Idk what's funny about that post. You kinda need to have that sort of culture when you're operating at the scale Netflix does.
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Netflix CEO, Reed Hasting, Remote Work ‘a Pure Negative’
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I do like handling matters in person, but literally everything else about working remotely justifies my inability to do so on the days when I don't have to go into the office due to quarantine.
Time saved on the commute, getting dressed, going to get lunch, etc. Money saved on food, public transportation, dry cleaning. And I don't hate every moment of every day of the week from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. because I don't have to see the people who work at my office that often anymore. Plus, better internet, better monitors, better view.
It is definitely nice being able to sort things out person to person, but it's not worth it.
Time saved on the commute, getting dressed, going to get lunch, etc. Money saved on food, public transportation, dry cleaning. And I don't hate every moment of every day of the week from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. because I don't have to see the people who work at my office that often anymore. Plus, better internet, better monitors, better view.
It is definitely nice being able to sort things out person to person, but it's not worth it.
Here's the thing...for him and everyone at his level, yes, it's probably a net negative. I do see the benefit of having some corporate meetings, especially international and where there's a bit of mix-and-mingle that's necessary to those sorts of events.
That said, the top-level corporate experience is NOT the same as the grunt workers. We by and large have no real reason NOT to work at home, especially in scenarios like mine where I'm in an office with NONE of my project team members, so I'm working remotely with all of them even if I'm in my office. There's literally ZERO difference other than where I am.
That said, the top-level corporate experience is NOT the same as the grunt workers. We by and large have no real reason NOT to work at home, especially in scenarios like mine where I'm in an office with NONE of my project team members, so I'm working remotely with all of them even if I'm in my office. There's literally ZERO difference other than where I am.
I agree with some of this, but I wouldn't say it's awful.
Am I less productive? Probably.
Do I miss the person to person interaction? 100%
But am I more likely to enjoy my job when I have good mental health and a positive feeling about work? Definitely.
From manager standpoint, retaining good people is more important to me than a day to day productivity.
I work infinitely better from home than I do in an office, in the entertainment industry. I find it kind of baffling that Netflix, a company on the forefront of goddamn home streaming, would be so curmudgeonly about this. Aside from production level stuff, I really don't see much of a loss from not going into the office.
We have joked about this at my company. A lot of the higher-ups and bosses have been trying to get back into the office as soon as possible. Does a boss feel like a boss if he can't walk around a office and see butts in seats and have employees take notice saying, "oh...there's the boss!" Hahaha.
I also think a lot of these workaholics are realizing they actually have families now. lol.
I've been fortunate enough to have been working from home 2 days out of the 5 day work week before this all started.
Since mandatory WFH orders with COVID our productivity has actually been way up.
"It's probably six months after a vaccine. Once we can get a majority of people vaccinated, then it's probably back in the office."
I also think a lot of these workaholics are realizing they actually have families now. lol.
I've been fortunate enough to have been working from home 2 days out of the 5 day work week before this all started.
Since mandatory WFH orders with COVID our productivity has actually been way up.
I think he was joking when he said that. He followed up by saying...
"It's probably six months after a vaccine. Once we can get a majority of people vaccinated, then it's probably back in the office."
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That was a joke. He immediately followed it with a more realistic timeline.
I imagine I'd go in once a month to catch up with coworkers and go out to lunch
Otherwise, home. Not commuting 2-3 hours a day. Not paying for parking and gas and wear and tear. Being far more comfortable as my home office is bigger and better setup than my work office. Getting to actually pause work and cook lunch, not eating something microwaved or going out like im forced to in the office. Getting to take a break to do laundry or a quick chore when you arent being as productive.
But literally its the commuting. Gaining that much time back each day is an incomparable improvement to work life balance.
nailed it!
every boss ive ever had that didnt like remote work were micromanagers. Coincidently every boss i've had that told me their not a micromanager was 100% a dead giveaway that they are, in fact, a micromanager.
Yeah, I can't agree more. With my commute, I was spending 3 hours a day just driving.
this is 100% false, and if you need to be in person to build trust with them, then there is something wrong with you or your process of building trust.
Yup, my home office set up is way better than my office set up. Similarly, it's far less distracting at home. Weirdly enough I do miss the commute as the train ride was about 30 min each way. That's basically when I got most of my daily exercise hah.
