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Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Hey all, I've aired some bad times going on at my home here and you've been helpful before, so I thought I'd take another crack at it.

So to be brief: My stepdad has an adult daughter, and there is an almost certainty that she has stolen a lot of money from their shared business to fund a drug habit.

We noticed that $1000 had gone missing from our house, and several months prior $3800 had gone missing as well. In the latter case we assumed my mother had misplaced it somewhere, but the reason we suspect that it was my stepdad's daughter now and possibly those months ago is due to the following:

- The money was last seen on a Sunday, and was noticed as gone a few days later. On that Munday my stepdad's daughter had, according to my grandmother who stays with us, come to the house, ran upstairs, and left shortly afterwards. I learned today that she had actually asked if anyone would be home that Monday since she wanted to check on our dog who had recently gone through surgery and would be alone while the three of us were at work (my grandma is 92 and can't care for the dog on her own).

- When asked if she had come on Monday she denied it. In a previous instance she had come to our house and ruffled through some of the paperwork for their shared business, and I was home so I told my mom and stepdad it had happened. When asked she denied it and only came clean after she was told I could vouch she had been there.

- She lived with us previously during a separation with her husband and had a house key that she says she has since lost.

- It came out last year that she had an addiction to Percocet and was why she stayed with us. According to my mother when staying with other people she had stolen pills from them. When I brought this up to my sister (who previously also had an addiction to Percocet) she put two and two together and said that if she was stealing money from us (the money is in envelopes in a nightstand in their bedroom, and while one envelope was stolen the rest were untouched) rather than asking for an advance or borrowing it from her husband, it's probably because she can't tell anyone what she needs it for.

Now, the reason we can't conclusively state she had done it is that my grandmother is kind of senile. She forgets things she's said halfway through saying them. However, on the Monday where my stepdad's daughter had shown up, my grandmother told my mother that she had come to the house, barely spoke, ran upstairs to "use the bathroom", and then left very quickly without saying much of anything. While my grandmother is absolutely senile and a handful to deal with, that seems far too specific to make up. She mentioned my stepdad's daughter by family relationship ("his daughter stopped by"), even.

The other problem is that my stepdad is deeply apprehensive about confronting her. Since he doesn't have absolute proof he is terrified of destroying their relationship or, if it is true, pushing her deeper into addiction. So he's not doing anything about it while my mother has taken money from the shared business account to make up for what's been lost. The business was started by my stepdad and my mother contributed to opening a new location, and since he wanted to help his daughter he made her co-owner and she gets half the money made while stepdad and mom get the other half for themselves, while she hasn't put any of her own money into the business. I think it's normal to want to do that for your kid but it sure drove my mother crazy since she forked up a lot of her own money to build the place.

When my sister brought up the drug issue (I had believed she had gotten off of them since it never came back up) I privately confronted my stepfather and told him that it's a lot more serious than petty theft, and apart from the fact that he has to always look at his daughter and know she robbed him, she could actually die if this continues. She's the only one who could have done it but he's desperate to believe she wouldn't do that to him. Another problem is that my mother is too emotional and cuts him and his daughter up when she's angry, so it makes him dig his heels even deeper. I'm trying to explain to her that, apart from the fact that it's super douchey to do that to your partner, she's not helping the situation at all, but I also understand that his inaction is making the situation worse.

If anyone has any advice, I'd appreciate it. It's tearing my family apart.
 
Oct 27, 2017
10,201
PIT
OP, I don't have much experience here so I'll defer to others but you might want to contact a lawyer about this to discuss how to lock down the business and any next steps with your stepdad's daughter.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
This sounds incredibly awful and nuanced, especially combined with a drug habit.

The only thing I'm a bit confused about - is there a specific reason you keep the cash in the house as opposed to a bank or credit union? Or is the business operated directly from the house itself?
 

Nabs

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,705
You guys should stop leaving money hanging around. Especially in easily identifiable envelopes.
 

Tapiozona

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,253
Sorry, sounds like a crappy situation. If he's not willing to confront her you should at the very least take steps to prevent her ability to steal from you guys and your grandma in the future. Get safes and/or stop leaving and cash, checks, or account info anywhere she can get it. Your grandma also should have a fiduciary to control her finances based on her age and cognitive/memory issues. All this should be the easy part.

The drug habit is the hard part. Opiates addiction is unbelievably difficult to recover from and while it's hard to not blame them for their actions, you have to be understanding that the addicts brain will always take the side of addiction over family, friends, and what is right. That said, it should be addressed and you should look into professional help for advice how to do so. Unfortunately in my experience, the person has to be ready to quit vs forced to, to have any success. And unfortunately that usually happens when things hit rock bottom.

