NBC News: Biden hopes to avoid divisive investigations of Trump, "just wants to move on" and prefers unity; Plans to not interfere with the DOJ

[KingK]

Instead of baselessly accusing everyone who disagrees with your naively optimistic takes of "not reading the article" or "just wanting a blue fascist," do any of you want to bother with substantively responding to the many valid points Nola and Froyo Love have been making ITT?

 

[Equippedwithtowel]

looks like house judiciary is also signalling it's not interested in pursuing this. We'll see with the states i guess

 

[Deleted member 31817]

looks like house judiciary is also signalling it's not interested in pursuing this. We'll see with the states i guess

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[RadzPrower]

What is the mechanism to stop that from happening again, without punishment?

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What good is a method of punishment if you abuse power to do it? If you do what they do in order to punish them, are you any better than them? Do you get punished when the next administration comes around? Do they get punished? Does it ever stop?

 

[Deleted member 23212]

Trump's not going to jail.

 

[Nola]

You are reading a lot between the lines.

...and you may be right.

There may be more people like yourself who are reading between the lines and take that line implicitly. I however don't believe anyone who would interpret what was said in that manner should be a candidate for any position though. You need people with the strength of character to stand up for what's right and fulfill THEIR position to the fullest extent of the law.

It's certainly sad that people take that route rather than actually fulfill their duties, but that's on the individual and responsibility cannot be laid on anyone other than the person who did not fulfill the duties of their position.

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They will act independent once in position, but that is literally how every Justice Department gets staffed, you pursue or pursue on behalf of the president's wishes the people that you think will best carry out his vision and operate in his likeness in that department.

And like Obama occasionally did with things like Trayvon Martin, the bully pulpit and a few steps removed statements are often powerful forces that nudge things.

Such has always been the problematic way the Justice Department operates in this country. Which isn't to say Trump didn't massively break from those norms in a dangerously abusive way unlike anyone since Nixon, because he did.

 

[Bengraven]

It's all just the country being held hostage for him to concede.

just concede and I won't come after you.

 

[Equippedwithtowel]

What good is a method of punishment if you abuse power to do it? If you do what they do in order to punish them, are you any better than them? Do you get punished when the next administration comes around? Do they get punished? Does it ever stop?

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i think the answer is don't do crimes but that might be assuming to much functioning out of the judiciary

 

[TheOMan]

looks like house judiciary is also signalling it's not interested in pursuing this. We'll see with the states i guess

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SMH.

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This is exactly how people are going to see this.

 

[RailWays]

looks like house judiciary is also signalling it's not interested in pursuing this. We'll see with the states i guess

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Well that's stupid. We absolutely should see those unredacted portions

 

[Zyae]

Biden should NOT interfere with the DOJ and anyone that thinks that he should doesnt understand part of why trump was so bad for the country.

 

[RadzPrower]

Such has always been the problematic way the Justice Department operates in this country.

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So, rather than try and correct the problem and follow the expectations of the office, we just double down on the "problematic" behavior and reinforce it?

 

[John Rabbit]

Sometimes Era seems like they really "get" how things work, and then sometimes it seems like some of y'all really expected Biden to chokeslam Trump through a table.

 

[RadzPrower]

i think the answer is don't do crimes but that might be assuming to much functioning out of the judiciary

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That's certainly my stance. You cannot abuse power to punish the abuse of power.

How anyone could condone such action is stupefying.

 

[Winstano]

I take this to mean "I'm not going to viciously attack Trump with every fibre of my being like he did with Obama and anyone who criticised him because, quite frankly, fuck that noise. Let the legal people do the legal people things"...

The President of the USA directly focusing on one individual will only do harm.

 

[BringBackSonics]

Not American and not versed in American law buuuuuuuut isn't it fairly clear that Biden is saying he isn't going to have a hand in going after Trump but he isn't going to stop other agencies from prosecuting?

I'm confused by the negative replies by so many users, to the point that I am curious if I am grossly misunderstanding Biden's statement.

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It's because people read the click bait framing and/or want Biden to act just like Trump in using the DOJ as his personal attack dogs.

 

[Squarehard]

Sometimes Era seems like they really "get" how things work, and then sometimes it seems like some of y'all really expected Biden to chokeslam Trump through a table.

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Actually, I'd be okay with that.

Maybe add in chairs and ladders too.

 

[Dyle]

looks like house judiciary is also signalling it's not interested in pursuing this. We'll see with the states i guess

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I don't think that's the correct reading of the situation. They demanded them for the express purpose of impeaching Trump, which is irrelevant once Trump is out of office. The motion was going to fail anyway and come January the Biden admin will give them access to the redacted portions, no court order needed.

