Near infinite BC that scales with hardware is the most underrated perk of PC gaming

[Pargon]

OK...

Click to shrink...

What I mean is that Half-Life supports modern display resolutions, aspect ratios, and runs at high frame rates.
Obviously it has low resolution textures and low-poly models. But compare that to playing console games from '98 like Ocarina of Time - or even later games like Perfect Dark (2000) and it's a vastly better experience.
That's what I meant by saying that it "looks fine".

If you just came here to say that backwards compatibility doesn't matter because old games are too ugly to play… well, okay.
I certainly don't agree with it though. For me, the biggest barrier to playing old games is if they run poorly.

 

[Trelova]

ya'll focus a lot on the higher end of things in regards to PC but personally im at the super low end and it's still pretty great here

my laptop is probably some 9 years old by now, the tech is potato-level and im stuck with it. it can still play modern games though, even if they have to look a lil poopy, and im happy about that.

even without upgrading or really doing anything to my crap hardware, i've still been able to keep up with newer games of all kinds just from the magic of settings and being able to bring games down to my level.

because im not a big fan of the spectacle or graphics to begin with, it allows me access to a huge variety of games that a 9+ year old console would just never even get to see altogether, because there's no forward compatibility. A PS3 is never going to have big AAA PS4 games running on it, but i essentially can have modern games running on my laptop. that's a pretty notable difference right there.

this is on top of any and all modern indies i'd like to play that wouldn't come on an old console at all, many of which actually run pretty well due to their low requirements.

also, i have emulators that give me free reign to play games from PS2 era all the way back to NES and all the portables that come inbetween power-wise, like 3DS, DS, PSP, GBA and all.

all that. all those modern games, all those indies, all those retro games, with one crappy ass laptop. that's the real cool thing about PC i'd say

 

[Deleted member 401]

This is one of the biggest reasons I play on PC. I can't play MvC2 on my Xbox One or Sin & Punishment on my Switch, but my rig can sure as hell still play Zoo Tycoon 2.

 

[tommyv2]

I don't think so. I tried playing FEAR again the other month and ran into an issue where the framerate would drop significantly after a while. Seems I needed to do a bit of research and found out I needed to download a dll file and drop it in the game's installed folder to fix the issue.

Click to shrink...

This. It's a Logitech mouse driver polling issue or something. Game turns into a slideshow on any hardware without the DLL fix.

 

[Thera]

What I mean is that Half-Life supports modern display resolutions, aspect ratios, and runs at high frame rates.
Obviously it has low resolution textures and low-poly models. But compare that to playing console games from '98 like Ocarina of Time - or even later games like Perfect Dark (2000) and it's a vastly better experience.
That's what I meant by saying that it "looks fine".

Click to shrink...

If you are telling me the game was f*ing impressive at that time, yes, I was there to experience it.
If you are telling me its gameplay aged very well and that this is still a fun game to play, yes, I agree.

If you are telling me NPC, animation and textures looks fine, no, I can't agree with you :

The rock texture, the pixelated background and this skybox doesn't "looks fine" for me.

 

[Falchion]

Yeah PC really is the standard when it comes to keeping old games playable.

 

[Border]

Problem is that the backwards compatibility is just very spotty at times. I wanted to play Jedi Academy but it just seems to randomly crash to desktop so I gave up. Running games from 20 years ago is a crapshoot unless they've been given a thorough modernization patch.

 

[Samiya]

Problem is that the backwards compatibility is just very spotty at times. I wanted to play Jedi Academy but it just seems to randomly crash to desktop so I gave up. Running games from 20 years ago is a crapshoot unless they've been given a thorough modernization patch.

Click to shrink...

Use pcgamingwiki.

 

[JahIthBer]

If you are telling me the game was f*ing impressive at that time, yes, I was there to experience it.
If you are telling me its gameplay aged very well and that this is still a fun game to play, yes, I agree.

If you are telling me NPC, animation and textures looks fine, no, I can't agree with you :

The rock texture, the pixelated background and this skybox doesn't "looks fine" for me.

Click to shrink...

That's probably the worst looking area in Half Life.


