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Nakkiel (DBFZ player) accused of sexual assault (& Sonicfox defending him)
- Thread starter Magneto
- Start date
User Warned: Insensitive Commentary
are you folks gonna say something about on sonic fox defending they friend? Or just to correct people on the use of pronouns?
On the actual topic, its a shame, they should have waited before say something to defend friends.
Doesn't matter honestly.
If you sexually assault someone in their sleep it's pretty clear what you are.
it seems sonicfox doesn't understand that most sexual assault occurs with someone you know.
The correction is important or the thread gets derailed because the pronoun is important. You're derailing the thread. Please stop.
Her perspective matters, though. As far as within a relationship, stuff like that can be a complicated line. Which is probably also why she refuses to call him a rapist.
There are plenty of relationships where sexual touching happens without explicit conversation beforehand.
The concerning part for me is not necessarily Nakkiel's sexual advances, but whether or not his ex-gf felt that she was in danger if she said no or otherwise stopped him. In this case, she said she didn't feel comfortable saying no, and that is toxic. At the same time, having seen situations like that where the punishment for saying "no" was an argument, I understand exactly where she (and SonicFox) are coming from.
I agree with most of the takes in this thread re: Sonicfox's response. But it's not important as the abuse situation and what the victim said. Correcting misgendering is always very important though, I just don't want to divert additional attention towards a pretty harmful tweet from Sonicfox.
Sure her perspective matters but what I am supposed to think when she says that he didn't care about her saying no and that he would have his way anyway?
That's what she says now:
"I probably would have been scared to say this back then, but the "me" now knows that: NO MEANS NO"
We're clearly not talking about a sexual relationship where both parties are ok with sexual touching without prior discussion.
I get that she doesn't want to label him a rapist because that can have consequences that she doesn't wish on him, or that she just doesn't want to have to go further than "just" sharing her story but the facts are there.
They must be exhausted because their friends keep getting outed as shitty people.
User Banned (1 month): Rationalizing victim blaming over sexual assault allegations
This is all reasonable. I don't wish to downplay her experiences, especially because there are more than enough signs (even non-verbal) to say "don't go any further." Even if they had an agreement that said non-consensual touching was okay, it clearly changed based on his own words.
What he did wasn't okay, but I also see the line where she doesn't want to say "he's a rapist." That's important because many of these women have said they're sharing these stories specifically so these men can take accountability, and recognize their place in a toxic gaming culture that doesn't recognize the agency of women. Which is why I understand both her perspective and SonicFox's. What should happen to Nakkiel as a result is a question above my paygrade.
This is a super common thing that is incredibly hard to get through to people. If you speak on sexual assault people immediately think of a dude in a trenchcoat in some dark alley, but the statistical reality couldn't be further from that idea
It's frustrating and seems to be one of the biggest issues in having the severity translate to people without first or secondhand experience. I'm not sure what the solution is, honestly, even after trying really hard in my own personal life to get this stuff across, but it's something that desperately needs to be reality checked whenever possible.
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Like most things education is the most important for nipping this in the bud. People aren't taught to critically think, be skeptical, or seek out multiple sources to information. They assume or take someone else for their word. I like to think it has to do with how our brain loves shortcuts.
There is a lot of overlap between people who are genuinely concerned with what they said and people who despise SonicFox and what they represent and are undoubtedly playing vulture for the moment that they say something wrong or are revealed to have done something wrong and have full access to muddy up the discourse on non-binary people/furries/blacks people.
So it's worth adjusting tone to differentiate
I understand that completely. But throwing in a "But that doesn't make up for what they just said" or anything even shouldn't be that hard and then you can still differentiate yourself from the shitton of alt right shitheads that hate SonicFox for no good reason but not try to downplay this potential harmful behaviour in those tweets.
The thing that annoys me is that some people, even in this thread, just don't address what they're saying at all and just go with "We're human, we make mistakes", "They've been through so much already" argument to excuse Fox for saying it.
Regardless that's enough from me about SonicFox. This thread is and should primarily be about Nakkiel and his ex gf and I feel the SonicFox topic diverts attention too much and many posters, myself included, have been guilty of just focusing on the SonicFox part because they're a more prominent individual.
Immediately unfollowed Nakkiel when I saw those tweets this morning, always seemed like a cool, sensible guy. Had a lot of respect for him too since he's a cancer survivor.
Hate how most of this topic is about a queer person of color having difficulty coming to terms that a close friend of theirs who they happen to live with is a rapist. Cut them some slack please, this isn't the only person who they were close to have these allegations brought to light recently. Not to mention they deal with constant harassment from racists and LGBTphobes.
Hate how most of this topic is about a queer person of color having difficulty coming to terms that a close friend of theirs who they happen to live with is a rapist. Cut them some slack please, this isn't the only person who they were close to have these allegations brought to light recently. Not to mention they deal with constant harassment from racists and LGBTphobes.
Their comment was trash, but no one is talking about the actual rapist. Sorry that it makes uncomfortable and conflicted to see queer bystander drug through the mud not the person guilty of the crime.
