Not sure on Twitter and the Bungie forums, but when Reddit can't even take its own volatility seriously it's certainly not.
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New Destiny 2 annual pass content is a puzzle taking streamers over 20 hours (and counting)
- Thread starter nasirum
- Start date
Even here you're side stepping the problem.
D2 doesn't have SO MUCH content that most players never see the very end (can't keep up unless you play as a job), but it's built on a grind that many of those players just don't think is worth their time and it's no fun because too repetitive.
For many players the moment where the game tells them they have to grind the same thing 100 times is the moment where the content runs dry and stops, not where there's so much they cannot keep up.
But we aren't even talking about them, here. Because those players won't even buy the Annual Pass and already left the game. The Annual Pass is for those who ARE at the light cap, and are waiting for these TINY content drops. Only to discover that the new tiny piece isn't available at the date it was expected but is locked behind this.
I'm not sidestepping anything, I just don't agree with your definition of the problem, or your belief that nothing in BA is new content and that D2 as a whole is short on content for the average player.
I'd recommend they not buy a game that's based on running content again and again to get loot then.
This doesn't say anything though. You don't know if twitter and the bungie forums are it? What's there to know, they literally react the same way as reddit does. And you're saying that the destiny reddit isn't part of the destiny community because some of them joke about how the subreddit reacts sometimes? Like really?
Again, still curious what could be considered representative of the destiny community. Random discords? Youtube comments?
Edit - even the freaking destiny era thread aren't exactly singing the praises of this
The Bungie twitter through all of this is also hugely entertaining:
https://twitter.com/Bungie/with_replies
https://twitter.com/Bungie/with_replies
Yes, since I don't use Twitter to engage with Destiny nor the Bungie forums I don't know how representative they are. Really not a groundbreaking thought process despite how aghast you act.
No I said the front page of the subreddit isn't representative of the average user sentiment in the community, which should be common sense to anyone who's spent enough time there and a number of other games subreddits.
I'm acting aghast now? Uhm, okay I guess. Still mostly just curious about what's representative of the destiny community though.
To be clear, you seemed to imply that Datto's mood and then the front page of Reddit were good representatives of the Destiny communities sentiment. I disagree with those as Datto is, well, known for his temper and frustration and the latter is heavily known for its flip-flop attitude toward content releases.
Just because I don't think the two things you put out are representative doesn't mean I know what is. It just means I disagree with those two things being used for that purpose. We're actually in tandem for the most part as I think the framing of the puzzle and communication is the real issue, not the puzzle itself, 'streamerfication' of the game, amount of content or otherwise.
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Come on anybody calling black armory content is just white knighting the game. I'm one of the most hardcore destiny players you'll find but not blind. when they said the annual pass content wouldn't be as big as expansions previously I was okay with that I also didn't expect them to be absolute shit.
Because you're making of this a personal disagreement while instead I'm describing a factual thing where my opinion doesn't even matter. I'm not talking about me, I'm describing what the game is.
Do you agree, regardless of preference or judgement of quality, that the amount of content in Diablo 3 is much, much less than the content offered in Path of Exile, where they keep releasing new CONTENT expansions while Diablo is left unsupported while Blizzard devs develop their mobile game?
So, the issue isn't that games of this type (Diablo 3, Grim Dawn, Path of Exile, Warframe, The Division, Destiny 2, Athem soon) are fundamentally built on repetition of content. BUT that the pool they use and from where they draw the content VARIES IN SIZE.
Some of these games do offer more content than others. Destiny 2 is one where that pool is rather narrow despite the high amount of DLCs, expansion packs and re-releases across the years. The amount of overall diverse content offered in the game is narrow. Cool looking, but narrow.
Then the total amount of diverse content you can draw from determines how much you can get away with the repetition before it feels a pointless grind and players become disenchanted with it. This is a problem in D2 because the pool it draws from is narrow and because with the release of D2 they erased the pool built by D1 (at least some of it, since enemies are the same). A quest that you repeat 1000 times isn't "more content" than a quest you repeat 100 times. It's the illusion of it.
You should check out a world first video for a raid or a guide for one to see the mechanics. They're really neat.
No, you're really not:
"D2 doesn't have SO MUCH content that most players never see the very end (can't keep up unless you play as a job), but it's built on a grind that many of those players just don't think is worth their time and it's no fun because too repetitive.
For many players the moment where the game tells them they have to grind the same thing 100 times is the moment where the content runs dry and stops, not where there's so much they cannot keep up."