For a '98 game designed mainly to run on the CPU, it's quite crazy.

 

[Meech]

One of my favorite features PC gaming and one of the many reasons it's my main platform of choice.

 

[Mukrab]

It's great but it also has a downside. If im playing a game and im not getting the framerates i want at ultra settings i often think to myself to just play it next time i upgrade my rig. I don't end up doing it very often but it sucks that im getting that feeling that im not playing the game to it's fullest potential.

And this happens in most modern games. I have a good rig. I7 9700k, 2070 super, 2x16 GB 3600MHz Ram. Feelsbadman.

Basically for me it's a great feature when you are playing ilder games, current ones have the opposite effect on me.

 

[dgrdsv]

Problem is that the backwards compatibility is just very spotty at times. I wanted to play Jedi Academy but it just seems to randomly crash to desktop so I gave up. Running games from 20 years ago is a crapshoot unless they've been given a thorough modernization patch.

Click to shrink...

Jedi Academy as almost any other id tech engine game works nearly perfect on modern h/w.

 

[MazeHaze]

It's great but it also has a downside. If im playing a game and im not getting the framerates i want at ultra settings i often think to myself to just play it next time i upgrade my rig. I don't end up doing it very often but it sucks that im getting that feeling that im not playing the game to it's fullest potential.

And this happens in most modern games. I have a good rig. I7 9700k, 2070 super, 2x16 GB 3600MHz Ram. Feelsbadman.

Basically for me it's a great feature when you are playing ilder games, current ones have the opposite effect on me.

Click to shrink...

What games are you playing where that rig isnt enough? The next substantial upgrade from a machine like that involves a $1200 GPU, that build is basically capable of slaughtering anything. If you're talking 4k max settings, yeah but even a 2080TI has trouble with that.

 

[Mukrab]

What games are you playing where that rig isnt enough? The next substantial upgrade from a machine like that involves a $1200 GPU, that build is basically capable of slaughtering anything. If you're talking 4k max settings, yeah but even a 2080TI has trouble with that.

Click to shrink...

I have a 1440p 165hz monitor and while i dont need that many frame, having around 120 consistently would be perfect. I dont get that in the vast majority of games i played recently. At max settings of course.

 

[Yarbskoo]

Playing Half-Life 2 at 4K/120fps with the Update mod is one of the things that makes life worth living.

 

[MazeHaze]

I have a 1440p 165hz monitor and while i dont need that many frame, having around 120 consistently would be perfect. I dont get that in the vast majority of games i played recently. At max settings of course.

Click to shrink...

The difference between high and ultra is very small. I would fail a blind test tbh, and the performance gap is usually large.

 

[Mukrab]

The difference between high and ultra is very small. I would fail a blind test tbh, and the performance gap is usually large.

Click to shrink...

I guess so but the difference in performance doesnt seem to be that big in most games either. It worked for me in Doom Eternal but i didn't have as much success in other games like for Instance in Mass Effect Andromeda and Other Worlds iirc. Still played them at around 90+ but yeah.. didn' get the consisten 120 i'd like. I always disable stuff like motion blur and film grain so that might contributeto the less optimal performance, at least the motion blur does.

 

[Yarbskoo]

If you are telling me the game was f*ing impressive at that time, yes, I was there to experience it.
If you are telling me its gameplay aged very well and that this is still a fun game to play, yes, I agree.

If you are telling me NPC, animation and textures looks fine, no, I can't agree with you :

The rock texture, the pixelated background and this skybox doesn't "looks fine" for me.

Click to shrink...

I actually kinda like the simplified low poly look the game has.

 

[karnage10]

I find it disapointing to see people saying half life 1 isn't playable in PC because it is "ugly".
I would like to see how many people think PS3-4 runs half life 1 better than PC. oh wait you don't even have that chance.

 

[wafflebrain]

Yeah its pretty great, one of the best things going rn for BC on PC is emulators with VR support and games like og Doom with its infinite wad scene also compatible with VR. Just the other day I'm playing on some 32 map megawad with sprawling landscapes feeling like I'm living inside this low poly world with the Doom aesthetic, shit's amazing.

