If Insomniac can do it, other devs can do it. This is a management/resource allocation/studio culture problem.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Neil Druckmann's attitude towards TLOU2's reception is something to be admired (potential spoilers inside)
- Thread starter jett
- Start date
I'm not talking about just slow progress. What I'm saying is there doesn't need to be radical change in the entire industry for there to be radical change at one company.
Awesome to see. Fuck these trolls.
And, honestly, think it's super gross to mix this topic with crunch.
And, honestly, think it's super gross to mix this topic with crunch.
Curious as to the discourse around black characters in TLoU 1, if you recall.
That's real vile.Just in case some don't know what kind of stuff people are saying...
These people are literally doctoring tweets to try and make him seem like a rapist.
Wtf...Just in case some don't know what kind of stuff people are saying...
These people are literally doctoring tweets to try and make him seem like a rapist.
It's because people like to have a "gotcha" moment for internet points.
Someone please make a ND thread about their crunch culture and mods, please sticky it so everyone and flood in there and start the revolution and change they want at the studio.
Also it's always best to ignore and not let the trolls fester for too long but Neil is doing the right thing here. Their employees are having the worst time on the internet with the alt right bullshit and bullying. As a leader it's his job to protect his team first and foremost. The employees are unfortunately the ones who suffer, not Neil or Naughty Dog through all this bullshit.
Absolutely vile. Scum of the Earth really.Just in case some don't know what kind of stuff people are saying...
These people are literally doctoring tweets to try and make him seem like a rapist.
Fixed that for you. You can certainly say Druckmann is guilty by association but insinuating he said something he didn't is disingenuous.
I'm not looking for a "gotcha" moment, I'm just uncomfortable with people praising the vice president of a studio notorious for horrible amounts of crunch when he makes some snarky tweets, which I guess counts as him "protecting his team" now which.... lol, no.
How can you contribute something someone else said as the feelings of another person. How disingenuous of you. Someone could be reading this casually and think the completely wrong thing.
Then make a thread about it or request a title change to this one "notorious crunch enabler doubling down on Twitter trolls". This side conversation has taken over this entire topic.
Of course he's allowed to make these tweets. His employees could potentially be fed up with the work environment but how does it feel to work this hard and then have to get therapy because of constant bullying from incels online? They aren't mutually exclusive.
The studio needs to evolve from their crunch ways. But that's not an automatic free pass to shit on them especially when they are already being drowned in nonsense.
Yep. Some people are being intentionally disingenuous. The actual thing Neil said was incredibly respectful in tone and was more a commentary on how unproductive callouts can be. Especially when there was no malice on Jeff Cannata's part, even if it was cringe and tone deaf.
There shouldn't be another thread about this stuff just so you can conveniently ignore the bullshit Neil Druckmann has responsibility for.
By the same token being drowned in nonsense isn't an excuse to let them off for bad practices.
Your drowning out the harassment by making this all about everything BUT the harassment.
Lol this thread is barely even about the harassment itself, it's about Neil's response to it, which is some snarky tweets.
Oh trust me, it wouldn't be ignored.
Of course not. They have to change their ways. Even if it means getting just one title on PS5, they can build from an improved work culture so that their long term future is more secured due to employee retention and talent growth.
But that's not the point of this thread. If it is, let's request a title change or close it and restart.
The entire thrust of this thread from the outset is "boy, Neil Druckmann's great, isn't he?" There's not really anything to analyze here, it's entirely an appreciation thread. And any rule that would sideline the crunch conversation in favor of this thread just being a few pages of "wow, yeah, he really burned those twitter trolls, he's so amazing" would render the forum basically useless.
Yes... It's barely about the harassment because people are making it be about crunch. It was obvious that this thread was going to bring up the harassment stuff, because there wouldn't be the tweets if that wasn't happening.
At this point I think people just don't want to acknowledge it.
And oddly enough adding even more harassment.
Sucks for all the people who openly talk about loving to work at Naughty Dog. Guess they don't count!
Even the OP isn't about the harassment! It's 100% about snarky tweets.
It's not a publisher thing, it comes from each individual studio.
Media Molecule is well known for never crunching, that's why Dreams took 84 years.
So this thread's only for discussion of Druckmann's Epic troll ownage? Using the homophobic and sexist attacks from capital G Gamers™️ as a shield from discussing ND's horrible crunch practices, which Neil has yet to make a witty gif tweet regarding, is certainly a take.
The "but there's people who say they love working at Naughty Dog" defense is fun cause it presumes the workers there are allowed to talk about their negative experiences.
Like, yeah, of course there aren't that many people who openly talk about how they hate working there. If they did then they wouldn't be able to get a lot of work in the industry anymore.
They might not do crunch directly but you better believe that at least some of the third party companies they outsource to crunch.
That's the problem with industry crunch, even if you solve it at the individual developer level devs will just outsource that work to teams that will crunch their workers. It's why the entire industry needs to unionize.
OP
OP
Yes, 100% about snarky tweets.
jett said:
Some of you need to check yourselves. Why do you think this thread exists in the first place? WTF is wrong with some of you?
The opposite is happening, people are using crunch to disregard harassment. "He's a VP, he can take it" what?
I think it's fair to criticize crunch in this thread, but I would really like to know how many people actually skipped TLOU 2 because they don't want to support games that are known to have long crunch? The best way to fix crunch culture is to not support crunch culture by buying the games. I imagine that many people in this thread, who are vocal about criticizing crunch, didn't feel strongly enough about it to not support the game?
Last edited:
It's almost like these people don't actually care about the harassment.
If they didn't find it "fun", I'm sure they would just say nothing. And you can't legally forbade someone from saying they dislike their job.
If you feel like talking about crunch is derailing then report it, I think bad practices coming to light on any thread is fair play imo.
The game is breaking sales record so that would probably tell you enough
You think that matters? Or do you seriously think that, for example, the workers quoted in the article about crunch at ND wanted to stay anonymous for no good reason?
I said it wasn't the focus and it isn't. The harassment is a non-topic, present only to provide context for the tweets.
You want to make a thread about the harassment, make a thread about the harassment. That's not the thread that's been made. The subject line centers Neil Druckmann and the OP is basically entirely "look at these sick tweets" with one short bit about ongoing harassment to provide context for the tweets.
There's actual grown men who think this is all real. And that scares me. It scares me more that this is their response to a video game. You'd think they'd move on to something else without trying to drag others down with them....but nah
Who here's disregarding harassment? I'm seeing a lot more "This thread's not about crunch, ND's getting harassed, go make a new one."
You do realize the OP literally quoted himself to you showing that his OP does in fact, discuss the harassment?
Did you read what I just said? I've never said it wasn't mentioned. I said it wasn't the focus, because it's not. It's thrown off context so you can get to the meat of the post, the Druckmann tweets.
Honestly i dont get it why Ellie and Joel arent more muscular? All the shit they are pushing and running an climbing and clickers and runners they are fighting. I know it is a videogame but it bother me that Ellie wasnt more ripped, because she is strong as hell and fighting grown ass men one on one. As a father this is a dream that my daughter maybe as strong as her so i do not have to worry about her as much.