What SonicFox is doing is victim blaming. There isn't anything unique or special about this particular situation that needs to be given an exemption. They're being shitty and need to shut the fuck up because they have nothing of worth to add to the discussion. People using the kid gloves need to stop. They don't need the consideration on this topic. They're saying dumb shit and should just plainly be called out for it.
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Could it be because no one is defending the rapist here but want kid's gloves with SF?
With MikeZ at least Fox eventually gave up on the guy when later things came out.
I understand not being happy about SF's response, but they're a 22 year old who's dealing with a lot of shit in a very short period of time. From reading their twitter timeline it seems pretty clear they realized they misspoke.
Its pretty fucking hard being a vocal person with a big online following and typing the right thing every time regarding extremely sensitive topics, especially when youre young and dealing with your own trauma ... so I can definitely see a scenario where you're going to say the wrong thing even with good intent in mind. SF has spoken about suicide in the past (I believe, correct me if Im wrong please) so I hope theyre getting the proper support and that probably means taking a healthy break from the internet.
On the matter at hand, thats pretty fucked up. The ex gf is definitely dealing with trauma and PTSD. Thats some serious shit and its a really bad look for Nakkiel who seemed extremely hand wavy in his response
Its pretty fucking hard being a vocal person with a big online following and typing the right thing every time regarding extremely sensitive topics, especially when youre young and dealing with your own trauma ... so I can definitely see a scenario where you're going to say the wrong thing even with good intent in mind. SF has spoken about suicide in the past (I believe, correct me if Im wrong please) so I hope theyre getting the proper support and that probably means taking a healthy break from the internet.
On the matter at hand, thats pretty fucked up. The ex gf is definitely dealing with trauma and PTSD. Thats some serious shit and its a really bad look for Nakkiel who seemed extremely hand wavy in his response
I'm just conflicted I guess. I'm not sure. They are a queer voice that gives me inspiration. It hurts me to see them fight oppression on one hand then completely ignore other oppression when it's convenient for them. I hope they have a change of heart.
Sorry if my comments were brash, women have every right to be upset with SF.
Sorry if my comments were brash, women have every right to be upset with SF.
I imagine most people are upset with SonicFox's response because people looked up to them in the first place.
Has this been covered? SonicFox apologized for his tweet a few hours ago.
If you go to his replies, he's been trying to clarify himself and apologize for what he said.
If you go to his replies, he's been trying to clarify himself and apologize for what he said.
User Banned (Permanent): Downplaying and excusing sexual assault
Seems like a toxic relationship rather than outright one way abuse.
Been in his shoes where my ex wouldn't communicate with me and made me question why. I would try to initiate sex and get nothing and over time that gets really frustrating and leads to arguments. And doing things that make you feel like you're just an embarrassment to them is also emotional abuse.
This in no way excuses his behaviour as the relationship should have ended much earlier but when you are so emotionally invested into someone and they constantly reject your advances and don't explain why, it really damages your mindset. And I hate to be labelled a sexual abuser just because I kept trying to touch my ex to initiate some intimacy.
Differences here though is my ex was very violent to me and cheated on me lots so it isn't the same. But I can see both sides due to my own experiences.
Been in his shoes where my ex wouldn't communicate with me and made me question why. I would try to initiate sex and get nothing and over time that gets really frustrating and leads to arguments. And doing things that make you feel like you're just an embarrassment to them is also emotional abuse.
This in no way excuses his behaviour as the relationship should have ended much earlier but when you are so emotionally invested into someone and they constantly reject your advances and don't explain why, it really damages your mindset. And I hate to be labelled a sexual abuser just because I kept trying to touch my ex to initiate some intimacy.
Differences here though is my ex was very violent to me and cheated on me lots so it isn't the same. But I can see both sides due to my own experiences.
What a terrible story to read. Sex is not a right, being in a relationship doesn't mean you're owed that "service" 24/7. Fuck is wrong with these people?
Disappointed in SonicFox both sides-ing it as well, and it's also disappointing to see people defending their actions just because they're generally liked around here. We're talking about serious accusations here, it's not mandatory to rush to defend someone without having facts on your hands.
Disappointed in SonicFox both sides-ing it as well, and it's also disappointing to see people defending their actions just because they're generally liked around here. We're talking about serious accusations here, it's not mandatory to rush to defend someone without having facts on your hands.
Good but we shouldn't downplay what they posted. The accusation describes sexual assault.
The reason that this sort of thing is so prevelant in the smash circles is because everytime someone found out, they reacted exactly like Sonicfox did. Downplaying it, making up justifications, both-siding the situation and shrugging it off because it's their friend.
That sort of reaction creates the environment that allows these abuses to fester.
You are correct. But when you are in a relationship and the other party dismisses any physical contact without communicating why over a long period of time it is soul crushing. You don't know what to do, you question why, what have I done wrong? So you try to hold their hand or touch other places to initiate something in the hope you get a response, is it wrong to do that? Even she says he wasn't a rapist and stopped when she said no.
