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Jokab

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
875
Exercise physiologists agree: muscle memory is real. But how are these 'memories' stored? A review has a simple answer: nuclei gained during training persist even when muscle cells shrink due to disuse or start to break down. This means we can 'bank' nuclei in our youth to prevent frailty in old age -- and makes steroid use in competitive sport a perfect but irredeemable crime.

"Anabolic steroids produce a permanent increase in users' capacity for muscle development. In keeping with this, studies show that mice given testosterone acquire new myonuclei that persist long after the steroid use ends."

Source: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190125084106.htm

From what I understand this has been proposed for a while, but scientists have disagreed on whether this is the case or not. Now it's essentially confirmed.

I think this is very interesting. In the light of this, should we really allow athletes convicted of doping to compete again?
 

artsi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,684
Finland
Not related to steroid usage but I've certainly noticed this in my own training.
When you've got to a certain level once it's much easier to get there again, even if you don't train for a long time.
 

Firaga

Member
Oct 29, 2017
734
The steroid usage thing is known. That's why there should be a lifetime ban for users in competitive sports.
 

Banzai

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
2,585
Wait, so...Can I just inject some steroids once and have an easier time to build muscle for the rest of my life? I'm not doing any competetive sports so might as well, right.
 

Awesome Kev

Banned
Jan 10, 2018
1,670
Wait, so...Can I just inject some steroids once and have an easier time to build muscle for the rest of my life? I'm not doing any competetive sports so might as well, right.

lol you don't "just inject steroids once" and get ripped. It's a process like anything else and you still have to put in the work while on a cycle, it doesn't just magically make you bigger or stronger
 

Banzai

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
2,585
lol you don't "just inject steroids once" and get ripped. It's a process like anything else and you still have to put in the work while on a cycle, it doesn't just magically make you bigger or stronger

I know that. I just want some of them myonuclei that might make it easier if I ever do decide to get off my fat ass and work out.
 

CDX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,476
A review has a simple answer: nuclei gained during training persist even when muscle cells shrink due to disuse or start to break down. This means we can 'bank' nuclei in our youth to prevent frailty in old age -- and makes steroid use in competitive sport a perfect but irredeemable crime.

"Anabolic steroids produce a permanent increase in users' capacity for muscle development. In keeping with this, studies show that mice given testosterone acquire new myonuclei that persist long after the steroid use ends."

If this is confirmed, and lifetime bans for steroid use are being proposed because of it. Doesn't this also have implications for Male to Female trans athletes, that transitioned after they've went through male puberty?
 

artsi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,684
Finland
I know that. I just want some of them myonuclei that might make it easier if I ever do decide to get off my fat ass and work out.

In theory, yes. But you'd have to work out hard to generate those nuclei, they don't grow by just using steroids.

But seriously don't start doping if you don't even work out, you will have very quick progression (also known as "noob gains") when you just start lifting.
 
Dec 31, 2017
7,087
That's very interesting. Not that it's worth much, however my personal experience suggests a similar finding. When I first strength trained it took a while to reach a certain level. Over time I fell off of strength training and did other forms of exercise; when I returned to it, my lifts were significantly decreased, but I was able to bring them back in a fraction of the original time. Of course there are a lot of confounders in my anecdote, but I wonder how much of that had to do with dormant myonuclei. Pretty cool stuff.

I know that. I just want some of them myonuclei that might make it easier if I ever do decide to get off my fat ass and work out.

Those new myonuclei form in response to a certain stressor, i.e. exercise. Once they are formed, they remain. So using anabolic steroids won't do the trick alone.
 

artsi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,684
Finland
That's very interesting. Not that it's worth much, however my personal experience suggests a similar finding. When I first strength trained it took a while to reach a certain level. Over time I fell off of strength training and did other forms of exercise; when I returned to it, my lifts were significantly decreased, but I was able to bring them back in a fraction of the original time. Of course there are a lot of confounders in my anecdote, but I wonder how much of that had to do with dormant myonuclei. Pretty cool stuff.

