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My brothers have all been brainwashed by the extreme right through the internet
- Thread starter BDS
- Start date
Yeah, this is basically why I am musing on it. It's very easy to place the blame on the algorithms (well-placed blame IMO) but it seems a bit reductionist
as those algorithms are obviously based on popularity that was already there.
I assure you they're too far gone. I'm afraid being exposed to reactionaries and alt-righters in your formative years is hard to come back from.
i still have both of those cds in my car
this place isn't gaf 10 years ago. its progressive but the way it is isn't going to turn any teenagers away from the dark side.
this place is gaf from 10 years ago with 10 years of learning behind it.
most of the audience is the same group but older and more aware. its not as fun or "edgy". its just.... more adult. which as someone who grew up on gaf is a good thing.
It would be good to expose them to left wing youtube types like Three Arrows, Contrapoints and Destiny. There are many more they could listen to as well but they are of course deeply entrenched in their republican viewpoints, it takes time. One of my brothers and I were pretty right wing early on but into our 30s and we've become far more left wing. We grew up with Reagan-era boomer Republican parents too.
Yeah agreed. My daughter will be in judo , kickboxing etc .... if she's into it. Luckily my partner is heavily into kickboxing so chances are there
OP
OP
Because a lot has changed in the last decade. Social justice for people of color and LGBT people is now a massive issue being regularly amplified by the media and by the increasingly diverse peer group around these kids. White kids see their peers celebrating diversity and media representation and social issues for their cause and since teenagers are naturally self-centered, they go "Why can't I feel that way too?" Right-wing propagandists on the internet are happy to answer that question for them.
Just want to say this is a very poignant observation and made a lot of sense to me, thanks.
True, but it is very hard to know whether an argument is being made in bad faith online.
this is very sad, I see it non stop the same thing, young people turning to this "alt-right" via social media...
10 maybe 5 years ago I was hopeful for a more progressive, better future, but now I think the opposite might happen, the reactionaries are taking control of the young minds, and this is the worst possible thing, because unlike old ultra conservative people the young will be here for a while, and their contact with the tragedies of the 20th century are more distant and distorted, I wish you well, but don't have any input that might help with the situation sadly,
10 maybe 5 years ago I was hopeful for a more progressive, better future, but now I think the opposite might happen, the reactionaries are taking control of the young minds, and this is the worst possible thing, because unlike old ultra conservative people the young will be here for a while, and their contact with the tragedies of the 20th century are more distant and distorted, I wish you well, but don't have any input that might help with the situation sadly,
if it makes you feel better iirc most studies show generation z still being more progressive than millennials. its just with internet and access to large platforms that the outspoken bigots take the spotlight. theres still hope!
I was once at a table where some relatives were agreeing that the TV was "incentivizing people to become gay", because one TV show (kind of soap opera, but with different casts every year) had one gay character after 20+ years of that never happening, and there was a gay kiss twice on the same channel in the last year. These Communist-TV channels really are pushing the agenda!
I used to read this type of bullshit on the internet 6-8 years ago, now I get it at Sunday's family lunch. Unbelievable.
Whatsapp is guilty of letting so much shit spread so fast. I hate it.
I used to read this type of bullshit on the internet 6-8 years ago, now I get it at Sunday's family lunch. Unbelievable.
Whatsapp is guilty of letting so much shit spread so fast. I hate it.
I don't watch alt-right content but I get suggested that stuff all the time. If I follow an anime/video game review channel I'll like for example, I'll get consistently suggested alt-right stuff related to those two subjects.
The youtube algorithm is completely it, and a lot of people in the modern age both young and old literally believe everything they see on youtube as a fact.
Back in 2008-2010, I remember seeing my first "SJW" videos of crazy stuff happening on college campuses -gotta admit, I am still very averse to Progressivism because of that stuff. However, I mellowed out. Give your brothers time.
Those videos made it seem like there was a widespread problem here, when 99% of progressives are a lot more chill than that and will explain why they feel certain people are full of shit without getting flared up.
This is easily the shadiest thing the alt right does, preys upon socially awkward teenage rejects who will do just about anything to feel that they belong in some sort of "community", and the temptation to blame women for their poor social lives instead of looking in the mirror is also easy bait. If they're apart of a vocal collective that all believe the same thing, they can't be wrong right? Mob mentality in a nutshell.
