Narrative in Video Games: is it time to abandon film-like storytelling techniques?

[RestEerie]

I didn't play God of War, but I think my biggest gripe in storytelling in Horizon was how Aloy constantly talked to herself. Apparently the developers were not confident enough in the players to understand her character, the story, or the next objective that they had to have her give play-by-play commentary on every step she took. A lot of story-heavy games do this, come to think of it. They shouldn't. It's annoying.

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how is 'talking with oneself in the wild' annoying?

It's totally something i will do (and i am doing) whenever i am out in the wild by myself hiking. I don't say it out loud obviously but i do mumble my thoughts out every so often while i am hiking ("Jesus, not another fucking uphill climb!!" "Man, the weather's humid as hell!" etc) and i am not the only one when i asked my hiking friends.

Maybe people living in the cities find it weird talking to yourself but saying your thoughts out loud is totally a thing when you are out by yourself in the wild and going by Horizon ZD's setting and how Aloy is by herself most of the time, the constant self-talk is actually pretty accurate.

It will be really weird if a person becomes a mute when there's no one around.

 

[Soneji]

Cutscenes should be used when appropriate, as there are still moments where they are the superior choice narratively. The way developers like Naughty Dog abuse them though I'm not a fan of, and the pedestal rather pedestrian stories like that of TLOU get I think are detrimental to the overall growth of narratives in games.

 

[Deleted member 29682]

No more FMVs though. Just stop.

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[RestEerie]

Doesn't Blizzard still do them as well?

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ah...of course blizzard too...but are the cinematics in blizzard (recent) games really telling a story or is it just to flex their CG budget? Most of diablo 3, Starcraft 2's cutscene are just nonsense CG flexing than telling a story...(IMO)

 

[Deleted member 47700]

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Now I'm annoyed I didn't respond to them with this:

 

[Deleted member 56580]

I don't care as long as it delivers the story. No more FMVs though. Just stop.

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That's some dynamite level take

 

[eso76]

Devs have been trying to move a lot of exposition to gameplay sections (TLOU, RDR2) or sections where you're still in -limited- control anyway, rather than resorting to cutscenes and environmental storytelling can go a long way.

Still those can't always replace a cutscene and games are played on the same device we use to watch movies; they would obviously borrow from a language that is the best way we know to tell a story on a screen; the result of several decades of experimenting and refining.

 

[Deleted member 37739]

As someone who gets very frustrated that most modern novels read like audio description for a film, you have my sympathies, OP. Games sometimes look to film as a benchmark to aspire to in storytelling, but honestly, they have the capacity to tell their own stories in completely unique ways: games like Papers Please, Undertale and others are great examples of the medium doing things on their own terms.

 

[Rosenkrantz]

Why would you advocate for less diversity in storytelling?

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Not really. I'm arguing that developing storytelling techniques that rely on the strength of the medium is more beneficial in a long run than reliance on film-esque narrative.

However, I won't deny that there's a place for TellTale and LiS like games, even tho I would prefer devs to take What Remains of Edith Finch and Gone Home approach.

 

[VaporSnake]

I'm curious to see how real full length story based games deal with this in VR, like can you even do a proper cutscene in VR?

 

[dgrdsv]

I don't care generally but I agree that it's lame to have a game with FMVs or even in-engine cutscenes in 2020s, 22 years after Half-Life 1 has shown how it should be done in games.

 

[Quacktion]

I am appalled that Half Life didnt come up in this topic ONCE (until one post above mine) while being THE poster child for what OP is talking about, seamless storytelling during gameplay, ERA you slippin.

I do like my cutscenes tho so I can go either or.

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

This whole argument reeks of some of the awful insular tendencies "gamers" tend to have where things get lambasted for not being "video game" enough.
Just because something isn't completely unique to video games doesn't mean we have to throw it away.

No more FMVs though. Just stop.

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I am fine with FMVs as long as they show something the in-game assets can't. Control is a great example.
I really hate FMVs that are just a compressed CG video using the in game assets though. I can spot the difference in picture quality compared to the in game stuff and it's distracting.

 

[Ananasas]

What are any good story telling that only game could do?

 

[Sadnarav]

Not really. I'm arguing that developing storytelling techniques that rely on the strength of the medium is more beneficial in a long run than reliance on film-esque narrative.

However, I won't deny that there's a place for TellTale and LiS like games, even tho I would prefer devs to take What Remains of Edith Finch and Gone Home approach.