Putting a stop to her stealing may help get her there but either way best of luck.
 

MrCibb

Member
Dec 12, 2018
5,349
UK
That's a rough situation. From this it looks like she's the obvious culprit but I can see why, without any proof, it's hard to confront her. And if she is somehow innocent it'd be horrible for her too, for everyone. She would need to confess or you find the money somewhere and confront her with it.

I don't know what you can do to get your money back but I'd say step #1 is to increase the security in your own home. You're suggesting she might have a key? Change the locks. If she asks why, say one of you lost your key so you need to change it. Pretty standard. If she asks for a key one day you say no and you don't lend her one either. Then go buy a cheap safe where you can store any important things in e.g. money, and keep that important shit out of anyone else's reach. Won't help with the money already missing but it'll stop any more of it going.

Other than that, I'm out.
 
OP
OP
Weiss

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
This sounds incredibly awful and nuanced, especially combined with a drug habit.

The only thing I'm a bit confused about - is there a specific reason you keep the cash in the house as opposed to a bank or credit union? Or is the business operated directly from the house itself?

Oh I suppose I should have been clear about this. Their business is hot dog carts at two separate locations and most customers pay cash, which they take home at the end of the day and then put in the bank later. My mother and stepdad are both retired so it's something they do to supplement income with their pensions.

I guess they never thought about a situation like this happening.
 

Bleu

Banned
Sep 21, 2018
1,599
Why do you have so much cash laying around ? stop doing that.
Change the locks.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
Oh I suppose I should have been clear about this. Their business is hot dog carts at two separate locations and most customers pay cash, which they take home at the end of the day and then put in the bank later. My mother and stepdad are both retired so it's something they do to supplement income with their pensions.

I guess they never thought about a situation like this happening.

Okay that makes a lot more sense. The best thing to do at this point would be to store said cash in a safe at home before taking it to the bank. Good safes are affordable, and they wouldn't need a huge one.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,778
Your family should not be storing loose cash in the house without (at bare minimum) a safe. Especially if there's an addict in the family. When you're dealing with an addict, anything that can be stolen or pawned needs to be locked up. My brother had an extremely bad drug habit for several years, and we found out after a while of it that he periodically stole hundreds of dollars of my mother's heirloom jewelry and pawned it for coke money. He also stole some of my dad's cash out of his wallet on multiple occasions.

If your family wants to store their cash from the business at home, they can buy a safe, but really that stuff should be handled by the bank, especially if it's important to them.
 

SoH

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,740
Get a doorbell cam or similar and don't let them know it was installed. Addicts will hard deny and manipulate until you bring hard evidence.

And they will keep doing it until they get caught.
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,128
I don't have experience on dealing with the tragic drug related situation, but you need to do everything you can to remove her ability to draw money on her own from the company. It will absolutely collapse if nothing is done about that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,121
That's a rough situation. From this it looks like she's the obvious culprit but I can see why, without any proof, it's hard to confront her. And if she is somehow innocent it'd be horrible for her too, for everyone. She would need to confess or you find the money somewhere and confront her with it.

I don't know what you can do to get your money back but I'd say step #1 is to increase the security in your own home. You're suggesting she might have a key? Change the locks. If she asks why, say one of you lost your key so you need to change it. Pretty standard. If she asks for a key one day you say no and you don't lend her one either. Then go buy a cheap safe where you can store any important things in e.g. money, and keep that important shit out of anyone else's reach. Won't help with the money already missing but it'll stop any more of it going.

Other than that, I'm out.

This is all good advice. I would also say Weiss that if your stepdad needs proof then set up a cheap digital camera in the bedroom in order to catch her in the act. Maybe that will force his hand.
 

SasaBassa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,155
That is terrible and I feel for all involved. Would echo the suggestions around doorbell cam and changing the locks and bank/safe.

If it was her, chances are she'll try again because addiction is ruthless :/ i feel for you here because it sounds like your family is in a very tough position while dealing with what sounds like an obviously sick adult step daughter
 
OP
OP
Weiss

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
You guys should stop leaving money hanging around. Especially in easily identifiable envelopes.
Why do you have so much cash laying around ? stop doing that.
Change the locks.
As others have said, that amount of money should not be laying around the house.

Get a safe.

We're going to take measures now that we know it's a risk. The money's been moved and we're going to buy a safe.

I was really more hoping for advice on what to do about my stepdad confronting his daughter.
 

