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Shaun Solo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,079
I really feel like all the people that go on a righteous crusade about "crunch" have never had anything but a 9-5 job.

In every industry I have ever been in we have the same thing as crunch. When I was at an ad agency and was in charge of brand development I would have to work 15 hour days at a time for a month stretch. When I progressed to a production I would be working on filming and editing that would last anywhere between 5-6 months with 12-14 hour days and when filming all weekends. When I became art director it was waayyyy more but I was making stupid money and loved what I did. After I got out of the Ad space I moved on to Visual FX mostly compositing. When we were editing I was working all 7 days though it was only about 10 hour days with the occasional 12. After that I moved into social media marketing and my time was more manageable. Now I'm a mortgage broker (so random) and I work all day till I go to sleep with breaks in between. This is all fine to me because I picked these jobs because I know what I want the money for plus I've had a passion for all of them. I think things need to be done to change the industry dramatically but its an incredibly difficult thing to do and the only reason its such a big deal in the video game space cause it cross the culture line to a lot of people that really don't work in industry's where this is common.
Yes, worker exploitation is not unique to the gaming industry. Not to mention that your situation of making stupid money (I assume just from the base wage and not all the OT) is not the norm for the vast majority of workers. Like do you think when crunch is being reported it's the department heads that are talking to journalists? It's everyone else at the bottom of the totem pole.

Also, I work in the industry and have worked 24 hour plus shifts and 80 hour weeks for months at a time. I am vehemently against crunch and the culture that upholds it.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,145
I really feel like all the people that go on a righteous crusade about "crunch" have never had anything but a 9-5 job.
It's pretty obvious, right?
Btw, you're now the problem. Its your fault this is acceptable.

To add on a bit, I can't even count the number of people I've worked with or employed who didn't have it in them to make it through a regular 40hr work week. When you work on a team and you do 6hrs of work in an 8hr day, someone has to pick up the slack. This is a huge part of the issue yet no one talks about it. I'm doing a ton of extra works cause Jimmy can't keep it together. Our 3 month project is now 2 weeks late. The client isn't happy. It's all on management and if they let Jimmy go, someone somewhere will see him as being done wrong.

Yes people would never lie about how they're treated at work.
Ah yes. Believe all workers, except those who aren't "suffering".
 
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takriel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,221
Lol it absolutely is as you are all proving my point. I can't think of one adult I know that would complain about this because they all have jobs that require a lot of effort. Go talk to your parents and ask them how hard they work at their jobs. Shoot call your local real estate agent and ask how many hours she puts in every week. Its a ridiculous stance taken by people that have no work history
I'm sorry but who do you think you are? Having a good work-life balance has been shown time and again to lead to better health. And yes, I know what I'm talking about. I'm a psychologist who has experienced both 10-12-hour work days as a PhD student and now 8-hour work days as a therapist. I know what is more healthy for me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
Then let that post go already and engage in the crunch discussion.

Discussions a two way street. I let it go once folks stopped defending it.

As for crunch, I appreciate Neil's larger conversation goal here even though I disagree with some of his finer points. It's good to see that he acknowledges a failure in tackling the problem and that continuous attempts to tackle the problem are being made, including bringing in outside parties.

But of course, that doesn't diminish from the already existing impact of crunch and the failures to stymie it. From personal experience working in a field where crunch and overwork is the default mode, I suspect that tackling this problem at ND will require several years of commitment, with outside intervention, to weed out and disincentivize the spread of what generally tends to become unintentional toxic work practices brought on by good intentions.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
It's pretty obvious, right?
Btw, you're now the problem. Its your fault this is acceptable.

To add on a bit, I can't even count the number of people I've worked with or employed who didn't have it in them to make it through a regular 40hr work week. When you work on a team and you do 6hrs of work in an 8hr day, someone has to pick up the slack. This is a huge part of the issue yet no one talks about it. I'm doing a ton of extra works cause Jimmy can't keep it together.


Ah yes. Believe all workers, except those who aren't "suffering".
Oh Oh victim blaming now!!!


I think that gives me Bingo!
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,558
Yes people would never lie about how they're treated at work.

Where were you putting in all this effort when the crunch stories about RT came out and the fact Monty Oum was known for working overnight and basically doing 20hr work days because he never viewed his job as "work"?

