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MoosetheMark

Member
May 3, 2019
690
I feel like a lot of journos are reluctant to cover this because they don't want to be seen among their peers as a bootlicker defending corporate games and the people who make them.

Meanwhile we get a bombshell article and a massive thread about a Sony PR rep emailing someone about a review so 🤷‍♀️
 
for real story spoilers, don't cli pick if you haven't play the game fully through.

what's really depressing is that Joel is not even a character worth the keyboard strokes for this type of reaction! He is the most basic ass post apocalyptic protagonist! A literal archetype!The only reason saw past that is cause of the acting & writing!
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
absolutely vile. no one deserves these messages, under any circumstance. i'd say these people should be ashamed of themselves but it's clear they're irredeemable at this point.
 

Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
7,903
Montreal
This campaign was in full swing long before Jason and Neil had their Twitter spat. It started as early as Ellie and Dina kissing in one of the older trailers, and then blew up when the leaks and spoilers. I don't think it's fair to say that Jason's reporting was used to springboard into any campaign since it was already well underway, even if it was used by some people.

Oh yea, it was definitely already underway. By springboard I meant people leapt from talking complaining about Naughty Dog's crunch to the anti-LGBT/etc other forms of harassment. I've noticed in on Twitter that someone brings up the crunch as their first sentence and then nests a hateful tirade in the rest of the post.

That's what I meant by springboard, not that Jason started this in any way.

But if you go back and look at their twitter argument today, you'll notice a lot of what I mentioned above. And as I said, it's depressing as fuck that people are tying up a really big industry issue with pure hate.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
I think the issue with Jim Sterling is not about him encouraging or not hate, it's about his silence about all this mess. For someone so quick to make a 15 minutes video about a single tweet, it's just weird. Also his "ND deserved the leaks" video was an embarrassing take and didn't help at all.

You're absolutely right. I was a big fan of Jim but my respect for him drops by every minute he's staying quiet about this shit.
 

Temascos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,504
I feel like a lot of journos are reluctant to cover this because they don't want to be seen among their peers as a bootlicker defending corporate games and the people who make them.

Meanwhile we get a bombshell article and a massive thread about a Sony PR rep emailing someone about a review so 🤷‍♀️

The thing is, they can approach it at the angle of "How will this affect games from developers of all sizes?"

This whole thing is about intimidation, as if the harassers are saying "If we can do this to Naughty Dog, imagine what we can do TO YOU."
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,136
I dont even know the amount of hate they getting since ive blackout of every ND/tlou thing
In that case, there's been a massive hate campaign since April when there was a huge leak mixed with fake rumors and its only gotten worse post release. I would recommend that you continue your blackout until you play the game. Also, that was a fake spoiler in the tweet, so you're still good.
 

ElephantShell

10,000,000
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,912
There are people not going as far as the image in the tweet but still feel the need to follow this up with "well the game was bad though" or "well the writing was bad though" as if that even fucking matters. Game could be literal unplayable broken garbage and this would still be completely unacceptable.
 

Lord Fanny

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
25,953
Just time to put this thread on ignore. It's so obvious people are just using this thread about a serious topic to push their own agendas against certain people. Sad, but this is the state of most TLoU2 threads.
 

Stat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,158
Well, I hope Druckmann sees the positive comments too. It's an incredible game. Loved the story.

Objectively, might be the best game of all time from a story to mechanics to graphics - a whole package. (Not saying its my favourite game).
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,809
The stuff I hear online/Era around this issue in supposedly liberal spaces basically boils down to" Sure ND is getting death threats but they're not angels in this situation."
 