"You can argue that Forsaken provides "enough" content, but you cannot argue that the Annual Pass is offering new content. Because there's none"
Among others. These are opinions, you provide no data for the former to start touting your view as fact, and the latter is inherently false even if you don't believe the new additions to be fun or distinct enough. I mean shit, you've had enough replies on the last page to know better than to start putting out the "yours are opinions, mine are facts" nonsense.
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I agree that Bungie should have not announced this, and just have let it be an organic discovery.
But this is an amazing content, and the fact that it's destroying the streamers who are just taking their cues from /r/raidsecrets is putting a smile on my face.
/r/Raidsecrets are the real heroes in this, and it will be solved by them, the community.
But this is an amazing content, and the fact that it's destroying the streamers who are just taking their cues from /r/raidsecrets is putting a smile on my face.
/r/Raidsecrets are the real heroes in this, and it will be solved by them, the community.
Yeah I have to say when I booted up the game to see the new shit and realized I had to go back to grinding just to be able to complete the first forge I was pretty disappointed. I really hope the next bit of content is better.
'white-knighting'
'I'm hardcore but not blind'
Come on dude, you can do better than that..
I've sincerely been enjoying the Black Armoury content since it released and have every reason to believe I will continue to. If you wrap up the new forges, weapons, exotics and minor quests/bounties into a bundle, I'm happy to have paid a third of the Annual Pass for the enjoyment I've got from those things. That's without this puzzle, Niobe Labs and the TLW quest coming at the end of the month,
It's stuff that wasn't in the game to do before, that is now, that I'm having a lot of fun with. If that's not 'content' then apologies for misusing the term but it's new elements to the game that I find to be enjoyable. Sorry that you don't and I wish you did, but I'm not out here calling you a blind hater or some equivalent for that either.
Would have been data mined regardless, in fact the fourth forge was data mined which caused people to assume Niobe labs was going to be a dungeon. Bungie had to come out and say it wouldn't be.
I was in a rush when I posted that because it's work time and I had to shower, but now that I'm settled in here's some deeper thoughts.
I'm not a bandwagon Destiny fan, or fair weather. I'm also not a dedicated idiot. I love Destiny, if you ask me about it randomly I glow when discussing how I feel Bungie has perfected the FPS Console Shooter. This is a FUCKING MASTERCLASS in the game play department. Everything feels good to shoot and makes you feel like a god no matter your skill level because of their easy to access, and fun to master philosophy when PLAYING the game. Each gun feels great to shoot. They just added Bows, and re-added LMGs and they feel excellent to shoot. In Destiny you can easily perform shit like 1080 headshots with the bow and not be a god tier CS:GO player right?
So they nailed that aspect.
World Design has been iffy, I think Highmoon's job on Forsaken has been the best this game has ever looked in terms of the world and if after Destiny 3 Highmoon takes over for Bungie I wouldn't be sad in the slightest. Highmoon's contribution has been incredible. I went from loving how Destiny 2 plays, but not being in love with it to really enjoying it.
Unfortunately the same can't be said for anything VV has done in Destiny 2, which includes Warmind and Black Armory. While Warmind has my favorite Strikes in D2, it's not because of their amazing design but rather how quick I can get through them when I want to do something fast. The best overall strikes in my opinion exist in Forsaken's launch and are incredible.
The Last Wish Raid and Corrupted are fucking amazing pieces of content too and many users here have covered why.
Now, their live event team seems completely hit or miss, mostly miss. Most of the events in Destiny 2 have been absolute shit show grind fests. This last event is the only one I enjoyed because it was extra reward for doing nothing really extra. i'm not sure if that's a good thing or not, but typically they make these events extremely tedious, like the Halloween event.
Onto Black Armory. Black Armory, like Warmind before it attempts to bring players back to the base game for fucking reasons unknown. It doesn't really do NEW things. The Forges aren't really new content. They're 1 room horde modes with the payoff being "RNG Guns that are exclusive to this particular spot" The rest of the game has RNG guns now so this isn't some amazing feature exclusive to the forge, just the specific guns themselves are exclusive to here. I'm ok with this though because I feel what Destiny 2 has been lacking is exclusive weapons/armor from specific areas. For some reason they pretty much shit canned this in strikes and slowly added it back, but not to the extent that D1 had after Taken King. One of my favorite things in Diablo was running specific bosses for higher chances at loot they tended to drop, like doing Meph runs and stuff. In Marvel Heroes this became a core design with loot later, specific bosses dropped specific items. I believe in this design philosophy personally, but I also believe you should be able to get something anywhere, which we did in MH as well but on a much lower chance.
