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LossAversion

The Merchant of ERA
Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,714
Love how it's "embarrassing" to dislike the change. Or it's just an overreaction. Or maybe... you know... it's just a different opinion? So many high horses around here.

I don't like the change for numerous reasons. Yes, I think the new face looks too young. The old face felt like it was a better match for a Peter that was out of college and working. It reminded me of Peter in the 90's animated show and I've always liked a more mature Peter like that one. I don't dislike a young Peter but it was a refreshing change of pace to get an older looking Peter again. I don't care how old the actors are in real life. This new face gives Peter the feeling that he's Miles' peer, not his mentor. I also think the old model matched Yuri's voice much better even if the "bones" didn't match as well.

I don't like recasts in general when they can be avoided. Movies, games, etc. It is always jarring and disappointing to have a beloved character get recast. Yes, Yuri is the one providing the performance... that doesn't make it any less jarring visually though. It honestly makes it more jarring. If this doesn't bother you, then cool. I'm happy for you. No sarcasm.

And yeah, this new face model does look far too similar to Tom Holland. Coincidence or not, I don't like it. It gives Peter the same "knock off MCU" look that the cast of the Avengers game had. And while Tom Holland might not be a teenager in real life, his image is synonymous with a high school Peter Parker. Which doesn't help with the "looks too young" issue.

One of the biggest worries I had with this remaster was how jarring these dramatic scenes toward the end of the game would feel with this change. And they're even worse than I anticipated. Feel free to disagree or call the old performance cartoonish or whatever. That's opinions for you.

It's some combination of all of these issues that lead me to dislike the change. Sorry for caring about something that you don't find to be a big deal. I hope it's okay if I share my opinion though. I know they aren't going to go back on this change. No, it's not going to prevent me from playing future games. Yeah, I probably will get used to the new face after a while. I don't think this is the end of the world. Doesn't mean I can't talk about the change. Even if it's just an embarrassing overreaction.
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,812
old one looks like a 38 year old father of 3, not peter parker. the emotions on the old face are MUCH better articulated though

new face is still better overall, but this is definitely a problem.
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,605
I don't doubt their reasons for changing the face, but I do think the previous face had more character.

Maybe they should ask Ben Jordan to skip a day of sleep before the Spider-Man 2 photoscan, because PS4 Pete looked like an overworked guy leading a double life. From his eyes he looked tired, there's a baked-in weariness that has been lost.
 

ShaggsMagoo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,676
The new face looks bad, as I have said all along. The mocap needs to better match the VA's face makes no sense either. And has never come up before that I can remember in any other project.
 

Astral

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
28,115
As explained multiple times by devs here, on Twitter, on blog posts and interviews:

The face was changed because the old face, as it was created bone structure wise, didn't fit with the motion capture Yuri did. They had to manually fix many of the animations. By choosing a new face that is more similar to Yuri's "bones", let's say, they have been able to direct translate the motion capture Yuri did back then, without touching anything.

And it's also to prepare for next sequels, it will make their life easier.
Oh that's interesting. Makes sense. I never thought about a face model's bone structure being important in motion capture.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,689
There was a Xenoblade tweet that tried to claim the same thing and I'm pretty sure in reality they chose completdlg different frames and ignored the better animation work. We'll see
 

Darrilium

Member
Jan 3, 2020
450
As explained multiple times by devs here, on Twitter, on blog posts and interviews:

The face was changed because the old face, as it was created bone structure wise, didn't fit with the motion capture Yuri did. They had to manually fix many of the animations. By choosing a new face that is more similar to Yuri's "bones", let's say, they have been able to direct translate the motion capture Yuri did back then, without touching anything.

And it's also to prepare for next sequels, it will make their life easier.
So you're saying they used 2 mo-caps actors for the character? Just WHY? Just take Yuri's mo-cap.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,299
old one looks like a 38 year old father of 3, not peter parker.

Posts like these make me incredibly self-conscious about how old I look. Apparently if you don't look as young as Remastered Peter Parker then you're literally 20 years older than you actually are to some people :(

I guess it does explain why I can count on two hands the amount of times I've been ID'ed for alcohol in the past few years.
 

Patitoloco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,705
So you're saying they used 2 mo-caps actors for the character? Just WHY? Just take Yuri's mo-cap.
No, they had one mocap: Yuri's.
And they had one scanned face where they applied that mocap: John Bubniak. It didn't work nice with the mocap info.
They changed the scanned face for Ben Jordan's. It works better with the mocap.

That's it. This is how 99% of the games work, no mystery or weird solution or conspiracy.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,331
Love how it's "embarrassing" to dislike the change. Or it's just an overreaction. Or maybe... you know... it's just a different opinion? So many high horses around here.

I don't like the change for numerous reasons. Yes, I think the new face looks too young. The old face felt like it was a better match for a Peter that was out of college and working. It reminded me of Peter in the 90's animated show and I've always liked a more mature Peter like that one. I don't dislike a young Peter but it was a refreshing change of pace to get an older looking Peter again. I don't care how old the actors are in real life. This new face gives Peter the feeling that he's Miles' peer, not his mentor. I also think the old model matched Yuri's voice much better even if the "bones" didn't match as well.