It's pretty easy to fall for this shit when the majority of the left is dominated by a centrist politics that more often then not offers nothing of value to anyone. Mainstream right thought these days is this shit amplified by people with power. Anything actually appealing on the left is relegated to a few YouTube channels with a hundred thousand subscribers total. Things have been getting better certainly, but the right has a big head start.
Still seems pretty common to me. That Evergreen stuff was... yeah. Of course, most people are chill, though.
That sucks. Unfortunately, I don't believe there's much you can really do about it. Their views may change over time, it happened to me a few years ago when I went through a phase of entertaining the idea of some shitty opinions and for whatever reason woke up one day and decided I didn't actually believe any of it, but it's a conclusion they need to reach on their own and I have no idea what the catalyst for the epiphany is.
People will always claim they want to debate, but I think it has nothing to do with the transaction of ideas and everything to do with their stances being validated by the existence of opposition. They'll likely become more ingrained if you try and hold them accountable for the shit they espouse. Then again, I'm not a psychologist and might be talking a load of pseudo bollocks.
If I was in that position, I guess I would just do my best not to engage with them until I could eventually more or less entirely cut ties.
People will always claim they want to debate, but I think it has nothing to do with the transaction of ideas and everything to do with their stances being validated by the existence of opposition. They'll likely become more ingrained if you try and hold them accountable for the shit they espouse. Then again, I'm not a psychologist and might be talking a load of pseudo bollocks.
If I was in that position, I guess I would just do my best not to engage with them until I could eventually more or less entirely cut ties.
Unless he got his BA in Criminal Justice, how the fuck do you go from graduating college to training to become a cop? Cops go to college in order to get out of being a cop.
My younger brother is similarly effected. He's not even right wing, but has become more bitter and isolated recently. Though to be fair this is likely in part because he's a born psychopath who's incapable of love and did things like throw puppies off steps and hide sharp objects in candy when he was a kid. Smart enough to not be influenced by extremist ideologies, but still lacking emotions necessary to be someone capable of existing in compassionate society.
Police Officers make a living wage, which is more than a lot of college graduates do.
From the POV of many people not on the left this place is incredibly easy to make fun of, so I'm not so sure that's a good idea. He'd also near-immediately get banned if he posted too.
Depending on the dose, LSD will definitely work. You immediately feel love for everyone and everything.
But if you receive it unknowingly, one can have a very bad time.
Also, given the description of the brothers, is probably looking to be a cop for literally all the reasons that people hates cops.
The best thing I can recommend is just not to engage.
My parents and grandfather have... unfavourable opinions. And when we're at the dinner table together, when they start to go off about it in a way that suggests that they want someone's opinion, I just offer a blank stare and proceed to go right back to what I was doing and refuse to engage further on ANY topic afterwards. It took a year or two and a small amount of dialogue, but they've learned this signal means "what you're saying is going to ostracize you from half of the population, here's a taste of what that looks like, enjoy behaving like a tinfoil hat social pariah on your own time, cuz I ain't fucking having it."
And if no one picks up on what's going on and keeps on keeping on... well, you know they're more interested in their own feelings and opinions and couldn't give two shits about you, or anyone else for that matter. There's no helping people who don't have a shred of empathy, so don't try. Sounds harsh, but so is what you're being asked to swallow.
My parents and grandfather have... unfavourable opinions. And when we're at the dinner table together, when they start to go off about it in a way that suggests that they want someone's opinion, I just offer a blank stare and proceed to go right back to what I was doing and refuse to engage further on ANY topic afterwards. It took a year or two and a small amount of dialogue, but they've learned this signal means "what you're saying is going to ostracize you from half of the population, here's a taste of what that looks like, enjoy behaving like a tinfoil hat social pariah on your own time, cuz I ain't fucking having it."
And if no one picks up on what's going on and keeps on keeping on... well, you know they're more interested in their own feelings and opinions and couldn't give two shits about you, or anyone else for that matter. There's no helping people who don't have a shred of empathy, so don't try. Sounds harsh, but so is what you're being asked to swallow.
That's the worst thing he could do. This is good place if you already have a leftist world view. Getting a right winger in here would push them even further to the right.
