The one thing I can agree with Celtics fans on.
Fuck that Ted Cruz lookalike.
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The one thing I can agree with Celtics fans on.
Fuck that Ted Cruz lookalike.
PS2 above all though
Everyone look at this picture and feel yourself getting older.
Well...
Today sure was a start to the latest week in basketball, huh?
Patrick Beverly is a petty asshole and I am bewildered people finding him entertaining rather than embarrassing. Like he's only capitalizing on the CP3 slander season because this is the second time his team has been eliminated as a result of Paul.
The collapse episode on this Suns incarnation is going to be bloody ridiculous.
He's so gone and it's not even funny. I don't even mean that as hyperbole, it is genuinely sad that they couldn't just pay him what he's worth or at least give him that 5th year.
Lil Wayne, Big Man Quits.
Rockets get: CP3, a first
Suns get: John Wall, Sengun
Warning: Big Ass Ramble About Ayton and the Suns Offseason
Like, at this point the Suns have basically no leverage at this point so they're getting what they can to keep this sinking ship afloat. I admit i'm not 100% on what say a player has as an RFA in regards to a sign and trade i.e. can Phoenix say "we're throwing you to the igloo-gulag, you shall suffer in Sacramento, enjoy being part of the LoLakers, we'll take Day to Davis, etc." or does Ayton have to agree to be signed to the S&T recipient/has a veto on what team he will go to, but either way this is a complete failure on management's part and they really should just sign him for 5 years and flip him at the deadline like what the 76ers did with Ben Simmons and that whole debacle. They won't but that's their fault for not giving him the 23 year-old who's nowhere near their peak a 5-year extension, regardless of it being a max or not that they could then trade in the offseason. The relationship seems unsalvageable and the only thing you can say is that none of his teammates or coach threw him under the bus at their pressers after such an embarrassing loss. All these rumors and behind the scenes drama is just that, behind the scenes tension and drama boiling over, it's not Glenn saying Ben can't win them a championship or Embiid saying Harden is washed.
So yeah, Ayton's getting traded or he's getting picked up outright by a team with money. I'll break this into 2 sections: Teams who can sign Ayton an offer sheet outright, and the teams that can realistically sign and trade for him.
1 - The Teams With Money
As far as exploring free agency, Portland is the only team with cap space that would make some semblance of sense to go after Ayton (though what happens to Nurkic is unclear. Is he just their 6th man? Sign and traded?) in light of Dame's Twitter activity; the Spurs have Poeltl who still fits their timeline, and they are looking at drafting another big man in the 2022 class with one of their millions of firsts so I am skeptical they'd offer him the max despite having the money, the Magic's roster is a glut of 5s, and the Pacers have Turner and just got rid of Sabonis so why would they trade him after essentially retooling the Pacers around Myles. The Pistons could mayyyyyybe take a stab at Ayton's signing if they don't get Chet (which it goes without saying that if the Blazers get Chet they can also be removed from the discussion as they're either keeping him or trading that pick for an even better center to pair with Dame) but I don't know how strongly they feel about keeping Bagley who would be cheaper to retain, whether they're one of the teams who are going to try and get Jalen Smith via the MLE or just offer him more money than the MLE or if they're still going to try and flip Grant for a pick or another player that fits their timeline and roster that could be a center. Hell, they might prefer retaining Jerami with an extension using that cap space. I won't discount them, solely for the sake of not further cursing my team with anything tangentially related to the Pistons.
Oh and I forgot to mention one other thing with Portland if they do get Chet: Chet is guaranteed around $9 million and their projected pick, #6 is going to be around $5 million in year 1 so that has to be added, or rather subtracted, from any offer they can field, same as the Pistons or Pacers. Really, the Thunder are the only expectation to this, though SGA's extension does kick in this offseason. Speaking of OKC...
2 - The Teams With the Trades
As for sign and trade targets, the Thunder are always a wildcard when it comes to disgruntled stars because they have a lot of cap space and they have a disgusting number of picks but somehow I doubt Sam Presti goes for Ayton, not without getting a third or fourth team involved (I doubt the Suns are high on Derrick Favors or Muscula), and if he either lands the #1 overall pick this year or gets close enough to it to make a trade package for Chet/hope Banchero or Ivey go first overall so he can draft Holmgrem then he's likely to be out on Ayton entirely. Hell, he might just go for 2023's #1 prospect whose name eludes me at the moment since they're considered a generational big man.
That aside, it's worth keeping in mind that, with all the stuff that we do know about the Ayton situation, the front offices of the league probably have an even better idea of how bad things are for the Suns. In order words: Phoenix is fucked in terms of getting back the value Ayton should command so even if they were going to flip those picks to a 3rd or 4th team, they won't get that many picks to begin with when everyone knows Ayton doesn't want to be there.