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HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,096
Peru
Just time to put this thread on ignore. It's so obvious people are just using this thread about a serious topic to push their own agendas against certain people. Sad, but this is the state of most TLoU2 threads.
Huh? What is this agenda you're talking about?
The stuff I hear online/Era around this issue in supposedly liberal spaces basically boils down to" Sure ND is getting death threats but they're not angels in this situations."
Normally I'd be like "it's only a few idiots, nothing important so let's focus on actual issues with the company or people involved", but it's very clear by now that shit has gotten out of control with the hate towards TLoU 2 and ND, it's no longer "just a few people", it's a whole campaign that keeps being boosted by YouTubers and their need for clicks, it's actually become the most pressing concern regarding ND in my opinion.
 

Strafer

The Flagpole is Wider
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,360
Sweden
I don't know how he does it but this stuff would be enough to break me and quit the industry forever.
 

TheLastYoshi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
877
wow, i didn't think last of us fans (you can't even call them that) would react so much worse than star wars fans....
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,558
User Banned (3 Days): Hostility
Just time to put this thread on ignore. It's so obvious people are just using this thread about a serious topic to push their own agendas against certain people. Sad, but this is the state of most TLoU2 threads.

If you want to keep pretending Jim Sterling is not involved with the incentivization of this behavior, that's your perogative... but fuck of with this ass backwards "but crunch tho, why you telling me I can't criticize" nonsense.
 

SnatcherHunter

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
13,479
EOD all that matters to publishers is revenue.

And The Last of Us Part II is making a lot of money.
No this won't stop people from creating games with gay or trans characters in them. This isn't the first piece of media to be attacked by shit heads on the internet.
They won't let this fuckers win.. I'm sure ND will continue to make amazing games like TLOU 2.
Can't see that happening, especially when critically and commercially it's doing so well.

If anything, they might tab into this turbulent time to create something even more complex.
Good to know!! It is disheartening to see this to be honest. I can't express the way I truly feel.
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,325
I wonder how this will affect Neil or even the actors going forward?

We might not be getting games like these ever again.

I doubt he will let this influence him as an artist. It must be tiring, but it's also liberating in a way - do you really want these guys as your audience? Anyway, these are cowards who are not worthy of attention, let alone changing one's creative vision.

As for Sony, sales speak much louder than some malicious idiots online. So, in both cases, I'm not worried. Hope we get a Part III.
 

EJS

The Fallen - Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
9,176
People posting fake spoilers in the comments clearly haven't even played the game. Imagine wishing death upon someone because of something you heard online about a video game.
 

Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,132
Some people are taking this hobby wayyy too seriously.

I disliked the story A LOT but I have moved on, at the end of the day it's still a game and it is their own game and they have every right to write their own story even if you don't like it.
 

Twenty7kvn

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,749
Good to know!! It is disheartening to see this to be honest. I can't express the way I truly feel.
It differently sucks people can be so hateful and closed-minded sometimes. But it's become easier to be who you truly are in this world and to express that in your medium. All this will do is galvanize people and you'll get more inclusion in media.
 

taepoppuri

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,185
Bunches of losers, they don't even get their story fact straight... Spreading hate behind the keyboard is all they can do.

Game is great. When it win GoTY these losers would be drown in the salt.
 

cnorwood

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,343
But being critical of a company and some of their practices is not encouraging hate. Jim is not out here encouraging people to attack the devs of Naughty Dog or anyone involved in this game to say this is just a lie.
People trying to mix Jim Sterlings criticisms of the industry into this is laughable and they obviously dont listen to his words they just hear an angry tone about something they love
 

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,122
A huge amount of these people didn't even get the game, and a huge amount that didn't even finish it. Some didn't even play the first game.
Yep.
The deal with these fuckheads is that none of them are actually concerned about the quality of the game/the story/etc, they just want to spread hate.

Game is great. When it win GoTY these losers would be drown in the salt.
They'll probably have found someone new to target by then. Let's be real here: this is a movement specifically created to tear people down.
 

Lys Skygge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,745
Arizona
Fucking disgusting.

It's crazy to me that journalists are willing to add fuel to the fire, but are completely silent when it comes to the harassment of developers.

