there a possibility for something like that? Sure, but it's so slim given what we know about GF in Gens VI, VII, and what they've recently said regarding "Dexit."

 

[TyraZaurus]

They're not even close. Gg was, from it's conception, a concerted effort to push women, minorities, lgbtq and otherwise marginalized folks out of the gaming industry. That was the goal. When you compare it to some silly pokemon hashtag you're selling the narrative that gg was something similar and it just became corrupted at some point. And that, is actual misinformation

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I'm not saying its all actually on the level of Gamefreak, but you can't tell me that false rape accusations and harassing someone on their personal or business (read, not just Pokemon) account isn't taking shit from the same thematic playbook.

 

[Omegamon]

I'm not saying its all actually on the level of Gamefreak, but you can't tell me that false rape accusations and harassing someone on their personal or business (read, not just Pokemon) account isn't taking shit from the same thematic playbook.

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Was that person harrased for being a minority? And GG went against smaller devs and journalist not a big director.

 

[NHarmonic.]

Nothing will change if the games keep selling, and they will, so the people doing PR for gamefreak are already winning.

This just proved nothing could make the fanbase react at all in a meaningful way. That's why the games will keep going down in quality.

 

[Horohorohoro]

I'm not saying its all actually on the level of Gamefreak, but you can't tell me that false rape accusations and harassing someone on their personal or business (read, not just Pokemon) account isn't taking shit from the same thematic playbook.

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I want to preface this with the fact that the false accusations were absolutely wrong.
You can't think every single supported that person's actions when it was a single twitter poster making a new account just to post it and them immediately being dismissed by just about everyone. I also don't agree with posting things on the devs' personal twitters, but you're kind of preaching to the choir here. I'm fairly certain nobody arguing on ResetERA has done that at all.

My girlfriend recently was insulted in sexist, body-shaming ways, calling her a land whale and SJW trash and other stuff for saying she didn't like some character designs on Twitter, so I don't want to hear people act like everyone on the defender side is a saint either.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Nothing will change if the games keep selling, and they will, so the people doing PR for gamefreak are already winning.

This just proved nothing could make the fanbase react at all in a meaningful way. That's why the games will keep going down in quality.

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Bingo, therein lies the problem. If people here are just talking shit about the game, not putting their money where their mouth is, and then going off and buying the game despite their complaints, then they are part of the problem too.

 

[Pokemaniac]

They said they aren't reusing assets. It is what it is. The footage while holding my 3DS and looking at the video does looks different to me. You want to cynically assume they are lying that is your right.

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I'm not assuming, I'm basing this off of comparisons like this one from earlier in the thread:

Yep. Same with this Arcanine model, exactly the same as the 3DS one:

They did upscale and edited the textures though. (notice how one of the black stripes is gone in SwSh)

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That is not what a model "remade from scratch" looks like. That is a model with some touched up textures, at best. Until we have a solid example of some actually different geometry, the most likely scenario is that they are, in fact, reusing the 3DS models.

 

[AllChan7]

It's the bed GameFreak has made for the fanbase.

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I haven't seen a fanbase this angry in a long time. Tho I feel like most of the hate was just under the surface before this mess. Now people have a legitimate reason to bash the company for their poor decisions. While some of the criticism is warranted, some of us just want to discuss the game itself. You feel me?

 

[Miller]

I know it's not something anyone controls. But when the nature of the debate here is full of people being called shills or being called out for defending a corporation or all manner of ad hominem or misrepresentations of the other side of the argument, while simultaneously acting like that's the whole of what we have to say or how we're acting, I feel like it's perfectly valid to invoke how the nature of the rhetoric in general is breeding stuff like what I talked about. And even then, there IS leadership in regards to silencing of dissenting opinions; the Pokemon reddit drowns out anyone who isn't part of the negative side of this and the moderation there is complicit in it.

Even here I've seen apologism of some of the not-quite-terrible sides of this. Stuff like "it's just a hashtag" or "just a protest" when it's being spammed to people involved in the franchise on their non-Pokemon related accounts and the way the moderation has just "lazy dev" tier stuff keep going on on this board.

Also, I'm perfectly aware that Joe Merrick and I don't align on all things. That's part of my point. The people angry about this and Joe actually have some views in common! That's what makes the backlash against him all the more damning!

And yes, "Dexit" has been thrown out around a lot here.

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We're not Reddit. I really don't mean to sound like I'm talking down to you when I say this, because I do mean this quite earnestly, but this is a discussion forum. You're here talking to a group of people with only an interest in gaming in common. A lot of people here do not post on Reddit, and we are not beholden to the direction of their discussion. It's silly to even bring that up in this context. And "silencing of dissenting opinions" off-site has no relation whatsoever to frankly fervent moderation here against those using lazy dev rhetoric. There are many, many bans and warnings for just that throughout all of the Pokemon Sword and Shield threads here.

If you want to say "X is happening on Reddit, and the state of discussion throughout social media is Y, and we contribute to the nature of the rhetoric because Z," that's perfectly valid and I'd love to read that hypothetical post. But when you ascribe guilt in some way to those arguing here in good faith (and I'm not saying that everyone is) simply because their opinions might or might not align with someone who falsely accused someone of sexual assault, you're making a very bold statement and I frankly don't yet see the line between the two.

 

[Apa504]

The "its just a billion dollar company" defense is just bs now, the dexit movement is going after anyone who doesnt agree with them.
Joe is suffering harrasment thanks to a youtuber whos videos are shared here and people are calling names on her girlfriend.
The harrasment Masuda suffered and is suffering.
People are already talking about reviewers and how to force them review the game badly..
This is no longer some bad apples, its a large part of the movement.

 

[TyraZaurus]

Was that person harrased for being a minority? And GG went against smaller devs and journalist not a big director.