The only real point in the Suns favor when trading Ayton isn't a great one i.e. Ayton is allegedly a problem behind closed doors, something we saw spill out yesterday and thus might lower the amount of teams bidding against one another for him but so was Kyle Lowry and Toronto took a swing on him regardless. It worked out for Lowry and the Raptors in the long-run and he became a cornerstone of that franchise. Sometimes, a player needs a change of scenery to work things out so while it's not a guarantee that Ayton changes, a bold enough front office is going to take on that risk. Maybe he's the next Lowry in terms of personal growth and maturity, maybe he stays the same like Christian Wood (again, allegedly, for all we know, Wood could be the most chill guy in the locker room although somehow I doubt that when John Wall is on the team).
The teams in the S&T category that make the most sense for Ayton are those that could use an upgrade at the 5 spot and can at least scrape something together, either to directly trade the Suns for or involving a 3rd team i.e. the Bucks are not getting Ayton with Portis and a billion seconds. Additionally, it'd have to be a team that might not be a contender but is at least a playoff team looking to move into contention, so you can scratch off "Christian Wood + Gordon for Ayton" from the list. In the East, the 3 teams that come to mind which fit that bill are the Hornets, the Bulls and of course my beloved Raptors (Knicks could be an underrated option if they skip on Mitchell and want to move on from Robinson and/or Noel but i'm assuming they're the team that will land Mitchell when the Jazz blow it up. Celtics are a fringe option who could include Al, and ship off a few picks to a 3rd team). In the West, there's the Lakers, Mavericks, Clippers and Warriors but I think we can all agree the Warriors aren't making a move for a new 5 anytime soon. They're not selling low on Wiseman and they don't have the cap to get him without risking Poole's re-signing next year if they do use Wiggins as the starting point for a trade. Mavericks, Clippers and Lakers don't have the assets to make it work and both teams have significant problems making the money work; the Mavericks in particular stick out with them having to pay their pending free agents a big ol' bag after the team made the WCF.
re: Hornets
I'll keep this one short. Of these 3 teams they can come up with the most compelling package between PJ, Kai Jones, Bouknight, picks, etc., assuming they can get a 3rd team interested that has an experienced center the Suns would like...but they won't because Michael Jordan refuses to make good trades that would improve the roster's defense i.e. him making a move for a center that doesn't improve their biggest flaw whatsoever in Montrez Harrell who, and let's be blunt about this, he is going to overpay in the offseason. On top of that, with Sarver being a cheapass racist and the Hornets needing to include Rozier or Hayward to make the money work, I doubt they'd want to take them on. Maybe a 3rd team will swallow one of their contracts?
re: The Bulls
If you had asked me before today, i'd say the Bulls had the strongest chance of the 3 to land Ayton by packaging either Coby White or Patrick Williams with Vuc and a pick, if not, moving that pick to a third team to help round off the Suns bench. I don't think this is the strongest package of these three teams that the Suns could get for Ayton even with heir lack of leverage, not by a longshot (Bulls fans in this thread have been keen to point out how much Vuc has sucked this year, especially on defense), but the Bulls have been aggressive in putting together a competitive roster and made some very smart trades so getting Ayton sounds like a slam dunk for them.
And then the news about Lonzo came out. As in their main point guard. With his continuing health problems and Coby White being their only pure PG (Caruso is good but he's more of a combo guard), I would imagine they are significantly more hesitant in moving White, and they were already allegedly apprehensive about moving him at the deadline to upgrade their defenders on the perimeter. On top of that, their biggest goal of this offseason, re-signing Zach LaVine is a major question mark and something they are going to prioritize over getting a better center. I won't discount them entirely but I think the Bulls are more likely to take a risk on Rudy Gobert with Vuc, picks and whatever else they need to get the salaries to match in the same manner that they took a risk on an aging star a la DeMar via a $30 million+.
re: Toronto
I'm going to try and not be entirely biased toward my team because there are definitely some things that might make Masai and co. hesitant on Ayton such as his alleged conflict with the Suns FO and potentially with his teammates. The Raptors are big on character and intangibles, and Ayton has that but in a rather negative fashion. Yes, the Raptors took on Lowry who had his own locker room issues prior to his change in character but that was during the Colangelo era and it wasn't like it happened over night.
There's also the money question mark and whether they want to lock up $30 million or so when part of their moves at the deadline or lack thereof was due to them not wanting to take on significant salary beyond 2023; they allegedly had a trade lined up Porzingis that fell through because of how long and enormous his contract is. And while this is a sign and trade and not technically a free agency signing, i'm not 100% sure if the Suns can dictate where an RFA is going or if Ayton has to say "I want to go to Canada, as far away as I possibly can from this godforsaken blister of a state", and I think the Raptors historic inability to sign free agents no matter the cash is a testament to how unlikely Toronto is to be on Ayton or any other RFA/UFA center's list, irrespective of money. Still, I think they're at least interested enough to start talking to the Suns FO and there are some factors working in their favor.