I am in no way invalidating her feelings at all, but with the complete lack of communication between them you shouldn't invalidate his either.
It was a toxic relationship due to a complete lack of communication and differing expectations by the sounds of it and the best thing to happen to both of them is to not be together.
SonicFox goes by they/them.
Mods can we get a staff post on SonicFox's pronouns? It's been explained multiple times already in this thread but I think we need a visible reminder.
Anyway I'm glad they've apologised but they really need to do some reflection on rushing straight to defend their friends publically without waiting for facts. Trying to downplay this by both-sidesing it is gross.
As for Nakkiel well, yikes.
Usted ? :p
In French neutral is masculine form, though you could forego pronouns and use "SonicFox" each time you want to refer to them, which is a bit heavy to write and read.
Yeah, we have ellos (ils), but as you said it's the masculine form. 'Fox will have to do 🙃
Damn this thread is waay more about SF than Nakkiel or the victim.
Anywho its brave for the victim to come forward, damn it Nakkiel and SF should have stayed out of it.
Anywho its brave for the victim to come forward, damn it Nakkiel and SF should have stayed out of it.
Lots of Toxic folks in the video game community.
FGC is no exception.
The more you hear about stuff like this the less surprising it becomes. We just have easier access to people and it's easier to find out people are trash.
FGC is no exception.
The more you hear about stuff like this the less surprising it becomes. We just have easier access to people and it's easier to find out people are trash.
Yep...
There are others explicit signals you can share, yes.
That's a sad story. But don't touch someone to initiate some intimacy, that's wrong no matter what the context is.
My guy, if you are in a relationship and the other person refuses to communicate at all you leave. If you want to hold your SO's hand and they refuse to let that happen and you have tried to have a discussion on the issue and they wont then you just draw a line in the sand. Nothing you are saying justifies any of the happenings.
Agree. But just leaving is so easy to say. It's hard to explain but it's like you're blinded, you yearn for that recipricaton of affection and it grows stronger the more you are rejected. It's only after you realise how messed up it all was and unless you are in that situation it's difficult to understand. Again, not justifying his actions at all, just trying to relay my similar experience to explain the mindset as it is so complex and not as black and white as we would wish it to be.
Sorry mate, but regardless of the topic you need to be respecting people's pronouns. Those posts were correct.
SF shouldn't have tweeted so it's good they recognized that, though the apology is a bit brief.
iCham Spanish is the same as french in this regard (and many others besides) and I can't help but think that the current solutions we have (pluralizing to neutralize in english and masculinizing as default in roman languages) are not ideal. Our vocabulary should increase as our understanding of the world does.
SF is young, and this is their friend. That would be a difficult situation for most people to process, at that age I'm pretty sure most of us were not amazing at this either. People are not perfect, and if they learn and grow through these things that is a good thing.
There's a difference between calling out (correct) and acting holier than thou like most of us would process this shit perfectly in the same situation.
Maybe there's a bigger discussion worth having in a different thread about that. But if you think how this place was born, what this place represents, the sort of safe space this forum is trying to be for people, we can't let victim blaming slide from somebody because "they're young" or "they're good people otherwise". It's not how it works, and it's not how it's ever worked on Era either. SonicFox resorted to victim blaming over a sexual assault instead of waiting. A reminder that he wasn't asked directly, he randomly joined a convo to point out "there's both sides" to this sexual assault. In a way, there's two sides. But saying NO to sex and still getting touched or worse is sexual assault, not a "comunication problem" like they stated. And nobody gets a pass on victim blaming, certainly not a responsible adult. Not SonicFox, not Pope Francis.
I think my posts were clearly not suggesting that, not even close actually. Literally said it was correct to call him out, too.
There is calling out, which is correct, and there is acting holier than thou because we're all so perfect. It's not like I'm talking about the abuser themselves being given consideration, I'm talking about someone who is seeing their close friends accused of horrible shit and is finding it very difficult to process.
I can only imagine how hard that would be for me, especially at that age. If one of my close friends was accused of this now, even, it would hardly be an easy thing to deal with. And no, I'm not saying SonicFoix is any kind of victim here, they NEED to be called out and if they had stuck to their guns about it then I would have dropped all support for them.
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I can give SonicFox the benefit of doubt over processing this. The accusation is against a friend after all. But publicly siding with the buddy explaining "yeah but maybe there's both sides with this sexual assault you know, bad communication" was a horrible idea. It's not necessary to express an opinion if you're still forming one. There's good reasons why this forum sides with victims when it makes sense, and unanimously condemns those who try to "both sides" it or blame the victim. Is it dogpiling? Maybe so, and I can agree on the level of the discourse needing improvements, but at the same time I'm not gonna shed a tear if someone gets insulted for victimblaming. Why? Because the victim's credibility, public persona, face, past, present and future are thrown onto the Internet as Internet detectives try and dissect whether her claims can be real or not, all while a good share of "good friends" and "fans" of the abuser start by assuming she is lying or that she misinterpreted sexual assault. I think what she feels is quite a lot worse, so I'm not gonna feel too sorry for those contributing to make her feel worse.