MS and Sony update/clarify BC status for next-gen consoles

[Iron Eddie]

Sounds to me Sony will still be working on getting more titles ready post launch in boost mode while Microsoft will have most ready at launch. It was pretty clear when the PS4 Pro came out how it took them 6 months to release boost mode, I think the same thing is happening here. Standard BC will likely be ready at launch for most PS4 titles.

 

[RivalGT]

I figure the was the case, since that's what Cerney said. PS blog made a mess of it, guess he too did not understand Cerney... It's clear that the GDC style conference should have stayed private, since most of this stuff goes over our heads, when really it shouldn't, but here we are.

 

[Deleted member 3017]

Sounds like whichever console you decide to purchase, you'll be enjoying plenty of games from the previous generation. And in the case of Xbox, even games from generations before. Happy that BC is a priority going into next gen.

 

[Samanosuke Akechi]

Wonder what changed Sony's mind about BC? I remember Jim saying something like who would want to play old games or something a few years back.

 

[Cornbread78]

I'm upset

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You grab the pitchforks, I'll bring the torches!

 

[E.T.]

PS5 can play all PS5 titles
PS5 can play over 4000 PS4 titles
PS5 can play around 100 of the top PS4 titles in boost mode, which give higher perfomance and better resolution textures.
Sony plans to increase that 100 figure over time.

Is this a correct summary?

 

[Mahonay]

Welp there you ago. Maybe everyone can take a chill pill now.

 

[orochi91]

Wonder what changed Sony's mind about BC? I remember Jim saying something like who would want to play old games or something a few years back.

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I always assumed he was talking about PS1-3.

They can't afford to fuck around with PS4 BC, given how much people invested in digital purchases via PSN this gen.

 

[poklane]

Wonder what changed Sony's mind about BC? I remember Jim saying something like who would want to play old games or something a few years back.

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Only reason he probably said that is because you tend to not talk well about features your latest device doesn't support, it would have been really strange for him to say that Backwards Compatibility is a great thing when the PS4 doesn't support it beyond a few dozen PS2 games.
And why Sony does it now? Bigger share of people buying their games digital, increase in GaaS games and because with Microsoft doing it they don't have much choice, it would be beyond awful for them if the XSX launches with thousands of games from previous generations while the PS5 launches with nothing but a few dozen PS5 games, most of which are just PS4 ports. Also another reason to have Backwards Compatibility: PlayStation Now. The bigger the Backwards Compatibility list is the more of those games can be added to PlayStation Now while supporting downloading on PS5.

 

[Pwnz]

Expected. Same architecture.

 

[liquidmetal14]

You grab the pitchforks, I'll bring the torches!

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[Hoo-doo]

This board sometimes, smh.

Both companies promise near complete BC with the previous gen. Period. Why can't people just be happy instead of spreading FUD and nitpicking quotes to put the competition down.

 

[Azaan60]

PS5 can play all PS5 titles
PS5 can play over 4000 PS4 titles
PS5 can play around 100 of the top PS4 titles in boost mode, which give higher perfomance and better resolution textures.
Sony plans to increase that 100 figure over time.

Is this a correct summary?

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That's what's causing the confusion.

Will all 4000 be playable at launch with 100 getting boost mode enhancements?

Or will only 100 be available at launch with the other 3900 coming later.

They've said the majority of PS4 games will be playable on PS5. Great, that's fantastic. But at launch or not lol.

Hopefully they go into more detail soon.

 

[Hey Please]

This is what Sony did for the PS3 launch. It only makes sense they'd do it again.

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Of that I was not aware. Appreciate the information. Furthermore, should Sony start a pilot program for their version of "Enhanced BC" then that data can be consolidated into the webpage as well.

Off topic: I am interested to learn your thoughts on the PS5 specs revealed thus far. If you have already expressed it elsewhere before, could you kindly pm me a link? Thank you.

 

[MatrixMan.exe]

The last two weeks has told me that console wars for this generation are going to be next level. All this arguing, and we still don't even know about the fucking games. God help us all.

 

[LordBaztion]

well, I'm confident MS will have all their BC program ready by launch or near launch and continue to add more 360 and OG xbox games soon.