Let's get the obvious one out of the way: If the Suns wanted to "punish" Ayton for quitting on the team, seeking out a 5th year, etc., then this would be the one time that Toronto's reputation would actually benefit them, same as the Kawhi trade and that debacle with Pop (which is really fucked up), assuming the Suns can dictate which team an RFA can be sign and traded to. We can debate all day long about how being the King of the North is great and how Toronto is an amazing city but it has that reputation in the league despite the stellar front office and the Raptors being the team for an entire country.
As far as a return for the Suns or a 3rd team, let's take a look at the package Toronto can come up with. We can immediately rule out 3 of the starters with Siakam (Sarver is a cheapass and a racist sac of shit and Siakam is a straight up better player than Ayton i.e. better shooter, defender, and especially playmaker), Scottie (untouchable) and OG (next to untouchable barring a massive overpayment or him being packaged as part of a win-now move). Aditionally, we can rule out sign and trading Thad Young or Chris Boucher to the Suns because...why would either of them agree to that when they're both UFAs and can 100% walk or sign elsewhere without the team's input? Maybe you sign and trade them for draft capital or some bench piece to move to a 3rd team but you're going to get that much for either of them.
As far as the main players to pair with some picks and balance out the money/get a third team involved (You're not getting Ayton for Yuta + Svi + a protected first or whatever), we have:
-Fred VanVleet
-Gary Trent Jr.
-Khem Birch
-Precious Achiuwa
-Malachi Flynn
-David Johnson
-Justin Champagnie
-Dalono Banton
Of those names, toss out the other 2021 rookies since 2 of them are RFAs as well and Banton wouldn't move the needle as part of salary filler. We can also knock off Flynn barring them being shipped off to a third team for, I dunno, a second or a reclamation project the Suns or Raptors want (NAW, Udoka, whatever, i'm not really getting into it but the point is it's a player like Flynn, someone from the 2019 or 2020 draft who has underperformed and could perhaps benefit from a change of scenery or a rebuilding team is fine taking their time with).
The Suns are going to need someone at the 5 spot so there's two players, both of whom are downgrades from Ayton: Khem Birrch and Precious Achiuwa.
Given the Raptors FO are high on Precious and his salary being negligent when matching a max or close to it (say, $30+ million), i'm skeptical they would move him but Masai and co. have moved bigger pieces in the past. That said, there's only so many roster slots for the Suns to take on any sort of return and I doubt they want to send out any other key players to match salaries if Ayton gets the max or close to it. Khem Birch has not been good this season but Birch and a 1st could be moved for a better center from a 3rd team or the Suns can do what the Raptors do and just not have a traditional 5...just not with Birch, he's getting moved by them for sure.
In terms of salary, one of OG/FVV/GTJ will be required at minimum to match salaries. As mentioned, OG is the least likely of the 3 to be moved and with his injury history/availability throughout the past 2 seasons, that's not ideal despite him being an excellent defender and a catch and shoot 3-pointer.
VanVleet is...I don't know, the Raptors deciding Scottie is their point guard/center/forward and rolling with him being the team's new leader would be bold if nothing else but I doubt they're going to give him the reins just yet. More significantly, Fred is coming off of an injury and while he is a great defender for his size, his size is a problem when your lineup could potentially have two or more undersized guards i.e. under 6'3; him and Chris Paul are good defenders but they are barely 6 feet. It'd be mismatches abound should they decide to pull a Warriors 3 guard lineup with him, Booker and CP3. He is younger than CP3 but it'd be really stupid of them to trade Ayton for VanVleet or reroute him when his value is at a low despite the career high in becoming an All-Star. I also doubt the Suns place much value in his leadership and while Fred isn't necessarily old, I don't seem a rebuilding or contending team who'd jump on him as their choice for a team leader or the final piece for contending respectively despite his contract being rather easy to move.
That leaves us with Gary Trent Jr. He's definitely not taking the 2 over Booker but if the Suns wanted to pull a 3 guard lineup like the Warriors with Booker, CP3 and Trent Jr., that could be rather interesting on the offensive end, especially since Trent Jr. wouldn't be a liability on the other end since he is a crafty defender who at one point led the league in steals for the season and isn't undersized for a guard. While his shooting can be inconsistent, when he's hot, he is very hot. Additionally, he's essentially an expiring since it's almost guaranteed he declines his player option in the 2023 offseason so Sarver's cheap, racist ass won't be dipping into the luxury tax as a result, and the money he's making can easily be re-routed into an interested third team for a different center like to the Hawks for Clint Capela if they're confident enough to have Okongwu start for them over Clint and want to get something back for him.
Something like the following for a general outline works in terms of salary for all 3 teams:
Hawks: Raptors 1st, 2nd, Gary Trent Jr., Birch
Raptors: Ayton via a sign and trade
Suns: Capela
As an aside, the salary question is part of why I find the "Gobert for Ayton + picks" proposal to be baffling. If Sarver's racist ass won't pay Ayton around $30 million a year for a center that has significant upside on offense, why would he pay even more for a center that, though they are a better defender, they cannot even dribble, let alone create their own offense, who is older and has a significant risk of declining next year? But back to Gary Trent Jr.