We're one of those start ups with open offices and ping pong tables and shit and the noise is so fucking distracting. My apartment is comfortable and quiet.
Don't know what to tell this guy; seeing the complete opposite here for the most part.
Majority of the team is more productive WFH than in the office. Pretty sure it's because the C-Level Execs can no longer interrupt everyone's day with stupid ass town halls, inane micromeetings, etc.
Majority of the team is more productive WFH than in the office. Pretty sure it's because the C-Level Execs can no longer interrupt everyone's day with stupid ass town halls, inane micromeetings, etc.
No kidding.
I felt so much less crunch with my personal time working from home since I had an extra 9-10 hours a week and it also meant I could stay up later without risking a groggy morning. It was nice because my wife is always earlier to bed than me if I don't have to be up early, so some nights she'd got to bed and I'd get a chance for "me time" mostly to play some games. Now, not so much.
I WFH even before Covid started, so nothing really changed. It has some issues, but it easily beats going to the office.
oh yea thats another thing, I now sleep midnight to 8AM, which feels far more natural to me than 10:30 to 6:30 I used to sleep, so now Im more alert for the early hours of work
ahh i see it.
whats crazy is their are managers crazy enough to have people back that soon.
Not heavily, but I'd be lying if I said I hadn't benefitted financially from their growth.
Professionally, though, I work in tech and have benefitted a lot from Reed/Netflix's ideas when it comes to ways of working and culture. I've read a few books on how they develop products and have Reed's new book on pre-order. They're very opinionated about what they do and how they do it and it's clearly delivered results - I respect it a lot.
I also recognise that Netflix operates in a different fashion to most businesses out there, so Netflix will be uniquely impacted by work from home and remote in ways that other businesses won't.
Reed should probably have said that Netflix won't go remote instead of making broad generalisations about companies as a whole.
I'm with him... net negative for our company. We're large, and its been easy to see the break downs and challenges.
I have grown pretty frustrated with WFH, but that's likely just a symptom of everything else going on, and being deeply frustrated by being home/not being able to move about much. I think WFH is here to stay, and I would like to WFH some of the time... but I really need the option to get into an office. Being in an apartment, with limited space, I need a mental fucking barrier between home and life. It's all too close.
If I had an option, I think I would be 100% fine. But the palpable breakdown of my company has been unreal to watch.
I have grown pretty frustrated with WFH, but that's likely just a symptom of everything else going on, and being deeply frustrated by being home/not being able to move about much. I think WFH is here to stay, and I would like to WFH some of the time... but I really need the option to get into an office. Being in an apartment, with limited space, I need a mental fucking barrier between home and life. It's all too close.
If I had an option, I think I would be 100% fine. But the palpable breakdown of my company has been unreal to watch.
OP
OP
Are you me?
I do miss the interaction w/ co-workers, but my office has slow-ass computers and we can't bring in phones. I also value the flexibility of when I can take breaks, and do whatever.
I certainly don't miss having to get up early, get dressed, and take the many forms of public transit to get to the office either.
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I have kids. I have worked from home during ever phase of their lives. Not always easy. But the flexibility to take them to doctors appointments or to have lunch with them or to take a break and play with them is something I greatly value.
Less flippant than my earlier post in the thread, but WFH has been a net positive for most everyone I work with. Partially due to the fact that we're a nationwide company and the offices weren't always broken up by department so sometimes you were interacting with someone on your team that worked in a different state to begin with. The culture hasn't changed too much as a result and the folks I work with never really had large collaborative meetings anyway.
I know some co-workers are struggling but they're largely the people that would wander over to your desk and talk to you for 3 hours. I wouldn't mind heading into the office every once in a while--especially when the weather is nice--since my office is in the middle of a really nice part of the city and I can go sit in a park during my lunch break or stick around in the city after work.
Once the weather turns I will be incredibly happy to not have to wander into the cold, snow, or rain just to go to a train though lol.
I do think WFH would go over better if people had the freedom to work elsewhere, too. Being cooped up in the house all day sucks and can really mess with your sense of time. If you could go to a coffee shop to get some work done on occasion I think people wouldn't be so down on it.
I know some co-workers are struggling but they're largely the people that would wander over to your desk and talk to you for 3 hours. I wouldn't mind heading into the office every once in a while--especially when the weather is nice--since my office is in the middle of a really nice part of the city and I can go sit in a park during my lunch break or stick around in the city after work.