 

[SP.]

He needs to at least clean house. Hands off after that is fine and expected, but you can't leave Trumps shitty appointees in there.

 

[Something Creative]

Actually, the way I'm reading it is that he is the one that's moving on, as he's the POTUS, and he should be worrying about everything else that's not Trump himself.

He shouldn't be spending his time thinking about how to get back at Trump, but how to fix everything that he's done to damage the country, and then move the country forward.

He doesn't plan to make it personal, which is exactly what the POTUS is supposed to do, rather than the exact opposite of what we've had for the past 4 years.

You can't be angry at Biden for not interfering/influencing the DOJ as POTUS, and at the same breath be angry at Trump for interfering/influencing the DOJ as POTUS.

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Again, selective reading. From the article:

"Biden has raised concerns that investigations would further divide a country he is trying to unite"

 

[Volimar]

Sometimes Era seems like they really "get" how things work, and then sometimes it seems like some of y'all really expected Biden to chokeslam Trump through a table.

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[JasonV]

I would like it if unengaged voters could see that the Office of the President is not all-powerful and doesn't get to just tell the DOJ what to do. Because Trump has completely perverted the idea of justice in this country.

Biden signaling that he will focus on other aspects of his job and let the DOJ and State AGs proceed however they see fit is the best possible outcome. Biden getting involved personally is nothing but a negative for the process and public trust in the process.

I'm 100% there with all of you if the state AGs decide not to pursue charges. I'll be absolutely pissed. But that isn't on Biden whether he stays out of it or not.

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Unengaged voters do not give FUCK about procedural norms, limitations of power or other assorted bureaucratic nonsense that only 1 party in the US seems to still think matters.

They care about Justice. They about seeing a distinction between Democrats and Republicans. They care about consequences.

More limp wristed "process" norm following is a bullet to the brain for Dems when it comes to the politically unengaged.

 

[Zyae]

Not American and not versed in American law buuuuuuuut isn't it fairly clear that Biden is saying he isn't going to have a hand in going after Trump but he isn't going to stop other agencies from prosecuting?

I'm confused by the negative replies by so many users, to the point that I am curious if I am grossly misunderstanding Biden's statement.

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you are reading it right and is the complete right call.

 

[Equippedwithtowel]

That's certainly my stance. You cannot abuse power to punish the abuse of power.

How anyone could condone such action is stupefying.

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to be clear, the white house picks the ag and staffs the justice departement. There is no malefesance in picking people who will or will not see this as a priotirty. Biden is picking people who will not. That is clear. Froyo Love and Nola have made very detailed arguments to that effect which people are just blowing by because they, like you are arguing against a strawman.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Instead of baselessly accusing everyone who disagrees with your naively optimistic takes of "not reading the article" or "just wanting a blue fascist," do any of you want to bother with substantively responding to the many valid points Nola and Froyo Love have been making ITT?

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As I have said so many times, it is not the President's job to encourage legal action against political opponents. It is not within the bounds of the office.

If the New York State Attorney General decides not to follow through with charges presented by the Second District of NY, that failure is on the New York State Attorney General, not on Joe Biden. At the end of the day, the failure to prosecute lies with the people capable of prosecuting. Whose job it is to prosecute. That is how the legal system works. The presidency is not a whip.

I realize it would feel really good to have a president cheerleading for Trump to go to jail, but that is exactly why Trump does it about his own political opponents. Because it makes his supporters happy even though it is criminal overreach and an offensive abuse of power.

We can't spend the past four years saying that "LOCK HER UP!" is wrong and evil but "LOCK HIM UP!" is somehow better.

 

[Doorman]

Honestly...I'm going to give it at least a year before I try and read too much into Biden's intentions from these kinds of comments.

I don't think it can be so easily overlooked that part of Biden's entire presidential platform--which just won--was focusing on unity and healing and trying to win support by convincing people that there's still room for those things in modern politics. I have my own disagreements on the practicality of that, but either way, it was the platform he ran on, so to publicly target Trump right now would be an awfully quick turnaround on that message.
Just as importantly I don't think it should be overlooked that Trump is still in office literally right now, and is still doing everything he possibly can to fight the election result and discredit Biden's administration before it even begins. Biden coming out before he's even sworn into office and promising that the DOJ is going to drop the hammer on Trump just gives him all the ammo in the world to throw out to the 49% in the country that Biden's trying to orchestrate a coup by stealing the election and enacting a personal grudge and all other manner of projection. Yes you can say that the people who buy the shit he flings don't really matter since they lost, but the likelihood of Trump using those comments to incite further (violent) protest starts at "high" and only goes up from there. I don't hate the notion of him calling for unity for the time being and taking some time for the election furor to run its course and the national temperature to lower a bit before investigation of the previous administration's wrongdoings would even be effective or tolerated on a national level. There's little to be gained right now from throwing more gasoline onto a situation that Trump is still gonna be actively throwing matches at for a while, when he's still in the position to do so.