Ever since that contract was signed, I always got the impression the front office wasn't super dedicated to keeping him. 3 years for the same money as Powell, the last of which was a player option when most of everyone else's contracts were ending in 2024 or so (Fred is extension-eligible in the offseason, same as Siakam)? It was odd, and the subsequent lack of mentioning Gary as part of the core throughout the season's early pressed screamed out "he is trade fodder" due to how easy it would be to include him and the salary of anyone else on the bench at the deadline to improve the starting lineup. Maybe that was the original intent and it changed when he had, like, 5 straight games of 30 points, maybe that's still their game plan but while Fred's height has been called into question, Trent's fit has always been a bit odd with how this team is structured. We definitely needed and still do need more outside shooting (which is one of the few arguments I feel is valid in regards to Ayton if he does join the Raptors, yes the defense gets a lot better but while his 3-point shooting this season was an improvement, the volume is low so you're going to need Scottie or Siakam to help space the floor via improving their 3-point shooting which...we'll see how much it improves in a single offseason) but in terms of the roster overall, Gary Trent Jr. is the most expendable of the starting lineup. Do I think the Suns can do better than Gary Trent Jr. + whatever they can re-route Birch and a 1st + whatever 2nd or 2nds the Raptors toss in? Yeah, I don't think it's unfair to say Ayton is a player above Gary Trent Jr.'s level but given the circumstances, he's easily one of the easiest to move or include in the roster and will make the downgrade easier to swallow.
Oh and in case you were going to ask, no the Suns are not taking on Ben Simmons and Nic Claxton. Ben is going through some serious health problems, he hasn't played in over a year and while point center Ben sounds intriguing, he is stupid expensive.
If the Suns traded for Turner, it'd be because he's an expiring contract and a center.
As an aside, bloody hilarious that the Pacers traded for one Suns center they're about to lose to an MLE due to Sarver's cheapness and the Suns might be giving them another for the same reason. Don't know if i'd take Myles for Ayton but he's definitely a better starting center than I could realistically see the Suns getting.
Oh cool, we're just ignoring that the MVP and the main runner ups are all 6'11 or higher and their losses can be largely attributed not to their faults but injuries, either to themselves (Embiid) or their teammates (Jokic carrying a G League squad and Bones Hyland, Giannis missing his Batman in Middleton).
Today sure was a start to the latest week in basketball, huh?
Patrick Beverly is a petty asshole and I am bewildered people finding him entertaining rather than embarrassing. Like he's only capitalizing on the CP3 slander season because this is the second time his team has been eliminated as a result of Paul.
The collapse episode on this Suns incarnation is going to be bloody ridiculous.
He's so gone and it's not even funny. I don't even mean that as hyperbole, it is genuinely sad that they couldn't just pay him what he's worth or at least give him that 5th year.
Lil Wayne, Big Man Quits.
If we're throwing out nonsensical trades, I have one:
Rockets get: CP3, a first
Suns get: John Wall, Sengun
Warning: Big Ass Ramble About Ayton and the Suns Offseason
Like, at this point the Suns have basically no leverage at this point so they're getting what they can to keep this sinking ship afloat. I admit i'm not 100% on what say a player has as an RFA in regards to a sign and trade i.e. can Phoenix say "we're throwing you to the igloo-gulag, you shall suffer in Sacramento, enjoy being part of the LoLakers, we'll take Day to Davis, etc." or does Ayton have to agree to be signed to the S&T recipient/has a veto on what team he will go to, but either way this is a complete failure on management's part and they really should just sign him for 5 years and flip him at the deadline like what the 76ers did with Ben Simmons and that whole debacle. They won't but that's their fault for not giving him the 23 year-old who's nowhere near their peak a 5-year extension, regardless of it being a max or not that they could then trade in the offseason. The relationship seems unsalvageable and the only thing you can say is that none of his teammates or coach threw him under the bus at their pressers after such an embarrassing loss. All these rumors and behind the scenes drama is just that, behind the scenes tension and drama boiling over, it's not Glenn saying Ben can't win them a championship or Embiid saying Harden is washed.
So yeah, Ayton's getting traded or he's getting picked up outright by a team with money. I'll break this into 2 sections: Teams who can sign Ayton an offer sheet outright, and the teams that can realistically sign and trade for him.
