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Deleted member 23850

Oct 28, 2017
8,689

The Rinzai school of Zen, in Japanese Buddhism, has an unusual tradition of higher thought. As astrophysicist David Darling explains in his book Zen Physics: The Science of Death, the Logic of Reincarnation, it puts "the intellect to work on problems that have no logical solution." The point of such exercises, Darling writes, "is to induce a kind of intellectual catastrophe," or a "sudden jump which lifts the individual out of the domain of words and reason into a direct, non-mediated experience."

It's a kind of holy rite for the super-cerebral: problem-solving as religion.

Darling's account of the "intellectual catastrophe" in Buddhism appears toward the end of the video game The Witness, hidden on a tape recorder that only the eagle-eyed will find and play. It proves very illuminating. "It's not exactly a mission statement," Jonathan Blow, the game's reclusive, ridiculously brilliant creator told me several years ago, when I spoke with him for a profile. "But it is an analogy. We can do some very interesting things if we put down language as a crutch for communication. That's the experiment of this game: just don't use language at all. I wanted to see what kinds of knowledge and experience we could build up without it."

Released in 2016, The Witness is a puzzle game. Rather it's the puzzle game. By the standards of scale and complexity, it seems pretty much definitive, an unimprovable exemplar of the form. The Witness is set on a large, uninhabited island furnished, maybe by the hand of God, with an enormous number of gridded, chessboard-sized puzzles, elaborately wired and fixed to various doors, walls, fences and trees. Each puzzle has the same objective: to maneuver a slim line from one end of the board to the other. The obstacles introduced over the course of the game to impede that objective, however, are wildly frustrating and utterly ingenious — a catalogue of impediments involving sound, light, and colour that'll challenge, and ultimately blow, your mind. There are more than 600 puzzles arranged across the island. It could take a hundred hours or more to solve them all.

What say you, Era?
 

VN1X

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,027
I liked The Talos Principle a whole lot more myself. Managed to 100% that without any guides whatsoever. The Witness' puzzles simply got too hard for my puny brain and I didn't manage to complete it without resorting to outside help, which sort of defeats the purpose and cheapens the experience unfortunately. Lovely game up till that point mind you. Really clever and ambitious.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 23850

Oct 28, 2017
8,689
I liked The Talos Principle a whole lot more myself. Managed to 100% that without any guides whatsoever. The Witness' puzzles simply got too hard for my puny brain and I didn't manage to complete it without resorting to outside help, which sort of defeats the purpose and cheapens the experience unfortunately. Lovely game up till that point mind you. Really clever and ambitious.

How come I've never heard of this game before?
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,476
Seattle
Absolutely brilliant game, though definitely not for everyone. I was immediately sucked in and my life revolved around scribbled notes and frustration until I earned the platinum trophy - my first for any game - and put it aside, satisfied but still wondering what other secrets lurked within.
 

Cokie Bear

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,944
I liked it but it got too difficult for me to finish. I much preferred Talos Principle.
 

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
16,150
It's wonderful. I can't think of another game that made me feel like I was going mad with power.

Realizing for the first time that you can manipulate and 'solve' the world around you was pretty great.

Still, Bloodborne and Journey exist, so not the best game of the decade.
 

7threst

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,297
Netherlands
I know this is a thread on The Witness but now I crave for The Talos Principle after looking that game up after the posts in this thread lol.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,212
It's definitely among my favorites this decade. Very clever game that iterated incredibly well on a simple mechanic. You can write an essay on how well the hand of the designer guides you throughout the game, how it teaches you to think, play and see meaning in arbitrary shapes.
 
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Avada Kedavra

Banned
Jan 23, 2019
756
The puzzle aspects of The Talos Principle are far too formulatic. It completely lacks the design intricacies of The Witness or the technical prowess of Portal 2. It has a great atmosphere though but overall it doesn't hold a candle to The Witness.
 

Earthed

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Sep 26, 2019
494
Incredible game. The notion that The Talos Principle holds a candle to this kinda boggles the mind.
 

Emergency & I

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,634
Yeah, The Witness is as tight as they come. It deserves every accolade and every bit of hyperbole it ever receives.
 

MickZan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,404
The Witness is still the best puzzle game I have played. It's one of those game realised with a vision and it shows.
 

Snarfington

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,927
Absolutely agree. It's a masterpiece through and through, crafted carefully around a simple concept that's eventually built to blow your mind.
 

panda-zebra

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,735
The Witness was brillliant. I never finished it, though. I hit it hard and was enjoying it but life got in the way. When I came back a few weeks later, I was presented with a whole load of WTF... I couldn't continue, I'd forgotten enough of the rules to make progress impossible. Starting over after getting so far in and discovering so many of those hidden scenes seemed too much hassle. I deeply regret ruining this game for myself, it was magical :/ Maybe I'll go back many years from now when I know I can tackle the whole thing uninterrupted.
 

