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Dog Weissman

Banned
Sep 12, 2020
734
The last* time I fired up Skyrim with any intention of sinking *serious* time into it was in 2011 on the XBox 360. I was enamored with the game at the time, along with most other people, to the point where I wasn't really distracted by some of the more atrocious aspects of its design. Most of my complaints were rooted in comparisons to prior games in the franchise and how the game was "dumbed down" from TESIII: Morrowind—a fairly common complaint though obviously not one that impacted sales or mainstream impressions. I don't think it's controversial to say Skyrim was an absolute sensation—one of the most influential games of the decade.

While I don't think perception of the game has shifted 180° to being purely negative, 10 years worth of open world games to compare it to has certainly given some perspective on where Skyrim and Bethesda came up short. The animation (never Bethesda's strong suit...) is laughable, the voice acting and and limited cast are a meme, the less said about the puzzles the better, and the bugs and jank are synonymous with the franchise and development studio. There's just so much shit that comes off as amateur hour in the year of our lord 2021.

*And yet, I just put 20 hours into it in the last week with no sign of slowing down. There's still something here that's very compelling, even when compared to some of its best competition.

I'm still making my way through the game and collating my thoughts so I don't have an answer to my own question quite yet but here are some stray observations:

1. I get an absolute kick out of abusing its systems. I'm trying to avoid being overpowered too quickly but pickpocket+archery training helped me overcome the slog that comes with being underpowered in the opening portions of the game.

2. Loads of points of interest that haven't become tediously same-y yet. I know once I've spelunked ancient nord ruin 452456 it'll start to get old but right now delving into the various dungeons is still good. Exploration in general is just a hell of a lot more compelling in this game than say, The Witcher 3. Granted, when TW3 has narrative content as a reward for exploring a place it almost universally would win in a head to head comparison but otherwise the dungeons and points of interest in TW3 are incredibly dull. This is a rare head to head comparison I'm willing to make.

3. The lore. Even though I can't be arsed to read the insane amount of books that pad it out in this and other games in the series. I'm fascinated by the lore of TES universe; there's some really trippy shit going on in the background of these games that's almost entirely missable and divorced from any quests you actively participate in. This is something almost totally unique to the series that deserves kudos. There's depth for those willing to look for it although the plot is pretty ho-hum without it.

So yeah, Resetera. Where does Skyrim still got it?
 
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SanTheSly

The San Symphony Project
Member
Sep 2, 2019
6,501
United Kingdom
I like the snowy sandbox? Maybe?

Paarthunax being voiced by Charles Martinet is amusing to me maybe?

Despite being a painfully mediocre game for me I can still sink 30+ hours into it doing meaningless drivel and progressing the nothing story?

I really don't have much nice to say, unfortunately.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,373
I have no idea how people say dungeons in skyrim are interesting. Maybe i played some bootleg version where they all looked one of the three templates and had the same turning stones puzzles and draugrs in it.
 

mpak

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 5, 2021
762
What it does good is that Skyrim - and TES specifically, because it seems like even in Fallout has less of that - creates incredible immersion due to the living world. World literally can exist without main character (though of course the plot won't progress). You can dedicate hours hunting deers while some unfortunate character dies somewhere and you can find his body later.

I am not sure how BGS achieves that, but as we can roughly split the open world games into Ubisoft style, Rockstar style and Bethesda style, then only BGS style provides the real living world. Ubisoft style is a scripted checkpoint world, Rockstar style is a theme park, but only in The Elder Scrolls you can immerse yourself.
 
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B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,721
The gameplay itself is not really any good and never really has been. Not only is it hard to level up, but for a game that essentially wants you to play your way, it goes out of it's way to make certain kinds of gameplay absolutely horrible. If you want to be a mage in Skyrim then life is suffering. If you want to play as a stealthy character then life is also suffering, until you get your stealth skill up to a reasonable level. The problem is after that reasonable level it turns into a fucking mess, where all you need to do is crouch and it's like you just vanished into thin air.

I like the idea of the talent trees and leveling stuff up, but the baseline for pretty much everything that isn't melee or archery is beyond abysmal.

The running around the world was great, but the interacting with that world was shit.
 

Lucreto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,632
I enjoy the music and the very Viking setting.

There is also very few games you are hunting dragons like with Skyrim. Dragons are my favourite mythological creature so I am drawn to the game.

I plan on getting the Anniversary edition and do it all again.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,507
I have no idea how people say dungeons in skyrim are interesting. Maybe i played some bootleg version where they all looked one of the three templates and had the same turning stones puzzles and draugrs in it.

ONE dungeon stood with me because it was a wolf fighting ring, disturbing as hell.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,464
I have no idea how people say dungeons in skyrim are interesting. Maybe i played some bootleg version where they all looked one of the three templates and had the same turning stones puzzles and draugrs in it.