1 - The Teams With Money
As far as exploring free agency, Portland is the only team with cap space that would make some semblance of sense to go after Ayton (though what happens to Nurkic is unclear. Is he just their 6th man? Sign and traded?) in light of Dame's Twitter activity; the Spurs have Poeltl who still fits their timeline, and they are looking at drafting another big man in the 2022 class with one of their millions of firsts so I am skeptical they'd offer him the max despite having the money, the Magic's roster is a glut of 5s, and the Pacers have Turner and just got rid of Sabonis so why would they trade him after essentially retooling the Pacers around Myles. The Pistons could mayyyyyybe take a stab at Ayton's signing if they don't get Chet (which it goes without saying that if the Blazers get Chet they can also be removed from the discussion as they're either keeping him or trading that pick for an even better center to pair with Dame) but I don't know how strongly they feel about keeping Bagley who would be cheaper to retain, whether they're one of the teams who are going to try and get Jalen Smith via the MLE or just offer him more money than the MLE or if they're still going to try and flip Grant for a pick or another player that fits their timeline and roster that could be a center. Hell, they might prefer retaining Jerami with an extension using that cap space. I won't discount them, solely for the sake of not further cursing my team with anything tangentially related to the Pistons.
Oh and I forgot to mention one other thing with Portland if they do get Chet: Chet is guaranteed around $9 million and their projected pick, #6 is going to be around $5 million in year 1 so that has to be added, or rather subtracted, from any offer they can field, same as the Pistons or Pacers. Really, the Thunder are the only expectation to this, though SGA's extension does kick in this offseason. Speaking of OKC...
2 - The Teams With the Trades
As for sign and trade targets, the Thunder are always a wildcard when it comes to disgruntled stars because they have a lot of cap space and they have a disgusting number of picks but somehow I doubt Sam Presti goes for Ayton, not without getting a third or fourth team involved (I doubt the Suns are high on Derrick Favors or Muscula), and if he either lands the #1 overall pick this year or gets close enough to it to make a trade package for Chet/hope Banchero or Ivey go first overall so he can draft Holmgrem then he's likely to be out on Ayton entirely. Hell, he might just go for 2023's #1 prospect whose name eludes me at the moment since they're considered a generational big man.
That aside, it's worth keeping in mind that, with all the stuff that we do know about the Ayton situation, the front offices of the league probably have an even better idea of how bad things are for the Suns. In order words: Phoenix is fucked in terms of getting back the value Ayton should command so even if they were going to flip those picks to a 3rd or 4th team, they won't get that many picks to begin with when everyone knows Ayton doesn't want to be there.
The only real point in the Suns favor when trading Ayton isn't a great one i.e. Ayton is allegedly a problem behind closed doors, something we saw spill out yesterday and thus might lower the amount of teams bidding against one another for him but so was Kyle Lowry and Toronto took a swing on him regardless. It worked out for Lowry and the Raptors in the long-run and he became a cornerstone of that franchise. Sometimes, a player needs a change of scenery to work things out so while it's not a guarantee that Ayton changes, a bold enough front office is going to take on that risk. Maybe he's the next Lowry in terms of personal growth and maturity, maybe he stays the same like Christian Wood (again, allegedly, for all we know, Wood could be the most chill guy in the locker room although somehow I doubt that when John Wall is on the team).
The teams in the S&T category that make the most sense for Ayton are those that could use an upgrade at the 5 spot and can at least scrape something together, either to directly trade the Suns for or involving a 3rd team i.e. the Bucks are not getting Ayton with Portis and a billion seconds. Additionally, it'd have to be a team that might not be a contender but is at least a playoff team looking to move into contention, so you can scratch off "Christian Wood + Gordon for Ayton" from the list. In the East, the 3 teams that come to mind which fit that bill are the Hornets, the Bulls and of course my beloved Raptors (Knicks could be an underrated option if they skip on Mitchell and want to move on from Robinson and/or Noel but i'm assuming they're the team that will land Mitchell when the Jazz blow it up. Celtics are a fringe option who could include Al, and ship off a few picks to a 3rd team). In the West, there's the Lakers, Mavericks, Clippers and Warriors but I think we can all agree the Warriors aren't making a move for a new 5 anytime soon. They're not selling low on Wiseman and they don't have the cap to get him without risking Poole's re-signing next year if they do use Wiggins as the starting point for a trade. Mavericks, Clippers and Lakers don't have the assets to make it work and both teams have significant problems making the money work; the Mavericks in particular stick out with them having to pay their pending free agents a big ol' bag after the team made the WCF.
re: Hornets
I'll keep this one short. Of these 3 teams they can come up with the most compelling package between PJ, Kai Jones, Bouknight, picks, etc., assuming they can get a 3rd team interested that has an experienced center the Suns would like...but they won't because Michael Jordan refuses to make good trades that would improve the roster's defense i.e. him making a move for a center that doesn't improve their biggest flaw whatsoever in Montrez Harrell who, and let's be blunt about this, he is going to overpay in the offseason. On top of that, with Sarver being a cheapass racist and the Hornets needing to include Rozier or Hayward to make the money work, I doubt they'd want to take them on. Maybe a 3rd team will swallow one of their contracts?
re: The Bulls
If you had asked me before today, i'd say the Bulls had the strongest chance of the 3 to land Ayton by packaging either Coby White or Patrick Williams with Vuc and a pick, if not, moving that pick to a third team to help round off the Suns bench. I don't think this is the strongest package of these three teams that the Suns could get for Ayton even with heir lack of leverage, not by a longshot (Bulls fans in this thread have been keen to point out how much Vuc has sucked this year, especially on defense), but the Bulls have been aggressive in putting together a competitive roster and made some very smart trades so getting Ayton sounds like a slam dunk for them.
