June 20, 2016 based on FEC filings.
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Nancy Pelosi to have press conference at 6 PM EST on Mueller testimony (UPDATE: impeachment not called for)
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
- Start date
June 20, 2016 based on FEC filings.
In April 2016, campaign finance watchdogs and Sanders supporters expressed concerns about the Hillary Victory Fund, which Clinton supporters represented as a fundraising committee composed of Clinton's presidential campaign, the Democratic National Committee, and 32 state party committees. The setup allowed Clinton to bypass donation limits and to solicit checks of $350,000 or more from supporters. According to Politico, "the Hillary Victory Fund appears to be pushing the bounds of joint fundraising in its online advertising campaign, which has included many ads urging readers to "Stop Trump" or to support Clinton." In April, a Sanders campaign lawyer sent an open letter to the DNC that alleged that "the victory fund was essentially a pass-through to allow Clinton to benefit from contributions that far exceed the amount that her campaign could legally accept." In a news release accompanying the letter, Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver said "it is unprecedented for the DNC to allow a joint committee to be exploited to the benefit of one candidate in the midst of a contested nominating contest."
Also, moderate/corporate dems miss me with that weak stuff, keep your complacency and limp dick policies to yourself, cause you're part of the problem. So like pelosi and the other spineless bunch, you should just get out of the way if you want to help your country
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Being angry with children being locked up = ignorant, huh?
Lol being angry that kids are in cages is being ignorant. Of course the poster who was banned for suggesting that American companies shouldn't hire Chinese people would say something like this.
Its the same people in every thread telling us to grow up and learn how politics work while hand waving away the human atrocities the democratic party are not only allowing to happen, but actively helping come to fruition. They dont care about non white non American lives. They care about their political team scoring points and defending them at all costs.
Anyone who calls progressives "leftists" is obviously using it as a pejorative and not arguing in good faith.
You can safely ignore anything that this troll says. He very clearly has nothing to add to any conversation.
You projecting political views or policy positions on people that disagree with your characterization of the situation is melodramatic and ignorant, yes.
So we're gonna gloss over the makeup of the majority of newly elected Democrats that lead to them taking the House in 2018? I don't care about being on the "right side of history" on every major issue if the candidates can't win their races.
This sort of useless sniping at a person for their post history that has nothing to do with this thread is everything wrong with this discussion. Neither I, nor the quoted poster, have said anything about their views with respect to "kids in cages" but apparently rejecting this notion that upending the democratic party would fix it means that we automatically support it.
Without context, it's a meaningless comparison. Which seats? Etc.
Many times progressives were challenging deep red Republican districts.
Also, if it's about "electability" I'm sure the DNC supports progressives in deep blue races right?
Of course not! It's not about electability at all. Moderates WANT moderation. They want to maintain the status quo. And that includes Democratic leadership, their corporate donors, and their apologist defense force
And you're supporting an organization that gave Trump 100% consequence free money to murder more immigrants then complained when people started to fight it. And the person you're defending cheered when he found out I was dying from liver failure so quite frankly I know he's a piece of shit.
The DNC backs whoever gets the nomination, if the "status quo" is a tried and true formula that is proven to win in the most amount of places then thats the formula you go with. When progressives start winning in deep red states or districts, they'll change their tune.
Agreed. Ichthy has always been sus and I'm surprised he's still around.
I'm supporting the organization that has the best chance of preventing a 2nd Trump term. You can hem and haw about members of their delegation not agreeing with every issue you do 100% of the time but I believe democrats in power leaves us in a better situation than republicans in power in every situation. With respect to the consequence free money to "murder more immigrants" I'm assuming you're referring to the border relief bill? For some reason I'm not overly concerned about a bill that sought to address the poor hygiene and conditions in facilities all across the border. Something needed to be done, and while the bill passed didn't have everything I wanted, I'm willing to accept the political reality of the situation - it was the Senate bill or it was nothing, and nothing would have exacerbated the crisis.
"leftists" has a meaning and isn't really a pejorative at all, even if it's often misused. But agree on dinofishbot
If the primary for every competitive seat went to the moderate on the assumption that moderates are most electable, then obviously more moderates would win more seats, even if anyone would have sufficed as long as they have a D next to their name for that particular election.
The meaningful comparison is the difference in the margin of victory or loss compared to the replacement, which the florida example makes for a good comparison.
Thank you. That person's trolling greatly brings down the quality of any discussion, because they clearly have no intention of actually discussing things. Just concern troll after concern troll in the exact same way every time regardless of context.
