Canada's front-line frigates have suffered 10 fire and smoke incidents since 2018
If you want my take on all this please refer to:
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My latest thread slagging off our pathetic (Canadian) military
- Thread starter FriskyCanuck
- Start date
If you want my take on all this please refer to:
OP
OP
I say we either get with modernizing our forces or abandon it altogether.. why are we putting them in harms way by forcing the use of obsolete equipment?
The way the US is right now, would they even defend our sovereignty from Russia in the North? Maybe the rest of NATO.. Maybe.
The way the US is right now, would they even defend our sovereignty from Russia in the North? Maybe the rest of NATO.. Maybe.
Sorry, but I side-eye when I see people like the OP demanding to arm their country's military forces. It's almost war-mongering
If there was a better world, there'd be no militaries at all.
But we still have Doug and Bob our full trained attack bears to rely on , I for one sleep safe and sound
Canada does not need a huge military when you have the largest military force as a neighbor. Trump stupidity aside they will never invade Canada ever.
You have Russia making noise in the Arctic, I don't think its completely unwise to make sure your country can at least deter aggression.
I think the issue is that the Canadian military is barely capable of "projecting power" over the country's own territory at this point.
OP
OP
Warmongering? Spare me. What country am I advocating aggression against?
I am merely pointing out that Canada with its deficient equipment is currently incapable of asserting its own sovereignty over its own territory. The vast majority of our equipment dates back to the Cold War. Wanting a modern military does not mean I am advocating for imperialistic adventurism.
There have been enough news stories about helicopters and jets falling out of the sky already that wanting our servicemen and women to have at least safe operational equipment is suddenly too much to ask?
I am merely pointing out that Canada with its deficient equipment is currently incapable of asserting its own sovereignty over its own territory. The vast majority of our equipment dates back to the Cold War. Wanting a modern military does not mean I am advocating for imperialistic adventurism.
There have been enough news stories about helicopters and jets falling out of the sky already that wanting our servicemen and women to have at least safe operational equipment is suddenly too much to ask?
I'm pretty sure the US would be the most likely to defend Canada if it ever came to that.
First Nations people might have something to say about that.
In a world of contemporary alliances and superpowers, a national military is less relevant to the sovereignty of post-industrial countries. And "asserting sovereignty" internally through military means sounds... well, it sounds pretty fascistic. The safety aspect I'd grant you.
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That leads to stupid shit like detaining Huawei execs to satisfy blackmailing scams for people like Trump.
So too do free trade agreements.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the US, Russia, China and many other militaries of world could easily invade Canada if they so desired without fear of allies, regardless of how much money was thrown at the Canadian military. Canada is a country of 37 million competing against countries with 10 times that at a minimum and militaries 30 times the size. All military spend from Canada is simply a show of contribution to its allies, it's meaningless in the event of protecting our sovereignty, it's the equivalent of bringing a water gun to war.
As an American if Canadians are fine with staying as incredibly close allies to the U.S. and want to keep the great relationship both of us have. Then I would not worry too much. We have been working closely with each other since WW1 and I doubt that this relationship will ever change.
If Canadians want to pivot and secure their borders on their own that is fine too. Just know it is going to be incredibly costly and difficult to set up the right systems.
If Canadians want to pivot and secure their borders on their own that is fine too. Just know it is going to be incredibly costly and difficult to set up the right systems.
op's correct and we should really stop free-riding off of the US and seriously attempt to meet our NATO defense obligations
The issue is that since the equipment being used now is becoming a liability there are two options, keep up the facade by updating equipment or openly cede protection of the country to our allies. Even if we do the latter, we also know how the other countries runs its military base protection racket across the world so the money is going to spent either way.
Not that it's as easy as building and buying better equipment when every single attempt has been a disaster in the past.
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The biggest issue in the coming years will be asserting sovereignty over the Northwest Passage. Those waterways are interior waterways for Canada, if they can't defend them then they'll lose them and big chunks of their territory in the process.
Right now the US has a policy of treating the Northwest Passage as an international waterway, meaning Canada has no control over it beyond environmental, safety, fishing, and smuggling laws but they wouldn't be able to close the passage, stop or inspect ships without cause, or otherwise control it.
Canada's only solution in my opinion is to get the US on board with it being Canadian waters by coming to agreement to allow US shipping to use the lanes without cost (assuming environmental and safety laws are followed) in exchange for further fortifying Fortress North America and backing Canada's sovereignty claims.