And then the news about Lonzo came out. As in their main point guard. With his continuing health problems and Coby White being their only pure PG (Caruso is good but he's more of a combo guard), I would imagine they are significantly more hesitant in moving White, and they were already allegedly apprehensive about moving him at the deadline to upgrade their defenders on the perimeter. On top of that, their biggest goal of this offseason, re-signing Zach LaVine is a major question mark and something they are going to prioritize over getting a better center. I won't discount them entirely but I think the Bulls are more likely to take a risk on Rudy Gobert with Vuc, picks and whatever else they need to get the salaries to match in the same manner that they took a risk on an aging star a la DeMar via a $30 million+.
re: Toronto
I'm going to try and not be entirely biased toward my team because there are definitely some things that might make Masai and co. hesitant on Ayton such as his alleged conflict with the Suns FO and potentially with his teammates. The Raptors are big on character and intangibles, and Ayton has that but in a rather negative fashion. Yes, the Raptors took on Lowry who had his own locker room issues prior to his change in character but that was during the Colangelo era and it wasn't like it happened over night.
There's also the money question mark and whether they want to lock up $30 million or so when part of their moves at the deadline or lack thereof was due to them not wanting to take on significant salary beyond 2023; they allegedly had a trade lined up Porzingis that fell through because of how long and enormous his contract is. And while this is a sign and trade and not technically a free agency signing, i'm not 100% sure if the Suns can dictate where an RFA is going or if Ayton has to say "I want to go to Canada, as far away as I possibly can from this godforsaken blister of a state", and I think the Raptors historic inability to sign free agents no matter the cash is a testament to how unlikely Toronto is to be on Ayton or any other RFA/UFA center's list, irrespective of money. Still, I think they're at least interested enough to start talking to the Suns FO and there are some factors working in their favor.
Let's get the obvious one out of the way: If the Suns wanted to "punish" Ayton for quitting on the team, seeking out a 5th year, etc., then this would be the one time that Toronto's reputation would actually benefit them, same as the Kawhi trade and that debacle with Pop (which is really fucked up), assuming the Suns can dictate which team an RFA can be sign and traded to. We can debate all day long about how being the King of the North is great and how Toronto is an amazing city but it has that reputation in the league despite the stellar front office and the Raptors being the team for an entire country.
As far as a return for the Suns or a 3rd team, let's take a look at the package Toronto can come up with. We can immediately rule out 3 of the starters with Siakam (Sarver is a cheapass and a racist sac of shit and Siakam is a straight up better player than Ayton i.e. better shooter, defender, and especially playmaker), Scottie (untouchable) and OG (next to untouchable barring a massive overpayment or him being packaged as part of a win-now move). Aditionally, we can rule out sign and trading Thad Young or Chris Boucher to the Suns because...why would either of them agree to that when they're both UFAs and can 100% walk or sign elsewhere without the team's input? Maybe you sign and trade them for draft capital or some bench piece to move to a 3rd team but you're going to get that much for either of them.
As far as the main players to pair with some picks and balance out the money/get a third team involved (You're not getting Ayton for Yuta + Svi + a protected first or whatever), we have:
-Fred VanVleet
-Gary Trent Jr.
-Khem Birch
-Precious Achiuwa
-Malachi Flynn
-David Johnson
-Justin Champagnie
-Dalono Banton
Of those names, toss out the other 2021 rookies since 2 of them are RFAs as well and Banton wouldn't move the needle as part of salary filler. We can also knock off Flynn barring them being shipped off to a third team for, I dunno, a second or a reclamation project the Suns or Raptors want (NAW, Udoka, whatever, i'm not really getting into it but the point is it's a player like Flynn, someone from the 2019 or 2020 draft who has underperformed and could perhaps benefit from a change of scenery or a rebuilding team is fine taking their time with).
The Suns are going to need someone at the 5 spot so there's two players, both of whom are downgrades from Ayton: Khem Birrch and Precious Achiuwa.
Given the Raptors FO are high on Precious and his salary being negligent when matching a max or close to it (say, $30+ million), i'm skeptical they would move him but Masai and co. have moved bigger pieces in the past. That said, there's only so many roster slots for the Suns to take on any sort of return and I doubt they want to send out any other key players to match salaries if Ayton gets the max or close to it. Khem Birch has not been good this season but Birch and a 1st could be moved for a better center from a 3rd team or the Suns can do what the Raptors do and just not have a traditional 5...just not with Birch, he's getting moved by them for sure.