I have a soft spot for the 90s point and click adventure games and praise be to GOG for making a lot of those available to buy digitally. It also kinda boggles my mind that we have one half of the original Myst team still making games and now a VR exclusive (Firmament).

On top of that Microsoft has all forthcoming self published titles coming to PC...it's a great time for the platform.

 

[ss_lemonade]

Half-Life 1 makes me nauseous, which is strange since I normally don't feel that way with other first person shooters (even on consoles). Someone told me it could be FOV related but I haven't had time to fire it up again.

 

[Spark]

A game becomes unplayable and ugly when it's less than a stable 30fps, shackled to some out of date controller and it runs at a low resolution. Half Life 1 looks sharp and high resolution, runs at 60+ FPS and has a control scheme that all modern PC shooter still use today. It came out the same era as Golden Eye on the N64. Golden Eye is borderline unplayable today, Half Life is the opposite.

 

[Yarbskoo]

Half-Life 1 makes me nauseous, which is strange since I normally don't feel that way with other first person shooters (even on consoles). Someone told me it could be FOV related but I haven't had time to fire it up again.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, if you have a 16:9 display you should probably be using FOV 106.

A game becomes unplayable and ugly when it's less than a stable 30fps, shackled to some out of date controller and it runs at a low resolution. Half Life 1 looks sharp and high resolution, runs at 60+ FPS and has a control scheme that all modern PC shooter still use today. It came out the same era as Golden Eye on the N64. Golden Eye is borderline unplayable today, Half Life is the opposite.

Click to shrink...

On that note, there's an emulator build out there specifically designed for Goldeneye 007 and Perfect Dark that enables M&KB controls as well as framerate hacks and as far as I'm concerned it's the best way to play those games unless Microsoft gives us a real port.

 

[SOLDIER]

Is there a free program that specifically lists my current PC components?

I'd ask for recommended parts but it's also been a while that I've forgotten a lot of what I currently have.

 

[Deleted member 2317]

On that note, there's an emulator build out there specifically designed for Goldeneye 007 and Perfect Dark that enables M&KB controls as well as framerate hacks and as far as I'm concerned it's the best way to play those games unless Microsoft gives us a real port.

Click to shrink...

Hold the phone, what? What's its name if you don't mind sharing?

 

[Border]

Jedi Academy as almost any other id tech engine game works nearly perfect on modern h/w.

Click to shrink...

I don't think it's the engine -- it's usually between levels when it shits the bed, going in or out of FMV cutscenes. I presume it's some kind of codec issue, but it doesn't seem well documented.

 

[Yarbskoo]

Hold the phone, what? What's its name if you don't mind sharing?

Click to shrink...

1964GEPD

No idea if it's still being updated, but it seems to work pretty well once I got everything configured.

*Insert obligatory PSA about the evils of software piracy here, download at your own risk, etc.*

 

[Nessus]

Been PC gaming since the 90s. TIE Fighter, Doom, Doom II, Wolfenstein 3D, Heretic, Descent, WarCraft, Alone In The Dark 3, King's Quest VI, Space Quest V..

Then in high school got into online gaming and me and my friends spent countless hours playing StarCraft: Brood War, Age Of Empires II, Quake 2, Action Quake 2, Quake Team Fortress. Brood War and AOE2 are still my most played games of all time, we'd play them for hours every day after school.

Then there was Steam. I had to wait a while before I was able to afford a computer capable of playing Half-Life 2 (played it on Xbox originally). The 2000s-era Valve games, Team Fortress 2, Portal, Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2..

The 2010s: Skyrim, Dishonored, Portal 2, Terraria, Mass Effect (didn't play it until after 2 and 3 had come out), Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3, Bioshock.. Deus Ex: Human Revolution looked really good so before it came out I went back and gave the original Deus Ex another shot, forcing myself to get through the first couple levels until everything started to click. Then I went back and played some other games I'd missed, Deus Ex: Invisible War (which I ended up really enjoying, despite its shortcomings it actually does a couple things better than the original), Fallout 3, and Fallout: New Vegas.