Always fascinating to see how people can justify horrors with no sweat. Then again, why would you care? They're not yet aiming the guns at you. If political reality is "give in 100% to terrorists and allow them to continue to murder children" and "mock and blame those fighting against children dying as if they were the cause" then the solution is to tear down the entire country.
Then again, maybe I should be as sociopathic as you. After all I'm dying of liver failure and won't live to see the next few years with an expansive transplant. Maybe I should not give a shit like you and pretend everything is fine.
Edit: Hell, some of you are openly cheering for it anyways.
I wish you spent as much time and energy discussing the specific situations that lead to Democrats voting for that bill as you did typing out rhetorical devices meant to appeal to emotion. The DHS was literally running out of money and didn't have the capacity to meet the number of people that were crossing the border. Articles about the terrible conditions in these places were coming out every few days. Democrats in the House were standing against a measure that passed with overwhelming bipartisan support in the Senate that would have addressed these specific concerns. They had no leverage and no justifications for being against the bill that addressed the concerns that they themselves had been highlighting. As much as it may pain you, the bill itself isn't literally killing children.
You can leave the sociopathic accusations and "literal nazi germany"-isms at the door.
The thing about that bill is that it doesn't solve the issues that they were highlighting because this whole crisis was manufactured in the first place by the trump administration. The cruelty is the point and you don't give money with very few restrictions to cruel people.
But..what if Mike Pence pinky swears that he'll tell you if more kids die?
Again mock mock mock and belittle for daring to have a heart. I've had an awful day yesterday and I don't need your pathetic ass telling me that I am too melodramatic. I don't need you dismissing concerns with a proud sneer. I'm already being murdered by my health and by my family and I don't need your proud ass doing your damn best to make sure I push over the edge you garbage headstrong vermin!
Totally agreed! It can often be used descriptively, and not pejoratively. In this case, however, it's clear he was using it to foolishly try and disparage others.
Just put them on ignore. No sense in catching a ban for them baiting you. If they want to pat themselves on the back for how smart they are defending a party willingly funding concentration camps (and getting nothing out of it) and refusing to hold our criminal president liable for his actions (despite the mueller testimony) then let them. Theyre on the wrong side of history and clearly dont give a fuck about the well being of human beings who have done nothing to deserve the treatment democrats are allowing to pass through without any resistance.
User banned (5 days) excessive hostility and personal attacks towards other members, using whataboutism to belittle someone's suffering
The alternative, leave shit the way it is and continue to bitch and moan?
The border bill obviously wasn't ideal, but it was better than nothing. The funding will help and there is oversight. Like Pelosi said, give her more than 4 votes to work with instead of a whole lot of bitching and moaning and maybe they can get something done. But of course that was viewed as an attack and there was more bitching and whining. Because she dared speak the truth.
Nothing wrong with having a heart. The problem is placing blame and responsibility on people trying to help and spouting ridiculous bullshit like the dems don't care about non-whites etc. Pelosi would bury the entire GOP with no fucks given if she had the power. You all are fucking idiots and it's sad.
Also stop feeling sorry for yourself. Don't you know there are kids dying in cages? Pretty sure they are having a worse day than you.
"Hey it might get worse so lets take action that will 100% make it worse and hope its not as bad as the alternative. I know you people really would have liked more to be done about the harm, deaths, torture, and separation of families at the concentration camps but cant you see were doing whats best for you by guaranteeing this only gets worse. Please be thankful, make sure to donate, and continue to vote for us unless you want more Trump!"
Please enlighten us about this mythical power the Dems wield?
This is stupid as fuck.
It's basically telling someone who is suffering, "I can't help you as much as I'd like to, so I'm not gonna do anything". That's fucking idiotic. The funding will help conditions, the people will not suffer as much, they will survive and hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel. I honestly can't understand your thought process or rationalization.
FL and GA had rampant voter suppression and the latter had the person in charge of elections purging Democrats from the polls. The people that happened to be Progressives lost to undemocratic cheaters. That's not proof at all that Progressive politics aren't viable.
If Bernie can roll through Red and Purple territory and pick up people based on his policies, Dem moderates don't have much of an excuse with all their concessions.
If Bernie can roll through Red and Purple territory and pick up people based on his policies, Dem moderates don't have much of an excuse with all their concessions.