I'm pretty sure this is how ISIS does a lot of its recruiting in the West too, with isolated and lonely young Muslims. I'm sure the irony of this would be lost on far right shitbags.
I still remember the talk surrounding the Arab spring about how the Internet is revolutionizing the world and making social changes globally
It really didn't take that long for things to turn to shit did it
It really didn't take that long for things to turn to shit did it
My brother was similarly radicalized. He's a 30+ adult now, so he wasn't an impressionable teenager. It's just my brother has never been the smartest guy in the room, and he's also always had anger management issues. I think these fringey alt-right values exploit his inability to parse things critically and also give him something to direct his anger at.
I don't think he's been, like, as bad as buying into Pizzagate, but he definitely very publicly called me a nazi when I said that deplarforming Milo was for the best.
His new thing is decrying socialism and anything related to socialism when he and his family spent years in public housing utilizing SNAP and temporary assistance for needy families, as well as state funded health insurance. It's fine for him but no one else. The best was when he implied socialist countries don't even have electricity and I had to inform him that the power organization in our town is a publicly owned cooperative. Lost his mind.
There's not a lot you can do, sadly. One on one in person I can sometimes talk a little sense into him, but he doesn't retain it. I've basically given up.
I don't think he's been, like, as bad as buying into Pizzagate, but he definitely very publicly called me a nazi when I said that deplarforming Milo was for the best.
His new thing is decrying socialism and anything related to socialism when he and his family spent years in public housing utilizing SNAP and temporary assistance for needy families, as well as state funded health insurance. It's fine for him but no one else. The best was when he implied socialist countries don't even have electricity and I had to inform him that the power organization in our town is a publicly owned cooperative. Lost his mind.
There's not a lot you can do, sadly. One on one in person I can sometimes talk a little sense into him, but he doesn't retain it. I've basically given up.
A lot of examples ITT of what how perceptions and reactions can be different because we tend to assume anyone posting here is a man by default.
Statistically it's correct (and I'm guilty of it too), but it's clear that just assuming can lead to problems, and we should maybe think about that as a community.
Statistically it's correct (and I'm guilty of it too), but it's clear that just assuming can lead to problems, and we should maybe think about that as a community.
Sorry OP, people are going to be a combination of whoever they hang out with and are exposed to. To change their minds, they need to be exposed to alternative viewpoints, but the 3 brother and your father are perfectly comfortable where they're at, feeding off of each other, so that's probably not going to change. I can't see your one voice having an effect.
I am a father, and am very liberal. My spouse is also very liberal, and surprise, my children are as well. It's something we specifically think about and work hard with.
I have a question for anybody who formerly had these right wing views, and maybe fit the typical profile(white, male, financially well off...). What did it take to change your mind?
I am a father, and am very liberal. My spouse is also very liberal, and surprise, my children are as well. It's something we specifically think about and work hard with.
I have a question for anybody who formerly had these right wing views, and maybe fit the typical profile(white, male, financially well off...). What did it take to change your mind?
Exactly as you said. People in my life who aren't toxic, and who aren't part of that group.
Did you choose to associate with the less toxic influences on your own, after some kind of realization? Or did you fall into a less toxic group somehow and realize how much better people can be?
Honestly some of these people just need to get out of the bubbles they are living in and go learn about other people's life experiences. Spend a month in Africa doing humanitarian work.
I don't know what you can do OP, I'm sorry. Right now everything you say will probably be seen as "the enemy" and immediately discredited. This world is becoming scary.
I don't know what you can do OP, I'm sorry. Right now everything you say will probably be seen as "the enemy" and immediately discredited. This world is becoming scary.
Not white (Puerto Rican), but male and relatively well off. When I was growing up, Fox was the news channel that always on and my dad was the one to teach me about politics and whatnot. I mean, parents know what they're talking about right? The change in mindset was quadfold for me
- joining GAF and reading the impassioned and well-sourced discussions/replies on various issues like gun control, police, systemic racism, and so on
- taking a political history course in freshman year. The professor was very liberal, and I was introduced to ideas like the Constitution as a living document. At the time, my dad and I were mock such notions on the car ride home but that class really did a lot to provide a different perspective on political ideas that I hadn't been aware before
- joining a spectrum peer group on campus after I was diagnosed with Asperger's, where I made friends with gay/trans students and got to hear first-hand what they were dealing with. And in general, have intimate discussions on inclusivity and awareness.
