My biggest dislike about the MCU Spider-Man film series

[The Artisan]

tl;dr at the bottom

Let me start off by saying I am hyped for Spider-Man 3.

I liked Far From Home and I liked Homecoming overall, but there are quite a few things about them that I dislike. The biggest being that there is just something about these films that don't really make them feel like actual independent standalone Spider-Man films. The MCU is the most magnificent shared film universe there has ever been, and there should be a level of reminders throughout each installment that everything is connected.

But I feel like there is an overwhelming connection to the Iron Man mythos in the Spider-Man films. And for that reason, instead of feeling like Spider-Man installments in the MCU, they feel more like Iron Man spinoffs to me. In Homecoming, Tony Stark himself appears as a supporting character. And that's fine - as I said there should be a level of reminders of connection in these films, and that includes major characters making appearances in other films. But Iron Man's influence in the film goes beyond just his presence. The motivation of the main villain Vulture is to steal weapons from the Avengers, including Stark tech. Happy Hogan who is a recurring supporting character for Iron Man, ends up showing a comparable amount of screen time as a supporting character throughout this film as well.

This same feeling carried into Far From Home too. I understand the film is supposed to be an epilogue chapter to the Infinity Saga and that Peter is grieving because of the mentor relationship he had with Tony, but that element of the film could still have been executed without the presence (or literal missing "presence") of the Iron Man mythos. The main villain Mysterio is an ex-Stark Industries employee. Part of his motivation seems to be revenge, because he hated Tony Stark. Peter was part of an obstacle in the middle of his redemption plan. And it's not just him. Mysterio has been working with a whole team of ex-Stark industries employees. The central plot of the film is Peter struggling with the idea of being Tony's successor - and that includes a pair of glasses with EDITH built in, new Stark tech that Tony intended for his successor to inherit. Once again, Happy Hogan, a supporting character from the Iron Man mythos plays a supporting role - arguably an even more significant role in another Spider-Man film. They took it so far that they even added the running gag of him crushing on Aunt May. Then at the end of the film, Peter manufactures a new suit using Stark tech again. This was a thing dating back to his debut in the MCU in Cap3, but to add insult to injury this time around Peter also has new web-shooters developed for him using Stark tech. Everything material-wise was ready for him because of the now deceased Iron Man.

I don't know if the Iron Man bubble was an executive choice from Sony to Disney, with them believing that the Spider-Man reboot would have the highest chance of success if Iron Man was involved in it as much as creatively possible or if it really was how Marvel Studios wanted to tell Peter Parker's story all along. If this is the result of the former, I understand it but I still don't like it. If it is the latter, then in my opinion it comes across as an example of some weak writing and that the storytelling and narrative could have been done better for Spider-Man in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

But like I said, I did enjoy both films...I just found them underwhelming. I believe there are quite a few more issues with this series, but this presentation is the biggest one of all. And I am hyped for Spider-Man 3 with all the rumors about it going around. Hell, against popular opinion I'm hyped to see how Tom Holland as Spider-Man will eventually if ever, cross paths with Tom Hardy as Venom.

tl;dr (best I could do to condense)

I know the MCU is all about connections and that it's common for a main character to appear in another main character's film, but in my opinion there has been too much Iron Man and Iron Man mythos involvement in the Spider-Man films to the point that they just feel like Iron Man spinoff movies. Iron Man himself appears in Homecoming. That's fine, he is Spider-Man's mentor, but Vulture's main objective is to steal weapons from the Avengers, including Stark tech. Happy Hogan is portrayed as a supporting character for Spider-Man in this film almost as much as he is in the Iron Man film series.

Happy is back again in Far From Home in a more significant role and Stark Industries has an even bigger presence in the sequel. I get that this is post-Endgame and Peter's mourning, but they could have had that element of the film without all the rest of Iron Man related involvement but there was a lot of it. The main villain himself Mysterio is an ex-Stark Industries employee, working with a team of ex-Stark Industries employees, trying to obtain a piece of new Stark tech that just happens to be in Spider-Man's possession. In the third act, Spider-Man gets a new suit thanks to Stark Industries that's nothing new but then he also gets new web shooters too. It takes away from capabilities of Spider-Man as the main character making Far From Home less authentic as a Spider-Man film.

To me, there is a lot more wrong with the MCU Spider-Man films than what I made this thread about, but this is my biggest issue with it.

 

[PanzerKraken]

Yea my biggest issue with them, too much trying to be connected to the MCU rather than being a Spiderman movie. The 2nd one was worse with its tying into the MCU stuff.

