• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,923
Better than assuming that a vocal minority that doesn't matter anyway will affect sales when they won't.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree with it. There are currently thousands of pissed off fans across the internet over the leaks. I just have a very hard time believing that won't affect the sales at all. Now if you said they wouldn't have a major impact then yeah I would agree. But no impact at all? No way I can agree with that.
 

jwhit28

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,048
Is the "last few days have been incredibly difficult for you" just in reference to spoilers?
 
Dec 27, 2019
6,068
Seattle
This is ridiculous shit. You don't force everyone to suffer because you are. This idea you're free to break the law because your company is being shitty is ridiculous and is not going to end well for this leaker or anyone who does this stuff.
I'm extremely well-acquainted with the benefits of direct action. This type of action is the only thing that makes things better.
ND is a company but I'm not concerned about the top being affected by this. I'm angry that people who worked on this game for years are being punished(who have NOTHING to do with pay)
The owners are going to lose money if this affects sales. The devs aren't going to lose anything.
 

Lord Fanny

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
25,953
If they broke a contract, why should they not be?

As I've said, it's not about whether it should or shouldn't , legal or illegal, it's about actively wishing for someone's life to be destroyed over spoilers for a video game. There's a bloodlust to destroy a person and his career, his life, his freedom because of...spoilers for a video game.

That crazy to me.
 

lemonade

Member
May 8, 2018
3,044
I'm mystified as to why some people are actually praising whoever did this. How does spoiling years of your coworkers' hard efforts fix anything? I can't imagine how sick I'd feel if I'd spent that much time on a project, poured that much of myself into such a big team effort, only to have it unceremoniously shoved on the internet before it was ready. All it does is distract from any of the real problems at Naughty Dog, and inflict even more damage on morale. Anybody thinking this is some kind of "justice" haven't got the first fucking clue.

This is what happens when people browse Era for too long and becomes a contrarian that loves claiming faux moral high ground.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,577
Texas
I won't go as far as claiming it'll have no impact, but do you care to put a rough qualifier around what a "nosedive" in sales means? Do you think it'll be something more like 10% or 30%, for instance, and what are you basing that feeling on in the light of games like KH3 and FF7R selling like gangbusters despite heavy leaks?
 

itspapagreg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
336
I'm sure it means nothing but I just got an email from Walmart with an estimated release date of Friday, June 19th
 

ABIC

Banned
Nov 19, 2017
1,170
It's really unfortunate this has happened. Sony was really between a rock and a hard place in delaying/maintaining the release date.

And we still have 53 days to go before release.. so, this would probably only get worse.
 

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,179
I have put the ignore thread function to good use over the last few days. This one's fucking going on the pile too lol

I'm sure it means nothing but I just got an email from Walmart with an estimated release date of Friday, June 19th

Well good news my man - that is the confirmed date, just announced today 👍
 

Timeaisis

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,139
Austin, TX
It's a terrible way to protest that will result in the person being blackballed from the industry, this is not excusing the working conditions if they are bad but this is the worst possible way to handle it and will only result in negative things happening to them not ND over this.

Like I said, it's a terrible move and they will never work for a Sony first party ever again. But...they wouldn't do something so crazy if they didn't feel justified. Now why?
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
As I've said, it's not about whether it should or shouldn't , legal or illegal, it's about actively wishing for someone's life to be destroyed over spoilers for a video game. There's a bloodlust to destroy a person and his career, his life, his freedom because of...spoilers for a video game.

That crazy to me.
You make a decision like that all of things get destroyed. A guy went to prison for not giving up admin passwords and had to pay restitution tona company. This was the stupidest thing that person could've done and honestly hurts everyone not just the upper management. There are way better ways to combat a company Than this.
 

Deleted member 46489

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
1,979
I'm not trying to justify what the leaker did at all, but I do wonder if this was a mental health issue. As in, what kind of sane, healthy individual would do this to their life and career?
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
Yes, being disappointed and sad is perfectly valid, but talking about being DESTROYED is an exaggeration

Sorry but you aren't someone that worked on this game. Acting like you are the only arbiter of what is an acceptable response to something like this is bogus.

Someone completely random just sent me (a long with a group of 80 or so people) a message on PSN spoiling it.

Nowhere is safe. This is so fucked.

