New Pokémon Sword & Shield Trailer (Gigantamaxing, new pokémon, version exclusive gym leaders and Pokémon)

[RochHoch]

You can't say they are incompetent if you don't have the knowledge of their situation, how it was handled and what is the standard. Incompetence means they did a bad job but the circumstances can been way more difficult than what you imagine since you have no freacking clue about what those were or how those things happen and so maybe they did a pretty good job with a task that was way harder than you imagine.

you can have 2 different chairs and one looks pretty good and another one a bit rough, and think the second one is out of incompetence but maybe the wood was different, the time they had, the tools they had aviable etc. And so while is fair to say a is a better product than b, saying that whoever made b is incompetent without having any knowledge about how chairs are made is just ridiculous.

Click to shrink...

These games are from like the biggest media franchise ever.

The fact they they either (A) were unable to reuse all of the same models that they've been using for years for some reason, or (B) decided to remake the models that they're using from scratch but deliberately only made them identical to 3DS-quality in a Switch game is pathetic no matter how you look at it.

 

[TimeFire]

To be fair, Let's Go had all the Pokémon coded in as well, just not the textures/images

Click to shrink...

Let's hope that, for the sake of sanity in future discussions, that doesn't happen again :p

 

[Deleted member 2618]

You can't say they are incompetent if you don't have the knowledge of their situation, how it was handled and what is the standard. Incompetence means they did a bad job but the circumstances can been way more difficult than what you imagine since you have no freacking clue about what those were or how those things happen and so maybe they did a pretty good job with a task that was way harder than you imagine.

you can have 2 different chairs and one looks pretty good and another one a bit rough, and think the second one is out of incompetence but maybe the wood was different, the time they had, the tools they had aviable etc. And so while is fair to say a is a better product than b, saying that whoever made b is incompetent without having any knowledge about how chairs are made is just ridiculous.

Click to shrink...

Yknow I like the chair analogy.

Know what wood to use. Why did they choose to use this proprietary engine that doesnt accept the old models? If I make a chair designed to maintain a certain weight and it breaks because the stress across all 4 legs was too high compared to one that works, yeah I suck as a chair maker. Maybe mine did use worse material. Maybe I used 6061-O (heat treated) aluminum instead of 1045 carbon steel. Why did I choose to use that material instead of the steel? I should probably know the difference.

 

[XaviConcept]

Problem is, a lot of people are already calling them liars and using eye tests as proof. People are desperate for any explanation as to why the National Dex is missing in SwSh which has led misinformation being spread like wildfire. I can't wait until this has all passed tbh because it just feels exhausting at this point

Click to shrink...

Thats unavoidable in this day and age. Fans always come up with wild theories, spread them as facts and then build more theories atop further speculation. The game I work on has a reddit page ripe with that kind of stuff, as a developer you just take it as the price of doing business at this level.

 

[Serebii]

I don't think it had models or audio data either

Click to shrink...

Correct, no models. Apologies, thought I included that

 

[Zelretch]

If they can't bring over their models that were created specifically for this purpose to the new engine easily, then either the people who designed them or the team who made the new engine is incompetent

and when apparently forced to create new models, they recreated them exactly the same with the same bland movements

Click to shrink...

You can futureproof all you want but to think that in the space of technology you can plan perfectly + 5 years and have absolutely no problems with that is delusional at best. You can try to futureproof to best of your ability but without knowing the specifications of something (in this case console and engine) that is not even out yet and you can only try to predict is incredible hard and eventually there will be something that breaks it all. And in case of game engines that is further accentuated since they can be VERY tricky and annoying to deal with. Of course if you have no idea how a game engine works or how the process of getting assets from one to another usually goes you are likely to think that you hit a button and everything is fine. But as you can read from the tone of the sentence that is not how it works. Every engine is its world and things break pretty easily (we even got a professional with actual experience in the industry saying exactly that but you refuse to understand). Granted, im just a game design student and haven't actually work in a complete videogame yet, but in all my projects so far there has been a lot of problems getting assets from one project to another IN THE SAME ENGINE, i can't imagine in different ones. That is why i think if you have no idea how those work you have absolutely 0 authority to call incompetent people that do.

