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ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,353
So the title is "nd deserves to sprink leaks forever" and the first line in the description is "no one developer deserves to have their game leaked..."

So what's your thesis, Jim?

I guess, if we're being charitable, 'springing leaks' (having some story stuff and some cutscenes leaked) isn't the same as 'having their game leaked' (like, the whole game being available online for pirates). Loads of games have leaks of story/gameplay before official reveals/release. It always sucks but TLOU2 obviously hurts more because so many people are anticipating it more than your typical game.

I say this as someone who has watched all the leaked footage and is still chomping at the bit to play it.
 

dstarMDA

Member
Dec 22, 2017
4,289
TLDR: Sterling basically says no one devloper should have their work deflated by having the game spoiled. Not one single devloper should have their worked spoiled but Naughty Dog as a company does.

Didn't catch the "single developer" part as maybe talking about individual developers, by contrast with the company. Still strongly disagree with this though, as one can't happen without the other - it feels like taking a virtuous stance without any consideration for reality.
 

Altair

Member
Jan 11, 2018
7,901
This is going to be a long thread. I wouldn't say they deserve to have their game leaked, but the article that Jason wrote about that studio along with the various tweets from a former ND dev about the crunch there is pretty damning. They need to get that shit together ASAP.
 

Kuma

alt account
Banned
Apr 15, 2020
197
It's clear that when you're the best in the industry things like this are bound to happen I guess.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,358
This is a poor take (making a connection between criticizing bad work culture and malicious outside leaks) from an outrage salesman who's moved deeeep down the rabbit hole to propagating low-info/vapid takes. Leaks like this don't benefit workers, and the leak had no connection to the bad working conditions.

Even something as simple as Jim effectively taking rumors at face value (out of convenience to his point), but using "allegedly" to hand-wave evidence to the contrary from both (1) official statements and (2) independent reporting. The joke used to be his style mocked the excesses of UK/British tabloid types, but it just feels like he embodies it now.
 

Deleted member 24021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
4,772
I understand why his fans enjoy to gobble his ballsack, but defending this hot take? That's a whole new level of double digit IQ.
 

Greysif

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,726
While I agree that the management should be embarassed and shamed, a leak sadly will hurt the developers 100 times more than it will the actual company.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,102
I guess, if we're being charitable, 'springing leaks' (having some story stuff and some cutscenes leaked) isn't the same as 'having their game leaked' (like, the whole game being available online for pirates). Loads of games have leaks of story/gameplay before official reveals/release. It always sucks but TLOU2 obviously hurts more because so many people are anticipating it more than your typical game.

I say this as someone who has watched all the leaked footage and is still chomping at the bit to play it.
I just don't see why leaks are the appropriate punishment when it turns out it was not a disgruntled employee. I think he probably started making this video before all the information was out. His use of "allegedly" in the description is shitty as well.
 

Tiago Rodrigues

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 15, 2018
5,244
Man people really want Naughty Dog to burn huh?
Where was all this commotion during Red Dead Redemption 2's development? Or most AAA titles?
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,661
He is very clearly not doing that. Like, if you watched and paid attention to the video, you would see that he's doing the opposite.
He is saying that naughty dog deserves their games to be leaked because or crunch but the devs don't....but there is no to leak stuff without it affecting them.
 

Nakenorm

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
22,326
User Banned (1 Day) - Thread Whining
I wonder as usual how many will watch the video and how many will just drive by post to say how much they hate sterling and disagree with the premise with the title.
Thread is just 13 minutes old and the clip is 16 minutes long. We're 65 posts in. Do the math.

The OP and Video Description is all I need, I don't need to give this fool any clicks with shitty opinions like this.
 

Aurongel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,065
Sounds like he wrote the script to this before it was revealed that the leaks weren't the result of an overworked employee 🙄. I'll watch this after my morning meeting but here's hoping his thesis has more nuance to it than the clickbait title implies.

It is completely embarrassing how bad faith actors invented the "overworked leaker" narrative and that's now what jumps to most people's minds when discussing ND. Letting right wing trolls control the direction of discourse is a recipe for disaster and will not in any way shape or form lead to genuine labor reforms in this industry.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
User Banned (1 Day) - Thread Whining
Lmao Sterling literally saying a game studio's work deserves to be leaked. Why does this guy get a thread every week, on a site that doesn't tolerate lazy dev rhetoric? Because this is even worse.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,075
a couple weeks of 48 to 50 hours a day, 5 days a week isn't crunch. It's called 'overtime'.
What? Overtime is a qualification of pay beyond your fulltime hours. Everyone working during a period of crunch are technically already working overtime hours, since "crunch" begins the moment an employee starts to consistently clock in overtime. I'm not sure what distinction you're trying to make here.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
Thats a horrible fuckin take. The leak doesn't just affect higher ups at ND and Sony but all the developers that have put time and effort into the game for years.
Too bad we have a bunch of edgy fucks in here who think ND leadership is going "You know what, this leak has really made us change our opinion on crunching" when they literally have nothing to do with one another and this, if anything, punishes all the developers more because people are seeing their work before it's complete and polished and making judgements based on it
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,102
This is a poor take (making a connection between criticizing bad work culture and malicious outside leaks) from an outrage salesman who's moved deeeep down the rabbit hole to propagating low-info/vapid takes. Leaks like this don't benefit workers, and the leak had no connection to the bad working conditions.

