• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Comrade Grogu

Banned
Jun 20, 2020
4,090
User Banned (permanent): peddling conspiracy theories, prior ban for peddling conspiracy theories
Here's the article in question.

Judge for yourself:

Starting At The Beginning of the Article said:
Among the few memories that most Americans still retain of the Vietnam War—now nearly 60 years in the past—one of the most vivid centers around the torture suffered by Senator John McCain at the hands of his brutal Vietnamese captors while a prisoner of war in Hanoi's Hoa Lo prison (AKA The Hanoi Hilton).

This story has been told, retold, and continually burnished countless times by admiring media interviews and a flood of books and memoirs, including several by McCain himself.

Another memory of the war, still believed by millions of Americans, is that hundreds or even thousands of American soldiers classified as MIA (Missing in Action) are actually being held and tortured in secret North Vietnamese POW camps, callously abandoned by our government and desperately praying to be rescued—preferably in a Hollywood-style rescue by Chuck Norris or Sylvester Stallone, who starred in the spate of Commie-hating blockbuster movies inspired by their plight.

This belief is continually reinforced by POW/MIA flags which fly at every post office, and a ready supply of new books and movies, such as the 2018 release of the film M.I.A. A Greater Evil.

But both memories of the Vietnam War are false memories. However passionately believed, they were cynically manufactured fantasies implanted in all-too-willing American minds for political purposes.

How and why these counter-factual beliefs were so successfully foisted on the American public is the subject of the new myth-shattering book by Tom Wilber and Jerry Lembcke, Dissenting POWs: From Vietnam's Hoa Lo Prison to America Today (New York: Monthly Review Press, 2021).

Wilber is the son of a dissenting POW, Walter "Gene" Wilber, who is featured in the book, and has contributed to the award-winning documentary film The Flower Pot Story by Ngọc Dũng. Lembcke is a distinguished sociologist from College of the Holy Cross who has written a number of books debunking popular myths about the Vietnam War.

The two start their book by noting that the dominant war hero image of the POW—who endured torture and resisted service to enemy propaganda—was to a large extent created by high-ranking men like McCain who were captured early in the conflict.

McCain's oft-told story of ill-treatment and torture is contradicted by Nguyen Tien Tran, the chief prison guard of the jail in which McCain was held. In a report by The Guardian, "[Tran] acknowledged that conditions in the prison were 'tough, though not inhuman'. But, he added: 'We never tortured McCain. On the contrary, we saved his life, curing him with extremely valuable medicines that at times were not available to our own wounded'. . . . [H]e denied torturing him, saying it was his mission to ensure that McCain survived. As the son of the US naval commander in Vietnam, he offered a potential valuable propaganda weapon."

Most of the others promoting a heroized image of U.S. POW's were graduates of service academies and came from privileged backgrounds. They included a) James Stockdale, who ran for Vice President in 1992 as the running mate of Ross Perot; b) Robinson Risner, a double recipient of the Air Force Cross, the second highest military decoration for valor; and c) Jeremiah Denton, who went on to become the first Republican Senator from the state of Alabama and a close ally of President Ronald Reagan.

John McCain fit well with this group because he was also academically privileged and his family included high-ranking military officers like his father, Jack, who was an admiral and the Commander of the U.S. Pacific Command.

Furthermore:

From The Middle of the Article said:
Most dissenting POWs came from a working-class background.

James A. Daly, an African-American infantryman from the Bedford-Stuyvesant section of Brooklyn, for example, was raised in poverty by a single mother.

His 1975 book, Black Prisoner of War, describes his three years of jungle confinement after his capture by North Vietnamese soldiers and the South Vietnam-based National Liberation Front (NLF), followed by a two-month trek north to Hanoi on the Ho Chi Minh trail where he experienced what it was like to be on the receiving end of U.S. ordnance.

Bob Chenoweth, from a white working-class family in Oregon, similarly developed an empathy for the Vietnamese people and a distaste for the racist views of most Americans toward the Vietnamese.

A helicopter crew member, before he was shot down and captured, Chenoweth said he "couldn't see how U.S. forces could possibly be helping the Vietnamese given the attitude that GIs had, viewing them as 'subhuman' and disparaging them as 'gooks and dinks.'"

Chenoweth and other of his contemporaries authored anti-war statements, wrote messages to GIs asking them to follow their consciences, sent letters to politicians, and recorded tapes to be aired via Radio Hanoi.

Higher ranking POWs responded by trying to isolate the dissenters from other American prisoners while charging them with participating in a conspiracy against the United States.

One of the dissidents, Abel Kavanaugh, committed suicide as a result of the intense pressure and prospective stigma of a dishonorable discharge only a few months after coming home from Vietnam.

Charges against the POW dissidents were eventually dropped, Wilber and Lembcke believe, so as to not jeopardize the hero-prisoner story with too much attention on dissent and through a possible exposure of inconsistencies in the accusers' own prison biographies.

Some pictures from the article:

amazon-com-black-prisoner-of-war-a-conscientious.jpeg


a-person-standing-at-a-podium-description-automat.png


clarence-adams-with-korean-prisoners-of-war-and-co.jpeg


the-korean-war-prisoner-who-never-came-home.jpeg


antiwar-resistance-within-the-military-during-the.jpeg


I looked online and found the book that the article is based on here, though you can also purchase it on Amazon.

A friend gave this article to me.

Judge for yourself, but it's basically questioning the narrative about the treatment of American POWs in the Vietnam War and even compares the treatment of American POWs to the renditions under the CIA's Operation Phoenix at one point.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,221
Yeah, I'm not seeing evidence here. I mean half the article is about POW/MIA bracelets and Jane fonda.

The article presents a theory at best and seems to be taking any first hand accounts that run contrary to other first hand accounts as obviously true with no critical lense. The author has a theory and is looking for anything that fits his own narrative...

It's not to say this is impossible but the thread title is extremely misleading.

Edit: of it's just a conspiracy theory website. Nm
 

Dan-o

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,893
How could you not trust a website with articles titled like: "Tupac Shakur Would Have Turned 50 Today–If He Hadn't Threatened Deal Between Drug Traffickers and U.S. Banks Making Billions Laundering CIA Drug Money"
lol exactly what I saw before coming back here to read the comments.
 

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,594
www.squackle.com
Yeah, I'm not seeing evidence here. I mean half the article is about POW/MIA bracelets and Jane fonda

yeah, really. I didn't read every word but it's fucking thousands of words about stuff that isn't what the topic is about.

What's the "evidence" here?


How could you not trust a website with articles titled like: "Tupac Shakur Would Have Turned 50 Today–If He Hadn't Threatened Deal Between Drug Traffickers and U.S. Banks Making Billions Laundering CIA Drug Money"


oh. It's that kind of evidence.

done with this thread I guess.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,237
None of your quotes offered much in the way of evidence.

I'm willing to entertain that this may be true, but I'll need to see actual evidence.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,769
We're not giving conspiracy theorists the time of day
 
Status
Not open for further replies.