Breh, you don't need to be a world-class chef to tell somebody they suck at cooking.

Click to shrink...

the best chef in the world would have trouble making good dishes if the oven started to act weird, their tools were bad or the food was handled to them badly.
furthermore you probably have way more notions of cooking than game development. You have no idea how tricky game engines can be and all the problems that can arise.

 

[Gold Arsene]

You can futureproof all you want but to think that in the space of technology you can plan perfectly + 5 years and have absolutely no problems with that is delusional at best. You can try to futureproof to best of your ability but without knowing the specifications of something (in this case console and engine) that is not even out yet and you can only try to predict is incredible hard and eventually there will be something that breaks it all. And in case of game engines that is further accentuated since they can be VERY tricky and annoying to deal with. Of course if you have no idea how a game engine works or how the process of getting assets from one to another usually goes you are likely to think that you hit a button and everything is fine. But as you can read from the tone of the sentence that is not how it works. Every engine is its world and things break pretty easily (we even got a professional with actual experience in the industry saying exactly that but you refuse to understand). Granted, im just a game design student and haven't actually work in a complete videogame yet, but in all my projects so far there has been a lot of problems getting assets from one project to another IN THE SAME ENGINE, i can't imagine in different ones. That is why i think if you have no idea how those work you have absolutely 0 authority to call incompetent people that do.



the best chef in the world would have trouble making good dishes if the oven started to act weird, their tools were bad or the food was handled to them badly.
furthermore you probably have way more notions of cooking than game development. You have no idea how tricky game engines can be and all the problems that can arise.

Click to shrink...

So we can't say we're unhappy with the game at all? Just take what they give you?

 

[Deleted member 176]

You can futureproof all you want but to think that in the space of technology you can plan perfectly + 5 years and have absolutely no problems with that is delusional at best. You can try to futureproof to best of your ability but without knowing the specifications of something (in this case console and engine) that is not even out yet and you can only try to predict is incredible hard and eventually there will be something that breaks it all. And in case of game engines that is further accentuated since they can be VERY tricky and annoying to deal with. Of course if you have no idea how a game engine works or how the process of getting assets from one to another usually goes you are likely to think that you hit a button and everything is fine. But as you can read from the tone of the sentence that is not how it works. Every engine is its world and things break pretty easily (we even got a professional with actual experience in the industry saying exactly that but you refuse to understand). Granted, im just a game design student and haven't actually work in a complete videogame yet, but in all my projects so far there has been a lot of problems getting assets from one project to another IN THE SAME ENGINE, i can't imagine in different ones. That is why i think if you have no idea how those work you have absolutely 0 authority to call incompetent people that do.



the best chef in the world would have trouble making good dishes if the oven started to act weird, their tools were bad or the food was handled to them badly.
furthermore you probably have way more notions of cooking than game development. You have no idea how tricky game engines can be and all the problems that can arise.

Click to shrink...

then they should have hired more people when the problems became apparent. this would be nothing but a failure.

if anything once it was clear the future proofing failed, they could have taken the opportunity to make everything look much better.

 

[Serebii]

Thats unavoidable in this day and age. Fans always come up with wild theories, spread them as facts and then build more theories atop further speculation. The game I work on has a reddit page ripe with that kind of stuff, as a developer you just take it as the price of doing business at this level.

Click to shrink...

Problem is when people start harassing individual developers on social media continually. Practically every English response to Masuda's tweets and official tweets is it. Even the Japanese official accounts are getting it (but just in English really). Polls held in communities in Japan are mostly "This really sucks but I get it" as the majorit response

 

[Sou Da]

.

Click to shrink...

It's time to posting my guy, this ain't gonna lead anywhere good.

 

[Serebii]

then they should have hired more people when the problems became apparent. this would be nothing but a failure.

if anything once it was clear the future proofing failed, they could have taken the opportunity to make everything look much better.

Click to shrink...

You can't just magic staff to appear though. When you want staff, they don't just suddenly appear in the job market. Plus it takes time to acclimatise people to the workplace. People really don't get how this industry works.

