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CenturionNami

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User Banned (2 Weeks): Inflammatory Generalizations; Trolling; Accumulated Infractions
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From Polygon. Includes a developer statement too.
Over the years of its life, Hearts of Iron IV has developed into a game about alternate histories as much as a game about the Second World War, and our expansions to the game have highlighted alternate paths in the ideologically turbulent 1930s and 40s. It is a game where you can restore the Kaiser to the German throne, lead a Communist revolution in France, and fight for Indian independence while Britain is busy at war. Most nations in Hearts of Iron customarily find paths through game decisions to three major ideologies: Democracy, Fascism, and Communism.​
In this light, the idea of a revived Confederate States of America in the Man the Guns expansion is very much in line with how Hearts of Iron has progressed. The trope of a sustained or revived Confederacy is an old and common one in alternate history fiction, so it makes an easy foil as the Fascist offshoot of an America that was pursuing policies anathema to the old South.​
Just as the presence of the Third Reich in Hearts of Iron (or many other strategy and war games) in no way indicates an endorsement or promotion of Nazi ideas, the fictional construct of a reborn Confederacy says nothing about Paradox's position on racial equality or the clear injustice of the Secessionist cause in the American Civil War.​
Man the Guns also includes paths to quickly desegregate the United States, hasten the decolonization of the British Empire, rule the Dutch colonies from Jakarta and make Trotsky the Communist ruler of Mexico. Earlier expansions dealt with the struggles of South African autonomy, Chinese collaboration, a militant India, and a restored Austro-Hungarian Empire.​
Many of the alternate history paths we outline may be controversial in the nations involved. Paradox itself is becoming a more international company, now employing staff from over two dozen different countries, and while we are continuing to improve our understanding of what is culturally appropriate worldwide, this is a subject where we will always have more to learn. We appreciate being taken to task when we slip and are grateful for the honest and direct feedback from our community.​

https://www.polygon.com/2019/2/14/18224986/hearts-of-iron-4-dlc-man-the-guns-confederacy

I don't mind alternative history scenarios like this in a wargame, but considering the fact more then half of Paradox's fanbase these days seem to be alt right trash, I question the motives of putting this in, in this political climate too boot.

Mod Edit: Reverted Post to Previous Version
 
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Lashley

<<Tag Here>>
Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,987
Alternative historical scenarios in a historical game.

I fail to see the problem, even if the fanbase is trash.
 

Kolx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,505
Don't really care or see a problem. Can't wait tho for the fuel to be finally included after almost 3 years freaking years.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,189
Hull, UK
Also Hearts of Iron 4 lets you take over the world as Adolf Hitler so, yeah.
 

Kin5290

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,390
This is a really dumb complaint considering how big alternate history pathways (including fascist and communist ones for the major powers) are for the game.

Polygon gonna be Polygon I guess.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,085
First of all, thanks the OP for keeping that stigma of Grand Strategy gamers. Feels great and inclusive to be here, you know?

It is also kinda of bad how the author omits that the path to confederancy is caused by hastening the desegregation of America (which if we consider what happened 20 years later would have gone quite bad too in this reality). Yes, it is a fantasy thing, the same as making the USA communist in 3 years, but they were changes made to make the game allow for more freedom from the players.

For more info on that Focus tree, read it here.
 
OP
OP
CenturionNami

CenturionNami

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,230
I'm going to need to see some receipts on that.
I'd love to see some proof or statistics that:
Go to any Paradox discussion board. And you'll find endless screaming about SJW's, calls to build a white Empire, killing minorities, positive memes about Donald Trump (especially the Stellaris community which treats him like the God Emperor of Mankind) and endless amounts of alt right nonsense.
 

Mudcrab

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
3,415
It's not a mischaracterization.

Fuck outta here

Go to any Paradox discussion board. And you'll find endless screaming about SJW's, calls to build a white Empire, killing minorities, positive memes about Donald Trump (especially the Stellaris community which treats him like the God Emperor of Mankind) and endless amounts of alt right nonsense.

Alt-righters go far out of their way to brigade any internet community they can, its how they proliferate, attributing that to paradox fans as a whole is nonsense and insulting.
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
You are aware than in Vanilla HoI4 you can literally turn the US into a Fascist state right? The whole point of these games is alt-history and experimentation with stuff.

Some Grand Strat fans are chuds, whether you can do this or not in a game doesn't make them not be chuds.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
You are aware than in Vanilla HoI4 you can literally turn the US into a Fascist state right? The whole point of these games is alt-history and experimentation with stuff.

Some Grand Strat fans are chuds, whether you can do this or not in a game doesn't make them not be chuds.