I don't like recasts in general when they can be avoided. Movies, games, etc. It is always jarring and disappointing to have a beloved character get recast. Yes, Yuri is the one providing the performance... that doesn't make it any less jarring visually though. It honestly makes it more jarring. If this doesn't bother you, then cool. I'm happy for you. No sarcasm.

And yeah, this new face model does look far too similar to Tom Holland. Coincidence or not, I don't like it. It gives Peter the same "knock off MCU" look that the cast of the Avengers game had. And while Tom Holland might not be a teenager in real life, his image is synonymous with a high school Peter Parker. Which doesn't help with the "looks too young" issue.

One of the biggest worries I had with this remaster was how jarring these dramatic scenes toward the end of the game would feel with this change. And they're even worse than I anticipated. Feel free to disagree or call the old performance cartoonish or whatever. That's opinions for you.

It's some combination of all of these issues that lead me to dislike the change. Sorry for caring about something that you don't find to be a big deal. I hope it's okay if I share my opinion though. I know they aren't going to go back on this change. No, it's not going to prevent me from playing future games. Yeah, I probably will get used to the new face after a while. I don't think this is the end of the world. Doesn't mean I can't talk about the change. Even if it's just an embarrassing overreaction.
Well said
 

Solaire

Member
Oct 29, 2017
899


Here's a video showing how good and realistic the new face can be.

Man the faces in this game give me some MoH: Warfighter uncanny valley vibes. It bothers me.

medal_of_honor_uncanny_by_digi_matrix-dbiokcc.gif
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
Love how it's "embarrassing" to dislike the change. Or it's just an overreaction. Or maybe... you know... it's just a different opinion? So many high horses around here.

I don't like the change for numerous reasons. Yes, I think the new face looks too young. The old face felt like it was a better match for a Peter that was out of college and working. It reminded me of Peter in the 90's animated show and I've always liked a more mature Peter like that one. I don't dislike a young Peter but it was a refreshing change of pace to get an older looking Peter again. I don't care how old the actors are in real life. This new face gives Peter the feeling that he's Miles' peer, not his mentor. I also think the old model matched Yuri's voice much better even if the "bones" didn't match as well.

I don't like recasts in general when they can be avoided. Movies, games, etc. It is always jarring and disappointing to have a beloved character get recast. Yes, Yuri is the one providing the performance... that doesn't make it any less jarring visually though. It honestly makes it more jarring. If this doesn't bother you, then cool. I'm happy for you. No sarcasm.

And yeah, this new face model does look far too similar to Tom Holland. Coincidence or not, I don't like it. It gives Peter the same "knock off MCU" look that the cast of the Avengers game had. And while Tom Holland might not be a teenager in real life, his image is synonymous with a high school Peter Parker. Which doesn't help with the "looks too young" issue.

One of the biggest worries I had with this remaster was how jarring these dramatic scenes toward the end of the game would feel with this change. And they're even worse than I anticipated. Feel free to disagree or call the old performance cartoonish or whatever. That's opinions for you.

It's some combination of all of these issues that lead me to dislike the change. Sorry for caring about something that you don't find to be a big deal. I hope it's okay if I share my opinion though. I know they aren't going to go back on this change. No, it's not going to prevent me from playing future games. Yeah, I probably will get used to the new face after a while. I don't think this is the end of the world. Doesn't mean I can't talk about the change. Even if it's just an embarrassing overreaction.


Thank you.

If you don't like the new face, it's the new "puddle gate".
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,383
Why are we comparing high quality images with off-screen photos with bad calibration?
I still prefer the new face and he should look even better in the sequel if not already in Miles' game.
 
Last edited:

CaptainKashup

Banned
May 10, 2018
8,313
By the way, for the people who believes that the new Peter Parker doesn't look tired enough.
2020-11-13_14_01_41-Incrustation_video.png

2020-11-13_14_02_31-Incrustation_video.png


These aren't the eyes nor the face of a man who's not tired.
The difference is that his eyebags are not over-the-top.

Here's what the old one looked like in the same last frame.
2020-11-13_14_06_33-Window.png
 

crimsonECHIDNA

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,433
Florida
Love how it's "embarrassing" to dislike the change. Or it's just an overreaction. Or maybe... you know... it's just a different opinion? So many high horses around here.

I don't like the change for numerous reasons. Yes, I think the new face looks too young. The old face felt like it was a better match for a Peter that was out of college and working. It reminded me of Peter in the 90's animated show and I've always liked a more mature Peter like that one. I don't dislike a young Peter but it was a refreshing change of pace to get an older looking Peter again. I don't care how old the actors are in real life. This new face gives Peter the feeling that he's Miles' peer, not his mentor. I also think the old model matched Yuri's voice much better even if the "bones" didn't match as well.

I don't like recasts in general when they can be avoided. Movies, games, etc. It is always jarring and disappointing to have a beloved character get recast. Yes, Yuri is the one providing the performance... that doesn't make it any less jarring visually though. It honestly makes it more jarring. If this doesn't bother you, then cool. I'm happy for you. No sarcasm.