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How the Telltale and Life is Strange games are not relying in the strength of the medium to tell their stories when the whole point of those game are the interactivity and your choices?

 

[chipperrip]

I just started DMC5, and losing control to a cutscene every two minutes is killing it for me.

I think there's room for both approaches, but it's hard to do either competently. Most of the time the cutscenes are too long, poorly written, or kill you with ludo-narrative dissonance, and the gameplay only approach done poorly can feel lifeless.

I prefer a gameplay focused approach.

 

[dskzero]

What are any good story telling that only game could do?

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Exploration and gameplay based storytelling like walking sims, Undertale and Spec ops: The Line.

 

[Linus815]

for certain types of games, cutscenes simply work very well and are a delight. When you have high quality stuff like RDR 2 or TLOU, I'm all for it.

Sure. A game like Ghost Recon Wildlands probably could do without cutscenes, though...

 

[Raonak]

I like cutscenes, it's nice to be able to put down the controller for a few minutes and fully absorb the story presented.

I way prefer that to audiologs which i'm only half paying attention to while trying to do something, or lord forbid intel documents.
Even stuff like standing next to a character listenting to dialog is annyoing. Atleast give me some nice visuals and/or camera angles.

Stuff like environmental storytelling only works for certain types of stories too.

I can 100% say that the gameplay heavy, DMC3, wouldn't be near as memorable if it weren't for the cutscenes which contextualise the world.
The best part is that they actually book-end the levels, the fact they're disconnected from the gameplay means you can skip them in level replays, etc.

 

[Camisado]

As long as the story is delivered cleanly and effectively I'm not fussed how it's done.

I can say that it's much harder to have a 'moment' when you leave a player in control (what if they are just staring at the floor?) but in my experience those moments can be a lot more powerful.

 

[dex3108]

If someone shows me the game that managed to tell great story with deep characters without using cutscenes maybe I will change my mind. Until then I vote for cutscenes.

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

What are any good story telling that only game could do?

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Environmental story telling is the only thing that comes to mind.
Piecing together story or world building elements from the environment you explore is not something you will see in any other medium.

 

[Exist 2 Inspire]

Nah, cutscenes are great.

 

[Deleted member 45414]

Environmental story telling is the only thing that comes to mind.
Piecing together story or world building elements from the environment you explore is not something you will see in any other medium.

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Any visual media can do environmental story telling, it's not exclusive to games.

 

[Sahasrahla]

Video games need to follow the "show not tell" formula more in general. Don't make me go through lengthy tutorials that explain things through text boxes, make the first levels introduce the gameplay to me. Let me choose how much I want to talk to NPCs. I really like this in many Western RPGs that let you go through dialogue trees, because first it makes you more engaged in the conversation and if I'm not interested in part of the lore, I can skip it. And like I said, don't tell me things you can just show me.

 

[Snake Eater]

I'd prefer no stories at all--games can't tell them well and it's a waste of my time watching them try.

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Worst nightmare realized

 

[dskzero]

for certain types of games, cutscenes simply work very well and are a delight. When you have high quality stuff like RDR 2 or TLOU, I'm all for it.

Sure. A game like Ghost Recon Wildlands probably could do without cutscenes, though...

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The Last of Us is a (very long) playable movie though.

 

[Deleted member 45414]

The only thing we need when it comes to story-telling in games is better stories and better story tellers. Cutscenes don't automatically make game stories bad.

 

[Chance_Boudreaux]

In her video about Half-Life: Alyx (great video which I suggest you watch), Alanah Pearce talks about how developers are in the process of trying to break away from film-like storytelling. It sounds like, according to her, most major developers are doing just this and that the way we play games will change quite drastically within the next ten years. She mentions how Dying Light 2*'s changing city is the first, although very basic, step towards change. Also seems like Valve were attempting something like this for Half-Life: Alyx, although she says that it may have been scrapped for Alyx and instead be implemented in future Half-Life games (3?).

Spoiler: *

Haven't played or seen anything of Dying Light 2 so I have no idea if her example is a good one. Either way, the video is good and apparently we're in for some changes in the way we play games.

 

[Decarb]

I've always considered cutscenes as reward for reaching a goal or completing a task, especially in old games when the graphics would suddenly become better for a few moments. They also deliver a twist or a shock in a story better than stuff happening in real time IMO.

This video by Derek explains it better, just replace 360 video with full player control during a cinematic event in a game.