This is why I hate "crunch" topics because most people actually don't give a shit about it when its "product or person they like", and it's only an issue when it's "product or person I don't like"
 

Bruceleeroy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,381
Orange County
I'm sorry but who do you think you are? Having a good work-life balance has been shown time and again to lead to better health. And yes, I know what I'm talking about. I'm a psychologist who has experienced both 10-12-hour work days as a PhD student and now 8-hour work days as a therapist. I know what is more healthy for me.

Good for you pick a job where you don't have to work a lot of hours. This is not an unknown quantity. I had a friend at ILM that had insane hours of overtime but guess what ALL HE WANTED TO DO WAS WORK AT ILM It was his choice. Yes it would be awesome if we lived in a world where every corporation could tell their stockholders that they were extending production times by a year to allow for more home / work life balance but you let me know when they all agree to do that.
 

Musician

Member
Oct 29, 2017
298
Sweden
You can compare it to any industry you want. It exists everywhere because *shock* if you work more at your job you can turn out a product or service faster than the competition. That my friend is called capitalism and it is pretty much the motto of this country.

And it's literally Killing the population. The sort of attitude you're representing right now is the reason I could never move to the US. The funny thing is that companies from countries with more worker rights actually CAN compete with your "superproductive" workforce. Go figure.

On topic - Naughty Dog is one of the developers with the most clout and most talent out of any developers out there right now. TLOU2 was bound to sell millions upon millions of copies and make tons of money. If there's anyone who can stand up for their workers and say "We aren't doing that shit anymore. The game is done when it's done" it's them. The mealy mouthed response from Neil just makes my blood boil. The fact that some people actually want to work themselves half to death is PART OF THE GOD DAMNED PROBLEM and a symptom of just how far deep down game development has sunk, not something to be used as an excuse for not doing better.
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
No ones making anybody listen to them. If you think context will give Niel a better case then give it to us and stop bitching.

Also lol "I didn't say we shouldn't talk about crunch but fuck this guy for making it about crunch."

So damn transparent.
Man that must be some tasty ass Kool-Aid.
Oh well that totally justifies it then.
Yes people would never lie about how they're treated at work.

You are doing shit ass job with creating a good discussion in this thread with these lazy ass posts. What is your angle here? If you are going to respond to someone at least put in a bit of effort because the topic being discussed is serious enough to warrant a passionate reaction from you. I mean wtf are you even going on about in some of these posts?
 

Twenty7kvn

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,749
You can compare it to any industry you want. It exists everywhere because *shock* if you work more at your job you can turn out a product or service faster than the competition. That my friend is called capitalism and it is pretty much the motto of this country.
I think I'm going to close this thread and go lay down for a few.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,356
I can't think of one adult I know that would complain about this because they all have jobs that require a lot of effort. Go talk to your parents and ask them how hard they work at their jobs. Shoot call your local real estate agent and ask how many hours she puts in every week. Its a ridiculous stance taken by people that have no work history

Are you saying dangerous workplace crunch doesn't exist at all, or just that you don't buy into it being measured by (just) the number of hours worked? Your post comes across as dismissing the whole idea of crunch as a threat to workers, in a simplistic way. I'm assuming there's more to it.
 

Bruceleeroy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,381
Orange County
You are doing shit ass job with creating a good discussion in this thread with these lazy ass posts. What is your angle here? If you are going to respond to someone at least put in a bit of effort because the topic being discussed is serious enough to warrant a passionate reaction from you. I mean wtf are you even going on about in some of these posts?

BOOM you can definitely ignore that one.
 
May 17, 2018
3,454
Because openly criticizing one of the most beloved video game companies will surely lead to you living a good life devoid of any problems such as finding a new job in the industry, angry fan trolling or death threats. No, that's not naive and wishful thinking at all.

Jonathan Cooper seems to be totally fine.

Yes people would never lie about how they're treated at work.

Are you implying they're being forced to tweet about enjoying their work on their personal accounts?

Yes it would be awesome if we lived in a world where every corporation could tell their stockholders that they were extending production times by a year to allow for more home / work life balance but you let me know when they all agree to do that.