 

[RadzPrower]

He needs to at least clean house. Hands off after that is fine and expected, but you can't leave Trumps shitty appointees in there.

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I believe only the top-level people are appointed. The rest of the department are career civil servants I believe.

 

[Toth]

I don't think that's the correct reading of the situation. They demanded them for the express purpose of impeaching Trump, which is irrelevant once Trump is out of office. The motion was going to fail anyway and come January the Biden admin will give them access to the redacted portions, no court order needed.

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That was my thought as well. What was so confusing?

 

[Equippedwithtowel]

I don't think that's the correct reading of the situation. They demanded them for the express purpose of impeaching Trump, which is irrelevant once Trump is out of office. The motion was going to fail anyway and come January the Biden admin will give them access to the redacted portions, no court order needed.

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they will have to go through the wh and biden doj which will be staffed with appointees who see investigations into trump as an nusiance. It is pretty clear signalling.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Again, selective reading. From the article:

"Biden has raised concerns that investigations would further divide a country he is trying to unite"

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Mhm

 

[Deleted member 3093]

So, rather than try and correct the problem and follow the expectations of the office, we just double down on the "problematic" behavior and reinforce it?

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What do you do in the event that the DoJ has been used for partisan politics

 

[DanGo]

looks like house judiciary is also signalling it's not interested in pursuing this. We'll see with the states i guess

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I would think the better explanation is that it's better to wait a few months and just have a Democratic administration release it rather than risk having courts establish bad law.

 

[Deleted member 13188]

Sometimes Era seems like they really "get" how things work, and then sometimes it seems like some of y'all really expected Biden to chokeslam Trump through a table.

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That's not what people expect. They also don't expect: "Let's not go investigating, 'cause it gets folks all riled up and we can't have that now can we? Have some more apple pie."

 

[EricTheGamerman]

No American politician will ever face real consequences besides being removed from power these days. The system is and will continue to be broken like that.

Edit: Also, this is Biden's entire brand. He's a literally willing to bend over backwards to acknowledge Republicans as reasonable people acting in good faith, he was never even going to come close to pursuing Trump and there's reason to think any court will follow up when he's preaching the same "Let the country heal" nonsense Obama did before him. We are truly fucking doomed to keep repeating this cycle it seems.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[Nola]

So, rather than try and correct the problem and follow the expectations of the office, we just double down on the "problematic" behavior and reinforce it?

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How is signaling to your advisors and would-be nominees you want some prosecutions and not others achieving that exactly?

And here is what I was saying about knockdown effects playing out in real-time:



And how do you suppose the right and the left is going to interpret this crawfishing?

Its the same song and dance as before, civility politics pursuing some fantasy West-Wing version of reality that achieves the opposite.

Liberals will feel betrayed/duped, Republicans emboldening in their fake Russia-Gate rhetoric, and the magical moderates they are tailoring their lives to will either fall on one side or the other or barely notice. And the long-term effect is eroding confidence in Democrats and the system.

 

[Dyle]

they will have to go through the wh and biden doj which will be staffed with appointees who see investigations into trump as an nusiance. It is pretty clear signalling.

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Jesus christ, come on. That's absolutely ridiculous. There is no world in which the Biden admin tells the House they can't see the Mueller report. That would constitute exactly the kind of heavy handed approach that Biden has specifically said he won't do. How would blocking them from seeing that, a highly unusual borderline illegal action that the Trump admin has been pretty much unanimously criticized for, in any way fit into Biden's hands-off approach to the DoJ?

 

[Squarehard]

Mhm

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Oh, my turn! Me, me me! :D

Biden has told aides that he's concerned that investigations would divide the country but that he would leave decisions up to an independent Justice Department.

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But of course, he didn't actually address any of the points I made in my posts, so I'm pretty sure he's just arguing in bad faith anyways. /shrug

 

[Meauxse]

Well that's stupid. We absolutely should see those unredacted portions

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The point here is that they don't have to go through a SC. Biden can release them.

It isn't that they don't want to follow on this. Some people in here going full acrobatic on cortorting information to fit their narratives (not speaking to you RailWays)

 

[Software Update]

It's strategy from a position of fear. I understand why, I still hate it.