Arttemis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
6,254
Change the locks, and buy a safe for the cash. This is the most obvious solution for preventing money from going missing... But it's maybe the less consequential issue of the two that need to be addressed. She needs help, and it sounds like you're saying the right things her father needs to hear.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,778
We're going to take measures now that we know it's a risk. The money's been moved and we're going to buy a safe.

I was really more hoping for advice on what to do about my stepdad confronting his daughter.

Confronting an addict about their addiction is probably the hardest thing you can possibly do. Without knowing more about the timbre of their relationship it's hard to recommend much.

Like, my brother, when he would get called out for the things his addiction drove him to do, became explosive. He would scream, he would break things, and eventually he decided to try to murder my dad and was only stopped because one of his friends distracted him long enough for the cops to find his gun and take him to the hospital.

Without knowing how your stepdad and his daughter interact in these situations it's difficult to say "oh, he should do this" or "oh, he should do that". I don't think anyone wants to tell you to urge your stepdad to do something that could potentially end in him getting hurt. But I think one thing he may want to consider is cutting her out of the business.
 

kiaaa

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,878
We're going to take measures now that we know it's a risk. The money's been moved and we're going to buy a safe.

I was really more hoping for advice on what to do about my stepdad confronting his daughter.

I think it's gonna be hard to give advice on what is a very personal situation.
 

CthulhuSars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,906
We're going to take measures now that we know it's a risk. The money's been moved and we're going to buy a safe.

I was really more hoping for advice on what to do about my stepdad confronting his daughter.

This is going to be ugly no matter what. The entire family needs to be on the same page on how to handle it and go through the process together while sticking to the agreed upon way and no matter what this is going to change relationship dynamics within the family especially between the father and daughter. I would possibly seek help from a social worker or therapist/addiction advisor on how to proceed with dialog on confronting the daughter and on how to handle the fallout.
 

Lurcharound

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,072
UK
I've been in slightly similar situation. All I have as advice is:

  • take steps to ensure that level of cash doesn't remain in easy reach (looks like you're already on this) and also consider more broadly how to prevent theft of anything valuable that could fund their habit
  • don't accuse on circumstantial evidence even if you feel it all adds up - if you're wrong it can go very badly; even if you're right without conclusive evidence it'll likey go just as badly if they deny it
  • consider how to confirm the addiction if you haven't already - if it's there it should be possible to confirm and there may be more overt attempts to fund it if you're more careful with access to money/valuables that force it into the open
  • if there is a definite addiction that's what you need to look at raising and confronting (this is a far from easy thing to do) - there's no guarantee this will work out unfortunately; people with addictions can respond well and you can find a path forward for them of their addiction or it can go badly; I really don't have an advise on this specifically - I'd perhaps speak to help lines on addiction for advice on how to tackle it

Ideally you get the addiction out in the open and can tackle that. If the theft was due to that it may well come out in due time and can be handled accordingly.

Unfortunately these situations are always tricky.
 
OP
OP
Weiss

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Confronting an addict about their addiction is probably the hardest thing you can possibly do. Without knowing more about the timbre of their relationship it's hard to recommend much.

Like, my brother, when he would get called out for the things his addiction drove him to do, became explosive. He would scream, he would break things, and eventually he decided to try to murder my dad and was only stopped because one of his friends distracted him long enough for the cops to find his gun and take him to the hospital.

Without knowing how your stepdad and his daughter interact in these situations it's difficult to say "oh, he should do this" or "oh, he should do that". I don't think anyone wants to tell you to urge your stepdad to do something that could potentially end in him getting hurt. But I think one thing he may want to consider is cutting her out of the business.

That's a good point. The last time she was confronted about her addiction she absolutely lost her shit on my mother, though she didn't get physically violent.

Another wrinkle is that my mother is now a recovering alcoholic. She'd been drinking for decades and last month she went to detox and since then seems to have completely turned around how she thinks about her addiction and how she deals with it and is now seeing counselors and relapse prevention specialists. She was also a huge douchebag to my stepdad's daughter and they're not really on speaking terms right now, so it makes it all the more complicated.
 

RROCKMAN

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,863
Get a doorbell cam or similar and don't let them know it was installed. Addicts will hard deny and manipulate until you bring hard evidence.

And they will keep doing it until they get caught.


This. Its time for traps so to speak.

Look at it like this. Its way better to catch her red handed when she is stealing from some one eho isn't going to call the cops on her or physically engage her than for her to move on to stealing from other people when she can't steal from you guys anymore when you get the safe.

