Because they don't want it to die in the Senate and instead want it to fester
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Nancy Pelosi won’t send the articles of impeachment to the Senate until she feels they’ll get a fair hearing.
- Thread starter Exellus
- Start date
Because they don't want it to die in the Senate and instead want it to fester
But the fact is that he has been impeached. The votes occurred and they have been filed. Having Harvard as part of someone's title doesn't mean they can't be a dumbass.
The senate has openly declared they, in violation of the impeachment oath they will take, will hold a sham trial. It's perfectly reasonable to pause to see what can be done to treat this as a serious process in the senate. "Dropping" anything doesn't apply until this session of Congress expires in January of 2021. If she doesn't file until then, then you have a point.
Impeachment is inherently a political process. Also suspect you're linking a twitter thread full of MAGAs and being concerned over a valid delay on part of the House. Yet don't seem to care about Senators openly declaring they will violate their impeachment oaths. Curious...
after every single republican congressperson voted against it this is laughable
Sure but this isn't good optics in my opinion. Letting it die in the senate in a partisan way is much better.
That's exactly what this move does. It highlights the partisan nature of several Senators who have been blurting out their intent loudly for weeks now.
Late reply... playing catch up here.
but this is not only "less defiant", but isn't this kinda like a trap to pin this all on Rudy and throw him under the bus live on TV?
naaw, that would be a terrible strategy. Rudy's got "Insurance". Would hate for that "insurance" to become public knowledge.
That's rich. Article 2 is specifically because the GOP played politics. Trump is impeached not having the senate trial wich is for removal not impeachment doesn't change that. There are no rules about the trial but the constitution is very clear about the congress and their impeachment powers and no where does it say they have to hand them over to the senate immediately. The s the breaks when you have a party that will break and bend every norm and rule and now they cry unfairness when the tables are turned.
Waiting for a fair senate trial is playing politics? The world must have changed because that used to be just the bare minimum we should expect from our representatives.
I agree and this is a dangerous game of balance Pelosi is playing
How so? So Trump can claim victory? No one has yet to provide a good answer why it's better to send to the Senate.
Yes, but if dems win the senate they also win the presidency.
That's what I'm asking; is there any benefit to convicting him in the senate after the Dems have won the presidency?
He would be barred from holding any future office, in the most practical terms.
The main function of convicting in the senate, as I understand it, would be to remove a president from office. Since there would likely be state-propelled cases, I'm just wondering if there'd be a political purpose for a Dem white house to continue the impeachment.
I think we should get over the notion that politics is anything other than a game at this point. It should be played to win. Doing otherwise assumes the republicans haven't put party over country.
Yes. For historical purposes.
We didn't convict the guy because we won an election? Future generations must know what happened here.
Absolute proof that this was the correct move by Pelosi.
I guess this is a really difficult concept for some of you:
DJT, the 45th President of the United States of America, is the third President to be impeached in the history of the nation.
Stfu, politics is all a dumb ass game. Democrats needed to stop kissing ass and actually do someone thing like this to get under Trumps skin and show him he just can't keep getting away with all the dumb shit he does.
The idea isn't to hold them back indefinitely, it's to hold them back until Schumer and McConnell can agree on terms.
The idea isn't to have Trump removed, it's to make the Senate vote after the evidence is clearly presented in front of them.
The public by and large thinks the House impeachment proceedings were fair. There were career diplomats and experts giving serious testimony about something they thought was alarming. They were publicly televised. Republicans got to question witnesses and state their objections.
McConnell showing his ass was an own goal. Pelosi can play dumb in the public and continually state that they'll turn them over as soon as the trial format is locked in. Her statements in the last 24 hours are presented as if a normal trial is the expectation. 60% of the public expects a normal Senate trial, especially "neutral" and "swing" and "independent" voters who are currently 50/50 on impeachment. If McConnell continues to stall, he looks like the unreasonable one, and he makes the Senate look unreasonable compared to the House.
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Forcing this wait over the holidays is brilliant. It'll let the impact of the impeachment vote cast a long shadow over Americans' holiday travel and gatherings, and the uncertainty of the senate process vs Trump's spin will continue to scramble republican messaging.
The holiday break is a crucial opportunity for political messaging to break through, either because people have more time to consume political news or because their perspectives zoom out a bit. The Christmas shutdown was far more impactful because of it. Obama's 2008 surge took advantage of strong showings in mid-December.
I think this is really smart from Pelosi even if the only effect is it slows things down and lets the historic vote have a moment to sink in
The holiday break is a crucial opportunity for political messaging to break through, either because people have more time to consume political news or because their perspectives zoom out a bit. The Christmas shutdown was far more impactful because of it. Obama's 2008 surge took advantage of strong showings in mid-December.
