"My boss lets me set my own salary" - BBC Article

[blonded]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49677147

Whole article worth checking out but some quotes below:

At GrantTree staff first gather information about what others are paid elsewhere for roles similar to their own, Cecilia told BBC Radio 5 Live's Wake Up To Money, in other words how much the firm would have to spend to replace them.
Then they look at how much the company can afford to pay them, and think about how much they have grown as individuals since they first started.

"Based on this data you make a proposal that is reviewed by colleagues," says Cecilia.
"This is quite important, because colleagues are not there to say yes or no, or to approve it. They are there to ask questions and give you some feedback.

After that feedback the employee decides on a figure.

"The key point is that nobody has to prove it; once you make a decision that pay now happens," she says.

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This part in particular is crazy to me:

Cecilia says that two members of staff at GrantTree actually chose to voluntarily reduce their pay after their responsibilities changed.

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Lol at this part:

"A fairly junior person didn't comprehend that the salary increase she was asking for was too much, she was asking for a 50% increase on her salary, which was far more than the role was worth.

"It was her decision but I told her: 'you can take it but if you become uneconomical or your value is not justified then that will only end one way'.

"She reduced what she was asking for after that."

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Obviously right now this is only realistic at smaller tech startups but hypothetically how would you feel if your employer had this system?

 

[Violet]

if my employer tells me I can set my salary I'm going full doctor evil in this bitch

 

[Doomburrito]

I'd like to be paid $1,000,000,000,000 please

 

[mrmoose]

This seems kind of terrible? I mean yeah you set your own salary but you open yourself up to getting canned because the company doesn't value you as highly, and the onus is on you to find the right balance?

I mean that quote is basically them pressuring the employee to voluntarily lower their salaries. "yeah, you asked for this much, but I don't think that's a good idea. It's up to you though."

 

[Deleted member 4367]

You can pick your own salary!

oops too much you're fired.

 

[808s & Villainy]

What kind of libertarian nonsense is this. Also someone willingly lowering their salary is absurd. This must be like the unlimited vacation policies where the psychology of it actually makes people not take advantage of it to its fullest

 

[whatsinaname]

Yeah sorry, this sounds rather fishy. Just like that 'you have unlimited pto'. Sounds good on paper but it is always going to converge to the company's benefits. Seems like a halfway measure people could point to when someone wants to unionise.

 

[jaekeem]

???

this sounds terrible

"lower your salary or we will fire you"

 

[perfectchaos007]

You can pick your own salary!

oops too much you're fired.

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Pretty much. The salary range question on an application is a trap and I hate that in some cases they make a numerical answer mandatory. They'll just interview the folks who chose the lowest range

 

[Ultron]

This seems pretty similar to the "unlimited vacation days!" scheme. Yes, you can theoretically pick whatever salary you're actually worth, but most people will probably underestimate themselves (imposter syndrome is a real thing), and/or because they then think they need to justify what ever they picked, will overwork themselves trying to make them worth of it.

One benefit of it is that it at least sounds like everyone gets to know what their colleagues are making, so that you can't get wrecked that way at least.

 

[Deffers]

What kind of libertarian nonsense is this. Also someone willingly lowering their salary is absurd. This must be like the unlimited vacation policies where the psychology of it actually makes people not take advantage of it to its fullest

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Ring a ding ding. Only an overcompetent sociopath would go ballsy with this-- and the sociopathy bit isn't about the lack of empathy, it's about the poor level of withholding present pleasure for future gain and reduced ability to pick up on social cues. Everyone else? Gets fucked.

 

[Midramble]

Weird way say "being open about how pay is decided". This is sorta the dialogue that should happen anyways in reviews. Let your employees know transparently how the budget works and that fiscal tightness in certain areas puts replacement risks on workers the same way it puts replacement risk on vendors and services.

"Setting your own salary" is just the same as asking for a raise. You have a risk of being too expensive to keep on, but that risk is the reason why open dialogue and negotiation should happen.

 

[El_TigroX]

is this like one of those things like infinite vacation? They find that when people have unlimited days they can take, they actually end up taking less than if it was a standard amount... so... people accidentally sabotage themselves with this?

 

[Deleted member 21709]

Is this a 'did you read OP' trap?