Not funding concentration camps that were created because the Trump admin is cruel, wants to be cruel, and the whole point is to be cruel
I'm sure they are. I was beaten up by my sister with a baseball bat and was in the hospital yesterday and the cops failed to catch my sister so I'm currently a paranoid panicking wreck and I'm currently dying from liver failure so without an expensive surgery I'm not going to live to 2021 but at least I'm still alive and this society isn't making me drink out of toilets. But you're right. I should stop feeling sorry for myself for repeatedly getting horrific things happen to me. I should just listen to everyone telling me to off myself or trying physically to kill me. After all, you'll be gone one idiot who's too busy feeling sorry for himself.
Do you think a government shutdown literally shuts down the government? Honest question.
Ichtysaurus and Kirblar are the Democratic Party's version of Chris and Snoop. I may disagree with them on some things but I like their style lol.
There wasn't really any ambiguity over the negative consequences of ORR running out of money. They had already announced they would cut services and stop paying the nonprofits they contract with for housing/education/etc.
Of course, the reason they were running out of money is largely a knock-on effect of the actively hostile immigration policy of the Trump administration, but the fact remains.
Of course, the reason they were running out of money is largely a knock-on effect of the actively hostile immigration policy of the Trump administration, but the fact remains.
I haven't figured that out yet lol. Since Bernie moved into town and started slanging product, the hammers have been out.
The ability to at least do ANYTHING in their power to resist further abetting concentration camps. Enlighten me as to what further oversight they received for willingly throwing money at the problem?
The funding will not help conditions. The funding will further abet those conditions and expand the system and make it worse. Things are continuing to escalate, not deescalate. Its only "stupid as fuck" if you sincerely dont give a fuck about the well being of other people and think aiding their captors is somehow a positive (it isnt). Your scenario is predicated completely on a hypothetical scenario of things getting worse. The consequences of not resisting any of this nor getting anything out of this deal is that it is FACTUALLY getting worse. You. Do. Not. Fund. Concentration. Camps.
It was actually worse than nothing. "Oversight" from this Congress means jack shit.
The only fuck shit was going on was a incompetent elections departments in two democrat counties.
Senator Bill Nelson became a piece of molasses, but if leftist enthusiasm translates into votes, what about counter-votes against progressives?
The counter voters are old rich white people who are going to turn out to vote no matter who is on the ballot.
You can bet that the party has a "preference", that preference comes secondary to the person who's actually winning the votes though.
The counter voters were a large contingent of hispanic voters in Florida that flipped to the GOP in the 2018 cycle, not to say that old rich white people didn't make up the majority of counter protesters though but they're a constant. Unsurprisingly resistance to "socialism!" resonates with Cuban-American voters and the Puerto Rican / younger hispanic voters didn't turn out. It's cause for concern.
So don't pretend like it's neutral then. The party leadership despises progressives. Moderates and centrists represent the wealthy. Republicans are less of a threat to the status quo than progressives
Ask young people why they don't vote and they'll tell you. Ask young people which candidates they support and they'll tell you.
That's not true at all. They're not going to back Progressives, period. Class class class, the Dems do what the wealthy say.
To add, they will try to manipulate results as well. Democrats did in NY '16 Primary what they're giving FLs Desantis shit for, taking opposition voters off the voter registry.
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The party leadership doesn't "despise" progressives, I swear there's a contingent of the party that has a perpetual victim complex after Bernie Sanders. If the progressives want to be taken seriously as a wing of the party then take red states or red districts with progressive ideals, win the primaries to become the nominee, and beat the conservative. As the makeup of the party stands today, progressive candidates make up a minority, that's not because of the DNC cabal, but because they haven't received the votes required to take these seats.
The makeup of the democratic party is a reflection of the people that are voting for candidates in the democratic party. If you want a major shakeup that pushes progressives in the limelight, start taking seats. This narrative you're pushing conflicts with the reality of the situation though. The party's top candidates have moved further to the left since 2016. Sanders, Warren, and Harris are ranking among the highest among 2020 nominees and are all pushing some form of Medicare for all. The progressives are here and their platform is on the front stage of the party, now they just have to win.
The party is further right than the average Democratic constituent
Just look at polling on any single issue. It's not ambiguous or disputable.
The skew right happens due to the disproportionate infuence of donor money.
Based on policy polling, the dnc should be embracing progressives, not being dragged.
The DNC DOES NOT represent the average constituent.