And yeah, this new face model does look far too similar to Tom Holland. Coincidence or not, I don't like it. It gives Peter the same "knock off MCU" look that the cast of the Avengers game had. And while Tom Holland might not be a teenager in real life, his image is synonymous with a high school Peter Parker. Which doesn't help with the "looks too young" issue.

One of the biggest worries I had with this remaster was how jarring these dramatic scenes toward the end of the game would feel with this change. And they're even worse than I anticipated. Feel free to disagree or call the old performance cartoonish or whatever. That's opinions for you.

It's some combination of all of these issues that lead me to dislike the change. Sorry for caring about something that you don't find to be a big deal. I hope it's okay if I share my opinion though. I know they aren't going to go back on this change. No, it's not going to prevent me from playing future games. Yeah, I probably will get used to the new face after a while. I don't think this is the end of the world. Doesn't mean I can't talk about the change. Even if it's just an embarrassing overreaction.

Because for every legitimate complaint you got 10 more crying about the face model resembling Tom Holland, or giving all the credit Yuri Lowental did for both the Voice Acting and Motion Capture to John Bubniak, or passing judgement based on crappy screen renders like the OP of this thread has based it on.

Yeah there's legitimate criticisms to have at the game but when the grand majority of it is based on bullshit it's going to get treated like every other "gaming controversy."
 

Deleted member 1003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,638
Meh. I'm used to it now. Especially seeing clips of MM and Peter in the new game. Definitely is one of more stranger decisions to make for a remaster.
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,707
The old face is better. I'll be sticking to my last gen version. Saves me some money.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,367
I'm still completely half and half on this.

I think the new Peter looks tons better in terms of graphical quality and actually looking like a real human. Old Peter still looks like a CGI young Alan Partrdge.

But there's no denying that the performance/emotion in some of these clips is lesser than the original.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,383
Sony's Craig moment. It's really weird to me that they put so much effort into remastering the game but then made Peter look so ... off.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,800
Looks fine to me. If they can patch in the PS4 save data that people were asking for, I'm sure they can add a legacy option in the remaster to use the old model if it's what people want.
 

Scuttlefluff

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,383
Love Insomniac but I just don't buy the reasoning for the face change. Somewhere there's an email from Sony saying "plz make him look like Tom Holland, it's important for the unifying of our brand identity".
 

Camwi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,375
Doesn't really look bad to me, though they still were stupid to change the actors.
 

dusan

Member
Aug 2, 2020
5,412
I still don't understand why they did this. It's so horrible that even the proportions of his head and his body are not match. Even the tone of voice does not match.
 

mordecaii83

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,862
As many people have already pointed out, the screens in the OP are super low quality and not at all representative of the quality I've seen in the game. The new face is noticeably more expressive and natural looking, so even if it was a miss in one or two scenes I wouldn't care because it's so much better in the rest.
I still don't understand why they did this. It's so horrible that even the proportions of his head and his body are not match. Even the tone of voice does not match.
It's funny you say this because they changed the model due to it being a closer match looks-wise to the actual voice actor in real life.
 

Plasma

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,640
I didn't like the new face at first but watching some of the videos of the custscenes it's starting to grow on me.
 

Khasim

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,260
I really, REALLY hated the change at the beginning, but I'm getting used to it. If I manage to snag a PS5 next week when it launches here, I'm gonna play through SMR before starting Miles just to get accustomed. The technological improvement is definitely worth the trouble of getting accustomed to a new face - Insomniac even confirmed here on Era that they didn't do any additional work on the animations in Remastered, just used the same data on the new face. If changing the face was required for such an improvement, then I can accept that. I wish they knew that before they cast John Bubniak though. I also wish the new model didn't look so much like Tom Holland.
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,605
By the way, for the people who believes that the new Peter Parker doesn't look tired enough.

2020-11-13_14_02_31-Incrustation_video.png


These aren't the eyes nor the face of a man who's not tired.
The difference is that his eyebags are not over-the-top.

Here's what the old one looked like in the same last frame.
2020-11-13_14_06_33-Window.png

If Old Peter's eyebags are 'over the top' then he looks more tired, and 'more tired' works better for Peter Parker's character.

Unless you're saying he looked unrealistically tired in the PS4 version I don't get the point.
 
Last edited:

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
I dunno, I think the new face is fine and dont see the iss-


...

...

...fuck the new face


joke. It's a joke.

But in all seriousness it's not like there recasting but rather going over the old face and replacing it. It's more or less "this thing you like is gone, here's this thing you have to like instead". so while a lot of the backlash is over the top and unnecessary, I understand it and the reasonable people who are disappointed. Theyve retconned something they felt attached to. I'm kinda disappointed as well and not really a fan of the new face from what I've seen of it, but that's a personal preference.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,872
I'm indifferent about the new model. It's definitely higher fidelity, but I liked the old one for what it was. I think some emotion is definitely lost in the clips in this thread.

I'm really impressed with the quality of the hair on the new models though. This gen, we finally get hair that looks sort of right.