Even something as simple as Jim effectively taking rumors at face value (out of convenience to his point), but using "allegedly" to hand-wave evidence to the contrary from both (1) official statements and (2) independent reporting. The joke used to be his style mocked the excesses of UK/British tabloid types, but it just feels like he embodies it now.
Very articulate encapsulation of why I've gone from being indifferent to Jim to really disliking his content.
 

We_care_a_lot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,157
Summerside PEI
While I agree that the management should be embarassed and shamed, a leak sadly will hurt the developers 100 times more than it will the actual company.
How? Reduced sales? I seriously doubt that is going to be the case with this game, in particular. It's going to be the blockbuster release of the summer and that has not changed.

I've heard stories that staff morale is low because of the leak but I've also heard stories that their working conditions are garbage. I agree that a leak hurts the devs but i don't think it's going to hurt the devs as much as the marketing deparment.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
Quite evident which users watched the video and which ones didn't. The point is that even if the disgruntled employee narrative was a hoax, the actual issues with ND (the crunches, the abuse allegations, their questionable use of LGBTQ+ characters, etc.) absolutely deserve to keep being pointed out, even if they are unrelated to the leak per se. It's too bad most comments are quite transparent in their side picked (whichever it is).
 

ElephantShell

10,000,000
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,916
Why are people surprised that nobody is watching a video with a premise so shitty? It'd be like me posting a video called "watch me eat dog shit for 20 minutes" and being all confused that nobody is watching it.
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,499
Love to bully game devs by advocating for their health and workers rights lol

You can advocate for their rights without suggesting stuff like this. I get where he's coming from, honestly, but ultimately he seems to forget that a 'company' isn't a homogenous singular entity. The company being punished means that every single person that works within that company is punished. The argument being made is just illogical because the victims of the poor working conditions are still hurt.

Any dev that works at a studio will tell you that it's the people that make that studio what it is. You can't separate the developer from the studio in that sense. They're one in the same.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,752
I just don't see why leaks are the appropriate punishment when it turns out it was not a disgruntled employee. I think he probably started making this video before all the information was out. His use of "allegedly" in the description is shitty as well.
I just don't understand why he brings up the leaks at all.

In the wake of discussion over the leak's source, however, one important point has been drowned out...
Best to drown it out some more by bringing up the leaks! Instead of, I dunno, talking about the crunch culture?
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
This is a poor take (making a connection between criticizing bad work culture and malicious outside leaks) from an outrage salesman who's moved deeeep down the rabbit hole to propagating low-info/vapid takes. Leaks like this don't benefit workers, and the leak had no connection to the bad working conditions.

Even something as simple as Jim effectively taking rumors at face value (out of convenience to his point), but using "allegedly" to hand-wave evidence to the contrary from both (1) official statements and (2) independent reporting. The joke used to be his style mocked the excesses of UK/British tabloid types, but it just feels like he embodies it now.

Not just this, but the original rumour wasn't that the leaker stole and shared the content because of the working conditions, but because they were unpaid, something that hasn't historically been reported with Sony or ND. Infact, ND is actually known for paying well, and during this Covid-19 situation they actually paid staff extra.

Jim has essentially added in his own meta narrative to the disgruntled employee thing (to be fair, so did countless others), to try and make his preferred argument stick.

In a way, I'm glad he's grilling ND for crunch, but I just think it's dangerous and somewhat malicious to link or justify it visa the moral credibility of huge leaks, especially when the latter harms and hurts the devs in question themselves.
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,759
He can fuck right off with this garbage take. THis hurts the devs. What a moronic take to see to start off the week
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,309
Quite evident which users watched the video and which ones didn't. The point is that even if the disgruntled employee narrative was a hoax, the actual issues with ND (the crunches, the abuse allegations, their questionable use of LGBTQ+ characters, etc.) absolutely deserve to keep being pointed out, even if they are unrelated to the leak per se. It's too bad most comments are quite transparent in their side picked (whichever it is).
If Jim had a worthwhile point to make he really undermined himself with his typical provocativeness. I don't blame anyone for just reacting to the title. That's all on Jim
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
i dont understand how this guy has a following. i attempted to watch this video and honestly the whole premise is stupid. Leaks hurt the people who actually put in all these hours to work on these games.

The only leaks these companies deserve is to leak poor working conditions, poor management and help to change their work culture.