 

[scottbeowulf]

This reminds me of way back when I worked at a Best Buy. They touted that they didn't pay commission for service plan sales like alot of other stores. Which was true. But they still pushed them and if you didn't sell them you got fired. So it was actually worse.

 

[WedgeX]

I'd rather have a group of my fellow employees lobby on my behalf to set standard wages.

 

[Slayven]

Pretty much. The salary range question on an application is a trap and I hate that I'm some cases they make a numerical answer mandatory. They'll just interview the folks who chose the lowest range

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But Ron Paul you sell Libertarianism to the community?

 

[Ebullientprism]

This seems kind of terrible? I mean yeah you set your own salary but you open yourself up to getting canned because the company doesn't value you as highly, and the onus is on you to find the right balance?

I mean that quote is basically them pressuring the employee to voluntarily lower their salaries. "yeah, you asked for this much, but I don't think that's a good idea. It's up to you though."

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Yeah pretty much this. Such a shitty system gift wrapped to look nice.

 

[SugarNoodles]

Because this isn't ripe for abuse

 

[Moist_Owlet]

I would like to be paid in amiibo plz

 

[RedMercury]

On its face I could see it as beneficial for companies like McDonalds where a worker can see what they make and weigh it against what the company makes and where the money is going, but of course it would never be allowed to happen and, really, just fucking pay them more.

 

[perfectchaos007]

But Ron Paul you sell Libertarianism to the community?

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Libertarianism is the same cost as freedom. $1.05

 

[Clay]

Pretty much. The salary range question on an application is a trap and I hate that in some cases they make a numerical answer mandatory. They'll just interview the folks who chose the lowest range

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Maybe it's different in your field but in my experience this isn't true at all. If someone puts something ridiculously high it may affect their odds of getting an interview but using that single criteria would be idiotic.

 

[BumbaT BrowN]

man, its all about comfidence. always make the employer feel that theu are borderline cheating you at any given moment.o

 

[Chopchop]

I once worked at a place so disorganized that they just gave me a blank field to enter my own salary, but I had already agreed on a salary when taking the job offer. This is different, though.

Sounds like there's some passive aggressive shit going on here that tries to pressure people into short selling themselves, and that's shitty.

 

[lt519]

Probably makes the employees feel more responsible about their work output if they are trying to justify their own salaries. Otherwise it's an awful way to do things. You'll get pressured into taking less in fear of asking for too much and/or ask for too much and then be told to take a hike since you aren't worth the work you are doing.

Most probably just pay themselves average or close to average not realizing that they are worth a lot more, especially in this current job economy. Company probably makes out like a bandit.

 

[Jarrod38]

Time to buy the Blank Check mansion plus closing cost.

 

[808s & Villainy]

But Ron Paul you sell Libertarianism to the community?

Click to shrink...

 

[Acorn]

I'll have one million for one minute please.

 

[Hektor]

This sounds like a system poised to exploit the fact that most people undersell themselfs

 

[onadesertedisland]

If the roles were reversed, say if the CEO was allowed to set their own salary, they would absolutely max out the amount and grift as much as they could regardless of the situation. So I say, max it out. It's all temporary anyway, right? The short term is all that matters, right?

 

[Froyo Love]

Y'all: everyone's going to be pressured to reduce their salaries or be fired and it's going to be miserable

The article: salaries went up by 10%, employee retention increased.

At one of the firms, granted, but this reaction is ridiculous. There are hypothetical ways this could be implemented abusively, sure, but the approaches described in the article where employees are seeing each other's salary proposals and giving feedback, or the company sharing total project budgetary information with the employees in salary discussions, are not indicative of that at all.

 

[Extra Sauce]

"A fairly junior person didn't comprehend that the salary increase she was asking for was too much, she was asking for a 50% increase on her salary, which was far more than the role was worth.

"It was her decision but I told her: 'you can take it but if you become uneconomical or your value is not justified then that will only end one way'.

"She reduced what she was asking for after that."

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Since severance packages are based on your salary, I would still go ahead and ask for a one billion dollar salary.

 

[Neece]

Y'all: everyone's going to be pressured to reduce their salaries or be fired and it's going to be miserable

The article: salaries went up by 10%, employee retention increased.