A lot of dungeons are telling a story either actively or environmentally. Also a very small percentage have the claw lock mechanism.
 

Deleted member 10119

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 8, 2021
768
The gameplay itself is not really any good and never really has been. Not only is it hard to level up, but for a game that essentially wants you to play your way, it goes out of it's way to make certain kinds of gameplay absolutely horrible. If you want to be a mage in Skyrim then life is suffering. If you want to play as a stealthy character then life is also suffering, until you get your stealth skill up to a reasonable level. The problem is after that reasonable level it turns into a fucking mess, where all you need to do is crouch and it's like you just vanished into thin air.

I like the idea of the talent trees and leveling stuff up, but the baseline for pretty much everything that isn't melee or archery is beyond abysmal.

The running around the world was great, but the interacting with that world was shit.
Respectfully disagree. I like the fact that if you wanted to be good at something, then you needed to invest time into making it good.
Sure, it is silly that at 100 Stealth you could basically sit on top of a sleeping dragon and it would not register you being there at all, but still.

To OP's question, I loved the fact that I could be travelling down a road and get mugged by random bandits or come across some ruin or cave that begged to be explored. The immersion level of that game was something else.
 

KillLaCam

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,383
Seoul
Interesting side quests. I think Skyrim is the last game (for me) where pretty much every quest was as interesting as the main quest. I have a billion play throughs in Skyrim and probably have only beaten the main story twice because of how much other interesting content there is.

also immersion like everyone is saying. I've never been bored in Skyrim , even just walking around to the next city because it always felt like something could happen. Feels like you're in an active world.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,373
A lot of dungeons are telling a story either actively or environmentally. Also a very small percentage have the claw lock mechanism.

i'm not talking about the claw lock, i'm talking about the dolphin - snake - bird stones you need to turn, and its definitely not a small percentage
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,507
Interesting side quests. I think Skyrim is the last game (for me) where pretty much every quest was as interesting as the main quest. I have a billion play throughs in Skyrim and probably have only beaten the main story twice because of how much other interesting content there is.

I think The Witcher 3 and Ghost of Tsushima are up there in this aspect.
 

Papaya

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,474
California
Exploring the world still feels great. It's got that Bethesda's X factor stuff. The gameplay is the main problem cause combat just isn't fun. Skyrim is at its best when you can turn off your brain and just have fun roaming around. Sometimes you can't cause the game will throw ridiculous encounters at you that ratchet the difficulty up an insane amount. Other times you're just walking along and a thief tries to rob you. These moments are always great, and are Skyrim at it's best IMO.
 
Jul 7, 2021
3,155
Main quests and side quests
Leveling system
The world, in- and outdoors
Truly excellent score
and indeed, the immersion.

It's a better game than The Witcher 3 in my book and thus the best Western RPG ever made.

Still looks great as well.
 
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OP
OP
Dog Weissman

Dog Weissman

Banned
Sep 12, 2020
734
The gameplay itself is not really any good and never really has been. Not only is it hard to level up, but for a game that essentially wants you to play your way, it goes out of it's way to make certain kinds of gameplay absolutely horrible. If you want to be a mage in Skyrim then life is suffering. If you want to play as a stealthy character then life is also suffering, until you get your stealth skill up to a reasonable level. The problem is after that reasonable level it turns into a fucking mess, where all you need to do is crouch and it's like you just vanished into thin air.

I like the idea of the talent trees and leveling stuff up, but the baseline for pretty much everything that isn't melee or archery is beyond abysmal.

The running around the world was great, but the interacting with that world was shit.

This thread is about what makes it compelling despite all of its many flaws, now how it's a shit game that's shitty. Talking about how it's shit isn't interesting. Talking about the areas where it's still uniquely good and compelling in 2021 is, I think.
 

SanTheSly

The San Symphony Project
Member
Sep 2, 2019
6,501
United Kingdom
Something that didn't really hit me until I was a lot older and read a post about it, is how there's not really a lot of "good" choices and pathways you can follow in Skyrim's main narrative.

You can side with the ethnonationalists who often talk with all the depth and nuance a paid living museum actor at a viking reenactment might, or you can side with the more generally racist and imperialistic empire who are framed as the worse of the two.

I didn't think about this much when I was 18 and the game was new, and didn't think about it much on subsequent revisits because I disengaged from the story content as much as possible whenever I went back.

I'm not sure if I like the story more for the "there's no good option" angle, or if I just find it even worse because I now realise you're stuck between what amounts to a village of nordic nazis versus a larger, somewhat incompetent facist regime.

I think… probably less.