Right now the US has a policy of treating the Northwest Passage as an international waterway, meaning Canada has no control over it beyond environmental, safety, fishing, and smuggling laws but they wouldn't be able to close the passage, stop or inspect ships without cause, or otherwise control it.
Canada's only solution in my opinion is to get the US on board with it being Canadian waters by coming to agreement to allow US shipping to use the lanes without cost (assuming environmental and safety laws are followed) in exchange for further fortifying Fortress North America and backing Canada's sovereignty claims.
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there's something incredibly sad about spending all your free time complaining about not having enough big boy guns to point at those scary ruskies. is this a new form of the midlife crisis?
OP
OP
Seven threads across two years is "all my free time". Got it.
If you want to write a thread criticizing the Canadian government's armed officers I recommend a thread about RCMP invading unceded Indigenous territory
Right but it is a facade regardless of investment.
I'm not saying we stop investing in our military but it's ridiculous to suggest any amount of spend would protect our sovereignty, our strength will always be dependent on our allies.
The value in spending on our military is investing money in buying arms from our allies, not from the arms themselves. This is exactly why Trump is pushing increases in NATO spending because he knows the money floods into their economy.
Regardless of military spending we aren't fooling adversaries, we could quadruple military spending and it'd mean we'd fend them off for 10-20% longer. It's meaningless in the end.
We aren't on an island, we're attached to the worlds most powerful military. You maintain that relationship and your sovereignty is protected, upgrading some planes and ships will do nothing. The actual problem is keeping Cheeto Mussolini happy, who is unreliable in demands on a daily basis, we could spend 30% of our GDP on military and he'd complain about milk.
those could have been seven threads about cool stuff. instead its seven threads demanding the expansion of canadian military power to satiate nationalistic paranoia.
I didn't mean facade in the sense that it's tricking would be invading nations because yea, a few more ships isn't going to fool anyone. Maybe I'm just naive but I meant more the things like NATO which is a bad relic of the cold war but is also that one step removed from actually ceding control by maintaining that formality. We're inextricably linked to the US and giving up the ghost means being more dependent on the whims of what goes on down south.
I am not sure if I see the point in updating conventional military technology when it is unlikely to ever benefit our position in some future engagement. We need good search and rescue, monitoring and surveillance, but combat systems? Why? Who could we meaningfully support or deter? A lot of this seems like just trying to keep archaic systems operable to satisfy traditionalists.
Canada works better as a manufacturing safe haven or bread basket for any major war. Or at least it used to. A modern major war between big powers would be fucked.
Equipment should be maintained at a basic light self-defense, operations support and emergency response level though.
Equipment should be maintained at a basic light self-defense, operations support and emergency response level though.
Exactly. I would rather have taxes give me some dental coverage than go to some military shit that wouldn't protect us against superpowers anyway.
Feels our nation, for the all resources we have to offer, especially fresh water, should ensure that it can defend itself.
According to maritime law, Exclusive Economic Zone of Canada stretches from baseline stretches from coastline to seaward for 200nm. So, in essence, aside from the gentlemen's agreement to let sleeping dogs lie, that waterway is mostly Canada's burden to bear especially if shit hits the fan in terms of pollutants and probable environmental disasters down the line.
A binding and mutually beneficial agreement should be considered and I hope our country does not get bullied into royally getting fucked by your government, especially given Mike Pompeo, another utter fucking degenerate shit-eater filth publicly asserts that my country's claim to NW passage is "illegitimate".
According to maritime law, Exclusive Economic Zone of Canada stretches from baseline stretches from coastline to seaward for 200nm. So, in essence, aside from the gentlemen's agreement to let sleeping dogs lie, that waterway is mostly Canada's burden to bear especially if shit hits the fan in terms of pollutants and probable environmental disasters down the line.
A binding and mutually beneficial agreement should be considered and I hope our country does not get bullied into royally getting fucked by your government, especially given Mike Pompeo, another utter fucking degenerate shit-eater filth publicly asserts that my country's claim to NW passage is "illegitimate".
OP
OP
If it weren't for me bringing it up in "all of my free time", it wouldn't be brought up at all. Chronic underfunding of the military is a problem that all federal parties are reponsible for.
But that's the way we like it seems. We pretend the military doesn't exist and is of little to no importance because it doesn't directly affect our daily lives except for the one token gesture of acknowledgment that is Remembrance Day.
OP
OP
There's a difference between spending $100 on a steak meal and buying a $1 candy bar out of a vending machine for dinner.