- but the key moment that really opened my eyes to how the right/conversative bubble twists reality is during the coverage of Ferguson protests. I spent a lot of time in the GAF threads, following the live streams from the protests, seeing the interviews with people, seeing the police action against the protests. Only to see such protests being portrayed as opportunistic rioting by Fox and Mark Levin and other conversative outlets. Trying to explain to my dad how Fox's coverage didn't match with the reality of what I was seeing went nowhere.
So basically a combination of college, exposure to new ideas and perspectives, and experiencing the hypocrisy of conversative/right-wing news first-hand is what changed my political views
We're pretty sure he might also be a pedophile or ephebophile, though he controls his behavior as far as anyone knows. But you know how you can just tell what someone is thinking via their expression and body language? He's always been really weird and avoidant around kids and teens and is aware of how it looks so ultimately he's avoidant of pretty much everyone. He's a very messed up person to say the least, so he stays isolated at our grandparents house most of the time.
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In the 2000s, during the depth of the Bush years there was a sense once the then young gamers.grew up and could.vote, things would change. How far we've come.
I am saddened by the corrosive nature of the current discourse. While I generally blame alt right, progressives have done a terrible job selling the message and benefits of sharing privilege to white men. So naturally the view is stuff is being taken away from them and it's easy for the right to move in
I am saddened by the corrosive nature of the current discourse. While I generally blame alt right, progressives have done a terrible job selling the message and benefits of sharing privilege to white men. So naturally the view is stuff is being taken away from them and it's easy for the right to move in
I mean, these people are your family, right? Don't act like you have to have reasoned arguments with them. No family works like that that I've ever met. Just dunk on them over and over again for their stupid bullshit. Trying to be reasonable and have serious arguments just makes it easier for them to put you in the 'stupid libtard' box. Instead, whenever they come out with some bullshit alt-right talking point, make fun of them for parroting stuff they saw on YouTube. Farm them for lulz. The older ones are probably lost, but if you laugh at him enough maybe you can get through to the younger one.
Fundamentally though, they are going to think whatever they want so if they want to believe that shit, it's on them. The only way is to play the long game, and every time one of their ideas gets put into practice and fails or is horrific - like the wall, or separation of families - just use it as an opportunity to laugh at them. Be all like: Oh you thought the wall was a good idea? OMEGALUL. Maybe the real problems are mostly happening because a tiny minority of people control most of the wealth, and the problems we see in our society arise as a result of that inequality? Oh, wait, no, what am I thinking. It's taxes and Mexicans.
That's the most effective tactic when it comes to your siblings IMO. Let them know that they are a chump for believing that kind of rubbish.
Fundamentally though, they are going to think whatever they want so if they want to believe that shit, it's on them. The only way is to play the long game, and every time one of their ideas gets put into practice and fails or is horrific - like the wall, or separation of families - just use it as an opportunity to laugh at them. Be all like: Oh you thought the wall was a good idea? OMEGALUL. Maybe the real problems are mostly happening because a tiny minority of people control most of the wealth, and the problems we see in our society arise as a result of that inequality? Oh, wait, no, what am I thinking. It's taxes and Mexicans.
That's the most effective tactic when it comes to your siblings IMO. Let them know that they are a chump for believing that kind of rubbish.
This isn't even funny. Like, this is about as bad as a rape joke. I'm 100% serious. How can you have taken LSD (I assume you have) and think that this is a funny thing to say, or even mean it seriously if you're not joking?
Politics is the least of your brothers problems it seems.
Having grown up in right wing culture, this place is little too hyperbolic at times in my opinion to be a gateway to left wing ideas.
My avenue into the left was a very odd path.
I had a similar situation in my family, as far as I can tell I wasn't able to have any influence on changing their minds. In one case they came away from it themselves over time. But rather than changing their views they just became apathetic to politics in general. But other family members haven't changed. When I tried to confront their ideas, it wasn't well recieved. They almost take it as a personal attack on them. I would recommend trying different strategies, for example pointing them to media like podcasts or videos that might challenge their views, or trying to have a structured debate/discussion where all parties agree to be civil. But if people are getting aggressive and insulting, it might be too late to do anything and not worth it.