I just don't know what the storywriting angle was for this fantastical dragon filled world that this was what the player choice ended up boiling down to.

But, I do enjoy discussing this point with regards to Skyrim, so that may be the one major positive I can attribute to the game outside of small quirks like I did earlier.
 

CheapJi

Member
Apr 24, 2018
2,254
its a very detailed and alive world.
and I'm not talking about graphical details.
 

Unaha-Closp

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,723
Scotland
As with all their open-world games, the enjoyment for me is always finding out how to get a house and then using it as a base for adventures. I really dislike jumping around locations and quests with my pockets brimming with stuff I collected 3 quests before. So I like to get up in the morning, decide if quest day, side quest day, personal maintenance day, restocking supply day, etc, and then going off and doing it, then return home, unload my goods or rewards, etc and sleep. So with some foreknowledge, I can set little goals for myself, do these quests to unlock house, obtain gold to buy said house, get furniture, and now I can play the game as my self-assigned roleplaying race. Mods are excellent at this as you can install Live Another Day and you can trigger the main quest whenever you like and can roleplay to your heart's content until then. The last time I played no one was expecting a Thalmor from the Embassy to be Dragonborn and yet Alduin went down all the same. Skyrim is also just easy to play, it's not very esoteric or hard to puzzle out, to some people's detriment for sure, so it's an easy brain off game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,179
I really like the *you just get better at what you actually do* system. It's rewarding and practical and super simple to understand. You want to be sword and shield? Just do that and you'll level up that. You want to be magic? Just do magic and you'll level that up. There's no sweating about builds or the idea you'll do it wrong and have to restart in 20 hours. That's great, the accessibility.
 

SanTheSly

The San Symphony Project
Member
Sep 2, 2019
6,501
United Kingdom
The gameplay itself is not really any good and never really has been. Not only is it hard to level up, but for a game that essentially wants you to play your way, it goes out of it's way to make certain kinds of gameplay absolutely horrible. If you want to be a mage in Skyrim then life is suffering. If you want to play as a stealthy character then life is also suffering, until you get your stealth skill up to a reasonable level. The problem is after that reasonable level it turns into a fucking mess, where all you need to do is crouch and it's like you just vanished into thin air.

I like the idea of the talent trees and leveling stuff up, but the baseline for pretty much everything that isn't melee or archery is beyond abysmal.

The running around the world was great, but the interacting with that world was shit.

Something that came to me recently whilst playing a much-maligned game for the first time, is that Skyrim/Elder Scrolls had a very similar skill levelling system to it.

Skyrim mitigates it with those skill tree elements and isn't as exploitable, but I thought it funny that some people really love Skyrim's levelling (as evidenced in this thread) but this other game was almost universally criticised for it.

And that other game?


110876-final-fantasy-ii-nes-front-cover.jpg
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,464
Something that came to me recently whilst playing a much-maligned game for the first time, is that Skyrim/Elder Scrolls had a very similar skill levelling system to it.

Skyrim mitigates it with those skill tree elements and isn't as exploitable, but I thought it funny that some people really love Skyrim's levelling (as evidenced in this thread) but this other game was almost universally criticised for it.

And that other game?


110876-final-fantasy-ii-nes-front-cover.jpg

Bc you can more easily control the leveling in Skyrim than you can FFII.
 

NightShift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,999
Australia
While I vastly prefer the world of Fallout, I do think Skyrim is BGSs best designed open world yet and is definitely up there in all of gaming. It feels natural (in its own way), full of stories like nothing else and is so incredibly easy to get lost in for hours.

Actually, I suspect Fallout 76 may secretly be their best open world but I don't really know because of its forced always-online bullshit. Don't tell ResetEra I said that though.
 

SanTheSly

The San Symphony Project
Member
Sep 2, 2019
6,501
United Kingdom
Bc you can more easily control the leveling in Skyrim than you can FFII.

Of course, but you can also do dumb shit like intentionally hurting yourself and then spamming restoration magic over and over, or pickpocketing absolutely everyone in sight by quick saving and quickloading, or simply just sneaking as much as possible everywhere.

Skyrim is completely abusable in the same way that hitting yourself over and over is in FF2, I think in some playstyles it's honestly even more broken in that regard.

Other playstyles were always pretty miserable for me though.

I guess for some people that level of system exploitation and being able to break the game with its own mechanics is also a plus though 😅
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,373
Something that came to me recently whilst playing a much-maligned game for the first time, is that Skyrim/Elder Scrolls had a very similar skill levelling system to it.

Skyrim mitigates it with those skill tree elements and isn't as exploitable, but I thought it funny that some people really love Skyrim's levelling (as evidenced in this thread) but this other game was almost universally criticised for it.

And that other game?


