You realize this is a show written from the perspective of dumb kids right? Like, it should be clear Ali Wong's character is not meant to be some actual authority when she is calling people boring normies and shit.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Netflix tweets out problematic clip from “Big Mouth” [Co-creator responds,check threadmark]
- Thread starter Deleted member 26156
- Start date
i do wonder if schools are teaching this new definition of bisexual. or is it more a grassroots unofficial movement. i know when i was in school early aughts it meant bi as in the two major sexes, males and females. new to me.
But why is it called bi if it can mean more than 2? Or rather, how does it different from pansexual if it can mean any number of genders?
This has been explained many times in this thread already. Pan people often describe their attraction as being regardless or blind of gender at all. Gender is not a consideration.
I am attracted to far more women than men, for example, and im attracted to them in different ways. So I identify as bi, not pan.
Having said that I'm not pan, so I can't speak for one who is on how they see their attractions
I'm thinking health/biology class mainly, where it should hopefully come up in US public school
A bigger conversation is there about whether or not bisexual is a term that fits in with a non-binary spectrum. Bi means two, the origin of bisexuality is both male and female. I doubt there are many bisexuals who wouldn't be attracted to a gender non-binary person, so perhaps we're more accurately polysexual or pansexual depending on the limitations of our attractions.
Regardless, any fair minded person would acknowledge the spectrum to be convoluted and dense and anyone watching that episode or that show would not seriously take from it the idea that writers are suggesting they think bisexuals can't be attracted to transgender people.
It's just a clumsy bit of writing to introduce the spectrum to the bisexual 13 year old who fucks couch cushions and turkeys.
Granted I'm sure a lot has changed in the 12 or so years since I graduated high school but when I was in school we got a "this is what a period is, also this is what gettin' horny is" in middle school and then like, biology in high school covered procreation / straight sex in a very sterile and detached way.
You don't think saying bisexual people aren't attracted to trans or non binary people is a problem?
Funnily enough, this is what this specific episode is about: being confused about where you fit into the spectrum and why it ultimately is okay if you don't know.
Oh my god thank you for noticing. But it probably won't be any more because it's late, I'm tired, and I think I give up.
I will say I'm glad some people have learned things and I'm glad the show exists because it is so positive on so many things, and that's exactly what drives my disappointment when they screw up like this.
For at least one poster who identifies as bi, gender is still a focus of the equation. However, for pan, gender is not. It's only been explained like seven times in the last two pages.
The only thing problematic is that I apparently have never watched this show cause that clip was hilarious.
I don't think there is anything offensive, I do however now question if I'm in fact bi or pan because the more I think about it the more I wonder what definition id fall under... :l
I don't think there is anything offensive, I do however now question if I'm in fact bi or pan because the more I think about it the more I wonder what definition id fall under... :l
As a straight dude who never understood the difference, this is a great explanation. Thank you.
OP
OP
Because it has been asked for, here's a greater explanation of the issue with this clip.
With the food metaphor she brings up "some of you like tacos or burritos, and bisexuals like tacos and burritos, and I [being pan] like both and everything in-between", implying that those who are bisexual are unable to like "everything in-between", aka those who are non-binary, trans, etc.
Despite having the "bi" prefix, those who are bi can still like those who do not strictly conform to the two genders. Alavard explains the true distinction between being bi and pan better than I ever could.
My initial claims probably were a bit over-reactionary. I think this came out of a place of ignorance rather than malice. However, for a show that wants to focus on those who are LGBTQ+, I don't it's unreasonable to hold them to a high standard regarding common misconceptions. Especially in this case, I have personally been affected by this misconception before, so it hit particularly close to home for me.
With the food metaphor she brings up "some of you like tacos or burritos, and bisexuals like tacos and burritos, and I [being pan] like both and everything in-between", implying that those who are bisexual are unable to like "everything in-between", aka those who are non-binary, trans, etc.
Despite having the "bi" prefix, those who are bi can still like those who do not strictly conform to the two genders. Alavard explains the true distinction between being bi and pan better than I ever could.
My initial claims probably were a bit over-reactionary. I think this came out of a place of ignorance rather than malice. However, for a show that wants to focus on those who are LGBTQ+, I don't it's unreasonable to hold them to a high standard regarding common misconceptions. Especially in this case, I have personally been affected by this misconception before, so it hit particularly close to home for me.
So the difference between being bi and pan is in the number of people you are attracted to by gender? That seems arbitrary. I kind of understand the being attracted in different ways part but I can say that about people within a gender too, not attracted to all women or all men I'm attracted to in the same fixed way either.
OP
OP
Its hard to explain it, but personally, the attraction I feel to men as a whole is different (and considerably stronger) than the attraction I feel to women. Of course, it will depend on the person, but the general distinction is whether those general feelings change depending on gender.
