I could definitely be wrong, but isn't Sampler Feedback Streaming something you do with the Sampler Feedback feature.RDNA2 has Sample Feedback. Only Xbox has Sample Feedback Streaming - it's a custom addition on the next gen Xboxs.
I get what you're saying. In this case it's best to wait for some additional info before making definitive statements.Just depends on if Sony has custom tech to replace the missing features or not. If they do (which some people claim but Sony hasn't commented on) then likely it's wash and Microsoft is just promoting their partnership like every company ever does. If Sony does not then it just means it's easier to extract performance from the Series X which will help the gpu even more and help the ssd in trying to catch up. The real answer of course is probably somewhere in the middle of both options and players will be happy regardless of which console they buy. This type of info is for the digital foundry's of the world not for people who just want Halo or Spider-Man.
I saw some people claiming that not based on the SOC, honestly I have no idea.If they say full feature set, does that include infinity cache?
If this is the case I think this would be the end between sony and AMD.Sounds like AMD's DLSS-alternative (which has been referred to as Super Resolution) will be Xbox and PC exclusive. If true, this would create a MASSIVE performance gap between XSX and PS5. Hard to believe Sony would give away all this performance when they could see the huge gains provided by DLSS.
I can wait for the DF vid on the new RDNA tech.I saw some people claiming that not based on the SOC, honestly I have no idea.
I read that a lot in this thread, is there any source for this? Phil Spencer had the console in December last year, is this considered late?It's interesting that Sony has ps5 devkits out to devs a lot earlier than Microsoft did, to the point that initial game demos were further along on ps5. Could it be that they had access to silicon earlier, and ms waited?
My hunch here on this is that XSX and XSS have a more complete programmable Front end with mesh shaders (vs. the older primitive shader type), the Hardware VRS, and the technical hw required for the next Version of tiled resources, which is called Sampler Feedback. And I think, without saying positviely for certain, that that is why MS was so keen to make those features so prominent in their pre-release Material in the Xbox Series X. It was their hardware Feature advantage, they knew it, so they advertised it - just like how they advertised stable clocks as a thing even before Sony described the dynamic clocks to the public.
Will these advantages of a complete RDNA2 vs the PS5 GPU half way point matter? Probably.
By a lot? Meh. Let us wait for the games. And for the games over time. I think the raw flop and bandwidth will matter the most at first though as the other Features, should they prove limited to just XSX and XSS, require dedicated peogramming time to take advantage of. And multiplatform games do not always spend the resources to do that even. Unlike a faster GPU, which is just faster.
My hunch here on this is that XSX and XSS have a more complete programmable Front end with mesh shaders (vs. the older primitive shader type), the Hardware VRS, and the technical hw required for the next Version of tiled resources, which is called Sampler Feedback. And I think, without saying positviely for certain, that that is why MS was so keen to make those features so prominent in their pre-release Material in the Xbox Series X. It was their hardware Feature advantage, they knew it, so they advertised it - just like how they advertised stable clocks as a thing even before Sony described the dynamic clocks to the public.
Will these advantages of a complete RDNA2 vs the PS5 GPU half way point matter? Probably.
By a lot? Meh. Let us wait for the games. And for the games over time. I think the raw flop and bandwidth will matter the most at first though as the other Features, should they prove limited to just XSX and XSS, require dedicated peogramming time to take advantage of. And multiplatform games do not always spend the resources to do that even. Unlike a faster GPU, which is just faster.
MS
excited to see the tech in use on XSX"In our quest to put gamers and developers first we chose to wait for the most advanced technology from our partners at AMD before finalizing our architecture."
bringing it home doesn't necessarily mean he had the final unit. we have Jason Schreier and others who claimed MS was behind Sony in getting dev kits out and iirc DF made similar claims and now we probably know why.I read that a lot in this thread, is there any source for this? Phil Spencer had the console in December last year, is this considered late?