This in the last few years I finally played Morrowind (with a mod that increases the draw distance so you can see all of Vivec at once and it feels more like an actual city, and can see the Ghost Gate from almost anywhere, I absolutely love it), then went on to play Oblivion. Along with newer games, Dishonored 2, Dishonored: Death Of The Outsider, Fallout 4

In the last year Resident Evil 2 remake, Resident Evil 3 remake, Bloodstained..

And my current PC can run all of those games flawlessly.

Yeah, comprehensive backwards compatibility is one of my favorite things about PC gaming.

 

[DvdGzz]

Love my consoles but PC gaming is the best. BC+Mods. That combo is something consoles will never compete with. I am playing Diablo 1 and Dark Souls 3 and they feel like fresh experiences because of mods.

 

[Yarbskoo]

If you have some old games on CDs at home, try to install them and see what happens.

Click to shrink...

I did a week ago, and what happened was I discovered a remarkably active modding community for The Simpsons: Hit & Run.

 

[leng jai]

I just got around to installing all the mods for Mass Effect 2 and at 4K60 this probably a far superior product than whatever $20-40 remaster EA would come up with.

 

[RedSwirl]

I don't think people who enjoy playing retro console games can talk shit about playing retro PC games on modern rigs. If you don't like either than just admit you only care about technologically recent games, no matter what platform they're on. Tons of people still love Half-Life, Thief, and Doom just like they do Sonic 2, Final Fantasy IX, or Metal Gear Solid 1. It's just that on PC you can more readily access the classics on your current hardware.

The only knock you can really make against retro PC games versus retro console games is that old school PC games tend to have WAY less accessible controls. Console controls back in the day were simpler than they are now, but PC games have always used the same keyboard (and mouse), and it took PC developers decades to figure out the best control schemes for that keyboard.

 

[Pargon]

Half-Life 1 makes me nauseous, which is strange since I normally don't feel that way with other first person shooters (even on consoles). Someone told me it could be FOV related but I haven't had time to fire it up again.

Click to shrink...

One of the things to be aware of is that it was built for 4:3 CRTs, and FOV is VERT−
That means the view gets more and more cropped as the aspect ratio gets wider.
For an equivalent to 90° in 4:3 (typical) you need to use:

• 106° in 16:9
• 122° in 21:9
• 139° in 32:9

I find this calculator useful:

Horizontal/Vertical FOV Calculator

Online Horizontal / Vertical Field of View calculator and converter for games, including popular monitor setup presets.

themetalmuncher.github.io

90° HFOV in 4:3 is equivalent to 74° VFOV.
Games should really be using vertical FOV rather than horizontal. It's even a problem in new releases.

I don't think people who enjoy playing retro console games can talk shit about playing retro PC games on modern rigs. If you don't like either than just admit you only care about technologically recent games, no matter what platform they're on. Tons of people still love Half-Life, Thief, and Doom just like they do Sonic 2, Final Fantasy IX, or Metal Gear Solid 1. It's just that on PC you can more readily access the classics on your current hardware.

The only knock you can really make against retro PC games versus retro console games is that old school PC games tend to have WAY less accessible controls. Console controls back in the day were simpler than they are now, but PC games have always used the same keyboard (and mouse), and it took PC developers decades to figure out the best control schemes for that keyboard.

Click to shrink...

Well said.
And yes, if you're going to play very old games on PC, be prepared to use the whole keyboard.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Shoutout also to modders who some create textures, enable widescreen support, higher resolutions, unlock framerates etc for old PC games.

 

[Yarbskoo]

The only knock you can really make against retro PC games versus retro console games is that old school PC games tend to have WAY less accessible controls. Console controls back in the day were simpler than they are now, but PC games have always used the same keyboard (and mouse), and it took PC developers decades to figure out the best control schemes for that keyboard.

Click to shrink...

True, though there are usually resources available to help you remap those controls to something a bit more intuitive.

 

[Thera]

I actually kinda like the simplified low poly look the game has.

Click to shrink...

I don't mind low poly either, I even quite like it in recent games too.
But the rock texture is a no no.

Note that I have exactly the same problem with most PlayStation and N64 games, which had the exactly same problem.