 

[Deleted member 176]

You can't just magic staff to appear though. When you want staff, they don't just suddenly appear in the job market. Plus it takes time to acclimatise people to the workplace. People really don't get how this industry works.

Click to shrink...

It's Pokémon

 

[TimeFire]

It's Pokémon

Click to shrink...

They can't catch staff, dude

Most probably this entire thing went wrong before it even began. That's when they should have called more people, trained them etc. It's clear a big HD adventure was too much for their staff to do everything they wanted to.

 

[Deleted member 176]

They can't catch staff, dude

Most probably this entire thing went wrong before it even began. That's when they should have called more people

Click to shrink...

yeah, it should have been avoided a long time ago. but it's not like Nintendo has never outsourced before, and it's not like they don't have the money to spend on the first Pokemon game for the Switch.

 

[Miller]

You can't just magic staff to appear though. When you want staff, they don't just suddenly appear in the job market. Plus it takes time to acclimatise people to the workplace. People really don't get how this industry works.

Click to shrink...

With how many studios have shuttered in the past decade and continue to, it might be wise for Game Freak to acquire a new studio, and restructure it into sort of a Monolithsoft Kyoto operation wherein they handle support for other titles.

But I understand they enjoy their autonomy and probably worry about losing their identity in the process of expansion. So I don't know where we go from here, really.

 

[Gold Arsene]

Hey you know what the Zelda team did?

They got help, and what you know I'd say it turned out pretty good.

Three Houses is looking to be well received too.

 

[Zelretch]

Yknow I like the chair analogy.

Know what wood to use. Why did they choose to use this proprietary engine that doesnt accept the old models? If I make a chair designed to maintain a certain weight and it breaks because the stress across all 4 legs was too high compared to one that works, yeah I suck as a chair maker. Maybe mine did use worse material. Maybe I used 6061-O (heat treated) aluminum instead of 1045 carbon steel. Why did I choose to use that material instead of the steel? I should probably know the difference.

Click to shrink...

Of course the chair analogy has holes because making a chair is not even 1/100000 as complicated as game engines and making a videogame. But anyway, maybe they had not options to choose and so they ahd to do the chairs to the best of their abilities with what they had (and by rough i didn't mean non functional).

To respond about the engine question. There are hundreds of reasons why they needed to use a different engine or even the same but highly modified because the old one was not able to provide certain features they needed for this game. So they decide to update the game engine to one that allow all those features and gives them more to work with, but then you are porting between engines and in every transition between engines there is very likely to appear problems, because basically a different engine or a very updated one can have a way to understand comands and assets differently (and sometimes that is needed for those features) so that means incompatibility with some assets and different engine errors than you can try to fix one by one or maybe you just redo the work with the way the new engine processes them in mind.

That is extremly surface level and it doesn't tap into the complexity that game engines and programing are and how development goes (im not an expert of it either) and is for that reason that assume they are incompetent without knowing how it works is out ouf your authority if you have no knowledge about how this things go. Like, i and any other person with knowledge of game development would be way WAY more surprised that the transition was perfectly smooth and easy than the current situation because not even in very tested studios stuff like this goes smooth almost ever.

 

[RochHoch]

They considered cutting the dex for Sun and Moon, but then apparently made no effort to try and prevent it from happening in the future? Like, what the hell?

They've had years since then to come up with a solution, and yet have nothing to show for it. Pokemon deserves far, far, better than this.

 

[MegaXZero]

Hey you know what the Zelda team did?

They got help, and what you know I'd say it turned out pretty good.

Three Houses is looking to be well received too.

Click to shrink...

Both were delayed. And I love the revisionist history with three houses where for months people shat all over it's graphics and setting.

They've had years since then to come up with a solution, and yet have nothing to show for it. Pokemon deserves far, far, better than this.

Click to shrink...

Certainly deserves better than a toxic fanbase who unironically say this.

 

[MangoUltz]

Just going through the pokemon confirmed for this so far, we got a lot of dragons in.

 

[Gold Arsene]

Both were delayed. And I love the revisionist history with three houses where for months people shat all over it's graphics and setting.