That's a straw man, not my argument. Why are you against people using their head about something they obvious have every right to be angry with? How do you plan on beating Trump if you're not concerned about outsmarting him? Anger isn't going to beat Trump by itself, instead it'll weaken us.
In hindsight I was wrong to say that, except rather than have an honest conversation about it all you're interested in using any mistakes I make against me in bad faith. Is taking cheap shots and memes all ERA is to you? At least samoyed has discussions which rely on facts and history to back up his arguments, more often than not. Do you know why the Bernie Bros associations exist with the left? Because of the posts you're making like this.
That you'd use kids in cages to score political points on a video game forum is ghastly. Against another person on the left, at that. This is a disservice to the leftists on ERA which aren't toxic.
I suggest you start looking at the bigger picture rather than trying to radicalise ERA every chance you can get.
Nobody is hand waving anything. You have no idea how this works and completely ignore how the system works not whatever it is you think it does. Your completely ignoring the context about how the House was subverted by the senate, as well as the reason they did this was to stop kids from starting to death. Those were the options with that vote, there was no option for shutting down the camps, which McConnell and Pence did on purpose.
We care about everyone, you're the one doing the point scoring. I'm working with the system, you're not going to do anything to Trump outside of it. We'd know, it'd be all over the news. Acknowledging how the system works to reform it isnt the same as supporting it, but you know that already.
You need to get over having competition in the party, we have a right to exist and say our peace. It's projection to call us out on cheerleading when it's many of the leftists on ERA who commit this sin and anything outside that context is considered heresy.
When I say "leftists" I mean it to specific a certain type of progressive - progressive isn't merely a word for "leftist."
Nothing here has anything to do with leftism or socialism.
Stop trying to erase the competition, argue fairly if you disagree with my approach. Leftists deserve to hear more then preaching to the choir, stagnation will hurt your movement rather than help it.
Just come out and identify as a socialist, man. Embrace your ideology fully in the light of day don't hide behind terms everyone knows what you're saying, anyway. You have nothing to be ashamed of with that.
You haven't looked at how the bill went down, did you? Don't lash out at me because you've had a bad day. I have immense sympathy for your situation, yet you continually used a good faith post I made to educate you more about how the system works to attack me again and again because I had the audacity to disagree with you about Bernie Sanders. Stop lying and educate yourself on how the system works.
The thing about that your ignoring is that shutting down the camps was never an option the Republicans would have passed congress. You should be aiming your fire at McConnell and Pence for that, not Pelosi.
Focus on your actual enemies if you really want to win in congress, don't do the Republicans work for them.
I've had disagreements with the left on things because I'm a liberal, not a leftist. I'm surprised I'm still around, too, what with the concerned efforts to drive me off with bullying, we both know it has nothing to do with being "suspicious."
This begs the question, do you think the Justice Democrats are "suspicious"? AOC is getting her technocrat on in Washington like a duck to water, as well as being excited working on bills with Ted Cruz while nearly half the JD's sided against the Squad with the Border bill.
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It's kind of a fascinating case in point, trying to think of how to marry together the impulses of those who are united in wanting to end the bigotry and madness, but differ on whether that can be achieved either by working within the system that got us here in the first place, or by tearing it down and building something completely else.
The left loses when it is divided like this. Our own ideology of cooperation, inclusivity and fairness has failed to absorb and recover from the assault from the right.
There's lots of anger and hurt around. The only way to really gain any ground, albeit slowly, seems to be concentrate on healing the internal rifts to bring both wings of the left online together. This takes patience, and the willingness to compromise. Establish ways of working together to achieve shared goals and the table is actually stacked in our favour.
In principle.
The left loses when it is divided like this. Our own ideology of cooperation, inclusivity and fairness has failed to absorb and recover from the assault from the right.
There's lots of anger and hurt around. The only way to really gain any ground, albeit slowly, seems to be concentrate on healing the internal rifts to bring both wings of the left online together. This takes patience, and the willingness to compromise. Establish ways of working together to achieve shared goals and the table is actually stacked in our favour.
In principle.
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Is this true? Do you have any sources on this that I could look at? It sounds like you're saying that if we looked at most presidential candidates and what they support, the average dem constituent be further left than them on most policy positions, but based on prior polling I've seen in the past I don't know if that's true.
Look at polling of Democratic constituents on medicare for all, campaign financing, taxation of the wealthy, regulation of banking industry, education, pharmaceutical regulation, energy regulation, etc.
Hell on some of these even the country as a whole is to the left of the Democratic party.