 

[dgrdsv]

I don't think it's the engine -- it's usually between levels when it shits the bed, going in or out of FMV cutscenes. I presume it's some kind of codec issue, but it doesn't seem well documented.

Click to shrink...

This is possible. Usually solved by installing whatever is coming with the game's distribution or by installing the latest DX9 redist - which weirdly doesn't actually come with Win10 by default.

 

[SOLDIER]

Pulled up my current PC specs:

Windows 10 64 Bit

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670k

Motherboard: AsRock Fatal1ty H87

Installed Physical Memory: 8 GB

GPU: Nvidia Geforce GTX 970

HDD: Samsung SSD 500 GB Primary, 6 TB total elsewhere

As mentioned before, I'd love to at least get PS2 and GC/Wii games up to 4K and/or perfect framerate.

I've been looking at ETA Prime's videos, and I guess this build was the one that accomplished just that:



The two factors right now are whether I can recycle any of my current specs or I should just build a whole new PC, and whether the components are more expensive/less expensive now due to the current outside troubles.

 

[banter]

Convenience is (imo) the biggest fault of PC gaming. People bring up endless BC and mods but don't realize that a very large percentage of the general gaming community doesn't know how to do a lot of these things and most of the time they are not very intuitive. For example, many older games have issues running on newer systems because of the whole 32 bit or 64 bit system. This can easily be gotten around but not everyone can just intuitively figure this out. Same goes for mods. Steam workshop was a huge breakthrough imo. All in 1 just click and go for mods. But most games are not this way and not all mods are available in steam workshop for the ones that do support it. Mods can be very intimidating to people who are new to modifying PC files, mostly because you can really mess things up by messing with the wrong files, etc. Then you add costs to the mix, especially more recently with how much graphics cards and CPUs keep jumping performance. There's also constant maintaining of certain drivers, some games use different drivers and sometimes new games can't use the newest ones, etc, etc. It's so much easier to just buy a console and put a game in it, and that is the main reason (imo) consoles will always be more popular than PCs for gaming. It isn't so much that these things are difficult, because they aren't; but when you know no knowledge of it, it appears significantly more difficult and that pushes people away.

 

[Deleted member 2620]

This thread reminds me, I gotta try some CRT filters on older PC games running at like 640x480.

more and more these days I just don't want to see old game assets rendered in high resolutions

 

[RROCKMAN]

Hell it has better BC For most consoles than the consoles themselves thanks to emulators

 

[leng jai]

Convenience is (imo) the biggest fault of PC gaming. People bring up endless BC and mods but don't realize that a very large percentage of the general gaming community doesn't know how to do a lot of these things and most of the time they are not very intuitive. For example, many older games have issues running on newer systems because of the whole 32 bit or 64 bit system. This can easily be gotten around but not everyone can just intuitively figure this out. Same goes for mods. Steam workshop was a huge breakthrough imo. All in 1 just click and go for mods. But most games are not this way and not all mods are available in steam workshop for the ones that do support it. Mods can be very intimidating to people who are new to modifying PC files, mostly because you can really mess things up by messing with the wrong files, etc. Then you add costs to the mix, especially more recently with how much graphics cards and CPUs keep jumping performance. There's also constant maintaining of certain drivers, some games use different drivers and sometimes new games can't use the newest ones, etc, etc. It's so much easier to just buy a console and put a game in it, and that is the main reason (imo) consoles will always be more popular than PCs for gaming. It isn't so much that these things are difficult, because they aren't; but when you know no knowledge of it, it appears significantly more difficult and that pushes people away.

Click to shrink...

So the fact that some people want to put zero effort into improving their experience is the fault of the platform itself?