Didn't you know? Financing your projects is *never* part of the issue. Just push dates out forever with no ROI.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,558
You are doing shit ass job with creating a good discussion in this thread with these lazy ass posts. What is your angle here? If you are going to respond to someone at least put in a bit of effort because the topic being discussed is serious enough to warrant a passionate reaction from you. I mean wtf are you even going on about in some of these posts?

It's incredibly transparent "I don't like TLOU2 or Neil Druckmann, I am going to use crunch to smokescreen my actual intent"

I called him out on this, because I never saw him complaining about crunch and work conditions for a thing he actually likes when those issues were documented (and the company made steps to fix)

It's so fucking transparent. Seeing his behavior in TLOU threads versus the OT for the thing he likes.
 

Bruceleeroy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,381
Orange County
And it's literally Killing the population. The sort of attitude you're representing right now is the reason I could never move to the US. The funny thing is that companies from countries with more worker rights actually CAN compete with your "superproductive" workforce. Go figure.
s sunk, not something to be used as an excuse for not doing better.

Please tell me its not Greece because ehhhh I have something to tell you.
Also killing the population lol did you read that in The SUN.
 

dosh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,252
Yes people would never lie about how they're treated at work.
Can you actually engage in the conversation instead of just making snarky remarks?

I'm working in an industry that runs pretty much the same way as video games and what Neil says in the video is true. Mandatory crunch is bad, yes. A corporate culture built around working super hard all the time is equally bad. But you will meet a lot of people who want to work that hard. And who will be unhappy when you tell them "that's it, you're going home, I don't want to see you here until monday." You have to take very specific measures to fight against that, and I personnaly failed spectacularly a number of times at making my team stop working.

And you can either put your entire trust in really good articles about crunch by journalists like Schreier, or accept to open a little bit to the conversation and the possibility that things are not always that clear cut or black and white. Because there are nuances.
 

Bruceleeroy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,381
Orange County
Jonathan Cooper seems to be totally fine.



Are you implying they're being forced to tweet about enjoying their work on their personal accounts?



Didn't you know? Financing your projects is *never* part of the issue. Just push dates out forever with no ROI.

This whole crunch thing has become for most (not all) an excuse to rail against the game that is such a hot point right now. The fact that people blame Neil at all shows how naive they are. If you think he even as director has any real control of the timelines and conditions his team has to deal with you have no concept of management.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,558
Can you actually engage in the conversation instead of just making snarky remarks?

I'm working in an industry that runs pretty much the same way as video games and what Neil says in the video is true. Mandatory crunch is bad, yes. A corporate culture built around working super hard all the time is equally bad. But you will meet a lot of people who want to work that hard. And who will be unhappy when you tell them "that's it, you're going home, I don't want to see you here until monday." You have to take very specific measures to fight against that, and I personnaly failed spectacularly a number of times at making my team stop working.

And you can either put your entire trust in really good articles about crunch by journalists like Schreier, or accept to open a little bit to the conversation and the possibility that things are not always that clear cut or black and white. Because there are nuances.

You can ignore him. You were in a bad faith argument.

He is only complaining about crunch because he has B.E.C for Neil Druckmann.

He never complained about crunch for a product he actually likes.
 
Mar 18, 2020
2,434
This whole crunch thing has become for most (not all) an excuse to rail against the game that is such a hot point right now. The fact that people blame Neil at all shows how naive they are. If you think he even as director has any real control of the timelines and conditions his team has to deal with you have no concept of management.

You work in game dev?

Directors do indeed cause a lot of extra work.
 

Bruceleeroy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,381
Orange County
You work in game dev?

Directors do indeed cause a lot of extra work.

No I don't how is it different than being the director of film / media which is what I'm familiar with

You can ignore him. You were in a bad faith argument.

He is only complaining about crunch because he has B.E.C for Neil Druckmann.

He never complained about crunch for a product he actually likes.

Exactly I suspect thats the case more often than not.
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
BOOM you can definitely ignore that one.
It's incredibly transparent "I don't like TLOU2 or Neil Druckmann, I am going to use crunch to smokescreen my actual intent"

I called him out on this, because I never saw him complaining about crunch and work conditions for a thing he actually likes when those issues were documented (and the company made steps to fix)

It's so fucking transparent. Seeing his behavior in TLOU threads versus the OT for the thing he likes.