Once she start stealing from random then all bets are off, and it would be preferable to have hard evidence so your step dad can finally have that chat before letting things progress further
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,542
The other problem is that my stepdad is deeply apprehensive about confronting her. Since he doesn't have absolute proof he is terrified of destroying their relationship

I would be extremely careful to make such allegations when you don't have proof. I have personally experienced situations where people got accused of stealing money from relatives (older people), and it later turned out that they just misplaced it. Wasn't pretty. If you care about the relationship, I would strongly advise against it. There could be many reasons why the money disappeared. As others have said, to prevent this in the future, get a safe and secure the money.

Also, he doesn't have to confront his daughter about the money to help her with her drug addiction. Even if she really did take the money, it might be better to not mention it imo. I'm not an expert on addiction, but I'm sure empathy and support would be much more helpful in this situation than confrontation that could drive her away.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,778
That's a good point. The last time she was confronted about her addiction she absolutely lost her shit on my mother, though she didn't get physically violent.

Another wrinkle is that my mother is now a recovering alcoholic. She'd been drinking for decades and last month she went to detox and since then seems to have completely turned around how she thinks about her addiction and how she deals with it and is now seeing counselors and relapse prevention specialists. She was also a huge douchebag to my stepdad's daughter and they're not really on speaking terms right now, so it makes it all the more complicated.

Unfortunately, unless you have enough evidence that she's a threat to herself or others you can't just throw her into rehab - she has to make the choice to go, and she has to make the choice to stay there, which is honestly the harder part. My brother went to rehab something like five separate times, and each time he went basically treated it like a vacation on my parents' dime instead of intending to actually finish the process. He'd just leave whenever he got bored or whenever he actually got challenged by the staff.

At the end of the day the change has to come from your stepsister. She has to want to get better. The only thing your family can do is support her emotionally, but cut her off financially so she isn't a black hole dragging all of you down.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
We're going to take measures now that we know it's a risk. The money's been moved and we're going to buy a safe.

I was really more hoping for advice on what to do about my stepdad confronting his daughter.

No matter how it happens, the "confrontation" has to be met with empathy. Drug abuse is not something people choose to do. It isn't that simple.

I would echo what other users have mentioned and have some form of hard evidence - whether it be video or something similar - and use this moment to do everything possible to get your stepsister the help she needs. Don't back her into a corner, extend a hand.
 

heathen earth

Member
Mar 21, 2020
2,007
Hi. I'm a therapist specializing in the treatment of substance use disorders. Without knowing the specifics of your situation, it's impossible (and probably unethical) for me to give any concrete feedback. What I can say is that guilt/shaming is highly unlikely to produce a positive outcome. Addicts already know what they're doing and how they're living is wrong and fucked up. It is generally better to approach with love, compassion and empathy. I would strongly advise your stepdad to contact a professional clinician personally and try to convince his daughter to seek treatment.
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,535
This is such a tough situation and I'm so sorry you and your family is going through it, Weiss. As others have said, I think the best situation is to prepare yourselves for the future. A safe to keep the money in would be best. But if you can't get a small safe, you can at least get a locking money bag off Amazon for really cheap. Money should be kept in one of these, locked. Additionally, a camera to keep an eye on the safe/bag would be key, as you want evidence of your sister trying to take money, too.

Otherwise, this doesn't sound like a situation you should necessarily put yourself into, Weiss. It sounds awful for all parties involved, but adding yourself to it is all but certain to make it worse.
 
OP
OP
Weiss

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Have you thought about talking to your step dad about this personally OP?

Yeah I've talked about it with him. He'll admit to me that he knows what he has to do, but otherwise he's reluctant and he's explained why. If my mom brings it up though he gets defensive on his daughter's behalf since my mother is really bad at healthily expressing her frustrations with the situation.

Hi. I'm a therapist specializing in the treatment of substance use disorders. Without knowing the specifics of your situation, it's impossible (and probably unethical) for me to give any concrete feedback. What I can say is that guilt/shaming is highly unlikely to produce a positive outcome. Addicts already know what they're doing and how they're living is wrong and fucked up. It is generally better to approach with love, compassion and empathy. I would strongly advise your stepdad to contact a professional clinician personally and try to convince his daughter to seek treatment.

I've never even thought that him confronting his daughter would end poorly. I've been trying to convince him to talk to her since I thought leaving this hanging for too long would make everyone miserable and keep it going.

I will bring up involving a professional but I think the problem is that without the absolute proof she can deny it.
 

Foltzie

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,816
Ask your stepfather if he truly thinks there is an alternative explanation for the money, if he thinks it might still be in the house, then why isn't he and your mom tearing it apart to find the funds?

The answer is he knows well what happened., he just has to accept what comes next.