 

[Ra]

Convenience is (imo) the biggest fault of PC gaming. People bring up endless BC and mods but don't realize that a very large percentage of the general gaming community doesn't know how to do a lot of these things and most of the time they are not very intuitive. For example, many older games have issues running on newer systems because of the whole 32 bit or 64 bit system. This can easily be gotten around but not everyone can just intuitively figure this out. Same goes for mods. Steam workshop was a huge breakthrough imo. All in 1 just click and go for mods. But most games are not this way and not all mods are available in steam workshop for the ones that do support it. Mods can be very intimidating to people who are new to modifying PC files, mostly because you can really mess things up by messing with the wrong files, etc. Then you add costs to the mix, especially more recently with how much graphics cards and CPUs keep jumping performance. There's also constant maintaining of certain drivers, some games use different drivers and sometimes new games can't use the newest ones, etc, etc. It's so much easier to just buy a console and put a game in it, and that is the main reason (imo) consoles will always be more popular than PCs for gaming. It isn't so much that these things are difficult, because they aren't; but when you know no knowledge of it, it appears significantly more difficult and that pushes people away.

Click to shrink...

The thread is about BC, it's not the place for the regurgitation of the same tired decade old "it's too hard for pleebs" conversation.

Why even come in to say all of this off topic stuff? Just go continue to stick with consoles.

 

[banter]

The thread is about BC, it's not the place for the regurgitation of the same tired decade old "it's too hard for pleebs" conversation.

Why even come in to say all of this off topic stuff? Just go continue to stick with consoles.

Click to shrink...

It's a topic about how the "feature" is underrated and I'm saying this is why: It is not always intuitive. Then I expanded it to why there aren't more PC gamers because it is for the same reason. I came to the topic to contribute to the discussion which is more than I can say for your post quoted within. Why even come to the forum if you don't want to have an actual discussion?

So the fact that some people want to put zero effort into improving their experience is the fault of the platform itself?

Click to shrink...

I never said it was anyone's fault. Just giving the (or a) reason why.

 

[RedSwirl]

When it comes to the convenience angle of PC gaming in general, honestly a lot of that just comes down to Windows itself and how Microsoft over the decades has done just enough to maintain Windows' supremacy over PC gaming (i.e.: keep DirectX ahead of the competition) while not doing everything it could be doing to make it more accessible. Most of what Steam accomplished, Microsoft honestly should've done. And there's still more Microsoft could do to just make the OS overall better for gaming. Add to this Apple never really giving a shit about Mac gaming.

I feel like if there existed another open platform with an OS that was more dedicated to gaming -- TV gaming as well as desktop and handheld, with a friendlier front end to the average user, but was still popular enough to be supported by all AAA publishers, it could be to gaming what standard formats are to other media. Like one of those homebrew consoles on steroids.

 

[leng jai]

I've been downloading a random old game and tonight's one was FC Blood Dragon. Game still runs and looks fantastic, a timeless classic.

It's a topic about how the "feature" is underrated and I'm saying this is why: It is not always intuitive. Then I expanded it to why there aren't more PC gamers because it is for the same reason. I came to the topic to contribute to the discussion which is more than I can say for your post quoted within. Why even come to the forum if you don't want to have an actual discussion?


I never said it was anyone's fault. Just giving the (or a) reason why.

Click to shrink...

Literally the first line of your post.

 

[Kadey]

This is why single player and multiplatform I stick to PC. I play practically every game modded with better visuals and QOL stuff. If it weren't for exclusives I would not even own a console anymore.

 

[Aztechnology]

I want to say it's not underrated. But I think you're right in that people often forget that it's one of the biggest gaming strengths. I've been replaying some old games in 4-8k and it's incredible the new life it breathes into it. Couple that with mods, or even just the texture packs etc. And it should be no surprise why so many people prefer PC and the absolute bevy of options it provides.

 

[Dictator]

So the fact that some people want to put zero effort into improving their experience is the fault of the platform itself?

Click to shrink...

Yeah even the Argument is as lazy as the theoretical people in it.

 

[raketenrolf]

This is possible. Usually solved by installing whatever is coming with the game's distribution or by installing the latest DX9 redist - which weirdly doesn't actually come with Win10 by default.

Click to shrink...

I had the same problem, Jedi Academy was crashing even in stages sometimes. I also installed a widescreen hack/mod and thought that may have caused the crashes. Don't know, since Jedi Knight II ran perfectly fine. I didn't bother trying to play it without the mod since I thought the game wasn't that fun anyway. So if you, Border, also played with a widescreen mod maybe try it again without the mod? The mod made things weird in the menus too iirc.