110876-final-fantasy-ii-nes-front-cover.jpg

Skyrim isnt as exploitable? We're defnitely not talking about the same Skyrim then
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Play the character you want and go wherever you want whenever you want. I think Bethesda games get way too little credit for character creation and all the possibilities here. You can play everything from a mage to a warrior to a thief and everything in between you can think of.
Games like The Witcher 3 pale in comparison where you are always Geralt with some mild build variety, but in the end, you are the guy with the sword and like five magic spells.

Also, Skyrim in VR puts on it on a whole other level. The immersion is just phenomenal even when the VR port is lazy in many ways.
 

Ales34

Member
Apr 15, 2018
6,455
Exploration, atmosphere, and immersive sandbox are still second to none. As well as the freedom to be whatever you want.

Certain gameplay elements are dated now, and the game's age is betrayed by how small the cities are--it's ultimately a game made for Xbox 360 hardware and 512Mb RAM.
 

SanTheSly

The San Symphony Project
Member
Sep 2, 2019
6,501
United Kingdom
Skyrim isnt as exploitable? We're defnitely not talking about the same Skyrim then

I should clarify that I mean exploitation isn't the sole means to level. You can absolutely break skyrim wide open but I think the natural levelling curves and pacing are generally far better than in FF2.

I don't necessarily think that pacing is fun but my first playthrough I was never too concerned with trying to break the game just a little in order to progress and have a good time.

I actually like FF2 for what it is, but I think breaking it even a little is more necessary for enjoyment. Especially when it comes to HP/MP amounts. Thankfully, one decently sized grinding session near the start of the game tends to do the job for the rest of your playthrough in my experience.
 

Deleted member 5129

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,263
The interactivity of the world, the fact that you can physically manipulate every single object. And it all tracks, so if you throw something across the room or drop an item in the world it'll always be just how you left it.

It's actually nuts and I wish more devs would've figured this stuff out.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,464
Of course, but you can also do dumb shit like intentionally hurting yourself and then spamming restoration magic over and over, or pickpocketing absolutely everyone in sight by quick saving and quickloading, or simply just sneaking as much as possible everywhere.

Skyrim is completely abusable in the same way that hitting yourself over and over is in FF2, I think in some playstyles it's honestly even more broken in that regard.

Other playstyles were always pretty miserable for me though.

I guess for some people that level of system exploitation and being able to break the game with its own mechanics is also a plus though 😅

If you play Skyrim you don't need to do dumb shit to control the leveling. You can abuse both, the problem is doing regular shit works in Skyrim while it doesn't usually work well in FFII.

That said I enjoy breaking most systems eventually.
 

disparate

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,904
There's cool emergent stuff that nothing else really does, I was once walking at night and saw a Dragon pass through a saber tooth's territory and watched from a distance as they fought to the death. Similarly I've watched vampires get mauled by a bear and it's fantastic
 

MouldyK

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,118

PunkSxE

Banned
Apr 9, 2020
1,153
1. Immersion
2. Freedom
3. Soundtrack
4. World building
5. Content
6. Epicness

The sheer amount of things to do and ways to play is pretty absurd. To be a thief, an assassin, a warrior, a mercenary, an alchemist, a vampire, a vampire hunter, a werewolf, a mage, a hero, a dragonslayer or simply a family man... To buy a house or a plot of land to build one from scratch, to be able to get married to either a man or a woman, to adopt children...

No game can match Skyrim for me. Just standing on top of a hill looking at the distance and wondering what to do and where to go while Distant Horizons plays in the background is just something else. It is something only Skyrim can make me feel

 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,891
I didn't think I was going to be able to add anything, as I didn't have too much praise for the game when it was brand new. But then I remembered. You can be a fucking werewolf! Not a shitty wolf form, either. A full-blown, bipedal werewolf. It feels great, too. You can get werewolf buddies to accompany you, as well. You can belong to a thriving community of werewolves (until you exhaust all their questlines and they become cardboard people, like the rest of Skyrim's world)! That is the best part. Easy.
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
11,418
Detailed world, persistence, high quality side quest chains that criss cross, nice setting, dragons, expansive dlc, the list goes on.

Basically everything apart from dungeon asset reuse and maybe some not so great level design in dungeons. And all the bugs. And the main story is a little bit underwhelming and doesn't get you to explore as much of the map as I think would have been helpful.

Played it for the first time last year and was hooked. A real "Oh this is what people love about this game!" moment. Excited for Skywind and maybe at some point will try out Oblivion.
 

Sirhc

Hasn't made a thread yet. Shame me.
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,050
It gets modding right, and the soundtrack is still good.

Aside from serving as a good toolbox to build with I think Skyrim is by and far the weakest modern TES game, especially by 2021 open world standards.