 

[Necromanti]

There's room for multiple approaches to narratives (or the lack thereof), though I'd also appreciate big budget games being more experimental on that end. Sometimes a cutscene can feel like a reward.

This was one area where Outer Wilds really excelled and was a huge part of why I was engaged throughout. Since you can go anywhere and everywhere from the very beginning (being limited only by your knowledge), the nonlinear way you experience the story will probably be different from someone else playing it. Each place you explore gives you glimpses of the central mystery, enticing you to find the next connecting thread somewhere else. Often, that knowledge will have gameplay implications. It was great having my understanding of the underlying mystery evolve as I went along (sometimes drastically), challenging how you interpret the world in terms of time scales, motivations, and the physics of the universe. Ironically, there are a lot of written logs, but they're mostly short and integral to the xenoarchaeological aspect of the game.

It just wouldn't have worked as well any other way. Such a clever, clever game through and through.

 

[Tiny Chihuahueño]

No. But it is time to abandon audio logs, notes and all that crap. If you can't manage to tell that story in an organic way, please don't bother because I don't have time to read a book while play the game. Release the book if you so desperately want to include this information, but don't waste my time.

 

[Necromanti]

No. But it is time to abandon audio logs, notes and all that crap. If you can't manage to tell that story in an organic way, please don't bother because I don't have time to read a book while play the game. Release the book if you so desperately want to include this information, but don't waste my time.

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I really, really wish they were better integrated (and were more thoughtful in general). I hate when it feels like I need to sit in one place to listen to something, which completely breaks the flow of the gameplay.

 

[monmagman]

Cutscenes tend to only add to my immersion in a game rather than take away from it.
Death Stranding is a good example right now,after countless hours of enjoyable gameplay I always look forward to the next lot of cutscenes.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Not really. I'm arguing that developing storytelling techniques that rely on the strength of the medium is more beneficial in a long run than reliance on film-esque narrative.

However, I won't deny that there's a place for TellTale and LiS like games, even tho I would prefer devs to take What Remains of Edith Finch and Gone Home approach.

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I would argue that What Remains of Edith Finch and Gone Home are closer to books and not particularly inherent to gaming in the way they're telling their stories. There's not much that couldn't be replicated in a book format.

 

[Rosenkrantz]

No. But it is time to abandon audio logs, notes and all that crap. If you can't manage to tell that story in an organic way, please don't bother because I don't have time to read a book while play the game. Release the book if you so desperately want to include this information, but don't waste my time.

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Can't say I agree, sure they would benefit from the better integration, but I don't think you can do it with lore heavy games and immersive sims.

 

[duckroll]

Not really. I'm arguing that developing storytelling techniques that rely on the strength of the medium is more beneficial in a long run than reliance on film-esque narrative.

However, I won't deny that there's a place for TellTale and LiS like games, even tho I would prefer devs to take What Remains of Edith Finch and Gone Home approach.

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It's not either or. Storytelling techniques that work for film aren't exclusive to film, they work for any sort of visual medium. You don't have to "abandon" film technique to develop techniques that benefit interactive visual mediums more. You can build on that and use what works best as well. It's really narrow minded to think that there's only one direction to evolve for any sort of storytelling technique. Knowing why certain camera movements and angles work best in film for certain types of scenes would also inform how to best stage an interactive scene even if the camera is in the player's control for example. Knowing how to guide the player to naturally look in a certain direction in the game world to get maximum impact from a realtime event unfolding would also require the understanding of film technique.

 

[Deleted member 23046]

Voice-over is a film-esque technique, as using actors to dub characters or to capture their movements. Relying only "on the strength of the medium" would mean zero traditional animation and drawing, because that's cinema too. I understand what it means regarding interactivity, level design ans world building, but the argument isn't really solid if extended to the form of cutscene in general, that is just a tool for the storyteller And hell no I don't want to get ride of FROM bosses opening. 🧙‍♀️ ......🐉

 

[Paul]

There is a reason film as a medium exists and is beloved. Some things are simply much more effective when told in cutscenes than in any other format. That does not mean every game needs them. But it means it is a valid way of storytelling - in games included - that should stay, just like movies and TV shows stay.

 

[Sadnarav]

No. But it is time to abandon audio logs, notes and all that crap. If you can't manage to tell that story in an organic way, please don't bother because I don't have time to read a book while play the game. Release the book if you so desperately want to include this information, but don't waste my time.