Probably something like this. Otherwise, why not highlight the features missing on PS5?
Truth. Both are great consoles, can't wait for launch day!
He reiterated it but with spin from Sony because he got in trouble, saying that microarchitecture generations aren't real and that Sony added to it, but then said it's still missing a feature from RDNA2. He didn't specify which one though.He also backtracked on those comments saying people misunderstood him
My hunch here on this is that XSX and XSS have a more complete programmable Front end with mesh shaders (vs. the older primitive shader type), the Hardware VRS, and the technical hw required for the next Version of tiled resources, which is called Sampler Feedback. And I think, without saying positviely for certain, that that is why MS was so keen to make those features so prominent in their pre-release Material in the Xbox Series X. It was their hardware Feature advantage, they knew it, so they advertised it - just like how they advertised stable clocks as a thing even before Sony described the dynamic clocks to the public.
Will these advantages of a complete RDNA2 vs the PS5 GPU half way point matter? Probably.
By a lot? Meh. Let us wait for the games. And for the games over time. I think the raw flop and bandwidth will matter the most at first though as the other Features, should they prove limited to just XSX and XSS, require dedicated peogramming time to take advantage of. And multiplatform games do not always spend the resources to do that even. Unlike a faster GPU, which is just faster.
Far superior? Wow. I certainly disagree, and I think you're going to be disappointed if you believe this is going to bear out in games.
I don't think it's bravado. I think MS has a very clear vision. They know what they want, it's all about gamepass. Making it so that their games can easily be developed for both their consoles and the PC platform will ensure that gamepass is streamlined and has the same stuff on offer regardless of where you are planning to use gamepass.
I think it's going to be very succesful.
Guys we need to be focusing on the hardware component of Direct ML super resolution feature. Is that something similar to DLSS?
During cutscenes then?
Are you referring to technologies like VRS?
I see. Can you go into more detail about what makes the GPU far better in Series X?
I do too. I read that higher CU counts will perform better in software with RT.
As other people explained in the thread, it might not be necessary if Sony has its own solution.
So this isn't a massive win for team xbox?
Out of curiosity why would developers not take advantage of these features when they more than likely will take advantage on the PC side? This doesn't seem like something developers would just skip out on unless it is a game that was in development before they could account for said features.The VRS hw for example can save a lot of GPU resources and enable higher framerates by varying the quality of shading within different parts of a scene. If Sony doesn't have a similar hw accelerated solution, devs that take advantage of this will be able to offer better performance(fps) in games. The other thing is SFS. If Sony doesn't have a similar hw solution, the GPU will be able to render higher quality scenes while saving on RAM despite not having as much I/O bandwidth for larger complex scenes like Sony's SSD provides.
IIRC correctly the other thing is mesh shaders vs primitive shaders, for that we have to wait and see whether Sony's geometry engine which uses primitive shaders can match up with the more advanced mesh shaders. This is all without considering the higher TFLOPs, higher number of RT cores and most importantly higher memory bandwidth available for the XSX GPU.
But again, all this means nothing if devs don't fully take advantage of these features.
Slightly OT and maybe a dumb question but is it correct that DX12 is more difficult to program for because it's new but is needed to really fully utilize Series X?
Not really surprising since they are using some pieces that are part of RDNA 3.
I think its just PR talk, being full RDNA2 isn't a bad or good thing, xbox just happens to be the only console with the full rdna 2 architecture. Both nextgen system use a custom rdna 2 architecture , MS just happen to use the full feature set of RDNA 2 set by AMD. Without knowing whats custom about Sony's version the speculation just becomes endless.Well that's certainly an interesting tweet. Can't wait to see the first DF face-offs. Something has to be noticeable or this is just a bold PR stunt.
I really need to stop reading reddit.I mean no. That's like saying the C#8 or C++ 20 is harder to program for than the previous iterations. It's just more features to use, but it's not "harder " at least not in the traditional way people would think.