So for example in Marvel Heroes, Kurse could drop Gem of the Kursed. This was one of his big shiny items (He had a few, and later on bosses in Marvel Heroes would have 3 or more items each even) This was his big ticket item. Because of the speed you could get to Kurse, or any boss in our game, our loot chances were pretty shitty. This item had a .2% chance to drop from Kurse, which honestly looks real bad to the average player, but isn't actually bad since we also had a trade economy and a few thousand players farming this guy. So while Kurse was -always- in his little Dungeon, we also put him in a few others places like a global player patrol where all players could work together and kill a stronger version of him, and he had a slightly higher chance to drop this item there. Additionally we also made his item a possible reward from our events at an even higher chance, and it was also available from any boss in the game at a .02% chance to drop.
Destiny does not do anything like this really. Destiny's loot is in general pretty flat, or very grindy. You can always get what you want in Destiny outside of exotics in some form, but it tends to come with a heavy grind, like the new Gambit Auto Rifle. Destiny does actually lack a heavy focus on the item game. This is especially noticeable in the armor department. There's a few exotics that are ok or cool, but the non exotics just sort of fall off and have no real purpose outside of being a spot you wear because you have to.
Destiny does not do anything like this really. Destiny's loot is in general pretty flat, or very grindy. You can always get what you want in Destiny outside of exotics in some form, but it tends to come with a heavy grind, like the new Gambit Auto Rifle. Destiny does actually lack a heavy focus on the item game. This is especially noticeable in the armor department. There's a few exotics that are ok or cool, but the non exotics just sort of fall off and have no real purpose outside of being a spot you wear because you have to.
What Black Armory does is force you to go out and play stuff like specific base game events, or zones and really just slog through building a weapon frame. You spend a little time doing this, then go into a forge and face 2 waves and a boss in their horde mode. None of the bosses so far have been exciting, and the enemies are the same enemies you've been facing so yawn.
Black Armory could have been something really cool and still small, like giving players some control over what drops on EVERY gun in the game, sort of like reforging in Diablo or re-rolling in PoE. Instead it's just a few guns, and a lot of using old content. Nothing really new here except the small raid, and the 4 rooms of the forge. There's more content in the loot boxes this season than the game.
Man, what a crazy puzzle.
I'll throw my 2 cents in. Hit 600 with Forsaken and nabbed 1000 voices, but didn't pick up black armory as it all launched during a super busy time for me and I was away from my PlayStation for a month. Kinda glad at this point. I grinded out a ton of stuff to hit 600, doing the same things over and over. And then black armory launched and asked you to keep doing that for another 30 light levels just to get up to speed for the new stuff.
That's where they lost me. Gambit isn't even fun anymore since nobody does roving supers while invading so I can't get the title without playing like an insane person. And I just don't want to keep grinding out the same stuff again and again for glorified public events. Maybe if I'd been in a position to get raid ready I'd feel differently, but I missed that boat just because of when the content launched.
I'll throw my 2 cents in. Hit 600 with Forsaken and nabbed 1000 voices, but didn't pick up black armory as it all launched during a super busy time for me and I was away from my PlayStation for a month. Kinda glad at this point. I grinded out a ton of stuff to hit 600, doing the same things over and over. And then black armory launched and asked you to keep doing that for another 30 light levels just to get up to speed for the new stuff.
That's where they lost me. Gambit isn't even fun anymore since nobody does roving supers while invading so I can't get the title without playing like an insane person. And I just don't want to keep grinding out the same stuff again and again for glorified public events. Maybe if I'd been in a position to get raid ready I'd feel differently, but I missed that boat just because of when the content launched.
Loved Forsaken and haven't even touched the raid content, but I guess I got a little burnt with the grind. Haven't touched Black Armory and besides some of the special events every now and then the next time I'll properly play is when the next PROPER expansion hits.
You should play the raids, they are a hell of experience. The BA is not as bad as people are making it out to be if you like collecting weapons, the pinicale weapons are worth chasing too if you are into gambit.
Lmfao nice lets throw the casual term around without even knowing anything about the other person. 369 Hours on Destiny 1 and 376 Hours in Destiny 2 and still regularly playing.
I know what the hell the difference between the two are. Niobe Labs as a whole should have been similar to Shattered Throne. Challenging end game content that's fun. But I guess some of the "hardcore" and streaming players didn't know that this type of ARG and vague content is actually not fun and what Destiny should be about. Black Armory has been incredibly dull and underwhelming. This is only furthering my stance.