Yeah might be a new addition to the ignore list.

Crunch can be devastating if not management properly. I'm in academia. I would know this well lol. But at this point what is even the discussion about here.

Neil admitted there is a problem --> Good
Neil said they couldn't address it properly this time around --> Good again that he admitted to trying to take some steps but still ultimately coming up short
Then said they will do a better job with the next game/s --> Good to hear. Time will tell if it actually happens.
Said they will get outside help too --> Excellent as I mentioned before. Sometimes changing a culture requires an external stimulus/guidance. Again, the results will tell how effective this was, in the future.

Ok so now what? Do people think addressing excessive crunch (I say excessive because I genuinely don't think it is possible to have zero crunch. Would be pleasantly surprised to be proven otherwise of course) is like hitting a switch or un;ugging the crunch plug? It is going to be a time consuming long term project. What we are hearing now is good. That is all we can expect at 'this' point.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
You are doing shit ass job with creating a good discussion in this thread with these lazy ass posts. What is your angle here? If you are going to respond to someone at least put in a bit of effort because the topic being discussed is serious enough to warrant a passionate reaction from you. I mean wtf are you even going on about in some of these posts?
I'm sorry I don't feel like putting my full brainpower against such stellar debates such as "you anime avatars need to shut up because this is how it is and there's nothing you can do about it." Like what exactly do you want me to say to that exactly?

Go tell Jason Schreier that he should just stop reporting on the game industry because "that's just how it is"
It's incredibly transparent "I don't like TLOU2 or Neil Druckmann, I am going to use crunch to smokescreen my actual intent"

I called him out on this, because I never saw him complaining about crunch and work conditions for a thing he actually likes when those issues were documented (and the company made steps to fix)

It's so fucking transparent. Seeing his behavior in TLOU threads versus the OT for the thing he likes.
Weren't you just fucking bitching about toxicity in the community? I'm so sorry I don't have time to complain at every sing time a company acts like shit.

I'm sorry I said mean things about precious Naughty Dog, oh please forgive me for such a grievous crime.
 

Musician

Member
Oct 29, 2017
298
Sweden

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
User banned (1 month): Trolling, hostility and thread derailment over a series of posts. Prior bans for the same.
You can ignore him. You were in a bad faith argument.

He is only complaining about crunch because he has B.E.C for Neil Druckmann.

He never complained about crunch for a product he actually likes.
You can either talk to my face or you can piss off. How about you let me speak for myself?
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,558
I'm sorry I don't feel like putting my full brainpower against such stellar debates such as "you anime avatars need to shut up because this is how it is and there's nothing you can do about it." Like what exactly do you want me to say to that exactly?

Go tell Jason Schreier that he should just stop reporting on the game industry because "that's just how it is"

Weren't you just fucking bitching about toxicity in the community? I'm so sorry I don't have time to complain at every sing time a company acts like shit.

I'm sorry I said mean things about precious Naughty Dog, oh please forgive me for such a grievous crime.

But you have the time to complain about Neil Druckmann, huh?
 

AbsoluteZ3R0

Member
Feb 5, 2019
885
Lol it absolutely is as you are all proving my point. I can't think of one adult I know that would complain about this because they all have jobs that require a lot of effort. Go talk to your parents and ask them how hard they work at their jobs. Shoot call your local real estate agent and ask how many hours she puts in every week. Its a ridiculous stance taken by people that have no work history
You sound very bitter. Overworking for decades does that you. You start convincing yourself the more you work the your life is worth, the bigger the bank account the greater you are. As you grow old, you will start questioning if all the work you did was really worth it. On you deathbed, you will wish that you had spent more time with your loved ones than work dusk till dawn.
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
I'm sorry I don't feel like putting my full brainpower against such stellar debates such as "you anime avatars need to shut up because this is how it is and there's nothing you can do about it." Like what exactly do you want me to say to that exactly?

Go tell Jason Schreier that he should just stop reporting on the game industry because "that's just how it is"

Weren't you just fucking bitching about toxicity in the community? I'm so sorry I don't have time to complain at every sing time a company acts like shit.

I'm sorry I said mean things about precious Naughty Dog, oh please forgive me for such a grievous crime.

oh no...not your FULL brainpower!! What will we ever do?!