Again, its a hard distinction to make, and I'm not the most informed on the viewpoint of those who identify as pan. I would love those who are pan to correct any misconceptions I myself may have, but from personal experience and the experiences of others I have seen, that's what I've determined the distinction to be.
What about it? Are bisexual people just attracted to men/women and pansexual people are attracted to humans no matter the status?
Same. It only recently dawned on me that I'm pan, so if we're still working out the nomenclature.... I'm not pissed at a show, at least attempting, in good faith, to introduce the terms.
Based off the thread title, I was thinking the video would show someone saying we're "greedy" or "indecisive".
Well plainly one forum poster should calibrate that for you and decide on the semantic morality for everyone as if it's settled law. Boom all set.
I don't myself take issue with the clip, but being correct in one instance doesn't serve as a denouncement of accusations of being incorrect in other instances.
User Banned (5 days): Being antagonistic and dismissive regarding LGBT identities
apparently bisexual means you're attracted to your own gender and all other genders.
so one faction "sees" gender, in relation to their attraction, and the other doesn't? I'm calling bullshit
There also seem to be quite a few NB/trans/pan/bi people who have commented that they're not sure what the issue is so perhaps you could understand where those opinions are coming from.
I know this isn't the specific issue at hand but if bisexual is such a poor descriptor for what it actually means should we even use it anymore? And if we are going to continue to use it I feel like there's some amount of leeway we should allow since it's oretty easy to understand why many would think bi means you like men and women. Hell im sure there are thousands and thousands of bi people who are using the term in exactly that way.
I honestly think OP and others irked by the clip have their hearts in the right place but yea... I think this thread is a perfect example of being too quick on the " time to cancel" draw. I am not sure why people are trying to enforce their own definitions as law when sexuality is such a constantly evolving, complex issue.
I would rather give Big Mouth points for actually introducing a straight (haha) up self-identifying Pan character vs. holding their feet to the fire for not getting it 100% correct according to the own personal definitions/POV some people have for the terms in question.
You do you, someone's own definition of these sexual terms may differ from the one you use for your own personal sexuality, that doesn't mean they are being "Phobic" or that they are attacking you.
That's a very mature way to handle this. I mean, you're blatantly erasing what what people have tried to describe about their own sexualites.
Yeah we should definitely be thankful when people aren't violently oppressive.
people have just decided that the original meaning of "bisexual" has changed and that's that. to be fair, the name has "bi" in it, so i understand wanting to change it. but actively trying to imply people who use the old name are exclusionary is weird.
it's not going to stop, better to abandon "bisexual" as a term on the basis that it DOES have an inaccurate connotation and ignore the people who want you to abandon it because they think it's hateful or some shit.
it's not going to stop, better to abandon "bisexual" as a term on the basis that it DOES have an inaccurate connotation and ignore the people who want you to abandon it because they think it's hateful or some shit.
Is this even a legit Netflix account?
Also it's a vulgar comedy show
South Park has been worse but is still airing
Also it's a vulgar comedy show
South Park has been worse but is still airing
Sure but when you're the type of dude that is constantly itching to point figures at "outrage culture" don't you take this opportunity and run with it??
And my post is absolutely directed towards them too. If you're not hurt by this clip? Great! Have some empathy and at least attempt to consider why some of us might be. Because this shit matters to us.
absolutely love to see a poster calling bullshit on another poster's sexual orientation. holy fuck.
I mean, someone still may have been validly taken aback by the clip.
This specifically. Just because I don't personally take offense doesn't invalidate the offense taken by others.
Fuck them for even trying and not pleasing everyone, right?
Hey I wanna say Alavard that definition for bisexuality makes wayyy more sense for me and it clicks in my head now
Wow that's a lot of dogwhistles there, 30-post burner
Oh, my apologies. I misread what you said about outrage culture.
Something that I think needs to be elucidated here is what the definition of gender means to people in this thread trying to explain the differences of these various sexualities. If gender is going to be the sticking point between the difference of bisexuality and pansexuality, it's important to know what that word means as it means different things to different people. In general, I'm reading the use of gender in this thread as pertaining to a person's particular gender identification, ie completely distinct from their biological sex. But I understand that my definition might not be correct, so I'd like some elaboration.
I am LGBT+
And I spend my time on several LGTB+ Reddits, forums and take my dose of Contrapoints and spend all day on Tumblr too, and this is pretty new info for me, so I don't blame the show writers for being a bit behind as well.
And I'm LGTB+ in a country (not America) that is even less up to date on this terminology or even willing to participate in it, so I've had to learn not to explode at every misinformed comment.