It'll be 10..maybe 11, only half the story though. CPU is the biggie this time around, plus all the usual Cerny tweaks etc etc, and I'd imagine a hefty mem bandwidth amount.
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New AMD gaming console APU Leaked: AMD Gonzalo. Ryzen + Navi
- Thread starter DukeBlueBall
- Start date
If CPU is huge deal this time around where they are cheaping out big time this time around? MEM?
Seems to be rule more than anything else, imbalanced consoles and imbalanced premade "gaming" PCs.
Id be disappointed in 8. Ive always thought 10 would make a great next gen 4k machine, especially with the big CPU jump.
8 seems like it would be making sacrifices scraping along to hit 4k with some games dipping to lower resolutions for all the bells and whistles.
More than 10 seems too much for a good pricepoint.
Especially if the hardware is already itoned out and has been delayed for launch release software.
8 seems like it would be making sacrifices scraping along to hit 4k with some games dipping to lower resolutions for all the bells and whistles.
More than 10 seems too much for a good pricepoint.
Especially if the hardware is already itoned out and has been delayed for launch release software.
For e.g. look at PS4, nice memory amount with decent GPU capability yet total stinker of an CPU.
Same imbalances apply to many prebuild PC's. Very nice CPU and GPU, shitty amount RAM etc. Variations of that.
Why that is done? To keep prices in bay maybe, but seems to be a rule that they are is always that one key part that is gimped and as result holds everything else back.
ah bummer, i hope that we can get close to 11TF. exclusives could look soo good.
I feel like we get the same reactions every time we get into new console territory. A ton of people bitch and moan about how the new consoles aren't going for the state of the art powerhouse specs when in the end it doesn't matter because the developers will still give us amazing looking games with the new tech and the console makers won't gimp themselves charging for a $600 console or upwards.
Ah, I understand what you're saying.
This CPU imbalance shouldn't be an issue with the PS5 and Xbox 3. Ryzen from what I've heard is in a different league compared to the Jaguar.
I just think that you don't know what you're talking about. They don't "gimp" these machines, and no one part really holds back anything whatsoever. The CPU in the PS4 is as it is because they're partly relying on GPU compute.
To think that you'd have a team of probably some of the brightest minds in hardware building making "gimped hardware" is just insane.
Jaguar was a particularly shitty CPU at the time for PS4. Just about anything intel was in a different league already. A low power Ryzen would be a decent CPU for the time. Not top of the line, but still good.
They're using the same suppliers, with the same technology. Unless they hit different price points, both Sony and Microsoft will produce similar hardware.
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Nobody is messing up by being lower powered. At a given price point with a given technology, there is only so much you can do.
-edit for clarity-
Nobody is messing up by being lower powered. At a given price point with a given technology, there is only so much you can do.
I don't think consoles need anything above a relatively good CPU. Look what's being pushed on these low powered Jaguars.
They also have to obey by target costs while doing their best to reach target performance etc. goals set by Sony , they have to compromise. PS4's CPU, Jaguar, comes across as such compromise as its origins is as CPU targeted for lightweight, low power consumption, systems. What they are doing with it and getting out of it respectable, but it's shame they stuck with it for Pro refresh of PS4.
But this time their target cost seemingly allows them to include a good CPU and GPU, no?
Additional memory shouldn't be an issue, hopefully. One X is already using 12 GB of GDDR5.
Anything below 14 Tflops will be a disappointment ? Prepare to be disappointed then.
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What do you think developers will be able to do with the CPU power? Is it enough for AI and physics to be heavily integrated in the gameplay? I.e. could gameplay mechanics actually be designed around improved AI and physics?
If PS5 is only at 8TF MS could just say, X1X is already our next gen console, make games exclusively for it (jump from 1,6 to 6TF would be amazing already). They would have a head start in software sales and could bring their mid gen refresh sooner, much sooner then Sony. What broke MS neck this gen was not the power imbalance imo it was the botched launch, they never really recovered from that.
The CPU is utter shite though. That's gonna be a game changer even if the graphical power is only incrementally upgraded.
Both MS and Sony have enjoyed selling mid gen refreshes for a couple years now. I think the only way they can duplicate that success for next gen is to release a slightly underpowered console.
Its genius really. By the time everyone start complaining about power they'll just release a PS5 pro or wtvr the next Xbox X will be. And people will shut up.
Besides 4k will be the standard next gen for console gamers. 8k tvs aren't happening anytime soon considering 4k adoption rates and content we have now.
8-10tflops will be enough to satisfy gamers and developers until like 2026. And a 12-13 tflop refresh will be there in 2023 for those who complain.
Its genius really. By the time everyone start complaining about power they'll just release a PS5 pro or wtvr the next Xbox X will be. And people will shut up.
Besides 4k will be the standard next gen for console gamers. 8k tvs aren't happening anytime soon considering 4k adoption rates and content we have now.
8-10tflops will be enough to satisfy gamers and developers until like 2026. And a 12-13 tflop refresh will be there in 2023 for those who complain.
Excellent post. The last time that consoles could compare to high end GPUs of the previous year were the 360/Ps3, which gave us the $599 and RROD disasters along massive initial loses to the companies by subsiding hardware. Unless you guys are expecting Sony and/or MS to lose hundreds of dollars per console sold again, you should temper your expectation. CPU upgrade will be massive under all realistic scenarios, though.