Where did you read that?Not really surprising since they are using some pieces that are part of RDNA 3.
Reddit is great for cat videos and random fact of the day. Not much more than that lol
is this a meme or something did I miss a memeNot really surprising since they are using some pieces that are part of RDNA 3.
Not really surprising since they are using some pieces that are part of RDNA 3.
What defines "full" RDNA2? Both PC and Xbox share a common graphics API in DirectX 12U.
Is "full" to mean the same feature-set as PC discrete GPUs?
Is the PC implementation of RDNA2 considered canon that the consoles can align with or deviate from?
Is this blog post essentially saying Windows and Xbox use DirectX 12U, while playing up to a some uncertainty that has been doing the rounds for months?
Sony obviously won't be using DirectX, but their own GNM API, along with any RDNA2 features specific to them that don't feature in the PC/Xbox space, like their Coherency Engines and GPU cache scrubbers.
Does that mean PC isn't using the "full" Sony RDNA2 feature-set?
If (hypothetically speaking as I'm hugely skeptical of the rumour) PS5 has something like the Infinity Cache implemented on PC, where as Xbox does not, what does that mean? Infinity Cache isn't a feature exposed to any API, so does it get counted as contributing to the "full" moniker?
Microsoft marketing department are clearly aware of the various doubts and uncertainties floating around and are playing into them, regardless of misinformed or pointless the argument is.
He is using rumors as facts.
Wait and see. We just don't know how the consoles will stack up quite yet. I suspect if there are any differences coming from RDNA2 that they will take a little while to manifest as the games coming out in the next six months probably didn't have devs thinking about the tech.
Yes they would've, as Nvidia isn't in the affordable APU business.I wonder if Sony and Microsoft would have defaulted to AMD for its console if they knew DLSS was as much of a game changer as it is? Will be interesting to see what AMD is able to cook up.
Obviously they'll take advantage of these features. My question is to what extent and how easy are they to implement. I'm sure VRS for example requires some extra optimization to ensure there isn't a single scene where the wrong object gets lower quality shading. Its an amazing feature nevertheless and is probably going to be the biggest advantage if Sony doesn't have something similar.Out of curiosity why would developers not take advantage of these features when they more than likely will take advantage on the PC side? This doesn't seem like something developers would just skip out on unless it is a game that was in development before they could account for said features.
3? Could've sworn there were pieces from RDNA5, to better match the PS5's design philosophy.Not really surprising since they are using some pieces that are part of RDNA 3.
Didn't think a DLSS equivalent was possible for next gen consoles but this makes it exciting.yes, Microsoft showcased DirectML "Super resolution" back in 2018, using Forza Horizon 3 as a demo and a nvidia card. They rendered it at 1080p and then upscaled with DirectML to 4k, comparing to standard bilinear upscaling. You can watch it here, demo starts at 16:00.
Massive? No. It's just features that will provide benefits for optimizations across devices that utilize DirectX. The same way as PS5 custom GPU features will provide benefits for games in PS5. The difference here is that Sony decided to do its own software solutions, which can be better, worse, or equal.
In an interview with Eurogamer Xbox stated there is about 76MB of on die memory so I highly doubt there is any infinity cache nor any need for it. The GPU isn't bandwidth starved.If they say full feature set, does that include infinity cache?
Not really surprising since they are using some pieces that are part of RDNA 3.
Timing and cost. AMD doesn't just give you the features and Sony has a timeline they have to worry about.So why would Sony just choose not to implement some of these features into their gpu? It's not like they were a secret, all of this stuff has been around a while and common knowledge except for the infinity cache.
People keep saying this but do we really think Sony and Microsoft won't bring out new models half way through the gen anyway?Good news for xbox fans. I think this tech will become more important as the generation goes on.
So why would Sony just choose not to implement some of these features into their gpu? It's not like they were a secret, all of this stuff has been around a while and common knowledge except for the infinity cache.