 

[thecaseace]

Ultimately I think Microsoft are ahead here and Sony are playing catch up

It won't matter at all though I think within a year of launch both BC programs would be at parity.

 

[Aadiboy]

I wonder what this means for remasters of current gen games. I have to imagine devs will still want to release next gen remastered versions of popular games, even if they are already backwards compatible. There's no way Square won't release FFVIIR again on PS5, for example.

 

[Sahand]

That's what's causing the confusion.

Will all 4000 be playable at launch with 100 getting boost mode enhancements?

Or will only 100 be available at launch with the other 3900 coming later.

They've said the majority of PS4 games will be playable on PS5. Great, that's fantastic. But at launch or not lol.

Hopefully they go into more detail soon.

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This is correct.

 

[salromano]

PS5 can play all PS5 titles
PS5 can play over 4000 PS4 titles
PS5 can play around 100 of the top PS4 titles in boost mode, which give higher perfomance and better resolution textures.
Sony plans to increase that 100 figure over time.

Is this a correct summary?

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• PS5 plays all PS5 titles.
• Majority of PS4 games will be playable on PS5.
• PS4 games that run on PS5 will run at boosted frequency (higher / more stable frame rates, potentially higher resolutions).
• Cerny gave an example of their backward compatibility testing, saying that out of the top 100 PS4 games, most of them ran well at these boosted frequencies.
• Hundreds of PS4 titles have been tested on PS5, and thousands more are being tested.

tl;dr - Majority of PS4 games will be playable on PS5, some might just need adjustments.

Eh I do kinda want to know if the publisher/developer has to approve it or not. BC on Xbox One needed the publisher/developer to sign off on it, it's not clear if that applies here too. I wanna know about delisted games and games from defunct companies etc.

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Backward compatibility on Xbox One needed publisher confirmation because it involves taking the original game files and repackaging it into an Xbox One executable. That's why discs are just validation and the actual game is downloaded.

This is correct.

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This is incorrect.

 

[Sahand]

• PS5 plays all PS5 titles.
• Majority of PS4 games will be playable on PS5.
• PS4 games that run on PS5 will run at boosted frequency (higher / more stable frame rates, potentially higher resolutions).
• Cerny gave an example of their backward compatibility testing, saying that out of the top 100 PS4 games, most of them ran well at these boosted frequencies.
• Hundreds of PS4 titles have been tested on PS5, and thousands more are being tested.

tl;dr - Majority of PS4 games will be playable on PS5, some might just need adjustments.



Backward compatibility on Xbox One needed publisher confirmation because it involves taking the original game files and repackaging it into an Xbox One executable. That's why discs are just validation and the actual game is downloaded.



This is incorrect.

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PS5 will support over 100 titles at launch. Nope?

 

[Liabe Brave]

PS5 can play all PS5 titles
PS5 can play over 4000 PS4 titles
PS5 can play around 100 of the top PS4 titles in boost mode, which give higher perfomance and better resolution textures.
Sony plans to increase that 100 figure over time.

Is this a correct summary?

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No. Corrections as I understand them:
PS5 can play "the overwhelming majority" of over 4000 PS4 titles
PS5 should play any BC title in boost mode, but thousands remain to test...
...and boost will give better framerate and render resolution, up to the maximum the game already allowed
The figure should increase over time, but some games may require original developer input

Of that I was not aware. Appreciate the information. Furthermore, should Sony start a pilot program for their version of "Enhanced BC" then that data can be consolidated into the webpage as well.

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Depends what you mean by "enhanced". If that's referring to games that have been patched to take better advantage of the hardware, then definitely there should be an online list maintained. Microsoft does this, but Sony's version is much less detailed and complete.

If you mean the benefits brought to unpatched games when run on the new hardware, I don't think it's reasonable to expect this. Neither platform holder does this right now, and the sheer amount of testing, maintenance, etc. necessary is clearly why.

Off topic: I am interested to learn your thoughts on the PS5 specs revealed thus far. If you have already expressed it elsewhere before, could you kindly pm me a link? Thank you.