Click to shrink...

Do I really gotta pull out the Miyamoto quote?


And where did I mention graphics in regards to either?

 

[Zelretch]

So we can't say we're unhappy with the game at all? Just take what they give you?

Click to shrink...

can you quote the exact moment when i said "you can't be unhappy with the game at all"????? I only said people that doesn't know about game development and game engines have no authority to call Gamefreak incompetents.

You can say the game doesn't look good to you, you can say x mechanic doesn't interest you, you can say you expected more (tho thats more on you) but calling them incompetent (in the context of the assets) means that they have managed that badly but you can't have authority to say something like that if you don't know how that works and what good or bad handling of the situation is. Judging incompetence only based on the result ignores a lot of context behind the process and in the world of videogames that context tends to be extremly huge because of all the pieces that have to work together in the making of a videogame.

 

[Horohorohoro]

Both were delayed. And I love the revisionist history with three houses where for months people shat all over it's graphics and setting.

Click to shrink...

People did lmao, I have no idea how you can say they didn't.

 

[MegaXZero]

Do I really gotta pull out the Miyamoto quote?


And where did I mention graphics in regards to either?

Click to shrink...

Delaying isn't an option for Pokémon. (Edit: little passive aggression removed)

"Three houses is looking to be well received"
After months of people shitting on the graphics, setting, also the advertising.

 

[Gold Arsene]

"Three houses is looking to be well received"
After months of people shitting on the graphics, setting, also the advertising.

Click to shrink...

Ok? Why does this matter?

Delaying isn't an option for Pokémon. But I'm sure you didn't realize that.

Click to shrink...

Nice passive aggression.

If it's not an option then maybe they need to rethink there business strategy.

 

[RochHoch]

Both were delayed. And I love the revisionist history with three houses where for months people shat all over it's graphics and setting.

Certainly deserves better than a toxic fanbase who unironically say this.

Click to shrink...

And there it is again: we're not allowed to criticize Game Freak's decisions or want anything better than what they give us, apparently.

 

[XaviConcept]

Problem is when people start harassing individual developers on social media continually. Practically every English response to Masuda's tweets and official tweets is it. Even the Japanese official accounts are getting it (but just in English really). Polls held in communities in Japan are mostly "This really sucks but I get it" as the majorit response

Click to shrink...

Oh you dont have to tell me, I see what our Producers go through, Star Wars fans are -into it- to say the least

 

[Hucast]

At the end of the day when the game comes out and it ends up being an amazing experience, all this arguing will have been for nothing, unless the game sells badly, but uhh i'm sure everyone's gonna buy it anyway

 

[AzureFlame]

At the end of the day when the game comes out and it ends up being an amazing experience, all this arguing will have been for nothing, unless the game sells badly, but uhh i'm sure everyone's gonna buy it anyway

Click to shrink...

I haven't had an "amazing experience" since Gen 5.

 

[Hercule]

Problem is when people start harassing individual developers on social media continually. Practically every English response to Masuda's tweets and official tweets is it. Even the Japanese official accounts are getting it (but just in English really). Polls held in communities in Japan are mostly "This really sucks but I get it" as the majorit response

Click to shrink...

People also wrote the Japanese fans were looking forward to Lets Go. The only people complaining were the western fans. That certainly didn't turned out to be true.

 

[MegaXZero]

And there it is again: we're not allowed to criticize Game Freak's decisions or want anything better than what they give us, apparently.

Click to shrink...

Oh please, you can criticize them cutting the Dex and other decisions as much as you want, but saying Pokémon deserves better than gamefreak isn't criticism, it's just toxic crud thrown at the devs. It minimizes the work they put into this series.

Ok? Why does this matter?

Nice passive aggression.

If it's not an option then maybe they need to rethink there business strategy.

Click to shrink...

Pokémon is a children's media franchise with anime, cards, merch, and games. It will never be just a video game they can indefinitely delay. It didn't work out for Yokai Watch 4.

Although you are write about the passive aggression. Sorry bout that.

 

[Hucast]

I haven't had an "amazing experience" since Gen 5.