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At least let kill audio logs that you have to stay put near the device playing the audio log. Let me walk around while listening

 

[Monster Zero]

Bought Half Life 2 and System Shock 2 today. It made me realize I prefer storytelling through scripted events/dialogue in game over cutscenes.

 

[AgentLampshade]

Just because it hs access to alternative ways of storytelling doesn't mean it has to use that exclusively. Cutscenes will always have their place.

 

[Thera]

I dislike when important pieces of the lore/story is told by audiologs and random documents throughout the world, like in Bioshock and Control.

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Yep. I have the problem ATM with Death Stranding, where the lore is giving throught e-mail or log archive. And for a weird reason, when you read email, the map interface behind have little light flicker. It is really painful to read.

 

[duckroll]

Bought Half Life 2 and System Shock 2 today. It made me realize I prefer storytelling through scripted events/dialogue in game over cutscenes.

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It's still stuff learned from "film technique" though. How characters act, how they emote and are animated, how scripted events are staged in the game world, are all things taken from the experience of the film medium. That's why we shouldn't throw any of that out, but making things play out more seamlessly and in a more natural and interactive way is a good way to elevate storytelling in games to stuff a static film medium cannot do.

 

[residentgrigo]

I have to single out Controll´s FMVs after my inbox was flooded with the game. I have all but the getting all powers trophy in the game. It´s a fine 7.0/10 if you get it cheap. What´s not fine are the game´s life action FMV cutscenes. The barely-there story is utter nonsense that features "acting" that ranges from shallow to sub-SyFy movie of the week. The FMVs may be better than the utter trash in Quantum Break but that's about it. I live through the FMV hell of the 90s and that game is the epiphany of why they went away. No more! You are burning money for nothing.

Dear Sam Lake and Mikael Kasurinen. You have less talent for this than David Cage. He at least got better over time due to Detroit and sticks to in-engine direction. Return to motion comics and non-stereotypical types of direction. Those were good and worked. And please learn how to write a 3rd act that actually concludes your script.

 

[Asbsand]

Even back in the most arcade days like the SNK fighters you still had indulgent cutscenes with long-winded dialogue. It has a place and it's here to stay.

I think a noticeable design trend this generation has been that in RPGs, both Japanese and Western, examples like Xenoblade Chronicles X, Star Ocean, BioWare games, there's been a big push for alternative cutscene formats for budgetary issues with the rising cost in development for the usual amount of scope. The alternative format is where there is no framing and the actors stand in place while you're able to rotate the camera. Only their faces animate and there's voice acting.

Needless to say, I hate this more than cutscenes because they take up the length of a cutscene with nothing interesting to look at. It's like developers are saying "can we just cut corners here for our own sake?" But as a result they create a more lethargic pacing.

 

[Skyball Paint]

Nah, what games like Dark Souls and Half-Life achieve is impressive, but nothing in those games is gonna stick with me like Arthur Morgan

 

[Deleted member 45414]

Thinking about it, if we banished all film related techniques, then I really hope you enjoy visual novels.

 

[EarthPainting]

Any method of storytelling is valid to me. We've got access to a whole toolbox to tell stories, might as well use what you think suits your game best. The only thing I ask, is that the gameplay layer and narrative layers contribute to one cohesive whole. If I'm expected to put them in separate boxes, the only box they'll be put in is the "poor storytelling" one.

 

[Matty H]

When used well, cutscenes provide respite after an intense boss fight or harrowing escape scene. They fit into the overall pacing so you can engage different parts of your brain and relax your hands at regular intervals.

Not every game needs them and not every game that eschews them is the better for it. They're a storytelling tool that, on the whole, have made gaming a more engaging and wide-reaching medium.

Sometimes my favourite games are where I can just click play, sit back, relax, and watch. Some people call these movies but the two words are interchangeable to me. Movies don't play themselves, they require great skill and dexterity to set up and play. I also use the exact same hardware and software interface to experience them, so why create arbitrary boundaries to segregate these two ends of the one spectrum!?

Complaining that cutscenes exist in gaming is just petty and narrow-minded. Sure, you can critique how cutscenes are implemented in a Kojima game, or argue that controlling the camera at all times would make a particular game better, but if you try to argue that they shouldn't exist in gaming then you are trying to make gaming a lesser experience and may as well argue that movies shouldn't exist at all.

Once you get over the idea that games and movies are different, you will be much happier and open yourself to new experiences. Thank me when you get there. ;)