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I've put bits and pieces in a couple posts, but no summary. Here's a quick one, to not derail: XSX is more powerful than PS5, and that will be detectable in how games run and look. But both PS5's raw performance and its very precise hardware tweaks mean the gap will be small. Plus the overall higher res and more post-processed image of modern games will make the visible differences even less obvious than that. The rendering discrepancy will be there, but sometimes only trained viewers or close examination of still images will make it clear.

 

[salromano]

PS5 will support over 100 titles at launch. Nope?

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There's nothing to suggest only 100 titles will be playable at launch, especially after the clarification.

The top 100 statement was an example. "We tested the top 100 games, and while the majority worked fine, a few had issues, so there may be some titles within the overall PS4 library that need tweaking to run properly. We're currently testing PS4's library to find out which games have issues."

 

[E.T.]

• PS5 plays all PS5 titles.
• Majority of PS4 games will be playable on PS5.
• PS4 games that run on PS5 will run at boosted frequency (higher / more stable frame rates, potentially higher resolutions).
• Cerny gave an example of their backward compatibility testing, saying that out of the top 100 PS4 games, most of them ran well at these boosted frequencies.
• Hundreds of PS4 titles have been tested on PS5, and thousands more are being tested.

tl;dr - Majority of PS4 games will be playable on PS5, some might just need adjustments.



Backward compatibility on Xbox One needed publisher confirmation because it involves taking the original game files and repackaging it into an Xbox One executable. That's why discs are just validation and the actual game is downloaded.



This is incorrect.

Click to shrink...

Thanks.
So I was not too far off :P

 

[LewieP]

Backward compatibility on Xbox One needed publisher confirmation because it involves taking the original game files and repackaging it into an Xbox One executable. That's why discs are just validation and the actual game is downloaded.

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And how does this contrast with the PS5 implementation?

We don't know yet.

 

[salromano]

And how does this contrast with the PS5 implementation?

We don't know yet.

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PS5 naturally runs PS4 titles (see Mark Cerny's quote below). The only games that would need publisher involvement are the minority of titles that have issues and need to be modified to run properly. That much is even said in the blog post update --- "We're currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers."

"The PlayStation 5 GPU is backwards compatible with PlayStation 4. What does that mean? One way you can achieve backwards compatibility is to put the previous console's chip set in the new console, like we did with some PlayStation 3s. But that's of course extremely expensive. A better way is to incorporate any differences in the previous console's logic into the new console's custom chips. Meaning that, even as the technology evolves, the logic and feature set that PlayStation 4 and PlayStation 4 Pro titles rely on is still available in backwards compatibility modes. One advantage of this strategy is that, once backwards compatibility is in the console, it's in. It's not as if a cost-down will remove backwards compatibility like it did on PlayStation 3. Achieving this unification of functionality took years of efforts by AMD as any roadmap advancement creates a potential divergence in logic."

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[LewieP]

PS5 naturally runs PS4 titles (see Mark Cerny's quote below). The only games that would need publisher involvement are the minority of titles that have issues and need to be modified to run properly. That much is even said in the blog post update --- "We're currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers."

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You're making a few assumptions. They never said that titles without technical issues don't require publisher approval.

Edit: do you think PT will be supported even if there are no technical issues with it?

 

[Decarb]

Lot of FUD being spread about PS5 on this forum.

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I mean, this is the place where Spiderman puddlegate blew up into a giant thread so what do you expect?

 

[Hey Please]

Depends what you mean by "enhanced". If that's referring to games that have been patched to take better advantage of the hardware, then definitely there should be an online list maintained. Microsoft does this, but Sony's version is much less detailed and complete.

If you mean the benefits brought to unpatched games when run on the new hardware, I don't think it's reasonable to expect this. Neither platform holder does this right now, and the sheer amount of testing, maintenance, etc. necessary is clearly why.

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I mean the former indeed akin the Xbox One X's Heutchy Method.

Tangentially speaking, MS said that they will be looking to upgrade select existing Xbox One games to be up-resolutioned on Series X. However, they did not say anything about resolution multiplier on each axis, albeit they did demo Gears of War Ultimate (1080p native on S and X) or Series X at native 4K. So maybe a 2x2 boost is entirely possible.