I think this is really smart from Pelosi even if the only effect is it slows things down and lets the historic vote have a moment to sink in
Not really when Republicans have been doing that and winning on it for the past couple of years. America has shown itself repeatedly that it has a very short-term memory when it comes to these kinds of things.
So I'd say it's about time Republicans got a good taste of their own medicine.
What's the problem in demanding that Republicans don't continue to devalue institutions and violate their oaths?
"The public by and large thinks the House impeachment proceedings were fair. "
To anyone here who considers the impeachment process to have been fair, did you find no problems with it at all? I mean, really? It was pretty much a process that followed no prior precedent. House norms were ignored right and left for the sake of getting a result by Christmas. Which is ironic as the president remains technically un-impeached until the case is formally filed, per the Constitution.
Unfortunately, Pelosi has no real leverage here. She either hands it off to the Senate or she doesn't.
To anyone here who considers the impeachment process to have been fair, did you find no problems with it at all? I mean, really? It was pretty much a process that followed no prior precedent. House norms were ignored right and left for the sake of getting a result by Christmas. Which is ironic as the president remains technically un-impeached until the case is formally filed, per the Constitution.
Unfortunately, Pelosi has no real leverage here. She either hands it off to the Senate or she doesn't.
There wasn't precedent to follow. The House didn't vote on it right away because the previous votes on it were due to rule changes being required, which at the start they weren't since republicans gave the House permanent subpoena power after Clinton and other investigative powers during the Obama years.
On top of that Trump literally just ignored legal subpoenas.
So the options were:
A: fight it out to the supreme court for the next 8-12 months (Which is redundant, since there's already a case dealing with subpoenaing a president there over the tax returns.)
or
B: Do what they did and bring it directly to the Chief Justice to decide on at the Senate trial instantly for expediency. If Roberts rules to see the witnesses, then Republicans would have to vote to overrule their own Chief Justice. If Roberts rules that the witnesses can't be seen, then the whole supreme court road was fucked from the start anyway.
Of course, since McConnel has basically stated that he'd be a White House puppet with the trial, it doesn't work, so holding back the articles is just as well. Not to mention, Trump has been effectively impeached, in reality. Like, Pelosi could technically hand over the articles the day after the next Presidential election or the day before the next Congress is sworn in, there's no changing the fact that he has been impeached.
Didn't you just contradict yourself? If 'letting it fester' "isn't good optics", doesn't that mean Pelosi is not "playing politics"?
You can't have it both ways. Either this is a smart move politically (playing politics by letting the impeachment fester) or a dumb move (bad optics).
You sound confused to be honest.
He really is playing poker with his cards lying face up on the table. What a fucking idiot.
They can't 'force' anything about it once it's in the Senate.
Echoing the other posters and I'm going to need receipts. The only unprecedented portion of the proceedings was the WH not allowing any document production or witnesses - and that same poll says 70% of Americans expect Trump aides to testify in the Senate.
This means that despite all of the court cases and Twitter wars and Fox spin, a decent chunk of Trump's own supporters honestly believe that he can/will be easily cleared if Mulvaney/Giuliani/Pompeo get on the mic. The risk they ran with gaslighting the nation is that not everyone is in on the "joke".
Consider in the first impeachment:
And you can see Trump has been given the benefit of the doubt far more.
Somethings aren't for optics. There is a principle on holding trump accountable until the senate will see the case fairly.
We know they won't, but this is a power move showing the lengths we went to do the best. If we fail and we most likely will, history will remember Trump and the republicans to be so awfully corrupt. Finally on paper this time
We know they won't, but this is a power move showing the lengths we went to do the best. If we fail and we most likely will, history will remember Trump and the republicans to be so awfully corrupt. Finally on paper this time
Exactly, you're right, playing politics like Graham and McConnell saying on national TV that they won't hold a fair trial is a very dangerous game to play.
User banned (3 weeks): Hostility, inflammatory trolling + previous recent ban for the same behaviour
Or rather, the democratic party will be viewed as distracting incompetents who waste time with useless proceedings that only appeal to wonks and nerds.
They literally cannot do more than what they're doing now.Or rather, the democratic party will be viewed as distracting incompetents who waste time with useless proceedings that only appeal to wonks and nerds.
You want them to write bills? They do, and they're pilling up on McConnell's desk who systematically refuses to proceed them.
To you maybe. Not to me. This was the strongest the Democrats have been in decades.
And that would be a lie. Mitch McConnell is sitting on a ton of legislation passed by the house.Or rather, the democratic party will be viewed as distracting incompetents who waste time with useless proceedings that only appeal to wonks and nerds.
The reality is the average person does not care about is impeachments, so to drag this out any longer than it has to is only going to backfire. Everyone who has a certain opinion of Trump has already made that decision and this impeachment isn't going to sway it one way or another