Once the weather turns I will be incredibly happy to not have to wander into the cold, snow, or rain just to go to a train though lol.
I do think WFH would go over better if people had the freedom to work elsewhere, too. Being cooped up in the house all day sucks and can really mess with your sense of time. If you could go to a coffee shop to get some work done on occasion I think people wouldn't be so down on it.
I think that WFH showed both its positives and negatives during this pandemic (at least in my company). At first productivity was up (I personally felt like I was probably working at 150% effectiveness).
But as time drew on, a bunch of things started showing:
1. Burnout. After five months it's becoming harder and harder to concentrate five days a week. My days are rather short at ~7 hours and I still find it difficult.
2. Debates have been reduced and the passage of information certainly has decreased. I agree that an in-person debate, or a quick consultation is much more effective. As a software developer, debugging with someone remotely is a nightmare.
3. It's not as much fun. Our work culture is pretty good and I have a decent amount of friends at work, so I enjoyed the breaks/banter. Now it's just pure wake up-work-go home. I'd rather lengthen my working time one hour and make it more fun than it being a trudge.
Personally, I think I might go for a day a week from home, when this is all over. That said, my commute is a five minute walk so obviously it's different for people who live really far from work.
But as time drew on, a bunch of things started showing:
1. Burnout. After five months it's becoming harder and harder to concentrate five days a week. My days are rather short at ~7 hours and I still find it difficult.
2. Debates have been reduced and the passage of information certainly has decreased. I agree that an in-person debate, or a quick consultation is much more effective. As a software developer, debugging with someone remotely is a nightmare.
3. It's not as much fun. Our work culture is pretty good and I have a decent amount of friends at work, so I enjoyed the breaks/banter. Now it's just pure wake up-work-go home. I'd rather lengthen my working time one hour and make it more fun than it being a trudge.
Personally, I think I might go for a day a week from home, when this is all over. That said, my commute is a five minute walk so obviously it's different for people who live really far from work.
Sounds kind of like a selfish dick. I imagine for a lot of managers, especially VP and above, it's a lot harder. Their lives are generally just meetings, managing people and interpersonal relationships. So WFH probably makes their life a lot harder to engage with people, have constructive discourses, and build relationships, but for a lot of your average workers it's likely been a major stress reliever. Not commuting, getting back hours to your day, working in your environment, it's nice.
With those people I work with a lot of people weren't happy at the start. Especially those with kids. They missed the social aspect of work, the routine, etc and couldn't wait to get back to the office. But after a few months everyone, even the most socially starved, all seems to have found a good routine for themselves and no longer have much interest in returning back to normal.
White collar work life is going to be a lot different post-COVID. It's not going to just stay like this, but a lot of people aren't going to be interested or willing to just wholesale return to the way things were.
With those people I work with a lot of people weren't happy at the start. Especially those with kids. They missed the social aspect of work, the routine, etc and couldn't wait to get back to the office. But after a few months everyone, even the most socially starved, all seems to have found a good routine for themselves and no longer have much interest in returning back to normal.
White collar work life is going to be a lot different post-COVID. It's not going to just stay like this, but a lot of people aren't going to be interested or willing to just wholesale return to the way things were.
Or you are underestimating the cultural differences in how trust is built, and in how many cultures that relies absolutely on person to person contact.
I'm from a culture where you built trust by lunching together, talking together, not working.
I'd never want a full time work from home job. Sure, no commuting would be nice but I want my work and home life separate. There's no break if when I clock out, I remain at "work" just not working.
Netflix’s Reed Hastings Deems Remote Work ‘a Pure Negative’
The streaming giant’s leader says not being able to get together in person, particularly internationally, makes doing business harder and that he is eager to have staff back in the office once a coronavirus vaccine is available.www.wsj.com
Lots of CEO hate remote work. I think it comes from their old school styles. A few of my favorite companies, Wordpress and Basecamp have full remote cultures.
I personally like a mix myself. Commutes suck, but I like the office energy.
IBM was recalling all their remote workers last year because they found after about a decade no real increased productivity and the teamwork actually took a hit.
It has been overwhelmingly positive for me, and probably for our company as well. I do miss seeing my coworkers as they are all great, and at times it becomes difficult to blur home vs work life of course, but overall it is better I think.