It emboldens republicans. They know Democrats will try to fix the mess and not go on the offensive.

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You've summed it up nicely.

Actually, the way I'm reading it is that he is the one that's moving on, as he's the POTUS, and he should be worrying about everything else that's not Trump himself.

He shouldn't be spending his time thinking about how to get back at Trump, but how to fix everything that he's done to damage the country, and then move the country forward.

He doesn't plan to make it personal, which is exactly what the POTUS is supposed to do, rather than the exact opposite of what we've had for the past 4 years.

You can't be angry at Biden for not interfering/influencing the DOJ as POTUS, and at the same breath be angry at Trump for interfering/influencing the DOJ as POTUS.

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Pretty sure no one wants Biden to "make it personal" or to "get back at trump". They want him held accountable for crimes. Who appoints the head of the DOJ? The POTUS. He's going to select someone who generally agrees with him. That's not influencing or interfering. If a crime was committed it must be prosecuted. You can't prosecute it without an investigation. You can't even know if a crime was committed without an investigation.

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

It's not a good idea to have a President using the DoJ to go after other Presidents. It's not like the DoJ won't have interest in Trump anyway.

 

[RadzPrower]

What do you do in the event that the DoJ has been used for partisan politics

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That would be a case of appointing a new head to the DoJ and have them clean house of the offending persons, prosecuting them if they can.

There are STILL ongoing hearings regarding the behavior of the FBI in the Senate regarding the Russia investigation. There are proper procedures to follow.

If we get to the point where proper procedures are out the window entirely, we might as well revolt at that point. Revolt or move to a country that's not so blatantly corrupt and fascist from both parties.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Oh, my turn! Me, me me! :D


But of course, he didn't actually address any of the points I made in my posts, so I'm pretty sure he's just arguing in bad faith anyways. /shrug

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The justice department isn't independent, he picks the AG and if he thinks investigations are gonna harm the country he'll make sure the AG agrees.

 

[Deleted member 3093]

I remember when libs said that there's no way Trump won't be investigated

Seriously, why do people have these expectations? lol. Liberals will choose decorum over justice any day.

That would be a case of appointing a new head to the DoJ and have them clean house of the offending persons, prosecuting them if they can.

There are STILL ongoing hearings regarding the behavior of the FBI in the Senate regarding the Russia investigation. There are proper procedures to follow.

If we get to the point where proper procedures are out the window entirely, we might as well revolt at that point. Revolt or move to a country that's not so blatantly corrupt and fascist from both parties.

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Proper procedures were already thrown out. Ignoring this does nothing more than enable the further disregard by our enemies of these procedures.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I remember when libs said that there's no way Trump won't be investigated

Seriously, why do people have these expectations? lol. Liberals will choose decorum over justice any day.

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You realize the Second District of New York is waiting for January 20th like a kid waiting for Christmas morning, right?

 

[Loan Wolf]

Dude, what the hell in the history of the United States leads you to believe this??

Again, I really hope to be served a big plate of crow over this, but barring some mild fines from NY, I don't think anything is going to happen to him. And I'm not even optimistic that NY will go through with that modest level of justice.

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Trump's presidency broke a lot of precedents, I expect Dems to do the same if they have a spine. Can't always rely on historical analysis to be the indicator

 

[Meauxse]

I remember when libs said that there's no way Trump won't be investigated

Seriously, why do people have these expectations? lol. Liberals will choose decorum over justice any day.



Proper procedures were already thrown out. Ignoring this does nothing more than enable the further disregard by our enemies of these procedures.

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He's already literally being investigated. What are you on about?

 

[RadzPrower]

How is signaling to your advisors and would-be nominees you want some prosecutions and not others achieving that exactly?

And here is what I was saying about knockdown effects playing out in real-time:



And how do you suppose the right and the left is going to interpret this crawfishing?

Its the same song and dance as before, civility politics pursuing some fantasy West-Wing version of reality that achieves the opposite.

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Okay, so we're headed towards a "pick your favorite color of fascism" system in the United States.

I guess I should look into a job immigration plan to get the hell out of here.

 

[Deleted member 3093]

He's already literally being investigated. What are you on about?

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By the DoJ?

Okay, so we're headed towards a "pick your favorite color of fascism" system in the United States.

I guess I should look into a job immigration plan to get the hell out of here.

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Fascism doesn't mean impolite, uncivil, or even disregarding procedures, what are you talking about? There is no "both sides" to this. Addressing the disregard of procedures is not the same as disregarding procedures.

 

[Tamanon]

Why would the House need to continue the unredacting, when a)impeachment is off the table with no Trump, and b) the new DOJ can unredact whatever they want?