At one of the firms, granted, but this reaction is ridiculous. There are hypothetical ways this could be implemented abusively, sure, but the approaches described in the article where employees are seeing each other's salary proposals and giving feedback, or the company sharing total project budgetary information with the employees in salary discussions, are not indicative of that at all.

Click to shrink...

Lol

 

[mrmoose]

Y'all: everyone's going to be pressured to reduce their salaries or be fired and it's going to be miserable

The article: salaries went up by 10%, employee retention increased.

At one of the firms, granted, but this reaction is ridiculous. There are hypothetical ways this could be implemented abusively, sure, but the approaches described in the article where employees are seeing each other's salary proposals and giving feedback, or the company sharing total project budgetary information with the employees in salary discussions, are not indicative of that at all.

Click to shrink...

So if salaries went up by 10% was the company severely underpaying their employees, or did their budget just happen to grow and they had more senior positions?

In most companies there is a budget set aside for salaries, bonuses, etc. Naturally, the employees fight over the scraps, whether it's they themselves doing it, their managers doing it, their manager's managers, whatever. I'm not sure how that changes just because the employees can initiate. What happens when I tell you that no, the budget doesn't allow for what you're asking mainly because you guys got together and told Bob he should get a raise?

 

[Nacho]

4 billion a year, get fired after 1 paycheck.

Probably still worth it.

Unless of course its a job you actually want, then it does sound kinda cool even if it probably doesnt work out in the long run.

 

[Deleted member 4367]

Y'all: everyone's going to be pressured to reduce their salaries or be fired and it's going to be miserable

The article: salaries went up by 10%, employee retention increased.

At one of the firms, granted, but this reaction is ridiculous. There are hypothetical ways this could be implemented abusively, sure, but the approaches described in the article where employees are seeing each other's salary proposals and giving feedback, or the company sharing total project budgetary information with the employees in salary discussions, are not indicative of that at all.

Click to shrink...

It says in the article if you ask for too much you'll be fired for being uneconomical.

 

[Froyo Love]

It says in the article if you ask for too much you'll be fired for being uneconomical.

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You'll be fired or asked to take a pay cut if your salary is uneconomical in a traditional company, also.

 

[IndieCredGamer]

Is this odd? I set my own salary.

 

[nekkid]

So shifting things from a collaborative negotiation to 100% onus on the employee.

Sounds great...

 

[Bomblord]

This sounds like the employer wanted to get rid of some HR roles so they put the burden of figuring out what the proper balance of economic viability, individual worth, company priorities, and pay negotiation onto the individual employees.

I thought the idea was interesting until I read the part about the junior who apparently didn't realize she wasn't worth as much money as she thought she was and told she would be fired if what she set was unprofitable. The fact people took voluntary pay cuts is also telling.

 

[samoyed]

This is better than waiting for raises that will never come but it's very much an "illusion of choice" thing. You will never actually get more than your role is worth but you can proactively stop yourself from being underpaid.

Not quite the same as union negotiation but, again, it's better than wage stagnation.

 

[Dennis8K]

looooooooooooooooool I would ask for so much money and not feel an ounce of shame

 

[Bio]

After decades of undervaluing labor and making people believe they're worth less than they are, we're now letting people "set their own salaries" under that conditioned thinking. Strikes me as a good way to pay people less without having to be the bad guy, nothing more.

 

[kiguel182]

I mean, you could try to squeeze money from your boss but after a while you could become more costly than he would find acceptable so you will end up choosing something close to your market value any way.

 

[RavFiveFour]

Smells odd, everyone involved in this just sounds odd.

 

[ElMexiMerican]

"Yep, you sure can set your salary!*"


*Nothing greater than $xxxxx/yr, but feel free to go as low as you want!


That's how I cynically view this model ultimately turning into if standardized.

 

[bombermouse]

This seems like a trap, like "Unlimited PTO"

 

[Deleted member 6173]

sounds like a cool experiment. I wonder how it would turn out long term.

 

[WascallyWabbit]

It sounds like it's working for these guys and their employees are happy and their seems to be more pay transparency, which IMO is always a good thing. Sounds like it may only work for smaller companies but I'm interested to track how this works