 

[HeyNay]

I don't care for this naive boyhood version of Spider-Man we keep getting. I wish Marvel would give us a more competent, experienced take on the character already, but Hollywood writing is so entrapped in the whole "every hero must learn a lesson" trope that keeps characters like Spider-Man stuck in perpetual adolescence.

 

[Deleted member 8901]

I agree. Spider Man feels like an Iron Man sidekick who is completely dependent on Stark to do anything right

 

[kai3345]

I don't care for this naive boyhood version of Spider-Man we keep getting. I wish Marvel would give us a more competent, experienced take on the character already, but Hollywood writing is so entrapped in the whole "every hero must learn a lesson" trope that keeps characters like Spider-Man stuck in perpetual adolescence.

Click to shrink...

he's an adult throughout basically the entirety of the raimi trilogy

 

[Ambient]

This is why I don't like any of the MCU Spider Man stuff.

 

[SilverX]

I hate that High School life and field trips are equally as important as saving people in these films. Its like FOMO is the arch enemy of MCU Spidey

 

[AmirMoosavi]

I don't care for this naive boyhood version of Spider-Man we keep getting. I wish Marvel would give us a more competent, experienced take on the character already, but Hollywood writing is so entrapped in the whole "every hero must learn a lesson" trope that keeps characters like Spider-Man stuck in perpetual adolescence.

Click to shrink...

The comics are similarly guilty in refusing to let Peter Parker age. I started collecting The Amazing Spider-Man in '97 when I was 9, and I remember around that time a friend of mine bought an issue of Spider-Man Unlimited illustrated by Joe Bennett and Peter had stubble in it, and I thought it looked so cool.

They refused to let Pete and MJ have a kid together for fears it would alienate kids. Then in '07 they reset years of continuity with Brand New Day, starting the first issue of that arc with "hip, swinging" Peter Parker kissing some random young woman at a club and I said "Sod this". That was the end of a decade of collecting, never bought an issue since.

That said, I have enjoyed the MCU films, but share OP's criticisms.

 

[badatorigami]

I HATED Far From Home's framing of Spiderman receiving control of an orbital weapons system that can deal death around the world at will as a good and even touching development. Awful.

Homecoming was pretty alright though.

 

[Richiek]

I hate that High School life and field trips are equally as important as saving people in these films. Its like FOMO is the arch enemy of MCU Spidey

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But isn't the whole point of Spider-Man in the comics is that Peter's personal life is equally important as his superhero career?

 

[Deleted member 81119]

I feel exactly the same, but I wonder how much that is simply me pining for the classic style Spider Man films where the focus is entirely on him and his self-actualisation. This is different, and it'll never feel like THE true spider man as a result...but the films are still great in their own right.

 

[HeyNay]

he's an adult throughout basically the entirety of the raimi trilogy

Click to shrink...

He doesn't act like one though. It isn't about his age on paper. Peter is a whiny child the entire trilogy and spends all of SM3 acting like a 14 yr old emo. They still haven't nailed his character in a live action film, IMO. The closest is maybe Spider-Verse.

 

[Parthenios]

Counterpoint: We already had five solo Spider-man films; the point of an MCU Spidey is the connections to everyone else.

Also: if Holland plays Peter to the same age as RDJ played Tony, we have like 30 more years of movies, so it's fine if he starts as a teen dependent on others and grows into being that adult himself later.

 

[PhoenixAKG]

Yeah same here. It's also jarring how he seems to care more for Iron Man than Uncle Ben. I get not wanting to redo Uncle Ben's death and the grieving but come on. It's also jarring as part of the appeal of Spider-Man was his independence and growing on his own. While he does have a close relationship to the FF, he still was largely independent.

 

[BWoog]

There are definitely some good parts to the two movies, but man it is just too connected to the MCU and having Peter bounce around the world in 2 just didn't work.

 

[gnarlyxcharlie]

I love these almost as much as the first two raimi movies. I hope Holland signs on for more and we get a spiderman that ages accordingly

 

[Alexandros]

I don't have an issue at all with the MCU connections, in fact I quite enjoy them. My only real issue is that I don't find the high-school stuff engaging and I much prefer Spider-man stories with him as a young adult. I think that's normal though because I am old and these stories don't resonate with me.

 

[kitler53]

i will never forgive them for replacing uncle ben with uncle tony stark.

MCU ruined these movies.