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Sounds about right. Thanks for the compilation.
The GPU is not the issue anyway, it's the CPU evolution that is really needed. This gen was weak on this side.
This!
Not to forget that they will be "Custom" chips which will eke out maximum performance for the Silicon.
For MS, this makes most sense to me:
Xbox One S : 149$ ( Fall 2020$)
Project xCloud : 199$ ( Q3/Q4 2019?)
Xbox One X : 299$/349$ (Fall 2020) ( 6TF) ( 1080p 60fps, 4k 30fps)
Xbox Lockhart : 399$ ( 8-9 TF, Custom Zen 2, 12GB, Custom Navi, 500GB SSD, RTX, BR Player)/PS5 Direct Competitor ( 4k 30, 1440p 60, 4k 60 on few games)
Xbox Anaconda : 599$ ( 11-13 TF, 16GB RAM, Custom Zen 2, Custom Navi, 1TB SSD, Full RTX) ( 4k 60fps)
For Sony :
PS4 : 199$ ( Fall 2020)
PS4 Pro : 299$ ( Fall/Spring 2020)
PS5 : 399$ ( 8-9 TF, Custom Zen 2, 12GB, Custom Navi, 500GB SSD, Full BC, RTX) ( 4k 30, 1440p 60, 4k 60 on few games)
Sony have realized that 399$ is the sweet spot, Mass Market domination and I don't think they will take risks here.
If Sony and MS both have custom Navi's but based on the same architecture(as speculatively Sony had a major hand in developing it with AMD), why would there be such a disparity in tflops/gpu performance? I like the idea of Sony offering an 11tflop PS5 for $399. That's a worthy upgrade where there's no weak link so to speak. With the cpu and memory solutions more knowledgeable people are predicting, the 8tflop gpu would be the handicap and many will be disappointed. If they make it a flat 11, they can say PS5 is a 10x increase in graphical power compared to PS4, which sounds immense.
11TF GPU at 399$ when the Xbox One X is half of that and weaker components and is selling at >400$? I just can't see it happening.
If Sony goes for 499$, I can see that happening.
Is it really a consensus MS will be releasing 2 Xbox systems at launch?
I've seen this posted a bunch of times. I know they will be pushing a streaming option of some sort but didn't know 2 Xbox systems was possible at one time.
Why do people think > TF equals better console. The Pro TF was almost 4 times more than the base model so more TF doesn't make it a beast of a console. I guess the Pro and X messaging has everyone confused.
Aren't draw calls done on the CPU side? Is that what you're asking?
It won't matter as much this upcoming gen. Both consoles will be doing native 4k with ease.
Neither MS nor Sony are gonna be bloating about power when they announce this stuff on stage. Its gonna be nothing like this gen was with the 30% more powerful nonsense and the 1080p vs 900p stuff.
Next gen its gonna all about pushing subscription and streaming services onto gamers. You will hear more about PSnow, PS+, Gamepass and GwG than you will anything else. Also wtvr new streaming service MS announces soon.
No, because next gen games are going to utilise the significantly more powerful CPU, which the X doesn't have.
Given that the weak CPU is a constant in all console designs, where exactly are the 'balanced' consoles supposed to come from?
The ones that cheap-out on everything equally?
I don't believe that Sony will show PS5 until February 2020, E3 2020 blowout and a November 2020 release even though im hoping for a September 2020 release.
The XBOX 360 had HT. That said, there's no mention of 16T in the leak, and judging from the kind of jump they can get out of 7nm there's no way they can get an 8 core Ryzen in an APU and sell it for a reasonable price.
The Fenghuang 15FF APU, the one the Subor Z uses, has a slightly higher transistor count and die area than the SoC in the XBOX One X, but due to the presence of a Ryzen CPU with 4 cores and 8 threads, it can only fit 24 Compute Units in that larger area, and as a result only produces 4 TFLOPs, all while keeping the CPU at 3GHZ and consuming slightly more power than the XBOX One X. Given that, so far, the 7nm node does not offer better price per transistor than 16/14/12nm, I doubt the new consoles could have a much larger transistor count than the XBOX One X or this Subor Z. (Just look at how the Vega VII has 200$ extra MSRP over what the Vega 64 had at release, while having almost the same number of transistors in a much smaller surface)
With this in mind, well, I'd say they can get a 4 core Ryzen in there, and ~30CUs?, at XBOX One X price. Which would kind of line up with a "Navi 10-lite" if Navi 10 ends up having the same number of CUs as Polaris. The Navi architecture better have gained the ability to clock very high like Nvidia GPUs do, if they wanna get those 8 TFLOPs.
Jaguar was the best amd could provide in an apu at the time, it wasn't really cheaping out. Likewise X1 was the best off the shelf chip Nintendo could have gotten, maybe they could have done something custom if they really wanted to, but we'll never know.
The Last of Us Part 2 and RDR2 is built with base console limitations, 2013 tech. I marvel at what these devs have achieved. Now imagine what they'll be able to do with 8-10tf and Ryzen as their base.