SPEAK THE FUCK UP AND DENOUNCE THIS SHIT
 

Zampano

The Fallen
Dec 3, 2017
2,234
Fucking gross. What's nearly is bad is all the people using that thread to "Yeah death threats are a bit OTT but here's my hot take on why the story of TLOU2 sucks."
 

Alexhex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,881
Canada


Jim played a part in this by making video after video after video about Neil Druckmann, TLOU2, etc. He constantly uses the framing that these are "bad people". That Neil Druckmann is "a bad person"

Troy cleared up his stance on Alannah Pierce's podcast that his view on telling people games are too long is "let developers make long games if they want", but Jim in his "I need content" mindset decided lets just make a video where I portray Troy Baker as an idiot.

Jim relies on villainizing people in order to make his videos. He relies on anger and ridicule of others to make his videos. If you want to keep pretending his hands are clean because "he only criticized legitimate things" and then trying to make worthless blanket statements of "are you saying people aren't allowed to criticize" shows your agenda.

Reporting on crunch isn't a problem, but Jim constantly frames organizations, individuals, as targets for harassment. He is enabling it.

I don't see how that makes troy's tweet any less dumb??
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
But being critical of a company and some of their practices is not encouraging hate. Jim is not out here encouraging people to attack the devs of Naughty Dog or anyone involved in this game to say this is just a lie.
As someone who was a big fan of Jims until his recent video on the ND leaks and me taking some time to reflect on him and the games industry, let me try to explain from my perspective.

Jim is great at calling out companies for shitty things and I usually agree with all of his points.

The problem is though that his videos tend to be pure rage at each subject he covers. This is understandable since the subjects are serious but what he fails to do is to draw any sort of action that people can take to improve things.

Because of this, all he effectively does is whip up his audience into fit's of rage and then leave them to their own devices with absolutely no constructive direction.

He also has a tendency to very rarely point his rage towards the games industries audience. He might do a video where he dresses up and mocks ridiculous comments every now and then or he will take 5 seconds in a video to say don't be shit but ultimately that isn't enough to prevent your audience from potentially taking the wrong messages away from your videos.

I mentioned the ND leaks video he did and what really upset me was that on the discussion of the leaks negatively affecting ND staff, he basically said "ND staff don't deserve to be hurt from these leaks, but ND as a company does so oh well". For someone who has prided themselves on looking out for people, this is a rather disturbing stance to take as it completely ignores the hate and damage it was causing staff, all so he could focus on attacking ND for cruch culture.

Now is Jim one of the main problems in the industry? No, but he plays his part just like Angry Joe does or any other youtuber who makes their living shitting on everything that will get them clicks does.

Again, most of Jims arguments are fine but the manner in which he does it, long term, is probably not healthy for the industry as its just another rage filled youtuber with a following of millions who comes on every week to tell us who to hate with no constructive actions to take.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,491
Bunches of losers, they don't even get their story fact straight... Spreading hate behind the keyboard is all they can do.

Game is great. When it win GoTY these losers would be drown in the salt.
It's going to break sales records and rake in tons of awards. I hope somehow Ashley and Laura can even split the best performance. That will piss these losers off even more.
 

Terra Firma

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,235
I don't get it.

It was people like these crybabies that used to be all about "the artist's vision" and used to be against all "censorship" when developers tried to accommodate for minorities by changing their games to be less offensive to minority groups. Now, they're all having a hissy fit over the developers' vision.
 

azfaru

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,273
I know it's easy to say that "hey it's the internet, what do you expect"... but man I am so not normalized by this shit at all, and may the world not be normalized by it too.

These are all just people who read the leaks and didn't play the game anyway. Or just saw a stream of it or something. ALL THIS is making me love the game even more <3

NEIL FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE GET OFF THE INTERNET. I hope the team stays strong!
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,120
I don't get it.