Yeah I turned off messages not from my friends on PSN a long time ago because of this crap. Sorry to hear that.
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
I'm not trying to justify what the leaker did at all, but I do wonder if this was a mental health issue. As in, what kind of sane, healthy individual would do this to their life and career?
Without knowing what was said to them we can only guess. Maybe ND and Sony played hardball. Maybe they wanted something insane compensation wise. Who knows
 

Minky

Verified
Oct 27, 2017
481
UK
Are you saying spoilers will ruin the game? I do think he's unjustified, at this point, but maybe this is his way of protesting poor work conditions. You lack context, and so do I. Your argument is equivalent to workers shouldn't go on strike because it hurts other employees. I'm not arguing either of these things are morally right, but let's not let knee-jerk reactions get the best of us here. There is clearly more to this story.
No doubt that we don't yet know the full extent of what's happened behind the scenes, but there are far, far more constructive ways to protest poor working conditions than to throw your entire team under the bus. I'm all for action that pushes for positive change, but there is nothing positive about this. There's a huge difference between spoilers and industrial sabotage. We have NDAs for a reason.
This is what happens when you browse Era for too long and becomes a contrarian that loves claiming a faux moral high ground.
Sorry, bit confused; not sure if you're directing that at me or the crowd I'm referring to? Really hoping it's the latter!
 

TitlePending

The Fallen
Dec 26, 2018
5,339
Terrible situation.

But people who end up watching spoilers are not buying the game because they saw everything probably were not going to buy it anyways when they could just watch someone stream the entire thing over two days.

As I've said, it's not about whether it should or shouldn't , legal or illegal, it's about actively wishing for someone's life to be destroyed over spoilers for a video game. There's a bloodlust to destroy a person and his career, his life, his freedom because of...spoilers for a video game.

That crazy to me.

Personal harm is certainly out of the question. But will the individual's name be blacklisted and therefore unlikely to be hired again by another studio? Most likely.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,496
North Carolina
Seeing what Naughty Dog posted, I'm somewhat bothered that they do not say 'the leaked information is not true." Instead, "it's disappointing to see the release and sharing of pre-release footage from development." It makes me wonder how much Naughty Dog (and Sony) knows about the leak after the fact or leading up to the leak.

If that's the case for the leaker in question, he/she better have a good lawyer because they are going to wish they were under the jail when Sony is done with them.
Legit cutscenes are out in the wild. It would be far more idiotic to claim the leaks are fake at this point.
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,119
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Seeing what Naughty Dog posted, I'm somewhat bothered that they do not say 'the leaked information is not true." Instead, "it's disappointing to see the release and sharing of pre-release footage from development." It makes me wonder how much Naughty Dog (and Sony) knows about the leak after the fact or leading up to the leak.

If that's the case for the leaker in question, he/she better have a good lawyer because they are going to wish they were under the jail when Sony is done with them.
There's noting to deny. These are literal videos from the game, they're obviously real.
 

SpookyTango

Member
Mar 1, 2020
347
I'm not sure how you would ever actually prove sales were negatively impacted, unless pre-orders fall of a cliff or sales are way down compared to the first game.

I think both are entirely unlikely to happen and sales will be very very good. Covid-19 and the ongoing fall-out from it will likely have a greater impact on sales than these leaks will.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,923
I won't go as far as claiming it'll have no impact, but do you care to put a rough qualifier around what a "nosedive" in sales means? Do you think it'll be something more like 10% or 30%, for instance, and what are you basing that feeling on in the light of games like KH3 and FF7R selling like gangbusters despite heavy leaks?
If I had to put a number to my opinion I would say 10-20% because there seems to be a lot of angry people out there. And I am only going by the anger in response to these leaks. It kind of reminds of the leaks surrounding RoS. That to me means there is probably gonna be a corresponding dip in sales.

Once again that's just my opinion though.
 

Haribo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
979
I mean sure if all you want from games are their plot overviews in textual form.
also

dozens_of_us_arrested_development.gif
I mean you take a dozen people out that's still less than you had before all this. The major plot points have clips attached so its not just text. Some of them are in high quality gif form in your nearest comment section lol. Hopefully we get some official gameplay to take our minds off of the major stuff.
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,546
I'll admit that I can't help but wonder what kind of state the leaker was in or how bad things were that they felt justified to take action in such a way. Or maybe they're just that kind of person. I can understand the raw emotion behind it and the feeling of power and control that they probably felt when they did it, especially if you already feel wronged. But the consequences will be grave; it doesn't just hurt other people, but also torches your entire career in the process.
 