Click to shrink...

Maybe this'll be the one eh. Maybe it's got the best world progression and gameplay. That's what matters to me honestly. If it actually succeeds as a solid JRPG. If you ask me that part has only been done well in RB, SG and B&W. The rest has been meh.

 

[Gold Arsene]

At the end of the day when the game comes out and it ends up being an amazing experience, all this arguing will have been for nothing, unless the game sells badly, but uhh i'm sure everyone's gonna buy it anyway

Click to shrink...

This is what I hate the most honestly.

Who cares how "meh" the game looks or the Pokemon who get Thanos'd. It's gonna sell great so why should they listen to anything people say?

It doesn't matter what complaints people have it'll sell so none of it matters.

 

[Bardoon]

Just going through the pokemon confirmed for this so far, we got a lot of dragons in.

Click to shrink...

I'm surprised we haven't seen Garchomp yet. I'm hoping Dragalge makes the cut.

 

[AzureFlame]

Maybe this'll be the one eh. Maybe it's got the best world progression and gameplay. That's what matters to me honestly. If it actually succeeds as a solid JRPG. If you ask me that part has only been done well in RB, SG and B&W. The rest has been meh.

Click to shrink...

I really hope so.

 

[King Alamat]

Maybe this'll be the one eh. Maybe it's got the best world progression and gameplay. That's what matters to me honestly. If it actually succeeds as a solid JRPG. If you ask me that part has only been done well in RB, SG and B&W. The rest has been meh.

Click to shrink...

Even by your own standard, Game Freak's batting average doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

 

[Omegamon]

When DP got delayed, the anime added another arc with, they also have rushed some BW and XY arcs and stuff like Orange Islands was filler between games. I don't think they will ever do stuff like Level 5 does where they air anime before the games come out like YK Shadowside or IE Ares. So at least the anime can handle delays.

 

[Reinhardt Schneider]

Maybe this'll be the one eh. Maybe it's got the best world progression and gameplay. That's what matters to me honestly. If it actually succeeds as a solid JRPG. If you ask me that part has only been done well in RB, SG and B&W. The rest has been meh.

Click to shrink...

Pokémon games aren't solid jrpg experiences, they are pokémon games, and have their own defining qualities

 

[RochHoch]

Oh please, you can criticize them cutting the Dex and other decisions as much as you want, but saying Pokémon deserves better than gamefreak isn't criticism, it's just toxic crud thrown at the devs. It minimizes the work they put into this series.

Click to shrink...

How is that not criticism?

Gamefreak is clearly working very hard on these games, but that's obviously not enough at this point. Nothing was seemingly done to fix this, and the games are extremely disappointing as a result. A franchise as massive as Pokemon deserves to have games that are better than this, and my criticism is that they should have planned ahead better so that the games would turn out more satisfactory in the end.

 

[Hucast]

Pokémon games aren't solid jrpg experiences, they are pokémon games, and have their own defining qualities

Click to shrink...

I feel like I really loved progressing through the worlds in a couple of them. I forgot another thing in my list. PVE Game balance. Hopefully it's challenging because I hate how mindless it has been since... red and blue? I play without exp share in most of the games but it sucks having to handicap myself. I feel like these are the actual things Gamefreak should be putting their attention towards. Pokemon is a simple jrpg with 4 moves to focus on. It wouldn't be an issue to ramp up the difficulty a little bit

 

[AlexFlame116]

Lots of people hated it but I loved the cutscenes in Sun and Moon. I just wish that there was a skip button for those who wanted to go right to the game.

 

[Pokemaniac]

All this talk of Game Freak potentially using a new engine is going to be really funny when the game is datamined and it still has every single key item all the way back to Gen 3.

Like, it's been a looooooong time since they actually rewrote things from scratch, and we've already seen evidence from the E3 impressions that some of the weird battle menu quirks from the 3DS games are still there.

 

[ffdgh]

I feel like I really loved progressing through the worlds in a couple of them. I forgot another thing in my list. PVE Game balance. Hopefully it's challenging because I hate how mindless it has been since... red and blue? I play without exp share in most of the games but it sucks having to handicap myself. I feel like these are the actual things Gamefreak should be putting their attention towards. Pokemon is a simple jrpg with 4 moves to focus on. It wouldn't be an issue to ramp up the difficulty a little bit

Click to shrink...