I've put bits and pieces in a couple posts, but no summary. Here's a quick one, to not derail: XSX is more powerful than PS5, and that will be detectable in how games run and look. But both PS5's raw performance and its very precise hardware tweaks mean the gap will be small. Plus the overall higher res and more post-processed image of modern games will make the visible differences even less obvious than that. The rendering discrepancy will be there, but sometimes only trained viewers or close examination of still images will make it clear.

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Thank you. While this is a great comparative summation, I was wondering if you had an opinion about the console in vacuum. If not, no worries.
Cheers.

 

[salromano]

You're making a few assumptions. They never said that titles without technical issues don't require publisher approval.

Edit: do you think PT will be supported even if there are no technical issues with it?

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If PS5 naturally runs PS4 games, and said games run without the need for any edits---in other words, I pop in the disc and the game runs---then why would it need publisher approval? Publishers would only need to get involved if it's to tweak problematic titles via patches.

Re: P.T. - Are you really asking if a PS4 title that is no longer accessible on PS4 will be supported on PS5?

Now if it was a question of whether P.T. would theoretically run on PS5, then the answer is yes, because it's a PS4 game and PS5 naturally runs PS4 games. But you know, you'd need to actually be able to get it onto the system to run it / find out if it runs without acting wonky.

 

[LRB1983]

Re: P.T. - Are you really asking if a PS4 title that is no longer accessible on PS4 will be supported on PS5?

Now if it was a question of whether P.T. would theoretically run on PS5, then the answer is yes, because it's a PS4 game and PS5 naturally runs PS4 games. But you know, you'd need to actually be able to get it onto the system to run it / find out if it runs without acting wonky.

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delisted games is a great question. Would be interesting to know if ps4 purchased list carries to ps5 and if you can download purchased ps4 games that are delisted like TMNT turtles in manhattan,Transformers devastation, some marvel or nickelodeon games, for example...
Some 360 games that aren't available anymore can be played and downloaded on XBX if you purchased them...

 

[salromano]

delisted games is a great question. Would be interesting to know if ps4 purchased list carries to ps5 and if you can download purchased ps4 games that are delisted like TMNT turtles in manhattan or Transformers devastation for example...

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I could be wrong, but isn't P.T. kind of in its own territory? As in, it's delisted, but you can't download it even if you owned it?

 

[Scherzo]

So seems like it's basically the same for both, where the odd game might not work.

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Well there's also the fact that XSX will have a back catalog of 360 and to lesser extent OG Xbox games that can be run. Sony doesn't have anything comparable beyond 'pay to play' emulated versions of PS2 titles.

 

[LRB1983]

I could be wrong, but isn't P.T. kind of in its own territory? As in, it's delisted, but you can't download it even if you owned it?

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That's right, but that said few months ago could still be downloaded from your ps4's download list using the bridge connection trick.

 

[Johnson]

"Boost Mode" on PS5 is not a thing, is it? Mark Cerny mentioned the boosted frequencies of the PS5 compared to PS4 as the reason each game will need to be tested one by one. As I understand it, every PS4 game has the potential to run better simply because it is running on the PS5, but there is no "Boost Mode".

 

[eyeball_kid]

Great. Now do this for PS1-PS3 games as well.

 

[DSN2K]

Sounds like Neither are gonna have a problem. win-win.

 

[Blue Skies]

PS5 can play around 100 of the top PS4 titles in boost mode, which give higher perfomance and better resolution textures.
Sony plans to increase that 100 figure over time.

Is this a correct summary?

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Where do you get that from

 

[E.T.]

Great. Now do this for PS1-PS3 games as well.

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PS3 will surely be supported through PSnow, what I am more curious about is how or if they intend to deliver PS1 and PS2 classics again.

 

[jroc74]

PS5 naturally runs PS4 titles (see Mark Cerny's quote below). The only games that would need publisher involvement are the minority of titles that have issues and need to be modified to run properly. That much is even said in the blog post update --- "We're currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers."

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The psblog should have added this quote, article writers should have actually read this part.