Herey

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,409
You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree with it. There are currently thousands of pissed off fans across the internet over the leaks. I just have a very hard time believing that won't affect the sales at all. Now if you said they wouldn't have a major impact then yeah I would agree. But no impact at all? No way I can agree with that.
Mate, we get it. You didn't like what you saw. Move on, quit with the dramatics.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
Now is a good time to start using a video blocker and backlist some keywords on twitter/tweetdeck

what i use is

Video Blocker

chrome.google.com

Video Blocker

Block YouTube videos from any channel you want.

Unspoiler

chrome.google.com

Unspoiler

Don't let the internet spoil your TV! Block headlines, tweets, facebook posts and everything with Unspoiler.

tweetdeck and the twitter site don't sync your mute list so make sure to do it twice.

here's my list
oY4hs8O.png

Who is abby and skirrako? Those are tlou2 names?

I would add Dina to your list as well.
 

MrS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,085
It sucks that it leaked and I feel bad for ND. Having said that, I really enjoy seeing spoiler stuff and the info we saw makes me giddy for what we're gonna get in June. Honestly can't wait.
 
Dec 27, 2019
6,068
Seattle
Like I said, it's a terrible move and they will never work for a Sony first party ever again.
This isn't really the threat you think it is. Game "careers" last a handful of years. Most people ship one or two games at most, and then leave the industry. It's a horrible, abusive, exploitative industry, and unless you're an owner/executive, you're probably dreaming of something better.
 

RedDevil

Member
Dec 25, 2017
4,121
I don't get people praising the leaker, but I don't get people calling them the scum of earth either. In the end if a NDA contract was violated they'll likely have to face the corresponding consequences.
 

Dynedom

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,666
Anyone remember that Youtube plugin which blocks videos based on keywords? I have it on my desktop back home but not on my work laptop. I absolutely expect all sorts of bullshit on Youtube over the next weeks.

The plugin was perfect for ensuring Spiderman the Video game, End Game, etc were not spoiled for me.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,577
Texas
If I had to put a number to my opinion I would say 10-20% because there seems to be a lot of angry people out there. And I am only going by the anger in response to these leaks. It kind of reminds of the leaks surrounding RoS. That to me means there is probably gonna be a corresponding dip in sales.

Once again that's just my opinion though.
I think that there are much larger factors at play that will reduce sales than angry people on Twitter, like the global pandemic that has temporarily killed off a ton of the US and global economy. I think that the amount of angry nonbuyers due to the leak will be a rounding error. Either way, it's something that is impossible to quantify unless we get specific tracking of cancelled preorders from Benji or someone else in the know around the timing of this leak. I just don't think that thousands of angry people on the hot take machine that is Twitter will actually correlate to hundreds of thousands of lost sales in reality.

Rise of Skywalker was more impacted by coming off of a very divisive installment and poor word of mouth after its release rather than the leaks themselves. Not a single person that I know in real life read the leaks but still heard it was shit from myself and other people they knew so they avoided it.
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
Like I said, it's a terrible move and they will never work for a Sony first party ever again. But...they wouldn't do something so crazy if they didn't feel justified. Now why?
They will never work in games again, no game studio heck depending no tech studio would want to hire someone that did broke nda like this. This is
effectively killing a career in an extremely bad move.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree with it. There are currently thousands of pissed off fans across the internet over the leaks. I just have a very hard time believing that won't affect the sales at all. Now if you said they wouldn't have a major impact then yeah I would agree. But no impact at all? No way I can agree with that.
Yes no impact at all. I don't believe for a second this will affect sales and it's just like all the other bs that some pretend that it's going to massively affect something and than nothing.
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
I'm extremely well-acquainted with the benefits of direct action. This type of action is the only thing that makes things better.
The owners are going to lose money if this affects sales. The devs aren't going to lose anything.
This is a quixotic sentiment. It would be great if you were right, and I hope you are, but you're assuming a lot here.
 

Deleted member 2441

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
655
cause this is an inspiring act of sabotage

This hurts their colleagues, the many great people who worked their fucking ass off to make this game. The people who crunched for years to get this thing out the door. Imagine working all those days and nights, putting all you have into making this the best creative work you can... and then someone leaks it.

If you think this hurts Naughty Dog as a company much you're living in the land of the fairies. This hurts every artist, animator, writer, musician, engineer etc. far, far more than it hurts Naughty Dog or Sony. This isn't going to stop crunch or injustices in game dev, it just makes everyone's crunch feel like it wasn't worth it.

I've seen first hand how devastating leaks are to colleagues, even accidental ones. For it to be this malicious and this big, it's going to hurt them immeasurably.

You should try living in the real world.