 

[SilverX]

But isn't the whole point of Spider-Man in the comics is that Peter's personal life is equally important as his superhero career?

Click to shrink...

Thats arguable of any super hero, but the way the MCU Spidey movies do it makes it feel like kid bullshit because they have silly preteen quips non-stop.

I mean I have never felt so "Who gives a flying fuck?" watching a movie than I do with these films

 

[Messofanego]

With MCU's whole military imperialist bent, it's a shame that the result was Peter Parker doing war crimes and drone warfare.

 

[Devil]

I completely agree and want to add that I just miss the typical swinging through Manhattan Spidey.

I like both movies but they didn't capture the Spider-Man feeling for me

But the after-credits scene in Far From Home gave me hope this will change in SM3!

 

[Reluctantly Gumblesmug]

I agree. My favorite Spidey is a smart engineer in his own right, and him getting so much stark tech handed to him robs him of that.

 

[beansontoast]

I think they are solid films and definitely better than the Marc Webb ones, but the MCU constraints limit them from being anywhere nearly as good as Spiderman 2 (or Spiderverse). This is just a problem with the MCU in general, where it's very difficult for a film to be either absolutely terrible or amazing. It's not really surprising that my favourite MCU films (e.g. the Guardians films) tend to be the ones that are least bothered with the interconnected narrative.

 

[dunkzilla]

Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man is my favourite Spider-Man and neither film has much of that. I hate them to be honest.

 

[Seijuro]

I absolutely agree, I love both movies, but the dependance and constant mentioning of Tony Stark/Iron Man is tiring. I hope the third movie finally leaves Tony Stark behind for good.

 

[SigSig]

It fucking sucks. Anything touched by the MCU just becomes place to praise the Avengers and their highly questionable politics.

 

[Gustaf]

i think is very stupid to "Create" another company with adcanced technology for the spiderman villains to use.

when stark industries is right there.

for me is honestly killing 2 birds with one stone, they dont need to explain where these villains are getting the technology or whatever and it being "stark tech" has a little bit of weight for Peter.

so i dont have any problem with that at all.

 

[plain]

I'd feel the same way but we're still only two solo films in.

 

[Keldroc]

Counterpoint: We already had five solo Spider-man films; the point of an MCU Spidey is the connections to everyone else.

Also: if Holland plays Peter to the same age as RDJ played Tony, we have like 30 more years of movies, so it's fine if he starts as a teen dependent on others and grows into being that adult himself later.

Click to shrink...

This and this. Plenty of time for older Peter storylines. They cast him young for a reason. I would like to see the Holland Spidey grow into his own hero in Phase 4 and 5 as so many new characters take up superheroing, but I suspect Feige has that planned as long as Amy Pascal doesn't do anything stupid. Honestly I feel like the strong integration of Spider-Man into the rest of the MCU is in part a defensive measure against Sony trying to take him back. If the MCU established Spidey as a more independent line of films Sony could easily be like "Oh we get how to do it now, we'll take that back now, bye!" Keeping him tied strongly to the Avengers and now the multiverse/cosmic/magic stuff also guarantees that Sony can't just go make their own version of it and have the audience not notice. They have to keep him in the MCU to keep reaping the benefits.

 

[MarcelloF]

I hate that they took away his secret identity so quickly. Him balancing his personal and hero life with that secret is way better than everyone just knowing. Now if he's late for something or whatever, people getting annoyed will just look kinda selfish.

Then there's his pretty much complete lack of financial struggles. He goes to some special school for smart kids, that one joke of him constantly needing to buy new backpacks or Stark Industries paying for a trip for him to Europe. I wish we got to see the struggles more. Everything just seems to be handed to him in the MCU.

Uncle Ben also seems to have no presence in these movies. They don't have to show his death and everything again, but I think he's gotten like one mention. Tony has had a much stronger influence on Pete's outlook.

 

[demondance]

The first Iron Man film colors the rest of the universe. Vision being tied to JARVIS and all that. It's just how the MCU works. It's not my favorite thing either, but I understand the internal consistency they're going for with it. It's to add clarity to the connected universe, for people who are seeing these movies once in the theaters and moving on until the next one. You can't tell stories the same way you would in monthly comics coming out by the dozens.

I wish we had the usual working class, kind of isolated Spider-Man that other heroes see as basically a nobody. That's the kind of Spider-Man I grew up with, though, so it is what it is. I never enjoyed the takes on Spider-Man that reflect how popular he is in the real world, and apply those warm feelings back to the character. He's an underdog, he's loveable because he has to try harder than everybody else and rarely gets credit for it, you know?