I'm just shocked those that saw the GDC stream head this as something different. And how the psblog posted what they did.

One of the slides in the BC part made it crystal clear what was being said.

 

[Frost1800]

My friends are trying to convince me that MS is just saying this to be sarcastic of Sony's clarification because Sony is just doing damage control with false advertising. It seems the initial opinion is hard to change, and the damage is done. How should I convince my friends otherwise? Is it too late to clarify things now?

 

[Fisty]

That's right, but that said few months ago could still be downloaded from your ps4's download list using the bridge connection trick.

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I would assume that PS5 would rely on the PS4's licensing system for PS4 games, so if it is possible (should be) to just plug in a PS4 external HDD and play on PS5 it should work. If you downloaded PT you will still have the license in your library, so it should still work even if you can't officially download it. Obviously this isnt a given, but it would be kinda weird if it didn't work. Normal delisted games would probably be fine since you can still see them in your normal library as well, with the option to download.

 

[orochi91]

My friends are trying to convince me that MS is just saying this to be sarcastic of Sony's clarification because Sony is just doing damage control with false advertising. It seems the initial opinion is hard to change, and the damage is done. How should I convince my friends otherwise? Is it too late to clarify things now?

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Your friends need to realize that peddling conspiracy theories is childish.

Both companies have put out official statements, and we'll know in the coming months the scope of Sony's BC implementation.

 

[Ghost Slayer]

My friends are trying to convince me that MS is just saying this to be sarcastic of Sony's clarification because Sony is just doing damage control with false advertising. It seems the initial opinion is hard to change, and the damage is done. How should I convince my friends otherwise? Is it too late to clarify things now?

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Let him go. Its too late

 

[BasilZero]

Good.

 

[Liabe Brave]

"Boost Mode" on PS5 is not a thing, is it? Mark Cerny mentioned the boosted frequencies of the PS5 compared to PS4 as the reason each game will need to be tested one by one. As I understand it, every PS4 game has the potential to run better simply because it is running on the PS5, but there is no "Boost Mode".

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We don't know for sure. Mr. Cerny didn't use the words "Boost Mode", but the slide he used labeled "Backwards Compatibility" showed a list with PS5 Native, PS4 Pro Legacy, and PS4 Legacy entries. This could potentially be two modes: native clocks for Boost Mode, and two behind-the-scenes legacy clock and CU count setups when Boost Mode is turned off (two legacy modes because some games are patched for Pro and some aren't).

Another piece of possible evidence would be the GitHub leak for last year. It explicitly showed BC tests where the Oberon chip was using 18CU at 800MHz, 36CU at 911MHz, and 36CU at 2.0GHz. If they were testing low-power modes, presumably they intend to use them. But other things have changed since then, so maybe this did too.

 

[Mahonay]

My friends are trying to convince me that MS is just saying this to be sarcastic of Sony's clarification because Sony is just doing damage control with false advertising. It seems the initial opinion is hard to change, and the damage is done. How should I convince my friends otherwise? Is it too late to clarify things now?

Click to shrink...

 

[Magnus]

LOL it was obvious since the beginning.
Sony created confusion on their own the other day.
Microsoft used the term 'every game' on twitter in the PR sense of ''vast majority'' of them.
Both are still in the testing phase, both are aiming for full BC.

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Yup!
The number of people who kept parroting that Xbox was going to have every single title working perfectly on day one was wild. I kept asking, how are they managing this when Sony is pointing out how difficult and time-consuming a challenge it is, and here after some questioning, it's been revealed that they're roughly in the same boat with Xbox a bit ahead. Ultimately, they're both going to have thousands of titles available at launch which will undoubtedly include all the most popular ones.

 

[Eeyore]

Wonder what changed Sony's mind about BC? I remember Jim saying something like who would want to play old games or something a few years back.

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He was talking about Gran Turismo.

 

[Deleted member 35631]

That's a belief not stating a fact. They could very easily only have a few hundred or less validated at launch. Fact is, we only know what they've said, and right now it's that they are in the hundreds, not thousands.

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Oh god. This post is like in a different reality. Where you come from, have people discovered fire yet?