Woiwode

Banned
Sep 18, 2019
263
If you are willing to put up with it. It is one of gaming best experiences. Discovering the twist is just amazing and some people finsh the game without ever seeing it.
Except the sound puzzels. They can go to hell.
 

ShadowAUS

Member
Feb 20, 2019
2,106
Australia
I recognise the merits of The Witness but... uh... I kind of hated it. In fact my thoughts and experience 100% mirror Super Bunnyhop's opinion on it.


I liked The Talos Principal more but those two games made me realise that I just hate games that revolve around puzzles (and that I'm incredibly dumb). I understand why it would be someones GotD but it's close to the bottom of mine sadly :( I wish I loved it like a lot of my friends do.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,378
I liked The Talos Principle a whole lot more myself. Managed to 100% that without any guides whatsoever. The Witness' puzzles simply got too hard for my puny brain and I didn't manage to complete it without resorting to outside help, which sort of defeats the purpose and cheapens the experience unfortunately. Lovely game up till that point mind you. Really clever and ambitious.
Yeah, Talos Principle is absolutely amazing
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
I loved The Witness, but like so many I was unable to finish it. I refused to look at a guide or take any hints, and I managed to finish every individual area and get down into the bowels of the final area, but I hit a wall on one of the last few panels and just could not get past it. I've tried to go back and look at it with fresh eyes, but stepping away from the game for any length of time means I forget the rules of each symbol, and at this point I'd probably have to start over from the beginning again.
 

Chamon

Member
Feb 26, 2019
1,221
Haven't played The Talos Principle, but The Witness is a Master Piece. I fully agree with the OP.
 

Ojli

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,652
Sweden
It is a very well crafted game. Unsure if any major changes were patched after release, but it shipped in a very good state, not something a lot of games can say. The largest detractor of the game is the obtuse meta audio logs that can be found around the island. It was for sure in my top 3 games of 2016, alongside INSIDE and Stardew.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 23850

Oct 28, 2017
8,689
I think another question is...was anybody hesistant to play it because Jonathan Blow made it? Dude rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
 

Tennis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,356
It's an awesome game but the ending ruined it for me. It's not rational but the final clip is all I can think about when somebody mentions the game lol
 

Nekyrrev

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,121
It's clearly one of the best games I've played. The game and world designs are fucking incredible, just brilliant. Couldn't recommend it enough.
 

Elodes

Looks to the Moon
Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,231
The Netherlands
Huh, I hadn't thought of it, but I guess it's very defensible. The Witness really is a work of extraordinary vision, pure and rich and astounding. It's got that fatal combination of being incredibly ambitious while at the same time being breathtakingly elegant.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
The Witness is genius-level game design. It's definitely one of my favorites of the last few years.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,624
It's definitely one of my favourite games this decade. Design wise, it's one of the best puzzle games out there and the gradual unravelling of mechanics and all the secrets in the world is amazing.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
I beat the game, did every puzzle I think (including the timer based one), and at the end of it I had no idea what was going on. If there was a story it sure didn't click. Just seemed like a puzzle game to me.
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
I'm into the genre of "wander a deserted sunny cartoon world" but I can't stand puzzle games like this. Feels like such a waste of a medium.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
A fantastic game, though a little "Blow pretentious" when it came to its attempted narrative goals. Small matter, though.

Baba is You might take home my bet for dollar for dollar most incredible puzzles, but the Witness world design and overarching path are really something else. Beautiful, too.
 

Agent 47

Banned
Jun 24, 2018
1,840
I gave it a fair shake but dropped it after a couple of hours, it was pretty boring.
 

daegan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,897
I think signing off on it as a "puzzle game" really does a disservice to your more barebones & approachable puzzle games.

The Witness was good, but drank far too much of its own kool-aid with the documentary clips and whatnot, and parts of the game are unsolvable for the colorblind which is uncool in a puzzle-based game.

That said I think it's the *exact* type of game that a traditional catch-all outlet can say is game of the decade without anyone batting an eye.

Here's the author's overall top 10, which is pretty good IMO:
10. Her Story
9. The Stanley Parable
8. L.A. Noire
7. Undertale
6. Bloodborne
5. Life is Strange
4. Portal 2
3. Cuphead
2. Red Dead Redemption 2
1. The Witness
 

Zodzilla

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,233
Playing The Witness was akin to being the Amy Adams character in Arrival. It's not so much a puzzle game as it is a language game. Once you learn the language, you start to view the world differently in the terms of said language.

it affected me so deeply that, like the character in Arrival, thinking in that language started permeate into my actual real life outside of the game. Of course, it was all nonsense, but pattern recognition of seeing a dot and line in the open really created some sort of weird Pavlovian response wherein I wanted to solve a non existent puzzle.

I played only a couple of hours of the Talos Principle, but I never got the sense that it was anything more than a stack of environmental puzzles coupled with a mysterious storyline. So unsure if the two are really comparable.
 

Ryo Hazuki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,470
The Talos Principle is one of my favourite games of all time. The Witness is also amazing and they both deserve to be played.