I'm also not a fan of how much they cribbed from Miles Morales for these movies. Especially now that Miles himself has become a high-profile character with his own movie and game. I wish Miles himself could've gotten his moment in a live action film without Peter Parker stealing so much of his shine.

They tried something different here, it's not something I enjoy all that much. Love the actors in these though. That's what makes them really watchable films.

 

[MechaMarmaset]

They turned him into Iron Man Jr. What's the point of the Spider powers when it's all Stark tech and he has basically a spider skinned iron man suit? Also, keep him in New York.

I also feel like spiderman works better as a college student than a high school student. High school plots are boring, and movies can't handle them without being excessively corny. Seriously, I'm so damn tired of MCU humor. I'll take DC's crappy edgy attempts over MCU's excessive bland, saw-it-coming-a-1000-miles-away laughs.

 

[Aprikurt]

Thats arguable of any super hero, but the way the MCU Spidey movies do it makes it feel like kid bullshit because they have silly preteen quips non-stop.

I mean I have never felt so "Who gives a flying fuck?" watching a movie than I do with these films

Click to shrink...

He's a teenager.

That was literally what set him apart from other superheroes in the 60s.

They turned him into Iron Man Jr. What's the point of the Spider powers when it's all Stark tech and he has basically a spider skinned iron man suit? Also, keep him in New York.

I also feel like spiderman works better as a college student than a high school student. High school plots are boring, and movies can't handle them without being excessively corny. Seriously, I'm so damn tired of MCU humor. I'll take DC's crappy edgy attempts over MCU's excessive bland, saw-it-coming-a-1000-miles-away laughs.

Click to shrink...

Oh wow, what a clever moniker. You might be the first one to come up with that, you should make a spicy meme lest Reddit miss out.

 

[Deleted member 12352]

It's better they did something different than basically going to the same well the previous 5 movies had done with such mixed results.

 

[Mars]

I'd feel the same way but we're still only two solo films in.

Click to shrink...

Eh, that's more than enough room for Spidey to spread his wings; look at the Ant-man films. They aren't heavy handed with the MCU Universe tie-in.

 

[flaxknuckles]

i think is very stupid to "Create" another company with adcanced technology for the spiderman villains to use.

when stark industries is right there.

for me is honestly killing 2 birds with one stone, they dont need to explain where these villains are getting the technology or whatever and it being "stark tech" has a little bit of weight for Peter.

so i dont have any problem with that at all.

Click to shrink...

Oscorp though

 

[MechaMarmaset]

Oh wow, what a clever moniker. You might be the first one to come up with that, you should make a spicy meme lest Reddit miss out.

Click to shrink...

I wasn't trying to be clever. No need to be a twat.

 

[JonaB1986]

One of the biggest problems for me is the MJ cop out. The "hey she's MJ, but just not that MJ" is BS. Such a cop out, should have just made Zendaya Mary Jane, or a new character completely.

 

[The Artisan]

Counterpoint: We already had five solo Spider-man films; the point of an MCU Spidey is the connections to everyone else.

Also: if Holland plays Peter to the same age as RDJ played Tony, we have like 30 more years of movies, so it's fine if he starts as a teen dependent on others and grows into being that adult himself later.

Click to shrink...

Two counterpoints to yours:

1. If your logic is that the original film trilogy and the ASM series make up the five true solo Spider-Man films contrary to the MCU "home" series, then going by that logic that would also mean that the MCU Spidey films are not true solo Spider-Man films. And that isn't a pro, that is a con.

2. If the point of an MCU Spidey is the connections to everyone else, then it fails at that point. It doesn't connect to everyone else (apart from Iron Man) any more than any other non-ensemble MCU film. Homecoming has a Captain America cameo and a Bruce Banner reference, but literally all MCU films apply those techniques to incorporate the bigger universe without compromising the main narrative of the respective films. My OP isn't a criticism of the MCU Spider-Man films or any other MCU films making references and cameos in one another's, it is a criticism of how much the Spider-Man film series in particular feels like is produced under the umbrella of the Iron Man film series. What these films are guilty of are having too much to do with Iron Man and the Iron Man mythos.

Tony wasn't that much of a mentor to Peter in the comics as far as I know but I am fine with this mentor relationship in the MCU. But the Spider-Man films could have been done without living up to Tony Stark/Iron Man as the overwhelming narrative.