The alternative is perhaps what you explained, but it could get worse so long as your step sister thinks there is money there that information could get out and be used by someone else, with worse consequences.
 

nopressure

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,414
I think your family just have to accept that money is lost and place future cash in a safe. There's no nice way of confronting someone when a) you don't know they're currently addicted and b) there's no hard evidence and alternative explanations exist.
 

Reeks

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,326
Be strong. Stand your ground. It can only really be one person, right?

Make sure you or your family never leaves money lying around. Ever. Talk to your step-dad. If he's not willing to face the facts then distance yourself and protect your grandparents. Let her know you know without backing her into a corner. People like that can be dangerous but she will not stop if she thinks she can get away with it.

Once again, be strong. Stand your ground.
 
OP
OP
Weiss

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Be strong. Stand your ground. It can only really be one person, right?

Make sure you or your family never leaves money lying around. Ever. Talk to your step-dad. If he's not willing to face the facts then distance yourself and protect your grandparents. Let her know you know without backing her into a corner. People like that can be dangerous but she will not stop if she thinks she can get away with it.

Once again, be strong. Stand your ground.

Personally I do feel that there is too much smoke around the situation for it not to be his daughter. The only other alternative is that a single envelope of money was for some reason not placed with the rest.

But that she asked if anybody would be home the day she came over, that she's lied before about coming over, that she has a key when my grandma locks the door all the time when she's alone at home, that she was in and out super quick, that the last time money went missing it was placed in the same spot as the envelope that went missing now, at what point can I say it's safe to be suspicious of her?
 

JaseC64

Enlightened
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,008
Strong Island NY
Op your step dad should give you his daughters side of the business. Get lawyers involved. Sounds like she isn't stable to be responsible about the business and money.

Your parents need to change all the locks and block her access when non of you are present. She can only enter when one of you is there (not granny) and also she should be banned from the room with the money. Zero reason to be there.

The money needs to be managed differently. No more cash laying about. Either have someone put it in a safe that only say you know the combo or have it be managed via mobile apps. (Virtual currency)

Find out what the step daughter is doing. If she is found to be taking drugs, confront her and get an intervention going. If she doesn't want help, remove her from the business. Give her strict access to the home.

I wish you the best OP.
 

Reeks

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,326
Personally I do feel that there is too much smoke around the situation for it not to be his daughter. The only other alternative is that a single envelope of money was for some reason not placed with the rest.

But that she asked if anybody would be home the day she came over, that she's lied before about coming over, that she has a key when my grandma locks the door all the time when she's alone at home, that she was in and out super quick, that the last time money went missing it was placed in the same spot as the envelope that went missing now, at what point can I say it's safe to be suspicious of her?
It sucks facing the fact that someone would do this. But trust your gut and protect your family. You gotta sit them down and tell them leaving money in an envelope anywhere means kissing it goodbye. If they can't do the math then it's on them. This is going to be hard for your step dad to accept- and this is what she is counting on. I saw my cousin take advantage of my grandmother for years and my grandmother knew but couldn't face it. At some point she got a safe and the mysterious missing money never happened again. I'd talk to your step dad for sure to find ways of preventing her from stealing in the first place. She won't stop unless she doesn't have access. Also prepare yourself to be gaslit. Don't let that sway you.
 
OP
OP
Weiss

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
It sucks facing the fact that someone would do this. But trust your gut and protect your family. You gotta sit them down and tell them leaving money in an envelope anywhere means kissing it goodbye. If they can't do the math then it's on them. This is going to be hard for your step dad to accept- and this is what she is counting on. I saw my cousin take advantage of my grandmother for years and my grandmother knew but couldn't face it. At some point she got a safe and the mysterious missing money never happened again. I'd talk to your step dad for sure to find ways of preventing her from stealing in the first place. She won't stop unless she doesn't have access. Also prepare yourself to be gaslit. Don't let that sway you.

Well we'll definitely make sure to lock the money up. As for actually dealing with her I wish we had a more concrete answer.

I guess the way I look at is if this wasn't his daughter, if this was just an employee, then we'd feel confident to sack them. It's only complicated because she's his daughter.
 
OP
OP
Weiss

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Yeah looks like my stepdad has decided not to deal with it. He's not talking to his daughter about what she did and he's going to give her half the money from this month like nothing happened.

This is so frustrating. I understand how hard it is, especially for him, but he's burying his head in the sand and it's just making my mother freak out at him which makes him dig even deeper. It's a fucking mess. They're supposed to have a talk next month about how his daughter needs to put money into the business but fat chance of that happening.