As someone who works for an organization that is largely remote, fully remote is better. There's an imbalance when some staff can meet daily face-to-face while others cannot. One thing I have "enjoyed" during this pandemic is the empathy and realizations my in-office co-workers are having about remote work.
WFH is nice if you can go out when you're not working.
But being stuck at home all day makes everything suck.
But being stuck at home all day makes everything suck.
again if you need to have lunch with someone to trust them, your process is jacked up.
i've delivered an entire 17 week project 100% remotely. Everyone was 100% happy with the project.
I've worked remotely for 5+ years now, and worked with people all over the US, with people in India as well as Europe. Do your job, communicate appropriately and everything will work fine. I dont need to be friends with someone to trust them. Nor do i want to talk to them or eat lunch with them to be able to do a project. Its called being a professional.
If you had asked him before he became rich and had access to any amenity he wants I bet he would have had a different opinion
This right here is the key reason for burnout in my job, period. This is not isolated to working from home though. I'm just in a satellite office so I NEVER interact face-to-face with my teammates. Combine that with the fact that most of my office mates don't even socialize all that much WITHOUT a pandemic and you can understand my excess salt at being asked to come back to the office.
This goes for multi-office businesses that don't bother to assign teams based on physical location as well.
I see the 2-3 hour commute repeated over and over again like it's a normal average...how far are you living from work?? 3 hours is like a small road trip, 200+ miles....
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For me being in the office is better so I have that fine determinant line between work and home life, when I was WFH for a while I couldn't help myself from answering emails/phone calls after hours and "oh this will just take a minute..." and etc etc.
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For me being in the office is better so I have that fine determinant line between work and home life, when I was WFH for a while I couldn't help myself from answering emails/phone calls after hours and "oh this will just take a minute..." and etc etc.
Successfully delivering a project with someone is not the same as trusting someone. You should read The Culture Map: Breaking Through the Invisible Boundaries of Global Business for understanding how trust is built in different cultures.
I take public transportation to work in a major city, so two buses and one subway, which takes about 90 minutes one way. So total travel time per day is indeed 3 hours.
I would work from home permanently if I could and/or only go in one or two times a week. I work a lot more efficiently at home and other departments aren't constantly trying to distract me with garbage.
In my case at least, it's 2 hours total, not one way...and I don't even hit a lot of traffic, so I could see sitting on a freeway and not traveling far but it still taking multiple hours in high traffic cities.
That said, I've known people that would FLY out in the morning and back in the evening for their jobs. That's a nasty commute process even if it's not a daily occurance...
I can appreciate his perspective.
I also work at home instead of an office, and don't get me wrong, there are positives, but I cannot wait to go back to an office setting. For me, this is as anti-social a setting can be, no conversation, lack of proper communication is the real killer, along with hardware/software issues that take time to be fixed. I am lucky to be working, however, I am slowly hating my job, and that isn't good for anyone.
I also work at home instead of an office, and don't get me wrong, there are positives, but I cannot wait to go back to an office setting. For me, this is as anti-social a setting can be, no conversation, lack of proper communication is the real killer, along with hardware/software issues that take time to be fixed. I am lucky to be working, however, I am slowly hating my job, and that isn't good for anyone.
Until I was WFH during the pandemic, I always disliked it due to my then-setup and the distractions I had, which compounded further when we had our kid. I've more or less co-opted my wife's desktop (that she honestly barely used) in our front office of the house to do this, so the setup issue was fixed. The distractions still exist, but I've tried to be diligent about staying in the office room as much as possible to avoid that.
The problem then comes down to the other elephant in the room: our actual office is downtown which, on a good day, is a 45 minute commute each way. Now that I'm more or less settled into WFH, I have this double edged sword of still wanting the office environment where I can physically talk to people and have actual, meaningful conversations that don't get across 100% over Slack, but that I have to eat up to 2 hours of my day just being on the highway in traffic to do it.
The problem then comes down to the other elephant in the room: our actual office is downtown which, on a good day, is a 45 minute commute each way. Now that I'm more or less settled into WFH, I have this double edged sword of still wanting the office environment where I can physically talk to people and have actual, meaningful conversations that don't get across 100% over Slack, but that I have to eat up to 2 hours of my day just being on the highway in traffic to do it.