Dude...I didn't even quote your post to the anime related comment you are referring to here. You are being extremely dismissive on detailed posts with shit like 'drinking koolaid'. Why is it koolaid? Again why are you so mad here? What are you trying to accomplish? What is your core argument?

Is your core argument that crunch is a serious issue that should be discussed? I mean people are discussing it right now while giving their different views on the issue. So that goal is met. You should be happy. It is being discussed seriously.

Maybe walk away from the thread a bit and come back later once you have cooled off.
 

abrack

Unshakable Resolve
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,785
DFW
Crazy how a very small part of this long video discussion has completely dominated the thread because one post took a small snippet out of context. This was not a video about crunch.
 

Gans

Member
Oct 27, 2017
691
You sound very bitter. Overworking for decades does that you. You start convincing yourself the more you work the your life is worth, the bigger the bank account the greater you are. As you grow old, you will start questioning if all the work you did was really worth it. On you deathbed, you will wish that you had spent more time with your loved ones than work dusk till dawn.
Nothing against your statement but damn we reaching some deep stuff when we have 1 h and 26 minutes to talk about related to TLOU2 design lol, gold medal on thread derailed podium (Again, not this post in particular)

I'm aware my post is not helping the discussion whatsoever but feels quite pointless to raise topics from the video to get buried within the spam of overwork = bad.
 
May 17, 2018
3,454
If you think he even as director has any real control of the timelines and conditions his team has to deal with you have no concept of management.

Or business as a whole, really. A lot of people think there's a possible reality where you have a company that works on big projects where literally 100% of the workforce is happy, every deadline is met without one single delay or budget extension, *and* the product is best-in-class.
 

Bruceleeroy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,381
Orange County
You sound very bitter. Overworking for decades does that you. You start convincing yourself the more you work the your life is worth, the bigger the bank account the greater you are. As you grow old, you will start questioning if all the work you did was really worth it. On you deathbed, you will wish that you had spent more time with your loved ones than work dusk till dawn.

Can you stitch this on a pillow for me and mail it? I would prefer it be a body pillow and if you could mimic the font Comic Sans -- Always puts me in a good mood
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
But you have the time to complain about Neil Druckmann, huh?
You know for someone who was just whining about how toxic RWBY fans are you sure do like giving me shit because I'm not singing Druckman's praises enough.

You wanna know something? I liked TLOU, and TLOU2 is probably a great game in it's own right. I just have no personal interest in it. I may not have brought up the crunch with RT much but I hope I didn't defend it either(my memory isn't very good so I honestly don't know if I did) because that's what pisses me off about these conversations. People who just shrug and go "what you gonna do" and act like anyone who takes issue with it is being unreasonable.

Is it easier for me to complain about this because I'm not invested in the company? Absolutely, but I try to also not just dismiss the complaints people have when it's brought up.
oh no...not your FULL brainpower!! What will we ever do?!

Dude...I didn't even quote your post to the anime related comment you are referring to here. You are being extremely dismissive on detailed posts with shit like 'drinking koolaid'. Why is it koolaid? Again why are you so mad here? What are you trying to accomplish? What is your core argument?

Is your core argument that crunch is a serious issue that should be discussed? I mean people are discussing it right now while giving their different views on the issue. So that goal is met. You should be happy. It is being discussed seriously.

Maybe walk away from the thread a bit and come back later once you have cooled off.
I've been insulted and met with the usual BS of "that's how it is" and "oh there just so passionate"

Like I don't know what sort of debate that's supposed to foster but I don't see it getting very far. I just don't see the point in acting like people overworking is a good thing even if they want to do it. When Sakurai nearly hospitalizes himself working on Smash you don't see many people telling him to keep working like that so why is it ok here?

You're right that I'm getting to worked up though, issue I've always had. I'm taking a break.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,558
You sound very bitter. Overworking for decades does that you. You start convincing yourself the more you work the your life is worth, the bigger the bank account the greater you are. As you grow old, you will start questioning if all the work you did was really worth it. On you deathbed, you will wish that you had spent more time with your loved ones than work dusk till dawn.

...Are you trying to gaslight them?