They introduced difficulty levels in bw2. It wasn't the best due to the whole key weirdness but the effort was appreciated. Too bad they dropped it completely afterward instead of improving it...

 

[TimeFire]

All this talk of Game Freak potentially using a new engine is going to be really funny when the game is datamined and it still has every single key item all the way back to Gen 3.

Like, it's been a looooooong time since they actually rewrote things from scratch, and we've already seen evidence from the E3 impressions that some of the weird battle menu quirks from the 3DS games are still there.

Click to shrink...

I don't know if finding out that Sword/Shield is running on a heavily modified GBA engine is funny or tragic tbh

 

[Deleted member 35077]

If they are redoing pokemon models, I really wish they reconsider the default battle animation for many flying pokemon. Sky battles were a mistake, and because of it we have been stuck with the stupid gliding animation on too many pokemon.

 

[ILikeFeet]

All this talk of Game Freak potentially using a new engine is going to be really funny when the game is datamined and it still has every single key item all the way back to Gen 3.

Like, it's been a looooooong time since they actually rewrote things from scratch, and we've already seen evidence from the E3 impressions that some of the weird battle menu quirks from the 3DS games are still there.

Click to shrink...

I always believed GF was one of those companies that shouldn't be making their own tools. even if it meant rewriting how the pokemon library was setup, it probably would have been justified going forward. would allow them to fix things as well

I don't know if finding out that Sword/Shield is running on a heavily modified GBA engine is funny or tragic tbh

Click to shrink...

I'm not certain it is. if so, it's a Theseus Ship thing

 

[MegaXZero]

How is that not criticism?

Gamefreak is clearly working very hard on these games, but that's obviously not enough at this point. Nothing was seemingly done to fix this, and the games are extremely disappointing as a result. A franchise as massive as Pokemon deserves to have games that are better than this, and my criticism is that they should have planned ahead better so that the games would turn out more satisfactory in the end.

Click to shrink...

The games aren't even out yet, so I'm curious how you can say these are bad games. Unless you just mean in general, but that goes back to my first point where it sounds like you just want gamefreak out.

 

[RochHoch]

The games aren't even out yet, so I'm curious how you can say these are bad games. Unless you just mean in general, but that goes back to my first point where it sounds like you just want gamefreak out.

Click to shrink...

Shitty animations
Dexit
Post game is likely to be non-existsnt if the 3DS games are any indication.

I dont want Gamefreak out, I want them to get their shit together. Improve the games by outsourcing extra help like the Zelda team and Intelligent Systems have been, or promise that the complete dex will be in future games like everyone wants. Thats all.

 

[Reinhardt Schneider]

I feel like I really loved progressing through the worlds in a couple of them. I forgot another thing in my list. PVE Game balance. Hopefully it's challenging because I hate how mindless it has been since... red and blue? I play without exp share in most of the games but it sucks having to handicap myself. I feel like these are the actual things Gamefreak should be putting their attention towards. Pokemon is a simple jrpg with 4 moves to focus on. It wouldn't be an issue to ramp up the difficulty a little bit

Click to shrink...

Uuuuh no, pokémon is not a simple rpg with 4 moves and well, part of what defines pokémon is the fact that every single person has a different idea of what defines it.

Here we have the perfect example. You do like the progression through the game world right? For me that's barely important, when it comes to pokémon my mind goes to the breeding, battling and training, along with the multiplayer aspect of course.

By the way, UltraSun/UltraMoon is quite challenging, leaving Let's Go aside Gen 7 saw an increase of difficulty, so I would bet SwSh will be pretty good in that regard.

As for me, I'm going to greatly enjoy the online component. The Ycomm being an evolution of the PSS is rad

 

[ILikeFeet]

Improve the games by outsourcing extra help like the Zelda team and Intelligent Systems have been

Click to shrink...

They have. Like 10 companies have their hands in Sun and Moon