In terms of salary, one of OG/FVV/GTJ will be required at minimum to match salaries. As mentioned, OG is the least likely of the 3 to be moved and with his injury history/availability throughout the past 2 seasons, that's not ideal despite him being an excellent defender and a catch and shoot 3-pointer.
VanVleet is...I don't know, the Raptors deciding Scottie is their point guard/center/forward and rolling with him being the team's new leader would be bold if nothing else but I doubt they're going to give him the reins just yet. More significantly, Fred is coming off of an injury and while he is a great defender for his size, his size is a problem when your lineup could potentially have two or more undersized guards i.e. under 6'3; him and Chris Paul are good defenders but they are barely 6 feet. It'd be mismatches abound should they decide to pull a Warriors 3 guard lineup with him, Booker and CP3. He is younger than CP3 but it'd be really stupid of them to trade Ayton for VanVleet or reroute him when his value is at a low despite the career high in becoming an All-Star. I also doubt the Suns place much value in his leadership and while Fred isn't necessarily old, I don't seem a rebuilding or contending team who'd jump on him as their choice for a team leader or the final piece for contending respectively despite his contract being rather easy to move.
That leaves us with Gary Trent Jr. He's definitely not taking the 2 over Booker but if the Suns wanted to pull a 3 guard lineup like the Warriors with Booker, CP3 and Trent Jr., that could be rather interesting on the offensive end, especially since Trent Jr. wouldn't be a liability on the other end since he is a crafty defender who at one point led the league in steals for the season and isn't undersized for a guard. While his shooting can be inconsistent, when he's hot, he is very hot. Additionally, he's essentially an expiring since it's almost guaranteed he declines his player option in the 2023 offseason so Sarver's cheap, racist ass won't be dipping into the luxury tax as a result, and the money he's making can easily be re-routed into an interested third team for a different center like to the Hawks for Clint Capela if they're confident enough to have Okongwu start for them over Clint and want to get something back for him.
Something like the following for a general outline works in terms of salary for all 3 teams:
Hawks: Raptors 1st, 2nd, Gary Trent Jr., Birch
Raptors: Ayton via a sign and trade
Suns: Capela
As an aside, the salary question is part of why I find the "Gobert for Ayton + picks" proposal to be baffling. If Sarver's racist ass won't pay Ayton around $30 million a year for a center that has significant upside on offense, why would he pay even more for a center that, though they are a better defender, they cannot even dribble, let alone create their own offense, who is older and has a significant risk of declining next year? But back to Gary Trent Jr.
Ever since that contract was signed, I always got the impression the front office wasn't super dedicated to keeping him. 3 years for the same money as Powell, the last of which was a player option when most of everyone else's contracts were ending in 2024 or so (Fred is extension-eligible in the offseason, same as Siakam)? It was odd, and the subsequent lack of mentioning Gary as part of the core throughout the season's early pressed screamed out "he is trade fodder" due to how easy it would be to include him and the salary of anyone else on the bench at the deadline to improve the starting lineup. Maybe that was the original intent and it changed when he had, like, 5 straight games of 30 points, maybe that's still their game plan but while Fred's height has been called into question, Trent's fit has always been a bit odd with how this team is structured. We definitely needed and still do need more outside shooting (which is one of the few arguments I feel is valid in regards to Ayton if he does join the Raptors, yes the defense gets a lot better but while his 3-point shooting this season was an improvement, the volume is low so you're going to need Scottie or Siakam to help space the floor via improving their 3-point shooting which...we'll see how much it improves in a single offseason) but in terms of the roster overall, Gary Trent Jr. is the most expendable of the starting lineup. Do I think the Suns can do better than Gary Trent Jr. + whatever they can re-route Birch and a 1st + whatever 2nd or 2nds the Raptors toss in? Yeah, I don't think it's unfair to say Ayton is a player above Gary Trent Jr.'s level but given the circumstances, he's easily one of the easiest to move or include in the roster and will make the downgrade easier to swallow.
Oh and in case you were going to ask, no the Suns are not taking on Ben Simmons and Nic Claxton. Ben is going through some serious health problems, he hasn't played in over a year and while point center Ben sounds intriguing, he is stupid expensive.
Lakers deserve to keep feeding the Pelicans lottery picks if they keep this up.
If the Suns traded for Turner, it'd be because he's an expiring contract and a center.
As an aside, bloody hilarious that the Pacers traded for one Suns center they're about to lose to an MLE due to Sarver's cheapness and the Suns might be giving them another for the same reason. Don't know if i'd take Myles for Ayton but he's definitely a better starting center than I could realistically see the Suns getting.
Raptors have Alex's rights I believe due to him being signed by the 905, the Raptors G League affiliate. Not 100% sure how that works so correct me if i'm wrong on that.