There is one thing in this that I do agree with and it's the problem people have that the quality of your work = the quality of your person. This is a real problem I have seen artists and people in creative jobs having, where they constantly compare themselves to other people and feel that their lifes worth is based on the quality of their work. And I wish I could just say "this is a delusion" but based on how people consume content, peopel will call people awful or lazy, etc because they didn't like the content that the person made.
 

Bruceleeroy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,381
Orange County

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
You sound very bitter. Overworking for decades does that you. You start convincing yourself the more you work the your life is worth, the bigger the bank account the greater you are. As you grow old, you will start questioning if all the work you did was really worth it. On you deathbed, you will wish that you had spent more time with your loved ones than work dusk till dawn.

Is this a new copy pasta? I can't tell anymore. Cz if this is a serious post...dude what's wrong with you? On his deathbed he will wish what? This is oddly personal and unnecessary. What if he is very happy in his life? Hard work (even those including some degree of crunch) does not equal to unhappy life/bad relationships etc. lol
 

Bruceleeroy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,381
Orange County
Or business as a whole, really. A lot of people think there's a possible reality where you have a company that works on big projects where literally 100% of the workforce is happy, every deadline is met without one single delay or budget extension, *and* the product is best-in-class.

Yeah it just makes you realize this is big deal on here cause its an enthusiast forum for games which crosses over into a much younger demographic that haven't been in the work industry long enough to understand the fundamental makings of every corporation in this country.

Is this a new copy pasta? I can't tell anymore. Cz if this is a serious post...dude what's wrong with you? On his deathbed he will wish what? This is oddly personal and unnecessary. What if he is very happy in his life? Hard work (even those including some degree of crunch) does not equal to unhappy life/bad relationships etc. lol

BOOM no he is right. I cry myself to sleep most nights hence why I need the huge pilla
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,322
I really feel like all the people that go on a righteous crusade about "crunch" have never had anything but a 9-5 job.

In every industry I have ever been in we have the same thing as crunch. When I was at an ad agency and was in charge of brand development I would have to work 15 hour days at a time for a month stretch. When I progressed to a production I would be working on filming and editing that would last anywhere between 5-6 months with 12-14 hour days and when filming all weekends. When I became art director it was waayyyy more but I was making stupid money and loved what I did. After I got out of the Ad space I moved on to Visual FX mostly compositing. When we were editing I was working all 7 days though it was only about 10 hour days with the occasional 12. After that I moved into social media marketing and my time was more manageable. Now I'm a mortgage broker (so random) and I work all day till I go to sleep with breaks in between. This is all fine to me because I picked these jobs because I know what I want the money for plus I've had a passion for all of them. I think things need to be done to change the industry dramatically but its an incredibly difficult thing to do and the only reason its such a big deal in the video game space cause it cross the culture line to a lot of people that really don't work in industry's where this is common.
Sounds to me like the hiring managers of these jobs knew exactly who they were getting during the hiring process. I'm assuming you weren't salaried, though, right?
 

Bruceleeroy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,381
Orange County
Sounds to me like the hiring managers of these jobs knew exactly who they were getting during the hiring process. I'm assuming you weren't salaried, though, right?

Salaried with Commission first job, Salaried no commission, Salaried Bonuses, Now just Commission.

Alright but do know that I charge a premium. I assume that should not be a problem considering you work 15 hours a day.

Indeed I can. I need it to be a body pillow cause I sleep in my cubicle so I need whatever artificial human pillow affection I can find. If you can make the face the face of that one comic anime guy above Ill pay double.
 

AbsoluteZ3R0

Member
Feb 5, 2019
885
Is this a new copy pasta? I can't tell anymore. Cz if this is a serious post...dude what's wrong with you? On his deathbed he will wish what? This is oddly personal and unnecessary. What if he is very happy in his life? Hard work (even those including some degree of crunch) does not equal to unhappy life/bad relationships etc. lol
Have you seen the post I replied to?
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,558
You know for someone who was just whining about how toxic RWBY fans are you sure do like giving me shit because I'm not singing Druckman's praises enough.

You wanna know something? I liked TLOU, and TLOU2 is probably a great game in it's own right. I just have no personal interest in it. I may not have brought up the crunch with RT much but I hope I didn't defend it either(my memory isn't very good so I honestly don't know if I did) because that's what pisses me off about these conversations. People who just shrug and go "what you gonna do" and act like anyone who takes issue with it is being unreasonable.