Yeah man, when you train again you just fill those sweet muscles in fast track.

This is a simple but pretty good image of how this works, the black dots are the myonuclei:

https://www.pnas.org/content/107/34/15111

q08HTuK.jpg
 

Fairy Godmother

Backward compatible
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
3,289
I know that. I just want some of them myonuclei that might make it easier if I ever do decide to get off my fat ass and work out.
I get what you mean. This basically says you don't lose the "gains/muscle memory" you got in your roid phase even when you stop using it.

Anabolic steroid, however, ages your body, and cause permanent damages (shrunk testies, acnes, liver diseases...), so I would advise against using it.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,688

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,963
Yeh, it's extremely noticeable.

The first time I started running regularly it took me a long time to get in decent shape. Since then I've had 3-6months pauses several times and after each one of them it only took like 2-3 runs to get in a decent form again.

It's actually really nice to know you don't have to start from zero after a longer period of laziness.
 

Awesome Kev

Banned
Jan 10, 2018
1,670
That's a common misconception. There have been studies that show that doing no training on steroids is nearly as effective as training without drugs for some body parts.

It's a complete waste of all that steroidy goodness... but to say it doesn't make you bigger without training is incorrect.

Edit - One of the studies: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101

362r1.jpg

I'm not misconceiving anything, you still have to workout several times a week if you want to get jacked while using steroids.

Sure you may get marginally "bigger" compared to if you weren't taking any at all, no ones is arguing against that, but you're not going to get "big" like people who use them in conjunction with a solid workout routine. In fact, the misconception tis that you'll get that big by just using steroids without working out, and it absolutely doesn't work like that. You still have to work out if you want those crazy results you typically see with people who use steroids.

Also, I was mainly trying to address the idea of injecting steroids once as being a way to make it easier to build muscle for the rest of your life. I seriously doubt there is any truth to that.

EDIT: After reading my first post again I kind of jumped the gun on saying "ripped", I see what the poster I quoted was saying now. Still though, I'm not quite buying the idea that taking steroids one time is going to give you life long health benefits as it relates to muscles.
 
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-JD-

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,470
The author is overthinking the usage and meaning of the adage "use it or lose it".
 

artsi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,684
Finland
Yeh, it's extremely noticeable.

The first time I started running regularly it took me a long time to get in decent shape. Since then I've had 3-6months pauses several times and after each one of them it only took like 2-3 runs to get in a decent form again.

It's actually really nice to know you don't have to start from zero after a longer period of laziness.

Yeah it's like checkpoints for your muscles. How cool is that?
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
Yeah it's like checkpoints for your muscles. How cool is that?
Muscle Checkpoints make a lot of sense, and I'm surprised science has discovered them only now. I'm overweight and have been saying it for years that there is no way in hell all my muscle mass has gone to fat, 3 times I slipped and got uber lazy, and all 3 times I look slightly thinner at 115kg. Granted I don't work out, but its been 6 years of heavy lifting and 10 hour work shifts on my feet, but still.
 

Heraldic

Prophet of Regret
The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,633
So, we'll just ignore all of the other potent side effects from steroid usage? Can't happen.
 

Zelenogorsk

Banned
Mar 1, 2018
1,567
I did a lot of strength training in my late highschool/early college years so this is good news for me!
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,257
Yeh, it's extremely noticeable.

The first time I started running regularly it took me a long time to get in decent shape. Since then I've had 3-6months pauses several times and after each one of them it only took like 2-3 runs to get in a decent form again.

It's actually really nice to know you don't have to start from zero after a longer period of laziness.
I've had this happen with boxing and it surprised me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
385
Tn, USA
This probably explains why you can get injured so easily after a break. Your muscles (re)adapt to the previous training regime faster than the rest of you so you can easily over-train and pull something (at least this is what happens to me if I'm not careful).