I love Destiny and some stuff like this is cool but, this is really iffy. I feel like since Rise of Iron the game has turned slowly into World of Warcraft with these puzzles and mechanics.
The Taken King was the perfect blend of this can be rewarding with some practice in the raids/activities. Everything in Destiny 2 has been about performing perfectly with really no room for error.
I miss when me and my friends used to log in every Tuesday like a ritual to do nightfalls and raids cause they never got too tedious or difficult once you played them over and over.
The Taken King was the perfect blend of this can be rewarding with some practice in the raids/activities. Everything in Destiny 2 has been about performing perfectly with really no room for error.
I miss when me and my friends used to log in every Tuesday like a ritual to do nightfalls and raids cause they never got too tedious or difficult once you played them over and over.
The bigger issue to me with the Annual Pass is that the forges are all quests that are 600+ and take some grinding to get there. I'm just about to access the second forge as I crawl towards 620, and I'm a dedicated (but not super hardcore) Destiny 2 player. As I've stated here before, the base version of any content should be easily enjoyable by everyone. Harder versions with better rewards can be reserved for people at max level.
NB: don't use the word "lazy".
Your criticisms are totally valid and this decision/content is a lot of things - but it's definitely not "lazy". Hundreds, maybe even thousands of hours of strategic decisions and high-effort work will have gone into even choosing to make this content, let alone actually making it.
I feel like this will at least appeal to those still willing to put up with the content this new season pass has brought us. Dunno why anybody would be looking forward to another forge after having experienced the first one.
Literally just a really low effort arena for fighting waves of enemies we've already fought, and a bullet sponge boss with no mechanics.
Literally just a really low effort arena for fighting waves of enemies we've already fought, and a bullet sponge boss with no mechanics.
As with raid strategies I'll wait for someone else to solve the Niobe mysteries and then go in with a guide. Bungie twitter said this content will still be available even after it's completed by someone else.
Raided 2x myself last night instead and got some sweet loot, then logged off.
Raided 2x myself last night instead and got some sweet loot, then logged off.
I'd be more receptive to BA if I didn't have to replay old content for 30+ hours just to ensure I don't get one shotted in the first fucking forge. The content I've already done a shit ton of times.
I have 0 problem with the requirements to unlock the forges (although this last one seems dumb.) as they don't take too long to do. But the first forge should've been a PL600 activity, with the other forges progressively getting tougher, but with the previous having a clear progression towards the next.
I stopped playing because I got tired of running the same exact content I've been running. I still like the gameplay but I really feel like the annual pass is a rip off. I would have zero problem with basically any of this if the microtransactions store covered the cost for what are basically glorified events. BA shouldn't be a paid product at all.
Edit: I absolutely stand by my belief that BA is the worst piece of paid Destiny content by far.
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Yeah it's how I've been feeling too. I don't even care to grind to 640 to run Scourge of the Past
The entitlement in this thread is unreal. You will get as much as you put into it just like any other grind game. No one also said you need to have everything in the game. Some of you are so selfish and unrealistic that you need to do a mirror check.
User Warned: Derogatory language
What? I'm not even talking about you. I'm talking about the 'tards on reddit.
Though those are some ridiculously low hours for the games. But hey, play what you want. That comment about casuals wasn't geared towards you.
They are not shit though, I think it's hilarous that you are saying anyone not having a problem with the black armory content is white knighting but you are just shitting on it for no good reason.
This is simply wrong. The only things you could make this argument for are this newest puzzle and maybe the longer grind to max light -- which is something many in the community asked for previously.
Different groups of players all want different things and there will always be someone complaining.
Good. I want the streamers to burn out so it can get solved anyway and the people claiming designedforstreamers can remove their heads from their asses.
The sparrow race in the Scourge of the Past is pretty fun.
The whole raid has been fun... only just got to it this week... got up to the final encounter last night... we hope to wrap it up tomorrow night.
If I were Bungie I'd be very frustrated with the community right now, people were literally screaming they want more of this when the Whisper of the Worm quest released and when they get it they all bitch and moan about it. Granted, these puzzles are not that stimulating and it sucks that they announced it and people expected to be able to play it - I think that's where most of the hate comes from right now. There's really no pleasing the community at this point.
Destiny 2 post launch: there isn't anything to do we completed everything in 3hrs
Destiny 2 Forsaken post launch: wtf why can't I do everything in a day and obtain every single gun. It's a job now to earn stuff
I really feel bad for Bungie
Yeah, that's not how that works, and I have yet to see valid reasoning as to why it's so. People don't get to be right just because they're angry.