Is it easier for me to complain about this because I'm not invested in the company? Absolutely, but I try to also not just dismiss the complaints people have when it's brought up.

I've been insulted and met with the usual BS of "that's how it is" and "oh there just so passionate"

Like I don't know what sort of debate that's supposed to foster but I don't see it getting very far. I just don't see the point in acting like people overworking is a good thing even if they want to do it. When Sakurai nearly hospitalizes himself working on Smash you don't see many people telling him to keep working like that so why is it ok here?

You're right that I'm getting to worked up though, issue I've always had. I'm taking a break.

Yeah man. I was whining about the fact that the actresses in that show are getting death threats, that it's been highjacked by a culture war. That people push insane conspiracy theories like how RT murdered Monty and lied that it was a "medical complication" because RT can't even do a fan contest with a school because when an artist was told using the name Wendigo and they understood that and were willing to change the name, the "anti-sjw" bridage ransacked and ruined the whole thing disqualifying that artist.

And I would expect you to understand that there are people who legitimately do exist. FFS, Monty was a person like this. There are numerous stories he and other people at RT told of him working 20 hr workdays, or when someone telling him to stop working and go home he would get into arguments with them.

I never said any of that was "healthy" and if you bothered to watch the video Neil Druckmann says he knows thats not healthy and that they need better safeguards to keep people safe from themselves.

But you actively ignored all of this, because you are so convinced Neil Druckmann is a villain and keep putting in this effort because "you have no investment". No one is saying "crunch is good". People are explaining "why crunch is happening" and people get mad because they "think that passion is an excuse" when I have literally seen those people exist and safeguards need to be placed for their health.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,322
Salaried with Commission first job, Salaried no commission, Salaried Bonuses, Now just Commission.
That makes sense, then. I think it's important to clarify that, unless I missed that elsewhere in the discussion. People working straight salary are not and (IMO) should be working any overtime at all without compensation. Your additional input comes with additional output.
 

Firefox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
194
Edit: Striking out my post. I think it's better for the thread to go back on track.

Good for you pick a job where you don't have to work a lot of hours. This is not an unknown quantity. I had a friend at ILM that had insane hours of overtime but guess what ALL HE WANTED TO DO WAS WORK AT ILM It was his choice. Yes it would be awesome if we lived in a world where every corporation could tell their stockholders that they were extending production times by a year to allow for more home / work life balance but you let me know when they all agree to do that.

Are you based in the US? Work Life Balance is certainly different in Europe or even Canada / Australia in comparison.
 
Last edited:
Mar 18, 2020
2,434
No I don't how is it different than being the director of film / media which is what I'm familiar with



Exactly I suspect thats the case more often than not.

The biggest difference is that a video game director passes judgement on the collaborative efforts of pieces of the game, which involve the work of tens~hundreds of people (depending on the scale of the game) in bits over time while frequently changing what they want in the game, as opposed to actively directing the process in tandem with the people involved. Game dev salaries are also far lower (for the people doing the heavy lifting) and schedules are far less realistic (to appease publishers and fans) so directors rely on crunch to offset delays brought on by their decisions.

The lack of unions or any other tangible forms of worker support for people working in game dev (with the exception of voice actors, who usually side with management) is another big difference.

ED: Oh, guess he was banned while I was writing...

Anyway, hope we can get to a point where people aren't sacrificed for these games
 

N.47H.4N

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,095
I will watch later,any insight with the people behind one of the best games ever is a must watch for me,because here as expected 0 worth discussion.
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
BOOM no he is right. I cry myself to sleep most nights hence why I need the huge pilla

haha I hear you. Might need to get one myself

Have you seen the post I replied to?

Yes? I mean to quote you I read the whole post. It still doesn't explain that deathbed loved ones nonsense. Come on now lol I'm not even sure why you think he is bitter either from his posts :S Anyways, perhaps not a point we should drag on further.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,322
Congrats guys for derailing the thread.
Crunch was addressed in the video. Naughty Dog has a history and a reputation for subjecting its employees to crunch which was reported on by an investigative journalist. This spawned a conversation about crunch culture. It's nobody's fault but Naughty Dog's that crunch follows them from room to room.