Oh cool, we're just ignoring that the MVP and the main runner ups are all 6'11 or higher and their losses can be largely attributed not to their faults but injuries, either to themselves (Embiid) or their teammates (Jokic carrying a G League squad and Bones Hyland, Giannis missing his Batman in Middleton).
Name the Pelicans Top 3.
Why did it just now hit me that Ayton and Doncic were in the same draft and the Suns chose the wrong lottery ticket.
Major oooooooooooof.
Major oooooooooooof.
Are you done with Fred?
Naw, and I don't think it makes sense to move him this offseason. Dude's injured, why would you trade him unless you're getting an overpayment? Like I said, I don't think the Raptors are giving Scottie the reins in year 2 or will thrust him into the role of the team's leader just yet, having him being the point center/forward/guard/wherever and Fred is extension eligible this offseason. On top of that, Fred is our only consistent 3-point shooter (Trent can get way more buckets in a game than Fred with the right looks but when he's cold, he's cold) and regardless of him or Trent being moved, they're going to need more 3-point shooting, period.
When you have an opportunity to extend a talented 23 year old with no serious injury concerns, you gotta be scared of that 5th year
I legit haven't heard a damn thing about Marvin Bagley since he was drafted.
Fun fact: His brother, Marcus Bagley, is in this draft class.
No, that is not a joke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Bagley
Bagley got fucked in a situation with a coach that didn't want him, I can't even bag on a guy who got thrown into a job where he received zero support or development on purpose.
Bagley's situation is...complicated re: the Kings/his time on the team and the role expected of him vs. his skillset and the development thereof so i'll just leave it at I hope things work out for him in Detroit or whoever throws the MLE at him. They seem to be a lot better at managing their players and roster than the Kings...not saying much but I digress.
If Suns really lose Ayton for nothing theyre Kings bad in losing luka situation IMO
And I also dont think theyre fine with Ayton, the only thing stopping Luka and Booker if theyre on same team is if they stealing each other gf.
I'd argue the Suns are worse than Kings bad if they lose Ayton for pennies on the dollar because that would be the second L they're taken on tanking a promising center's trade value and getting abysmal value out of them this very season. People forget this but they declined Jalen Smith's option because Sarver is that damn cheap, and that declination made him a UFA when he would have had an extra year on his contract and team control as an RFA...and any team that traded for him would have to contend with likely losing him due to contract wonkiness i.e. the team trading for him can only offer him about 5 million, other teams can offer him $10 million a year and they have no ability to match him.
Also as shitty as Vivek is as an owner of the Kings, I have not heard of any stories about him being a racist shithead to his players (Although I think one of his coaches during the Boogie era did say some racist crap? Don't quote me on that). If i'm wrong then by all means feel free to correct me, racism isn't a competition and all racists can get launched into the sun.
I don't think Ayton's worth the max because I am not confident the Suns will rearrange their offense around him like they should in order to justify that number. If they do extend him the max and he stays, I can see next year likely being another endless barrage of Suns fans complaining about his softness, his lack of aggression, and his underperformance while they rack up hours and hours and hours of Booker dribbling for 18 seconds and ignoring him in the paint.
He will spend his final years with his best teammate, Kuzma.
Wizards will soon be trading Beal and Kuzma for Tobias Harris and a broken Danny Green.
Anyone post this yet? I mean, I can relate but damn bro, every night can't be good for you
www.espn.com
Why Phoenix Suns star Deandre Ayton can't live without video games
When Deandre Ayton moved to the U.S. from the Bahamas to pursue his basketball career, he longed for familial connections. From NBA 2K to Call of Duty and more, gaming has helped the Phoenix Suns star create a sense of community.
OP
OP
could be 3 g league players and it wouldn't be as sad as a trumper anti-vaxxer, a child rapist and gudy gobert
2 hours a night?! How is he not a complete trainwreck health-wise?Anyone post this yet? I mean, I can relate but damn bro, every night can't be good for you
Why Phoenix Suns star Deandre Ayton can't live without video games
When Deandre Ayton moved to the U.S. from the Bahamas to pursue his basketball career, he longed for familial connections. From NBA 2K to Call of Duty and more, gaming has helped the Phoenix Suns star create a sense of community.
I mean he's 23, that covers a lot of sins
He prob naps too after practice but I still can't imagine he gets near a full night
provin' he's casual tbhthat fuckin setup tho
playing fps in giant ass screen instead 144hz monitor smh my head
/s
for a second i thought this was a stock photothat fuckin setup tho
To big and to close. His ass has a headache all day after playing that, which I guess explains the performancethat fuckin setup tho
That's Annexus Social Club, the VIP club at Footprint Arena, still though, input lag city.
Ayton seems like such a cool dude man, and he deserves to be in a program that'll maximize his potential and highlight his strengths. But get some sleep my dude.
Ayton seems like such a cool dude man, and he deserves to be in a program that'll maximize his potential and highlight his strengths. But get some sleep my dude.
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