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I mean, I don't know how much of this is a motivating factor, but Masuda is a Japanese man, so...

I want to preface this with the fact that the false accusations were absolutely wrong.
You can't think every single supported that person's actions when it was a single twitter poster making a new account just to post it and them immediately being dismissed by just about everyone. I also don't agree with posting things on the devs' personal twitters, but you're kind of preaching to the choir here. I'm fairly certain nobody arguing on ResetERA has done that at all.

My girlfriend recently was insulted in sexist, body-shaming ways, calling her a land whale and SJW trash and other stuff for saying she didn't like some character designs on Twitter, so I don't want to hear people act like everyone on the defender side is a saint either.

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People on Era have absolutely condoned the shit being thrown Masuda's way on his twitter with "it's just a protest" and "it's just a hashtag" type justifications. Even when he's responding to people who have nothing to do with it, and are thus being hit with this shit too.

But regardless. As I stated before, the point isn't that people here are accepting or invoking this stuff. It's the way people here constantly downplay or belittle the arguments of people on the other side while also chastising we have nothing to do with for "our" conduct. The only thing I'm saying is that take a look at everything going on on your end of all this before you throw stones at us for shit we can't control.

 

[Horohorohoro]

I'm not assuming, I'm basing this off of comparisons like this one from earlier in the thread:

That is not what a model "remade from scratch" looks like. That is a model with some touched up textures, at best. Until we have a solid example of some actually different geometry, the most likely scenario is that they are, in fact, reusing the 3DS models.

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Yeah, I'm not sure how people can claim that model is made from scratch when Arcanine's actually quite complicated mane is completely identical. There's no way that would happen if they were attempting to copy that model making it from scratch.

 

[Alexhex]

I'm not saying its all actually on the level of Gamefreak, but you can't tell me that false rape accusations and harassing someone on their personal or business (read, not just Pokemon) account isn't taking shit from the same thematic playbook.

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Still no. The playbook of "upset and extremely online fanbase" would be more accurate. It sucks but it's kinda par for the course, it doesn't come close to warranting gg comparisons and it doesn't require some whole meta discussion about non-nuts fans who want to air their grievances

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

I'm not assuming, I'm basing this off of comparisons like this one from earlier in the thread:

That is not what a model "remade from scratch" looks like. That is a model with some touched up textures, at best. Until we have a solid example of some actually different geometry, the most likely scenario is that they are, in fact, reusing the 3DS models.

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Something was probably lost in translation because the issues might have been more to do with bringing the models into a new engine requiring them all to be adjusted more than simply just modifying the textures. For the exact same mesh they would have had to have 1:1 guidelines on how to build them exactly which seems unlikely.

 

[Omegamon]

I mean, I don't know how much of this is a motivating factor, but Masuda is a Japanese man, so...

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He is not being attacked because he is japanese, you really must be privilegied to not get why GG was bad.

 

[TyraZaurus]

Still no. The playbook of "upset and extremely online fanbase" would be more accurate. It sucks but it's kinda par for the course, it doesn't come close to warranting gg comparisons and it doesn't require some whole meta discussion about non-nuts fans who want to air their grievances

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Alright then. I'm sorry the fact that people have invoked comparisons to a specific frothing mass of abusive assholes instead of a more general one.

He is not being attacked because he is japanese, you really must be privilegied to not get why GG was bad.

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I'm sorry, but how dare you?

[EDIT - personal information removed due to advisement]

If you want to accuse me of being insensitive to or so privileged or that I can't be sympathetic, understand, or share things in common with the people who were victims of Gamer Gate, maybe judge that based on shit more than a somewhat poorly thought out comparison.

 

[Xavi]

So, what's Japan reaction to the National Dex stuff? I've been taking a break from Pokémon SwSh threads/news etc,

 

[Apa504]

So, what's Japan reaction to the National Dex stuff? I've been taking a break from Pokémon SwSh threads/news etc,

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We dont know, some are saying they dont care, some are saying they are pissed, etc.
The only thing we know is that preorders started strong.

 

[Horohorohoro]

He is not being attacked because he is japanese, you really must be privilegied to not get why GG was bad.

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I'm not sure what point anyone trying to compare this to a targeted harassment movement are trying to make. This is just fans being upset about something and some of them doing stupid shit.

Alright then. I'm sorry the fact that people have invoked comparisons to a specific frothing mass of abusive assholes instead of a more general one.

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I really don't get why you're trying to spin this like this. It's frankly absurd. I don't know if you just weren't on the internet when GG was a thing or what, but this is an extremely bad take and I don't know why you continue to say it. Not only is it a silly comparison, but it is absolutely downplaying what the people who were targeted by Gamergate went through.

 

[NHarmonic.]

Comparing this to GG is so fucking ridiculous, like it's the lowest argument you could use to defend gamefreak and dismiss any criticism.

 

[Darkline]

You know, on the issue of conduct on all sides of this issue, I don't think that those on the the side of Game Freak have as many instances of things like creating false sexual assault accusations, attacking Joe Merrick for things like simply reporting on an accurate translation, or pushing their goddamn hashtag spam on Masuda when he's interacting with other fans or congratulating people over a marriage. There's more instances of outright misinformation being spread as well.

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You can't just equate people having a civilised discussion with people engaging in harrasment and vile accusations because their
opinions on some aspect of a game line up. The two things have literally nothing to do with one another, making out
like the people on one 'side' of an argument are somehow responsible for the shit behavior of others is absolutely outrageous.
That goes for whichever point being argued.

 

[Miller]

.

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I don't know you, you don't know me, but I'm saying this as a friend: You should probably edit the personal details out of that and take a breather. You don't need to prove yourself to anyone. Go grab a snack or a drink or something. Go watch some TV.