I only played hearts of iron 4 the one time but yeah, in that game Texas and a bunch of southern states turned fascist, seceded from the US and started trying to gobble up all the land around them. I was Mexico and it turned into a big mess :(
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,141
Go to any Paradox discussion board. And you'll find endless screaming about SJW's, calls to build a white Empire, killing minorities, positive memes about Donald Trump (especially the Stellaris community which treats him like the God Emperor of Mankind) and endless amounts of alt right nonsense.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. You continue the mischaracterization with rhetorical exaggerations like, "endless screaming", and "endless amounts of alt right nonsense".
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,189
Hull, UK
Go to any Paradox discussion board. And you'll find endless screaming about SJW's, calls to build a white Empire, killing minorities, positive memes about Donald Trump (especially the Stellaris community which treats him like the God Emperor of Mankind) and endless amounts of alt right nonsense.

Go to most any gaming board and you'll find the same. It's awful wherever that pops up, but it's hardly exclusive to historical wargamers.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,196
Seattle
Go to any Paradox discussion board. And you'll find endless screaming about SJW's, calls to build a white Empire, killing minorities, positive memes about Donald Trump (especially the Stellaris community which treats him like the God Emperor of Mankind) and endless amounts of alt right nonsense.

I'm on the paradox boards, (Which for the most part you need to have the game key to get to the specific board), and that is also a massive mischaracterization. BUT to use that as your 'evidence' that half the player base is alt-right, is ludicrous.
 
OP
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CenturionNami

CenturionNami

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,230
Go to most any gaming board and you'll find the same. It's awful wherever that pops up, but it's hardly exclusive to historical wargamers.
It's in every fandom, but I would argue yes, it's especially prevalent in wargames. The Total War fanbase is exactly the same.
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
It in every fandom, but I would argue yes, it's especially prevalent in wargames. The Total War fanbase is exactly the same.
The TW fanbase is far more concerned about the kinds of sandals the Romans wore than any kind of chudness. Go to any of the old TW forums political boards and you can see that it's certainly not a monolith of morons.
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,628
Go to any Paradox discussion board. And you'll find endless screaming about SJW's, calls to build a white Empire, killing minorities, positive memes about Donald Trump (especially the Stellaris community which treats him like the God Emperor of Mankind) and endless amounts of alt right nonsense.

If you want to deny that a large portion of the fanbase are alt right, that's your problem not mine.

I still waiting for your proof that more than 50% of their fan base is alt right.
 
OP
OP
CenturionNami

CenturionNami

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,230
The TW fanbase is far more concerned about the kinds of sandals the Romans wore than any kind of chudness. Go to any of the old TW forums political boards and you can see that it's certainly not a monolith of morons.
Total War Center has always been a monolith of morons. It's shifted from that to complaining about females in the games.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,085
I'm on the paradox boards, (Which for the most part you need to have the game key to get to the specific board), and that is also a massive mischaracterization. BUT to use that as your 'evidence' that half the player base is alt-right, is ludicrous.
Yeah, similarly a part of Paradox forums and Paradox quickly cuts down any serious alt-right stuff. Same with slurs (Which they have gotten tougher with).
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,447
Go to any Paradox discussion board. And you'll find endless screaming about SJW's, calls to build a white Empire, killing minorities, positive memes about Donald Trump (especially the Stellaris community which treats him like the God Emperor of Mankind) and endless amounts of alt right nonsense.

That's a pretty stupid conclusion to make.

Also, by hearing their podcast, they don't seem to be anything remotely near alt-rights, so i think there's not really anything to see here, at least not in Paradox's decisions.
 

Muad'dib

Banned
Jun 7, 2018
1,253
Don't see a problem, it's fairly standard for open ended historical RTS games, I mean I managed to conquer Europe as the Ottoman empire and sacked Paris and Berlin in Empire Total War. I mostly play as either Soviet or German in Company of Heroes because I like their tech and play style as opposed to allies, doesn't mean I share Nazi or Communist ideologies.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,085
That's a pretty stupid conclusion to make.

Also, by hearing their podcast, they don't seem to be anything remotely near alt-rights, so i think there's not really anything to see here, at least not in Paradox's decisions.
To be fair, the newest Stellaris game director tends to share asshole stuff in Twitter. The other figures are quite cool.
 

Nephrahim

Member
Jun 9, 2018
291
We're talking about a game where the most played nation by far is Nazi Germany. I can't believe soemeone would try to make a case about this in a game where your head of state is literally Hitler.
 

jman2050

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,801
Victoria 2 based an entire expansion around the leadup and execution of the Civil War, including letting you try to win as the Confederacy.

This is par the course for alt-history sims like this.
 
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