It was people like these crybabies that used to be all about "the artist's vision" and used to be against all "censorship" when developers tried to accommodate for minorities by changing their games to be less offensive to minority groups.

it's almost like their position is disingenous and doesn't hold up to the slightest of scrutiny because they are actually insecure, fragile man babies who have wrapped their entire pathetic and empty existence/identity around video games or other forms of "nerd culture"
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,809
wow, i didn't think last of us fans (you can't even call them that) would react so much worse than star wars fans....
Its all the same group. Its these weird culture warriors that form oppressed Voltron whenever idealized white male masculinity is challenged in pop culture spaces. Honestly, these people do not care about Joel Miller, Peter Parker, Luke Skywalker etc as characters in a story. They just care about them as symbols of superiority they can project themselves on to feel better about themselves.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,558
As someone who was a big fan of Jims until his recent video on the ND leaks and me taking some time to reflect on him and the games industry, let me try to explain from my perspective.

Jim is great at calling out companies for shitty things and I usually agree with all of his points.

The problem is though that his videos tend to be pure rage at each subject he covers. This is understandable since the subjects are serious but what he fails to do is to draw any sort of action that people can take to improve things.

Because of this, all he effectively does is whip up his audience into fit's of rage and then leave them to their own devices with absolutely no constructive direction.

He also has a tendency to very rarely point his rage towards the games industries audience. He might do a video where he dresses up and mocks ridiculous comments every now and then or he will take 5 seconds in a video to say don't be shit but ultimately that isn't enough to prevent your audience from potentially taking the wrong messages away from your videos.

I mentioned the ND leaks video he did and what really upset me was that on the discussion of the leaks negatively affecting ND staff, he basically said "ND staff don't deserve to be hurt from these leaks, but ND as a company does so oh well". For someone who has prided themselves on looking out for people, this is a rather disturbing stance to take as it completely ignores the hate and damage it was causing staff, all so he could focus on attacking ND for cruch culture.

Now is Jim one of the main problems in the industry? No, but he plays his part just like Angry Joe does or any other youtuber who makes their living shitting on everything that will get them clicks does.

Again, most of Jims arguments are fine but the manner in which he does it, long term, is probably not healthy for the industry as its just another rage filled youtuber with a following of millions who comes on every week to tell us who to hate with no constructive actions to take.

That's basically it.

Jim whips his audience into a frenzy and then leaves them to their own devices. He is not interested in making videos about things he enjoys or good things in the industry, because he even says "he doesn't do positive videos because the views aren't there" after his video praising the Yakuza series didn't perform well.

Just because he isn't pandering to gamers with a capital G doesn't mean he isn't still pandering to gamers.
 

danhz

Member
Apr 20, 2018
3,231
In that case, there's been a massive hate campaign since April when there was a huge leak mixed with fake rumors and its only gotten worse post release. I would recommend that you continue your blackout until you play the game. Also, that was a fake spoiler in the tweet, so you're still good.
Yeye, when the spoilers happened i basically muted everything. I looked months ago a thread of lesbians in ma videogame, gamers rise up shit, but i see its getting worse, i am halfway, a little bit more of it, hopefully I can finish it fast.
Cant imagine how bad they have to be feeling with the comments he posted tho.
 

Terra Firma

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,235
While it by no means Justifies these messages but Neil Druckmann recently said in an interview with the Washington post that the game was partially inspired by his desire to kill Palestinians.




So forgive me if I have little sympathy for the guy.

Yeah, I don't like Druckmann and his dehumanizing view of Palestinians, either (and contrary to the tweet, he was 22 years old, not a teen so you can't even blame his hatred on some weak excuse like the foolishness of youth), but he is being attacked for being Jewish, not for being a racist.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,351
While it by no means Justifies these messages but Neil Druckmann recently said in an interview with the Washington post that the game was partially inspired by his desire to kill Palestinians.




So forgive me if I have little sympathy for the guy.


The feeling faded, though. Eventually, he looked back and felt "gross and guilty" for his intense feelings. With "The Last of Us Part II," he wanted to explore that emotional tumult on a didactic level.

But don't let that get in the way of you justifying death threats.