 

[demondance]

One of the biggest problems for me is the MJ cop out. The "hey she's MJ, but just not that MJ" is BS. Such a cop out, should have just made Zendaya Mary Jane, or a new character completely.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I don't get that either. Comes off like they felt the need to hedge their bets due to their choice of actor. We should be past that sort of thing by now.

Tony wasn't that much of a mentor to Peter in the comics as far as I know but I am fine with this mentor relationship in the MCU. But the Spider-Man films could have been done without living up to Tony Stark/Iron Man as the overwhelming narrative.

Click to shrink...

Oh, he was, but not early on. Like a lot of things in the MCU, it comes from the comics circa 2000-2010.

 

[VorpalNonsense]

My biggest complaint is simply that I miss all the tall building swinging acrobatics
this spider spends a lot of time close to the ground

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

One of the biggest problems for me is the MJ cop out. The "hey she's MJ, but just not that MJ" is BS. Such a cop out, should have just made Zendaya Mary Jane, or a new character completely.

Click to shrink...

I still don't even understand who she's supposed to be.

My biggest beef with the new Spiderman is the MCU already leans towards being very humorous, and Spiderman lends himself to that type of humour, so they lean into it there. It just feels like a lot. I need more very personal melodrama Spiderman 2 style. That was a great character story. I just don't really feel any way about the new Spiderman. Breezy fun I guess.

Even the PS4 game did a better job with telling that kind of story.

 

[DIE BART DIE]

Homecoming is the best live action Spider-Man movie. Spider-Verse is the best Spider-Man film in general.

 

[Deleted member 85465]

I was positive on homecoming, because I thought Spiderman rejecting the avengers at the end was the start of the character being more self-reliant.


But far from home just gets worse on rewatch, not only is Iron Man the central motivator for everything that happens in the plot, Peter actively trying to evade responsibility by not even wanting to pack in the suit for the vacation, for some reason not having any moral conflict about Iron Man creating a global weapon which is almost exactly the weapon Hydra made in Capitan America 2 minus predicting future criminals, etc.

I feel the mcu connectivity is making difficult to develop arcs between movies, for example Thors arc is kind of undermined form ragnarok to infinity war and endgame, and in this case Spiderman's arc from rejecting the avengers to accepting being an avenger in the next movie he appears in (homecoming to infinity war) .

I am still anticipating Spiderman 3 though, I liked homecoming and I have a mixed opinion on far from home.

 

[Blader]

For a second I thought this was going to be a new criticism lol.

I think the extent to which MCU Spidey is just "Iron Man Jr." is really overblown. Like yeah, this version of the character has a strong personal tie to Tony Stark. But he still very much stands on his own feet. That's in large part what both movies have been about!

I hate that High School life and field trips are equally as important as saving people in these films. Its like FOMO is the arch enemy of MCU Spidey

Click to shrink...

Well he is a kid, and that has been core to the character since the beginning.

 

[Parthenios]

1. If your logic is that the original film trilogy and the ASM series make up the five true solo Spider-Man films contrary to the MCU "home" series, then going by that logic that would also mean that the MCU Spidey films are not true solo Spider-Man films. And that isn't a pro, that is a con.

Click to shrink...

If I go down to the comics stand and pick up the current Spider-man issue, what's the probability that there's a character from outside Spider-man in it?

 

[Tochtli79]

As someone who likes Spider-Man but has no interest in the rest of the MCU, yup. Especially because it seems like they're just forcing the MCU to unnecessarily replace things already present in Spider-Man, for example Oscorp being replaced by Stark Industries, Uncle Ben's role in Peter's life AND his mentor being Octavius both being replaced by Tony Stark, and... maybe others.

Actually I think I may only like these modern Spider-Man movies because of the action sequences, because thinking on it I feel no attachment to any of the characters and the writing/humour isn't really my thing either.

 

[demondance]

Homecoming is the best live action Spider-Man movie. Spider-Verse is the best Spider-Man film in general.

Click to shrink...

Spider-Verse is why I'm not too up in my feels over MCU Spider-Man not being my favorite. I got a great Spider-Man movie alongside it all, I'm good.

 

[Plywood]

Tom Holland's Spider-man is there to solely exist in the shadow of others. First it was Iron Man and then coping with the loss of Iron Man and looking towards Mysterio and now with the rumored Spider-verse well guess what!!!!

Overall it is disappointing he has yet to get a true stand-alone film or at the least a Spider-man centric story.

 

[Chumunga64]

I'm cool with it. I feel like having Spider-Man join the mcu this late is why all spidey is like this